Bush's Speech

[Rikki]

So what did you guys think of Bush's speech ? Seems like he's basing the upcoming election on people thinking he's doing the right thing in Iraq.

[bturk667]

I have to say that I really felt bad for him. To see a President have to struggle so much to come up with words to answer questions that he knew were coming before hand.

He did, however, do a nice job of not answering some questions.

To think that this is the man that we put forth in front of other world leaders. Man, now I know why they dislike us and him so much! Do not get me wrong. I would love to sit down and have a beer with him. I know he dosen't drink, maybe he could have a near beer? But this man as a President; leading the greatest country on earth? Makes me think long and hard.

I have to use one quote. "We are an open country who like openness." Well then, that about sums us up.
I could go on, but why?

[mtrycraft]

I have to say that I really felt bad for him. To see a President have to struggle so much to come up with words to answer questions that he knew were coming before hand.

He did, however, do a nice job of not answering some questions.

To think that this is the man that we put forth in front of other world leaders. Man, now I know why they dislike us and him so much! Do not get me wrong. I would love to sit down and have a beer with him. I know he dosen't drink, maybe he could have a near beer? But this man as a President; leading the greatest country on earth? Makes me think long and hard.

I have to use one quote. "We are an open country who like openness." Well then, that about sums us up.
I could go on, but why?

Yes, that is sad to be on a world stage and perform so poorly. Maybe he should have sent one of his handlers.

[dennis]

It's sad....after watching that speech...I now know why we are in so much trouble as a country.....when you have an individual with this kind of intelligence running the greatest nation on earth...what else can you expect....thank GOD that his numbers are falling in the polls.....just imagine him being elected for four more years...

[Justlisten2]

So what did you guys think of Bush's speech ? Seems like he's basing the upcoming election on people thinking he's doing the right thing in Iraq.


He even said come November we'll see who the American public will be suited to carry out the war on terrorism. So in his mind that's the only election issue. Man it would sure suck to be stuck with another four years of Middle East distractions while big business cleans out our pockets. :(

[PPG]

Some random thoughts: Bush came across as his usual arrogant, smug self last night. Yeah, Iraq is a center for terrorism, NOW it is Mr.Bush since we went in, the terrorists have come out like wasps from a nest someone popped with a stick. If this doesn't turn into a new Vietnam, well it'll be "Vietnam Lite", if it isn't already. I sure hope Americans got the message last night and vote for a unamimous change in November.

[Woochifer]

GW Bush has had only 12 press conferences thus far, which is much fewer than for any president in recent memory. His performance last night just shows why he avoids open ended forums where his answers aren't available on a teleprompter (or fed to him by Cheney). He tried to stick to the script, but even those whiffleballs getting lobbed at him by the press corps got him wound up and fumbling around for an answer. The hubris that he demonstrated with his repeated "stay the course" rhetoric just gets sadder as events on all fronts unfold. The myopia and hypocrisy of his statements presume that his audience is ignorant (e.g. his statement about the Department of Homeland Security and how that might have helped pre-9/11, yet he opposed creating that department in the first place; and his at length doting about how he grieves over fallen soldiers, yet he has not attended a single soldier's funeral and has banned all access to Dover AFB where the bodies of the fallen are initially taken). He still refuses to acknowledge that he could've done anything differently, or even admit that he's made a mistake at all during his presidency.

EXAMPLE:
"QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President.

In the last campaign, you were asked a question about the biggest mistake you'd made in your life, and you used to like to joke that it was trading Sammy Sosa.

You've looked back before 9-11 for what mistakes might have been made. After 9-11, what would your biggest mistake be, would you say, and what lessons have learned from it?

BUSH: I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time so I could plan for it.

John, I'm sure historians will look back and say, gosh, he could've done it better this way or that way. You know, I just -- I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all the pressure of trying to come up with answer, but it hadn't yet..."

Even diehard neocon supporters like William Kristol weren't impressed with his performance at last night's press conference:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-fg-assess14apr14,1,5150057.story?coll=la-home-headlines

""I was depressed," said conservative strategist William Kristol, one of the war's most vocal proponents. "I am obviously a supporter of the war, so I don't need to be convinced. But among people who were doubtful or worried, I don't think he made arguments that would convince them. He didn't explain how we are going to win there.""

More quotes from same article:

"Bush pledged to stick with his June 30 deadline for empowering an interim Iraqi government to assert more control over the country.

Yet although Bush was clear about his aspirations for Iraq, he at times minimized his role in their realization. He strongly suggested that it had become less the responsibility of American officials to devise a workable solution.

"That's what Mr. Brahimi is doing," Bush said, referring to Lakhdar Brahimi, the U.N. special envoy in Iraq. "He's figuring out the nature of the entity we will be handing sovereignty over [to]."

Bush offered a similar response when asked whether the United States needed more troops in Iraq to quell the turmoil and violence. Bush deferred that decision to Gen. John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command. Those answers clouded the image of resolve Bush tried to convey.

