It's a doggone shame.

[02audionoob]

I wish there was some turntable talk around here. It's a shame. I get the urge to at least post a picture of one sometimes.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5756855867_2722af96c0_z.jpg

[JohnMichael]

If I were home on my computer I would post a picture of my table and download a photo of the Clearaudio Classic with the Classic MC cartridge. The combo is only $2,000. I would still keep the Rega but I would love to compare my hot rodded Rega to a stock model.

It has been too long since I have listened to a Linn or other top tier table. Most of the local audio stores are more intereted in multi channel than analog two channel. I would like to visit an audio shop where you could compare tables and cartridges.

[GMichael]

I don't have the desire to fool around with TT's anymore. Been there, done that. But I do think that this topic should see more traffic around here. Where are all the analog guys these days?

[E-Stat]

I wish there was some turntable talk around here.
A couple of months ago, I purchased a used NAD preamp to replace the Bellari in the garage system. Since it has a moving coil input, I was able to swap the Shure M97 for a Shinon Red Boron cartridge once used in the main system. Definitely better sounding, but I probably need to have it re-tipped by Soundsmith (pic still has Shure in place).

http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/gi.mpl?u=2150&f=c160.jpg

rw

[Hairsonfire]

I don't have the desire to fool around with TT's anymore. Been there, done that. But I do think that this topic should see more traffic around here. Where are all the analog guys these days?

I bought my Musicl Hall 9.1 a year or so ago with the Jolida phono stage and now, a couple of hundred albums later, I am still jazzed by how much fun it continues to be. The last record I picked up was "Kind of Blue" on Legacy 180g vinyl and I am still amazed at how fantastic it sounds. I would never take the stance that CD sounds better than Vinyl or vice versa but I will state that I feel vinyl is a much more involving experience.

[Hairsonfire]

A couple of months ago, I purchased a used NAD preamp to replace the Bellari in the garage system. Since it has a moving coil input, I was able to swap the Shure M97 for a Shinon Red Boron cartridge once used in the main system. Definitely better sounding, but I probably need to have it re-tipped by Soundsmith (pic still has Shure in place).

http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/gi.mpl?u=2150&f=c160.jpg

rw

Very nice Mr. Noob!

[JohnMichael]

A couple of months ago, I purchased a used NAD preamp to replace the Bellari in the garage system. Since it has a moving coil input, I was able to swap the Shure M97 for a Shinon Red Boron cartridge once used in the main system. Definitely better sounding, but I probably need to have it re-tipped by Soundsmith (pic still has Shure in place).

http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/gi.mpl?u=2150&f=c160.jpg

rw

Very nice Ralph. I am not familiar with that cartridge will you tell me about it?

[E-Stat]

I am not familiar with that cartridge will you tell me about it?
The Shinon Red is a medium output (1 mV) moving coil cartridge from the mid-80s. Call it a poor man's Koetsu as it has a slightly romantic, organic tone along with the clarity of a MC. It followed an Accuphase AC-2 and was replaced by a Dynavector DV-20X. I particularly like mid output models because you can generally get away with a two stage preamp and have enough gain.

rw

[frenchmon]

I wish there was some turntable talk around here. It's a shame. I get the urge to at least post a picture of one sometimes.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5756855867_2722af96c0_z.jpg

Nice noob...Getting ready to head off for work....so this evening when I get home I will take the 7.1 out of the box and get some pictures...

[poppachubby]

The Shinon Red is a medium output (1 mV) moving coil cartridge from the mid-80s. Call it a poor man's Koetsu as it has a slightly romantic, organic tone along with the clarity of a MC. It followed an Accuphase AC-2 and was replaced by a Dynavector DV-20X. I particularly like mid output models because you can generally get away with a two stage preamp and have enough gain.

rw

Your description is how I would describe my Nagaoka. Anyhow...how are you Ralph? Your garage system is better than most people's main systems, that Manley gives me erotic dreams. Since the Squeezebox I would like an upgrade.

