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Worf101
06-17-2011, 07:22 AM
I just bought a 7 disk set Donald ***en's "The Nightfly" Compendeum. In addition to the standard CD's the collection contains VCD's of his 3 solo albums "The Nightfly", "Kamakariad" and "Morph the Cat". On the VCD's are renderings of the album in DD, DTS and something called HiFi-PCM etc... I played around with the DTS format and enjoyed it, but I don't know what in heavens name the PCM file is supposed to give me over ordinary WAV files (help Terrance). I was forced to play these disks through my Oppo 83 and loved the sound.

Worf

Woochifer
06-17-2011, 08:39 AM
That's just bizarre that this set would include VCDs, given that many Region 1 DVD players won't play them. I would guess that this set is aimed more at overseas audiences, where VCDs were more widely used than in North America.

I would assume that the "PCM" file does the same thing as a WAV file. The WAV format just provides the headings and the file wrapper. The underlying audio data is uncompressed PCM.

recoveryone
06-17-2011, 08:57 AM
I have the DVDA of the Nightfly LP and it sounds sweet, the formats are:
Advanced Resolution Surround Sound 48kHz/24 bit
Advanced Resolution Stereo 48kHz/24 bit
DD & DTS 5.1 Surround Sound
and watching the video of New Frontier is a hoot.

bfalls
06-17-2011, 09:23 AM
I have several VCDs of John Mellencamp I bought many years ago. I remember playing them on my Pioneer Laserdisc player. I have a friend whose wife is Mellencamp's cousin. I asked him to have John autograph the VCDs along with other albums I have of his. He gave us backstage passes for a concert of his at the Alladin in Los Vegas. One of the best live performances I've seen.

On one VCD is a rare video of Mellencamp singing "Under the Boardwalk". I've seen copies on YouTube, but haven't seen it in publication. One of my favorites.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
06-17-2011, 01:39 PM
I just bought a 7 disk set Donald ***en's "The Nightfly" Compendeum. In addition to the standard CD's the collection contains VCD's of his 3 solo albums "The Nightfly", "Kamakariad" and "Morph the Cat". On the VCD's are renderings of the album in DD, DTS and something called HiFi-PCM etc... I played around with the DTS format and enjoyed it, but I don't know what in heavens name the PCM file is supposed to give me over ordinary WAV files (help Terrance). I was forced to play these disks through my Oppo 83 and loved the sound.

Worf

Worf,
As Wooch has stated, it is a uncompressed PCM file. WAV files are more associated with computers which is probably why they didn't encode into the WAV format.

Woochifer
06-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Another thought came to mind -- how much space do those VCDs actually have for three different audio tracks? The VCD uses the White Book standard, but retains the same 650 MB disc configuration used in Red Book audio CDs.

I recall that The Nightfly was a short album (less than 40 minutes), so that would leave about half of the disc space available for DD and DTS tracks. But, Kamakiriad is much longer and I don't see how an uncompressed PCM track there would fit alongside a couple of lossy 5.1 tracks.

Makes me think that either that "hifi" PCM track is actually a downsampled track (I would find that very hard to believe given how much of a stickler for sound quality Donald F*gan is) or it's some new name for a different lossless format.

And given Donald F*gan's history, I'm actually very surprised that this set was not issued as a Blu-ray release. All of his albums have already been remixed for 5.1 at 96/24 resolution, and Blu-ray would allow for digital output of the full resolution through a receiver/processor via HDMI.

thekid
06-18-2011, 03:45 AM
I have discovered that a John Mellencamp and a Doc Watson CD that I have use the HDCD format. My Oppo's are the only players that will decode that format. Nothing on the CD case will tell you that they are HDCD it only is on the disc itself.

Woochifer
06-18-2011, 10:04 AM
I have discovered that a John Mellencamp and a Doc Watson CD that I have use the HDCD format. My Oppo's are the only players that will decode that format. Nothing on the CD case will tell you that they are HDCD it only is on the disc itself.

HDCD has been around for quite a while (it actually predates DVD-A and SACD). A fair number of CD and DVD players, and AV receivers have used it. Microsoft now owns the format (and has done a lousy job at marketing and improving it), it can also be used with Windows Media Player and a compatible sound card.

It slightly boosts the dynamic range by piggybacking some metadata into the 16-bit audio stream. It's debatable as to how much it actually improves the sound quality, since so much music is now mastered with a heavy dose of dynamic range compression. Also, the HDCD encoding raises the noise floor when encoded CDs play through regular CD players.

thekid
06-18-2011, 04:16 PM
HDCD has been around for quite a while (it actually predates DVD-A and SACD). A fair number of CD and DVD players, and AV receivers have used it. Microsoft now owns the format (and has done a lousy job at marketing and improving it), it can also be used with Windows Media Player and a compatible sound card.

It slightly boosts the dynamic range by piggybacking some metadata into the 16-bit audio stream. It's debatable as to how much it actually improves the sound quality, since so much music is now mastered with a heavy dose of dynamic range compression. Also, the HDCD encoding raises the noise floor when encoded CDs play through regular CD players.

Given the age of the discs I figured it had been around awhile but I don't see too many "modern" players that claim to play HDCD.

Today I did manage to pick up a 2-disc set of Handels "Greatest Hits" in Surround Sound on the Interscope label. I also have 2-disc set of Bach in Surround Sound as well. both sound very good on my Oppo/Klipsch HT set-up.

E-Stat
06-19-2011, 05:53 AM
...but I don't know what in heavens name the PCM file is supposed to give me over ordinary WAV files
The WAV format is PCM, linear at that. What could differ would be the specifics such as sample rate and word size. What are they?


I was forced to play these disks through my Oppo 83 and loved the sound.
"Forced" is the appropriate word in today's market.

rw

Woochifer
06-19-2011, 12:01 PM
The WAV format is PCM, linear at that. What could differ would be the specifics such as sample rate and word size. What are they?

WAV seems more like a container file format. It actually can be used for compressed audio, but just happens to be used most often for uncompressed LPCM audio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wav

recoveryone
06-21-2011, 10:02 PM
I hate you Worf :} , popped this sucker in tonight and really had a great time listening. playing the High Res surround is outputted in 7.1 on my system and it just fills the room. I.G.Y and New Frontier leap from every corner of the room and lets you just slide down on the couch and smile and Maxine will have you close your eyes and drift off to the lyrics. I just do not need to get into the habit of searching for DVD-A disk, but the quality of the sound is hard to by pass.

Worf101
06-22-2011, 07:04 AM
I hate you Worf :} , popped this sucker in tonight and really had a great time listening. playing the High Res surround is outputted in 7.1 on my system and it just fills the room. I.G.Y and New Frontier leap from every corner of the room and lets you just slide down on the couch and smile and Maxine will have you close your eyes and drift off to the lyrics. I just do not need to get into the habit of searching for DVD-A disk, but the quality of the sound is hard to by pass.
Or not.. I'm glad you enjoyed the album and format as much as much as I did. I'm really impressed with the second album "Kamakariad" whcih I'd never heard before. Great ***en/Steely Dan music. As I age I find simpler pleasures, good friends, good music, a good cigar... to be the richer ones.. glad I talked you into it!!! LOL enjoy...

Worf

recoveryone
06-22-2011, 07:23 AM
I have had the disk for a few years, but have not played it since I upgraded my AVR and went to 7.1. I used my old pioneer DV 45-A (multi player) as the BDP I have don't support the format. Just as you said sometimes its the simple things that are priceless.