Kristol, publisher of the Weekly Standard, a leading conservative magazine, said he was struck by Bush's willingness to cede such crucial decisions to Brahimi and Abizaid.

"Those two statements are in my mind a failure of presidential leadership," he said."

[FLZapped]

I have to say that I really felt bad for him. To see a President have to struggle so much to come up with words to answer questions that he knew were coming before hand.


I'm quite sure that he was warned over and over not to give a sound bite to a "gotcha" question that could be usd against him. So, yes, he struggled with how to answer in a way that wouldn't arm his political enemies.

Not all the questions were known ahead of time. Like the "gotcha" question: "Can you think of one mistake you've made?" - Now do you really think he would answer that?

-Bruce

[FLZapped]

Some random thoughts: Bush came across as his usual arrogant, smug self last night. Yeah, Iraq is a center for terrorism, NOW it is Mr.Bush since we went in, the terrorists have come out like wasps from a nest someone popped with a stick. If this doesn't turn into a new Vietnam, well it'll be "Vietnam Lite", if it isn't already. I sure hope Americans got the message last night and vote for a unamimous change in November.


Let me ask you something. What does Kerry have to offer? Has he spelled out his plan? Has he stated how he's going to get the UN and NATO to take this over?

Has he said how he'd get more nations to share the military burden? The ones willing or able to participate, already are.

Has he outlined a plan to take to the UN? No.

Has he outlined his plan for the turnover of power to the Iraqis? No.

You're right, you'll get change alright, you'll get a guy that is a socialist and political opportunist.

The other day he was asked what he would do and he started to answer, stopped and then said he didn't want to admit to a mistake that he hadn't yet made.

Wonderful. That inspires a lot of confidence.

I don't agree with everything Bush has done, but this Democrat will not vote for that commie.

-Bruce

[Rikki]

He even said come November we'll see who the American public will be suited to carry out the war on terrorism. So in his mind that's the only election issue. Man it would sure suck to be stuck with another four years of Middle East distractions while big business cleans out our pockets. :(

I totally agree. The war in Iraq is a big distraction. We still have a poor economy, jobs going overseas, health care/medicare issues, social security problems. The only domestic issue he even seems to have an opinion on is that gays should not get married. I think we're due for a change come November.

[FLZapped]

I totally agree. The war in Iraq is a big distraction. We still have a poor economy,

Really. Why not go live in India or Africa or any one of another countries if you think it's so bad here.


jobs going overseas,

And you think this is something new? Of course the fact that we gain up to 4 jobs to support the overseas job is unimportant, right?



health care/medicare issues,


And the insurance companies have no hand in this? Of course, Medicare isn't another failed socialist entitlement.


social security problems.

Another entitlement program that should have been phased out long ago in favor of incentives to save.

The only plan Kerry has is to raise taxes to butress these poorly managed socialist programs.


I think we're due for a change come November.

And the closer to communism we'll move.

-Bruce

[Justlisten2]

I don't agree with everything Bush has done, but this Democrat will not vote for that commie.

-Bruce


Bruce,
How about a vote for Ralph Nader? I'm a registered Democrat, who thought the two main choices in the 2000 election were pathetic, to put it mildly. I voted for Nader. Some may claim that, just like Perot in '92 and '96, it was a wasted vote. However, I see the stronger showing of third party candidates make a statement of the growing unrest in this country of the current two party political system. Maybe, just maybe, it will help improve the choices in the future. It's better than a no vote, because it shows displeasure with the current system.
Sort of like leaving a $1 tip is a stronger message than leaving no tip at a restaurant. It doesn't say that 'I forgot', it says 'your service sucked'. :mad:

John

[woodman]

Really. Why not go live in India or Africa or any one of another countries if you think it's so bad here.



And you think this is something new? Of course the fact that we gain up to 4 jobs to support the overseas job is unimportant, right?



And the insurance companies have no hand in this? Of course, Medicare isn't another failed socialist entitlement.



Another entitlement program that should have been phased out long ago in favor of incentives to save.

The only plan Kerry has is to raise taxes to butress these poorly managed socialist programs.



And the closer to communism we'll move.

-Bruce

Geeeeeez, la-freakin' weez, Bruce. You and I have been right in sync on these boards for a long time, but here in the political arena I couldn't disagree with you more. This chimpanzee that sits in our Oval Office has been the greatest disaster of a prez that I've ever seen in all of my years on the planet. I've lived under 13 different presidential administrations, and this one has proven to be in a class by itself when it comes to lies, deception, secrecy, bad judgment, and worst of all - a complete and total disregard for the well-being of the citizens. To add insult to injury, Dubya is a complete embarassment every time he appears in public and opens his mouth.