Did you get a PP1 or a PP2? Either way, I would say both are less regarded than your old Bellari. I traded my Bellari for a Creek and couldn't have been happier. I am running the same deck as you with a Moth MKI (Rega 251) arm.

[E-Stat]

...that Manley gives me erotic dreams. Since the Squeezebox I would like an upgrade.
Doing very well, thank you! The Manley is a great minimalist solution with its two tube analog output and gain controls.


Did you get a PP1 or a PP2?
Actually, neither of those. I purchased a C-160 preamp. Call it a PP-2 along with a line stage driven by a huge linear power supply. It runs as hot as the Threshold! Especially since it allows me to use a moving coil cartridge, the sound is a good bit better. Here (http://www.majerovi.com/richard/nad/nad.htm) are some internal pics I found on the net.

rw

[atomicAdam]

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/IMAG0574.jpg

been spinning nothing but vinyl as of late!

[frenchmon]

My new table...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8196/pict0132a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/219/pict0132a.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6851/pict0139w.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/pict0139w.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6470/pict0142t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/pict0142t.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3747/pict0138h.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/pict0138h.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


I got it with out the cart...so using the 2Mred until I get the 2Mblack...This tabel is light years ahead the the 2.1. The sound is so smooth and liquid compared to the other table which was quit good in its self. If it sounds this good with a cheaper cart like the Red, cant wait to get the Black.

[02audionoob]

Nice addition to the family, frenchmon!

[frenchmon]

Nice addition to the family, frenchmon!

Well Thank you sir....the sound is amazing...even with the Red. Much louder than the 2.1 And the pops and scratches I heard previously with the 2.1 are gone.

I had no idea the Cedar Walton was moaning during his piano solo on Dextor Gordons Album Gothan City until I played it on the 7.1http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2379/pict0143.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/pict0143.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Im wondering if I really should get another phono amp? Dont get me wrong....the one in the Rotel is sounding really good, but I have nothing to compare it to, so I really dont know the level of performance I have. What do you think?

[poppachubby]

Well Thank you sir....the sound is amazing...even with the Red. Much louder than the 2.1 And the pops and scratches I heard previously with the 2.1 are gone.

I had no idea the Cedar Walton was moaning during his piano solo on Dextor Gordons Album Gothan City until I played it on the 7.1[ Im wondering if I really should get another phono amp? Dont get me wrong....the one in the Rotel is sounding really good, but I have nothing to compare it to, so I really dont know the level of performance I have. What do you think?

Congrats!! And welcome to high end analog...you have arrived my friend.

The 2M Black will floor you. I promise that you will only be thinking about your table for at least a couple of months.

As for your Rotel, I like the specs. I can tell you that my Bozak 919 has an amazing phono section. It's both incredible in sound and in design. I would say that it matches my Creek.

The easy and obvious advice is to audition something. I would assume that your Rotel can handle itself up to the 500 mark. Maybe not. It took my modded EICO to undo both my Creek and Bozak. My tech redesigned the old circuitry so that my signal is using BOTH pairs of tubes, much like most standard tubed stages at the $1K mark. He also added an extremely accurate RIAA curve.

The Black is an incredible cart and can indeed be held back by an underachieving stage. For now just sit back and enjoy what you have, worry about it in a few months.

[poppachubby]

Doing very well, thank you! The Manley is a great minimalist solution with its two tube analog output and gain controls.


Actually, neither of those. I purchased a C-160 preamp. Call it a PP-2 along with a line stage driven by a huge linear power supply. It runs as hot as the Threshold! Especially since it allows me to use a moving coil cartridge, the sound is a good bit better. Here (http://www.majerovi.com/richard/nad/nad.htm) are some internal pics I found on the net.

rw

Reminds me of my old Kenwood Basic C1, very clean and minimal.

The other question that popped into my mind was regarding your cabling Ralph. I suppose this is well OT, but what do you have between the SB and Manley? I recently upgraded to a Transparent coax from a not-too-shabby Tributaries. The difference was impressive.

