Why does the Onkyo weigh more?

[GMichael]

Is it because they have beefier amps and power supplies? If so, this is important info.
I am looking to pick up a new receiver in the $1k range. The three in the front running are as follows:
The Onkyo TX-NR809 for $1099 found here http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR809&class=Receiver&p=i

The Yamaha RX-A1010 for $1099.95 found here http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a1010_black_u/?mode=model

And the Denon AVR-3312CI for $1099.99 found here http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=3d9614d1-8000-4106-ab91-8192242cab83&SubId=40b5820d-83c2-4e93-9909-60aae60e0bdd&ProductId=333b93c6-1dd0-4176-a06c-d2224674832a


They all have a ton of new features that I mostly don’t give a rats ars about. But they do have what I am looking for the most. I want to have at least 5+ HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs with 3D capability. I want to be able to watch sports on my projector screen while playing video games on my 40” LCD at the same time, or vise versa. Does anyone have one of these models are maybe last year’s model who could confirm this feature for me?
The second most important point to me is reliability. I have always thought of these three manufacturers as being at the top of that issue. I know that Pioneer and a few others are good too, but these three top my list. Onky had some issues a few years back with some loud clicking or popping while changing sources. Has this been worked out with later models? If so, the Onkyo gets one more step closer to the top.
Number 3 is sound quality. If the extra weight of the Onkyos means more head room or higher current availability, then take another step to the head of the class. Weights of each model are:
Onkyo 40.3 lbs
Denon 26.8 lbs
Yammy 33.3 lbs (I currently have a Yammy RX-V2500 and love it, but I have a hard time thinking that going from a 38 lbs unit to a 33.3 lbs unit is an upgrade)
One of the many features available (that I do care about) is the ability to control two subs with the remote. The Yammy says yes, but I couldn’t find this info on the other 2 (or maybe I just missed it). Anyone know?

Who can help me with my questions?
1) Why does the Onkyo weigh more?
2) Has Onkyo worked out their clicking issue?
3) Can the Onkyo also control the 2 subs by remote? (can you tell which way I’m leaning?)

Don't we have an AVR section?

[blackraven]

It could be beefier power supplies and transformers along with heat sinks.

The Onkyo at least on paper, looks beefier.

[Hyfi]

I just recently got an Integra 30.3 and was told that Onkyo in general uses beefier Power Supplies.

Funny thing tho, the HK it was replacing weighs twice as much.

[pixelthis]

BEEFY for a receiver. I am on my second Integra, with over six years of trouble free service.
Just remember, they are called AMPlifiers, not WATTifliers,
which is why output is measured in watts. THE power supply on my receiver puts out 37 amps or so, spd ov er five channels(three
now that my fronts have their own amp).
MOST receiver designers cross fingers and pray that you never need
the 125wpc across every channel at once , but you will
never get more power than the amp output of your power supply.
AS FOR being so addicted you need a 40" and a projector
at the same time, maybe zone two or something will help.
Anyway, I am an ONKYO and INTEGRA fanboy, especially
INTEGRA, which makes a great el cheapo pre pro when you're ready, complete with 12v triggers, etc.:1:

[N. Abstentia]

. I want to have at least 5+ HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs with 3D capability. I want to be able to watch sports on my projector screen while playing video games on my 40” LCD at the same time, or vise versa.

You might want to research that. None of the units I looked at worked like this, due to the HCPC or whatever copy protection built into HDMI. You could only show the same source on both outputs.

But I actually went with the Yamaha myself, for a number of reasons. More HDMI inputs and outputs than the other guys mainly, but Onkyo quit putting 12v triggers on their stuff, and Denon quit putting multi channel analog inputs on theirs, so those two were out of the running for me right away. Most people probably don't care about that stuff.

[GMichael]

You might want to research that. None of the units I looked at worked like this, due to the HCPC or whatever copy protection built into HDMI. You could only show the same source on both outputs.

But I actually went with the Yamaha myself, for a number of reasons. More HDMI inputs and outputs than the other guys mainly, but Onkyo quit putting 12v triggers on their stuff, and Denon quit putting multi channel analog inputs on theirs, so those two were out of the running for me right away. Most people probably don't care about that stuff.

You are right that I can not watch two different sources through the HDMI's. But I can send HD through component cables as zone 2.

After a bit more research it's looking like Onkyo and Denon are both having more QC issues than I like to see. Integras are nice, but harder to find deals on. It's looking like it will end up being another Yamaha for me. It will depend on which model I can get the best deal on. Any of the following would work for me.
RX-A1010
RX-A2000
RX-A2010
RX-A3000
RX-A3010

[N. Abstentia]

You are right that I can not watch two different sources through the HDMI's. But I can send HD through component cables as zone 2.