I cannot fathom just where (other than the Republican Propaganda Machine) you've gotten all of these negative opinions about John Kerry. Maybe there are things about him that I'm not aware of, but whatever his faults and/or shortcomings may or may not be, I have no doubt whatsoever that he'll make one helluva lot better president than the a**hole that we have now. I'm looking forward to November when I can vote for Mickey Mouse or Jerry Seinfeld or Barry Bonds or Martin Sheen or Jim Carrey or Dennis Kucinich or Al Sharpton or Jon Stewart or Chris Rock ... anybody will make a better prez than Dubya - the biggest fraud to ever manipulate his way into the presidency!

[dennis]

Hey Bruce....You've got a lot of pent up anger...that's not good for your health....drop that "love it or leave it" CRAP...we've heard that before........Agree with everything Bush says or you're not a good AMERICAN.....BULL****.....we are BETTER AMERICANS because we don't agree.......This is the saddest president I have ever seen....but you better get used to seeing his face because you'll be calling him "Mr. PRESIDENT" next January.....or maybe not ......you could move to INDIA....BYE

[Woochifer]

Geeeeeez, la-freakin' weez, Bruce. You and I have been right in sync on these boards for a long time, but here in the political arena I couldn't disagree with you more. This chimpanzee that sits in our Oval Office has been the greatest disaster of a prez that I've ever seen in all of my years on the planet. I've lived under 13 different presidential administrations, and this one has proven to be in a class by itself when it comes to lies, deception, secrecy, bad judgment, and worst of all - a complete and total disregard for the well-being of the citizens. To add insult to injury, Dubya is a complete embarassment every time he appears in public and opens his mouth.

I cannot fathom just where (other than the Republican Propaganda Machine) you've gotten all of these negative opinions about John Kerry. Maybe there are things about him that I'm not aware of, but whatever his faults and/or shortcomings may or may not be, I have no doubt whatsoever that he'll make one helluva lot better president than the a**hole that we have now. I'm looking forward to November when I can vote for Mickey Mouse or Jerry Seinfeld or Barry Bonds or Martin Sheen or Jim Carrey or Dennis Kucinich or Al Sharpton or Jon Stewart or Chris Rock ... anybody will make a better prez than Dubya - the biggest fraud to ever manipulate his way into the presidency!


Aw come on, Woodie! Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think of W? :)

Wow, maybe the networks should put you behind a mic if they ever need a true counterpoint to go to.

[Woochifer]

Bruce,
How about a vote for Ralph Nader? I'm a registered Democrat, who thought the two main choices in the 2000 election were pathetic, to put it mildly. I voted for Nader. Some may claim that, just like Perot in '92 and '96, it was a wasted vote. However, I see the stronger showing of third party candidates make a statement of the growing unrest in this country of the current two party political system. Maybe, just maybe, it will help improve the choices in the future. It's better than a no vote, because it shows displeasure with the current system.
Sort of like leaving a $1 tip is a stronger message than leaving no tip at a restaurant. It doesn't say that 'I forgot', it says 'your service sucked'. :mad:

John

Or why not a Libertarian vote? If someone advocates eliminating entitlement programs and putting everything in the hands of the market, that would go more along the lines of their philosophy than anything. Interestingly, plenty of Libertarians have come out against the Iraq war as well (largely because a lot of them are philosophically anti-interventionist).

Personally, I think the stronger that third parties get, the more true dialog about the role of government we will have. Even with all the neocon puppeteering going on with the Bush Administration, the campaign in a two-party system will come down to courting that 20% swing vote electorate, and in general those voters are the ones who don't want to deviate too far from the status quo and are most resistant to major policy changes.

[mtrycraft]

It's sad....after watching that speech...I now know why we are in so much trouble as a country.....when you have an individual with this kind of intelligence running the greatest nation on earth...what else can you expect....thank GOD that his numbers are falling in the polls.....just imagine him being elected for four more years...


I'd rather not imagine or 4 years will be hell for me living with this holier than thou administration that want to limit free speech, artistic expressions, what adults can watch, etc.

[mtrycraft]

I'm quite sure that he was warned over and over not to give a sound bite to a "gotcha" question that could be usd against him. So, yes, he struggled with how to answer in a way that wouldn't arm his political enemies.

Not all the questions were known ahead of time. Like the "gotcha" question: "Can you think of one mistake you've made?" - Now do you really think he would answer that?

-Bruce


Calling on that reporter would have been appropriate. But I was sadly disappointed even in his prepared responses.

[mtrycraft]

Or why not a Libertarian vote? If someone advocates eliminating entitlement programs and putting everything in the hands of the market, that would go more along the lines of their philosophy than anything. Interestingly, plenty of Libertarians have come out against the Iraq war as well (largely because a lot of them are philosophically anti-interventionist).

Personally, I think the stronger that third parties get, the more true dialog about the role of government we will have. Even with all the neocon puppeteering going on with the Bush Administration, the campaign in a two-party system will come down to courting that 20% swing vote electorate, and in general those voters are the ones who don't want to deviate too far from the status quo and are most resistant to major policy changes.