I know you're keen on cables, just curious. Oh yes and analog, carts, tables, records....just to get back on topic. :)

[poppachubby]

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/IMAG0574.jpg

been spinning nothing but vinyl as of late!

Damn...nice. Great to see the ol weight amidst the upper class gear, talk about "movin on up" (to the West side in this case).

[02audionoob]

Im wondering if I really should get another phono amp? Dont get me wrong....the one in the Rotel is sounding really good, but I have nothing to compare it to, so I really dont know the level of performance I have. What do you think?

I like poppa's advice to sit back and enjoy the music. That's what I'm doing, lately. Poppa is a wise man. I still tinker a bit, but no equipment changes. The phono stage is obviously very important and I don't doubt you're going to eventually (if not now) have the desire to upgrade. my integrated doesn't have a phono stage, so I had to find something. I feel like I got lucky with my PS Audio GCPH. I'd like to hear others in its price range, but it's really not practical. I do sometimes wish Rega had one in this range. Maybe someday I'll try a used Rega Fono just for grins.

Since you're on the market for a cartridge, I thought I'd offer up the idea of a Goldring Eroica. It's sort of an obvious choice because of the fact that Music Hall uses Goldring cartridges on their turntables...including the Eroica...but it's more than that. It's a really a nice cartridge on its own. I have it on my P5 while the Goldring 1042 sits in its box, waiting its turn. Both will be on the sidelines for a while in another month or two...when I get my Dynavector from Soundsmith.

[tube fan]

I agree poppa is very wise. Have fun, love the music, and enjoy!

[poppachubby]

It could be that I am wise, but maybe it is more that I am broke! :o

[poppachubby]

I feel like I got lucky with my PS Audio GCPH. I'd like to hear others in its price range, but it's really not practical. I do sometimes wish Rega had one in this range. Maybe someday I'll try a used Rega Fono just for grins.

A Rega Fono?!? Yes I am grinning. Funny stuff. Actually London Audio will be receiving the Rega DAC soon, I am anxious to hear it.

Slippers you should look into the GCPH down the road. Wildly accurate with great features for a decent price.

[atomicAdam]

I have a very nice CDP I've not touch in 3 weeks. Been on a vinyl purchasing and listening binge.

Been buying field recordings from Allen Lomax and George Mitchell.

Pretty good stuff if you are into it.

http://static.boomkat.com/images/412670/333.jpg

http://static.boomkat.com/images/412289/333.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_osaKxjJ33dE/S_AwU7DrTII/AAAAAAAAAsY/-TBJdlZqlB0/s400/va_been_here_main.jpg

Found a little record shop on 24th street in the Mission - on tuesday or thursdays I stop by after I climb at Mission Cliffs and get my burrito & beer on at Faralitos. Owner is cool - I think he is warming up to me - store has some crazy stuff - reminds me of being in a 'college' radio station music store. 80% of the stuff I've never heard of and the newer stuff almost 99% is local stuff I've no idea how it sounds.

[frenchmon]

I like poppa's advice to sit back and enjoy the music. That's what I'm doing, lately.

Well I will take that advice then...thanks Pop's and noob.


Poppa is a wise man.
With out a doubt.



I still tinker a bit, but no equipment changes. The phono stage is obviously very important and I don't doubt you're going to eventually (if not now) have the desire to upgrade.

Yeah...ima saving my pennies now for a preamp change in about 6-12 months. I want to get some tubed preamp to mate with the Rotel amp. I dont like an overly warm sound But I know I want something with the edge taken off a bit....my buddy has a ARC LS17 and I absolutely loved it...not as warm as Peabodys CJ gear but sweet, velvet like while still having a liveliness to it That the sound I like.. But I would rather have something newer in the $1000-$1500 range...got any suggestions? You Pops? Any Body?

My dealer sells Bel Canto which I like but I would rather have one of their DAC's CDP rather than preamp seeing Bel Canto while being outstanding stuff are some what proprietary. He also sells Vincent gear which I have listened to and have no problem with.. Take a look..click on the Vincent side. http://www.vincent-tac.de/

[guote] my integrated doesn't have a phono stage, so I had to find something. I feel like I got lucky with my PS Audio GCPH. I'd like to hear others in its price range, but it's really not practical. I do sometimes wish Rega had one in this range. Maybe someday I'll try a used Rega Fono just for grins. Is the Rega Fono SS?