Now that you mention it, that's what I do too! I just haven't done it much and I forgot about it :)

I have no complaints about my Yamaha A-1000. Great unit, and a sound quality improvement over my Outlaw 990. I don't use the internal amps, though.

[GMichael]

I think my dreams have come true! The Rx-A3000 is on sale for $600 off. No freight. No Tax. And from an authorized dealer.
YAMAHA RX-A3000 7.2-Channel AVENTAGE Network A/V Receiver App for iPhone or iPod Touch $1200 - Slickdeals.net (http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3181802)

:thumbsup:

We need a smiley face that dances!

[RGA]

GM

All of the power supplies stink in all of these receivers. It would make far more sense to buy a receiver with the features you will actually require that has pre-outs. SS power amps can be purchased for dirt cheap. Rotel makes several inexpensive power amps as low as $400 that will destroy any $3000 receiver in this regard. Add the power amp to the preaout of the receiver and now you have something - and you likely saved lots of cash. Yamaha has inexpensive feature loaded receivers with pre-outs.

So yes the power amp section may be beefier in a $1100 receiver over a competitor but if you buy a $500 receiver with preouts and an external power amp for $400 you saved money and didn't waste extra cash on "very marginally better" power supplies. And if you buy power amps on the used market you will be in FAR better shape. That $400 power amp used can be had for $200. Buy 3 of them you pay $600 and now you have a close to "separates" home theater rig. $600 for a good Ymaha RXV 5700 or whatever the number is and $600 for three power amplifiers and you're kicking some serious ass.

If space is the big concern of course the above doesn't matter - but ONLY if space is the concern - there is no reason to buy these feature boxes - they're all seriously compromised - but the ones that give you the preouts are nice - at least you have an upgrade path.

As for build quality - it won't be much of a concern as all the receivers will be out of date pretty much by the end of the warranty anyway.

[GMichael]

GM

All of the power supplies stink in all of these receivers. It would make far more sense to buy a receiver with the features you will actually require that has pre-outs. SS power amps can be purchased for dirt cheap. Rotel makes several inexpensive power amps as low as $400 that will destroy any $3000 receiver in this regard. Add the power amp to the preaout of the receiver and now you have something - and you likely saved lots of cash. Yamaha has inexpensive feature loaded receivers with pre-outs.

So yes the power amp section may be beefier in a $1100 receiver over a competitor but if you buy a $500 receiver with preouts and an external power amp for $400 you saved money and didn't waste extra cash on "very marginally better" power supplies. And if you buy power amps on the used market you will be in FAR better shape. That $400 power amp used can be had for $200. Buy 3 of them you pay $600 and now you have a close to "separates" home theater rig. $600 for a good Ymaha RXV 5700 or whatever the number is and $600 for three power amplifiers and you're kicking some serious ass.

If space is the big concern of course the above doesn't matter - but ONLY if space is the concern - there is no reason to buy these feature boxes - they're all seriously compromised - but the ones that give you the preouts are nice - at least you have an upgrade path.

As for build quality - it won't be much of a concern as all the receivers will be out of date pretty much by the end of the warranty anyway.

I debated this in my head for quite awhile. I though of getting a lesser model and adding a cheap amp from Emotiva. I found that the models below the RX-A1010 ($1100 MSPR) were missing a key feature or two. I figured that with this deal (a $1900 AVR for $1200) would be the best of two worlds. It gives me all the features I want at a decent price. Plus the amps will hold me over until I add external amps down the road.
My plan is to be HDMI 1.4 ready when the new 3D projectors come down in price a bit. I'd never be able to get the wifey to agree to a new AVR and a new projector at the same time. This is kind of a preemptive strike.

[Mingus]

GM,

That sounds like a great deal. Do you know how long the promo code is good for.

[GMichael]

GM,

That sounds like a great deal. Do you know how long the promo code is good for.

I don't know, but my guess would be until they run out of stock. They have to make room for the new RX-A3010's.

[RGA]

Forget my suggestion anyway - yamaha has gotten rid of the preouts - dumb move IMO.

[GMichael]

Forget my suggestion anyway - yamaha has gotten rid of the preouts - dumb move IMO.

Many AVR manufacturers are doing the same with their <$1k models. It seems to be a trend.

[hifitommy]

about the weight, i have been recommending HK equipment for that reason. for one thing, they are PRETTY but that isnt the main thing of course. HK has always been a great value and heavier for a given output than most other brands.

i always look at the weight of a component as one consideration of quality.