While your cause is correct, it cannot succeed. The only problem with the two responses, yours and above is that there is zero chance of such a president and an improved chance of 4 more years of what we have.

[mtrycraft]

Geeeeeez, la-freakin' weez, Bruce. You and I have been right in sync on these boards for a long time, but here in the political arena I couldn't disagree with you more. !


Because it is much easier to agree on science than politics? :)
Politics is hard to test, an idea.

[mtrycraft]

GW Bush has had only 12 press conferences thus far, which is much fewer than for any president in recent memory. His performance last night just shows why he avoids open ended forums where his answers aren't available on a teleprompter (or fed to him by Cheney).

I guess we know for sure why the two of them will appear together behing closed doors with the commission.

[paul_pci]

Really. Why not go live in India or Africa or any one of another countries if you think it's so bad here.



And you think this is something new? Of course the fact that we gain up to 4 jobs to support the overseas job is unimportant, right?



And the insurance companies have no hand in this? Of course, Medicare isn't another failed socialist entitlement.



Another entitlement program that should have been phased out long ago in favor of incentives to save.

The only plan Kerry has is to raise taxes to butress these poorly managed socialist programs.



And the closer to communism we'll move.

-Bruce


Dude,

Sophistication will win out over pretenstion any day. Try it sometime, because making an observation that we currently have a poor economy is NOT a call for a radical lifestyle change or change in national citizenship. I will grant you that Americans, in general, are culturally myopic and our economy looks stellar when compared to India or most African nations, but their economic failings are not what we wake up to day in and day out. Accordingly, intra-national economic problems are well worth examination, analysis, and commentary. One should not have to hand over citizen rights just to make observations. There are always less fortunate circumstances in any given political and economic topic and to appeal to those circumstances, however extreme, is logically suspect at best, if not just a cheap refutation. Your unsophisticated remark is geared at shutting down dialog which certainly won't lead to any problem solving breakthoughs. While foregin economies impact the U.S, like it or not, Americans live with the American economy, not any others. Again, most Americans don't have any experience with real deprivation or suffering, but that does not impinge on their right or ability to participate in a national dialog on how Bush sold our economic prosperity to big business.

[PPG]

I predict even though Kerry will actually win in November, Bush & his foot soldiers will figure out a way to steal the next term from him like they did from Gore in 2000.

And, not only does Bush deserve to go for the Iraq mess that has diverted the war on terrorism, he also deserves to go back to Texas next January for not being able to capture Bin Laden. We can send probes to Mars but we can't catch this rat after all this time? Doesn't make sense with all the technology we have.

[D-DAY]

Here is some advice for all of you. Stick to music cause none of you know jack squat when it comes to politics. President Bush has hurt none of you in anyway. His speech was once again a reminder to Americans that the U.S. will win the war on terror. Besides FLZapped none of you seem to have any idea about how the outside world works so instead of actually having a problem with President Bush you just repeat whatever some band says. (I know most of you have to be smarter then to act like DMB fans so try and act your ages. The 60's are over and rock protests are over) BUSH IN '04! KERRY FOR GENERAL SECRETARY OF VIETNAM!

[PPG]

No, man - you're wrong. Nostradamus talked about "The Village Idiot" during the time we're in right now. Check the quatranes :-)

[piece-it pete]

My eye.

I think we've become so used to slick willies' snake oil tongue that we forget to consider content.

Lincoln was routinely mocked for his appearance. Not that Bush is Lincoln, but many b_tching about their current legally elected leader here would have undoubtedly been pissed at that great gentleman for, among many things, Shermans death march through the south. His second election would certainly be an issue, too, as none of the ceded states voted. How could they allow that election to stand? What massive disenfranchment.

Sound silly? Right now the Dems are still crying over the Electoral collage, though I didn't hear about it when Billary was in power.

Also, with the genius of foriegn policy we see playing out now, Bush will be mentioned along with Monroe as one of the far reaching long term thinkers of that policy.

The last great Dem President will be seen as a pandering - well - idiot. I said kill Osama! No, you said don't kill him! Give the Islamic radicals power in Kosovo! They didn't need all those ancient churches anyway. The PLO will negotiate in good faith. Let's legitimise them. Where, in 8 years, are the sucesses? Is his lasting foriegn policy one of appeasing terrorists? What about Kerry?

Kerry will not be able to do one d_mned thing if elected, you'all can't stomach the intentional killing of bad guys and displacement of (and accidental killing of) civilians neccessary to take out the root causes: they (the bad guys) will be back, and you (and other truly innocent civilians worldwide) will be crying.

Pete

PS: not everyone, of course :) , it's as usual "if the shoe fits"......

[bturk667]

Yes, But I demand more from the leader of this country! I want a man who can speak well when asked questions. Not one that has as hard of a time as he does to come up with the proper words to express himself! Is this to much to ask?

[bturk667]

Both Bush and Kerry are the wrong ones to run this country. Alas, they are the only two viable choices we have. Again, the people of thios great country are left to decide between the lesser of two evils.

I will reluctantly choose Kerry!

[bturk667]

With they way the man speakes. I for one am glad he does not have more of them.

[D-DAY]

I don't know how you can come to a conclusion like that. President Bush misspoke no more then any other Presidential hopeful but the lib media and the people that don't want a sucessful America need to make him seem like he is an exception. Besides, what it sounds like you are saying iss that President Bush is bad because he has misspoken before? That is not a good reason to hate a president. Also John Kerry would be a horrible president just like he is a horrible senator. At least President Bush has a plan and beliefs. How can some one change their beliefs so often like Kerry?

[Justlisten2]

Here is some advice for all of you. Stick to music cause none of you know jack squat when it comes to politics. President Bush has hurt none of you in anyway. His speech was once again a reminder to Americans that the U.S. will win the war on terror. Besides FLZapped none of you seem to have any idea about how the outside world works so instead of actually having a problem with President Bush you just repeat whatever some band says. (I know most of you have to be smarter then to act like DMB fans so try and act your ages. The 60's are over and rock protests are over) BUSH IN '04! KERRY FOR GENERAL SECRETARY OF VIETNAM!


You need to get off the crack man! Your posts are a riot, keep up the good work, not. :D

[bturk667]

Ronald Regan, George H.W. Bush, and Bill Clinton were all more well spoken then George W. Bush. Do you need me to go farther back, or is that enough? His verbal skills, if that what you want to call them, are horrible.

No Bush is bad because he will not take responsibility for his actions! He said he would not have done anything differently after 9/11. He also stated that he would not admitt if he was wrong. Maybe these are qualities you like in your President. I, however, demand more. I want him to admit when he is wrong, and also to hold himself accountable, and say so publicly, for the failures of his administration.

As for Kerry, I have know idea how bad or good of a President he would be. Maybe you could let me look into your crystal ball?

Honestly, I think Bush is a horrible President, and I do not believe Kerry would be much better. Certainly he can not be much worse. But there is only one way to find out. That is to elect him President. He is getting my vote. He is the lesser of two evils.

[FLZapped]

Geeeeeez, la-freakin' weez, Bruce. You and I have been right in sync on these boards for a long time, but here in the political arena I couldn't disagree with you more. This chimpanzee that sits in our Oval Office has been the greatest disaster of a prez that I've ever seen in all of my years on the planet. I've lived under 13 different presidential administrations, and this one has proven to be in a class by itself when it comes to lies, deception, secrecy, bad judgment, and worst of all - a complete and total disregard for the well-being of the citizens. To add insult to injury, Dubya is a complete embarassment every time he appears in public and opens his mouth.

I cannot fathom just where (other than the Republican Propaganda Machine) you've gotten all of these negative opinions about John Kerry. Maybe there are things about him that I'm not aware of, but whatever his faults and/or shortcomings may or may not be, I have no doubt whatsoever that he'll make one helluva lot better president than the a**hole that we have now. I'm looking forward to November when I can vote for Mickey Mouse or Jerry Seinfeld or Barry Bonds or Martin Sheen or Jim Carrey or Dennis Kucinich or Al Sharpton or Jon Stewart or Chris Rock ... anybody will make a better prez than Dubya - the biggest fraud to ever manipulate his way into the presidency!

You know, you accuse me of being part of the "republican" propaganda machine, what are you? You are just repeating all the BS from Gore to the DNC.

I'm a registered Democrat and there is no way in hell I'm voting for that commie Kerry. He's a friggin traitor. His speech he gave to Congress after he returned from Vietnam was used against our POWs. Most of the people he talked about weren't there, weren't involved if they were there, or didn't exist.

And it wasn't HIS medals over the wall when he pulled that stunt, friggin' hypocrit.

And if you want an idea of how he Kerry would be as a president, you only need to look at his congressional voting record. Do a search, I posted many examples of it a while back.

I don't agree with some of the things that Bush has done, but there is no way I'm voting for a Ted Kennedy prototype. (I specifically did not incluide his assasinated brothers, because they were resonable men)

-Bruce

[Rikki]

Why not go live in India or Africa or any one of another countries if you think it's so bad here.
No, I'll live here with a new President thank you.

And you think this is something new?
No, not for Republicans.

Of course the fact that we gain up to 4 jobs to support the overseas job is unimportant, right?
Yea four new jobs at
1) Taco Bell
2) McDonald's
3) Burger King
4) Wendy's
I'll need to work at all four to make my current salary when my job goes overseas. Of course the Bush Administration wants to call classify those fast jobs as "manufacturing" jobs now, so I won't feel degraded making $6 per hour.


The only plan Kerry has is to raise taxes to butress these poorly managed socialist programs. And the closer to communism we'll move.
Communism ? I think you mean with Bush. "Cleaning up" the radio and TV so we only see "decent" programming. Dictating who can and can not get married. Doesn't sound like freedom to me. America deserves better. The man can barely put a sentence together, let alone run the country. Someone must have told him by now that he didn't really win the election in 2000.

[Rikki]

Both Bush and Kerry are the wrong ones to run this country. Alas, they are the only two viable choices we have. Again, the people of thios great country are left to decide between the lesser of two evils.

I will reluctantly choose Kerry!

I agree. We need to somehow/someday elect an everyday average joe. Not a millionaire who can't relate to the middle class. Of course if we keep Bush in office there may not even be a middle class in four years :eek: so it may not really be an issue after all.

[JSE]

I agree. We need to somehow/someday elect an everyday average joe. Not a millionaire who can't relate to the middle class. Of course if we keep Bush in office there may not even be a middle class in four years :eek: so it may not really be an issue after all.


Do you really think Kerry won't do the same? He's going to look after his own ass just like every other politician out there. By the way, KERRY IS VERY RICH! If you think the middle class is any better off with Kerry, then you really need to look at at Kerry again. The bottom line is, Kerry wants to increase taxes and take more money out of our paychecks. How does that help me? How does that help you? Bush on the other hand put more money in your pocket. Ah the horror. Give me the money and I will donate it to charities that can make a difference. A charity that helps someone, not just sustains them is poverty like most of the "social programs" in existance today.

JSE

[mtrycraft]

Do you really think Kerry won't do the same? He's going to look after his own ass just like every other politician out there. By the way, KERRY IS VERY RICH! If you think the middle class is any better off with Kerry, then you really need to look at at Kerry again. The bottom line is, Kerry wants to increase taxes and take more money out of our paychecks. How does that help me? How does that help you? Bush on the other hand put more money in your pocket. Ah the horror. Give me the money and I will donate it to charities that can make a difference. A charity that helps someone, not just sustains them is poverty like most of the "social programs" in existance today.

JSE

Bush family is not rich? I have no idea who has more, certainly more than I have :)
Kerry is not a social extreme conservative.

[cam]

I agree. We need to somehow/someday elect an everyday average joe. Not a millionaire who can't relate to the middle class. Of course if we keep Bush in office there may not even be a middle class in four years :eek: so it may not really be an issue after all.
you guys will have Arnold as a possible vote. And if that happens he can tell the enemy,"I'll be back".

[Rikki]

you guys will have Arnold as a possible vote. And if that happens he can tell the enemy,"I'll be back".
Arnold wasn't born in the US so he can't run for President. His wife Maria Shriver could run though. Now that would be a real power couple ;)


By the way, KERRY IS VERY RICH!
Yes, I know both Bush and Kerry are both of course millionaires and can't relate to the middle class. My point was that those two are the only choices that can win the election. We need an average joe choice as well. Maybe a reality show to pick the best qualified American for President ?

[JSE]

Bush family is not rich? I have no idea who has more, certainly more than I have :)
Kerry is not a social extreme conservative.


Yep they are pretty rich as well. That was not my point though. I just think it's funny that the "middle" and "lower" class think Kerry is the answer. They are always whinning that Bush is a rich conservative snop that can't relate to the "working" class and is only out for big business. New Flash! Kerry is also a rich snob that will also support big business. Democrats have just been able to snow-job it's followers into believing they are looking out for the little guy. Get real, what a joke. Where do ya think a huge amount of Kerry's campaign contributions come from?

JSE

[bturk667]

"Kerry is very rich." Well actually his wife is very rich. The fact is Kerry wants to raise the taxes for the top 2% in this country, not the middle or lower classes! In other words, he would rescind the tax cut for the rich, given to them by another rich person. Who? Well, that would be George W. Bush, that is who. You seem to forget that he too is wealthy; nicely omitted!

[bturk667]

Actually, the Republicans are trying to add a Constitutional Amendment that would allow immigrants- I'm not even sure if they have to become citizens, but I think they have to-so they can hold the highest office in the land. So not only could Arnold in fact be President one day, but so could Jerry Springer! Think about that for a while!

[JSE]

"You seem to forget that he too is wealthy; nicely omitted!"

Uh, No?

Read it again scootter! Focus on the "as well" in the first part of my post. Good try. :rolleyes:

JSE

[PPG]

Any of ya see this interview by Mike Wallace of Bob Woodward on 60 Minutes last night? Thoughts? Comments?

[FLZapped]

Hey Bruce....You've got a lot of pent up anger...that's not good for your health....drop that "love it or leave it" CRAP...we've heard that before........Agree with everything Bush says or you're not a good AMERICAN.....BULL****.....we are BETTER AMERICANS because we don't agree.......This is the saddest president I have ever seen....but you better get used to seeing his face because you'll be calling him "Mr. PRESIDENT" next January.....or maybe not ......you could move to INDIA....BYE

You're putting words in my mouth. Never said love it or leave it, but now that you mention it.....nor did I say anyone had to agree with everything bush says or your not a good American. There are a lot of things I don't care for about Bush. But there is no way in hell I'll vote for Kerry. He's a socialist and a traitor as far as I'm concerned. He and Ted Kennedy have ruined my political party. They need to get the hell out and start their own.

-Bruce

"North Vietnamese Genl. Giap penned a book, 'How We Won The
War,' pointing to protest groups like John Forbe Kerry's for
encouraging anti-American forces during the Vietnam War."

[FLZapped]

Calling on that reporter would have been appropriate. But I was sadly disappointed even in his prepared responses.

I can agree. His answers were monolithic. He had one message, and only one message to convey - or so it would seem.

-Bruce

[FLZapped]

Dude,

Sophistication will win out over pretenstion any day. Try it sometime, because making an observation that we currently have a poor economy is NOT a call for a radical lifestyle change or change in national citizenship. I will grant you that Americans, in general, are culturally myopic and our economy looks stellar when compared to India or most African nations, but their economic failings are not what we wake up to day in and day out. Accordingly, intra-national economic problems are well worth examination, analysis, and commentary. One should not have to hand over citizen rights just to make observations. There are always less fortunate circumstances in any given political and economic topic and to appeal to those circumstances, however extreme, is logically suspect at best, if not just a cheap refutation. Your unsophisticated remark is geared at shutting down dialog which certainly won't lead to any problem solving breakthoughs. While foregin economies impact the U.S, like it or not, Americans live with the American economy, not any others. Again, most Americans don't have any experience with real deprivation or suffering, but that does not impinge on their right or ability to participate in a national dialog on how Bush sold our economic prosperity to big business.

Just getting folks to look over the fence a bit. This is one case where we are clearly on the "greener" side. However, I would like to know what you call selling out? You mean the tax cuts. Lets see, I got money back, and I certainly can't qualify as big business.

How about the thousands of sub class-s businesses that benifitied by the tax break? Think they are big business? Most are sole proprieterships where the owner must report his total intake as income, even though his actual draw is a small fraction of what the business itself earns.

The really large corporations, like Microsoft, McDonalds, etc., are hardly affected by these events. They have armies of tax law experts to help them avoid paying taxes.

Again, we hardly have a poor economy, there was no danger of the banking system collapsing, or other such debacles like we saw during the depression. While the economy may have struggled for a bit, it has shown remarkable resiliencey and is rebounding nicely.

-Bruce

[mtrycraft]

The really large corporations, like Microsoft, McDonalds, etc., are hardly affected by these events. They have armies of tax law experts to help them avoid paying taxes.

-Bruce


60% of large corps don't pay taxes? what a deal.If you are a very rich person, your taxes are scaled to benefit you, scaled way down. Not sure how accurate this is but that is what is floating out there. 120 million are not even on the tax rolls. Not much left to pay for the budget. No wonder we are so much in debt and getting worse.

[FLZapped]

Bruce,
How about a vote for Ralph Nader? I'm a registered Democrat, who thought the two main choices in the 2000 election were pathetic, to put it mildly. I voted for Nader. Some may claim that, just like Perot in '92 and '96, it was a wasted vote. However, I see the stronger showing of third party candidates make a statement of the growing unrest in this country of the current two party political system. Maybe, just maybe, it will help improve the choices in the future. It's better than a no vote, because it shows displeasure with the current system.
Sort of like leaving a $1 tip is a stronger message than leaving no tip at a restaurant. It doesn't say that 'I forgot', it says 'your service sucked'. :mad:

John

I've looked at Ralph, and he is extreme in an entirely different direction as far as I can tell. He's been a pretty good consumer advocate, but I just can't seem him in the oval office.

As someone else has mentioned elsewhere, the current two parties have sucessfully managed to strangle any real competition. But they haven't helped themselves either by offering rather poor candidates. Nader has probably been one of the stronger in that regard.

-Bruce

[bturk667]

Okay Kenny?
"Do you really think Kerry waon't do the same? He's going to look after his own ass just like every other politician out there. By the way, KERRY IS VERY RICH! If you think the middle class is ant better off with Kerry, then you really need to look at at Kerry again." You continue to write more anti-Kerry/pro Bush stuff. Again NICELY OMITTED! No where do you mention on this post, which is the one I am replying to, that Bush too is rich!

Have a nice day SCOOTER!?!

[JSE]

"Again NICELY OMITTED! No where do you mention on this post, which is the one I am replying to, that Bush too is rich!"

Oh......My....... GOD! I can't keep having this conversation with you. This is so childish. I am ashamed I have sunkin to this level. For the last time and then I am done with you. Read slow and carefully.

mtrycraft posted,

"Bush family is not rich? "

My response to this,

"Yep they are pretty rich as well. "

Do you now understand it? I think I pretty clearly admitted Bush is rich. Again just in case you don't get it this time, "BUSH IS RICH". Happy now?

The bigger point, who cares. I was trying to point out that both Kerry and Bush are rich and nither on of them is ever going to look out for anything except their own ass. Oh no, I just said something negative about Bush. :eek: Just like you, I could think of better people to be in office right now but given the choices we have right now, I support Bush. That does not mean I will never disagree with him.

Obviously, I need to spell things out better for you. My bad. I will try better in the future.

JSE

[bturk667]

P.S. Scooter, I see you did not mention your mistake. You know the one that you wrote stating that Kerry would raise taxes - you implied the middle class - which is wrong. He wants to raise the taxes of the upper 2%.
Scooter, have a great day!

[bturk667]

Man, I'm sorry, but you are sometimes stupid. Did I not write that I was replying to your earlier post, not your post to Mtrycrafts? See, I do not read anything that wise man has to say. Again, in the post I am referring to you did NOT MENTION BUSH'S WEALTH! Nicely omitted!
Have a nice day Scooter!

[JSE]

Yes, I am stupid. You have accomplished your goal.

JSE

[bturk667]

Made me fear Geroge W. Bush even more. Doing God's work? Yeah, that is nice, Islamic Fundamentalists VS. Geroge (Doing God's work) Bush. That is just what we needed!

[bturk667]

My goal? I did not make you stupid, did I?

[PPG]

What am I - a friggin' ghost poster? I'll ask again so we can get some discussion going back on the topic: did any of you people here see 60 Minutes last night?

[bturk667]

I answered. Why not post it as a new topic?

[PPG]

I answered. Why not post it as a new topic?

Actually, I should have. As I should probably post the following topic in a separate thread but I won't. Madeline Albright was on CNN this morning and indirectly blamed the Bush administration for causing the US to lose it's credibility in the eyes of the world community by going the war alone last year, independent of the UN. Now, we don't appear to know what the hell we're going to do with the turnover of power on 30-June, not to mention Spain is pulling out as is The Dominican Republic and one more small country I don't recall right now. So, we dissed the UN last year, now we need them big-time. Way to go, dubya. What a mess.

[bturk667]

Are you afraid to let people how you feel about politics? How many people do you think will read this post? You might as well not even post!

[JSE]

Actually, I should have. As I should probably post the following topic in a separate thread but I won't. Madeline Albright was on CNN this morning and indirectly blamed the Bush administration for causing the US to lose it's credibility in the eyes of the world community by going the war alone last year, independent of the UN. Now, we don't appear to know what the hell we're going to do with the turnover of power on 30-June, not to mention Spain is pulling out as is The Dominican Republic and one more small country I don't recall right now. So, we dissed the UN last year, now we need them big-time. Way to go, dubya. What a mess.


We went in alone? How is that true. Spain and the DR had minimal troops in there to begin with. They did what they said they would do and now they are pulling out. Big Suprise! I don't think many thought they would stay there indefinitely.

Who did we lose credibility with? France? Germany? The Middle East? Per the left's own argument, the Middle East hated us long before we went into Iraq. What now, they hate us even more? LOL. It's funny, countries like Syria, Libya and Iran seemed to have a new sense of cooperation with the US. Granted some still have a long way to go but they are being far more forthcoming that they have been in the past.

The UN has been chomping at the bit to get into Iraq. Lots of money to be made. The UN is decent at some things like provided peace keeping troops, medical aid, food, etc. They could now actually serve a useful purpose. Why would we now not want them to help out. The UN can always say no to the US and refuse to go into Iraq if they feel they have been spurned by the US, but we all know that's not going to happen.

JSE

[Rikki]

It's funny, countries like Syria, Libya and Iran seemed to have a new sense of cooperation with the US. Granted some still have a long way to go but they are being far more forthcoming that they have been in the past.

That's true. That may be the only good thing that came out of the Iraq invasion. Only time will tell if they are sincere but they are probably cooperating because they are afraid we will invade them. Bush may wake up one day and say that God (his God not their God) told him to invade another one of our enemies. They probably think Bush is even more insane than they are. Insanity seems to be the only way to deal with some of these countries. Hey - whatever works I guess.

[JSE]

That's true. That may be the only good thing that came out of the Iraq invasion. Only time will tell if they are sincere but they are probably cooperating because they are afraid we will invade them. Bush may wake up one day and say that God (his God not their God) told him to invade another one of our enemies. They probably think Bush is even more insane than they are. Insanity seems to be the only way to deal with some of these countries. Hey - whatever works I guess.


Glad we agree on something. Do some of these countries think Bush is more insane than they are? Maybe they do, and is that a bad thing? In some cases yes, in some cases no. For the most part though, I think it's great that we are more feared today than ever. I know that angers alot of "peace-at-all-cost" freaks, but I think we are safer for it. Besides Iraq, terrorism against the US and it's interest has decreased. Saudi seems to be getting it pretty bad right now. Is that a bad thing? I don't mean to wish harm on any country( well maybe some), but better there than here. I hear a lot of people on this board saying that we are worse off now than before 9/11 and Iraq in terms of security. They say the world hates us and is gunning for us. Really? To me, it's seems like it's been pretty quite here. Granted that could change in a second.

JSE