Since you're on the market for a cartridge, I thought I'd offer up the idea of a Goldring Eroica. It's sort of an obvious choice because of the fact that Music Hall uses Goldring cartridges on their turntables...including the Eroica...but it's more than that. It's a really a nice cartridge on its own. I have it on my P5 while the Goldring 1042 sits in its box, waiting its turn. Both will be on the sidelines for a while in another month or two...when I get my Dynavector from Soundsmith.

Do you know bajaed over on the Audiokarma forum? I got him a deal on a mmf-7.1 with the cart from my dealers. He is in town this weekend picking it up. When may meet up today or tomorrow at my dealers house to sit and talk audio before he goes back to Ohio. We I was at my dealers two days ago and he was breaking in the cart on bajaeds 7.1 before he picks it up, with this album that breaks in new carts, I ask if he would put on an Album so I can hear the Goldring 2400 cart that was on it. So he put on a Muddy Waters live album and man I could tell that cart was outstanding. But I think the system was a little overly warm for my taste. Not because of the cart, but because he had the entire Bel Canto system which is warm ss gear and he was using a Grado phono amp which is also warm toned. But I could still tell the cart is outstanding. Its not totally off my list. In fact with the 7.1 the 2M Red at times with certain artist seem a little to bright ...but the Black is suppose to be a little more pleasant in that regard.

Have you purchased the Dynavector yet? Which one are you getting? Dont know what you are paying but my dealer is able to sell cheaper because he closed his brick building and sells now out of his house. He will sell me a Black for almost $200 cheaper than retail. IF you want I can see what he will sell on for and then I can put you in contact with him and you two can make the transaction. Let me know.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

It could be that I am wise, but maybe it is more that I am broke! :o

Pops...as I mentioned to Art K. one day.....I know broke....he and I are best friends...

[frenchmon]

A Rega Fono?!? Yes I am grinning. Funny stuff. Actually London Audio will be receiving the Rega DAC soon, I am anxious to hear it.

Slippers you should look into the GCPH down the road. Wildly accurate with great features for a decent price.

Thanks oh wise one...ah... I mean Pops....I will put it on the list.

[02audionoob]

Is the Rega Fono SS?



Do you know bajaed over on the Audiokarma forum? I got him a deal on a mmf-7.1 with the cart from my dealers. He is in town this weekend picking it up. When may meet up today or tomorrow at my dealers house to sit and talk audio before he goes back to Ohio. We I was at my dealers two days ago and he was breaking in the cart on bajaeds 7.1 before he picks it up, with this album that breaks in new carts, I ask if he would put on an Album so I can hear the Goldring 2400 cart that was on it. So he put on a Muddy Waters live album and man I could tell that cart was outstanding. But I think the system was a little overly warm for my taste. Not because of the cart, but because he had the entire Bel Canto system which is warm ss gear and he was using a Grado phono amp which is also warm toned. But I could still tell the cart is outstanding. Its not totally off my list. In fact with the 7.1 the 2M Red at times with certain artist seem a little to bright ...but the Black is suppose to be a little more pleasant in that regard.

Have you purchased the Dynavector yet? Which one are you getting? Dont know what you are paying but my dealer is able to sell cheaper because he closed his brick building and sells now out of his house. He will sell me a Black for almost $200 cheaper than retail. IF you want I can see what he will sell on for and then I can put you in contact with him and you two can make the transaction. Let me know.

frenchmon

The Rega Fono is nothing much, as far as I know. It's a budget SS model. I just figure if I pick one up for under $200 on the used market, I could maybe try it out on the wife's Debut III/Kenwood Basic setup. And if it's not better than the phono stage of the Basic C2 I'd sell it. But it was just a fleeting thought...nothing related to trying to achieve what you're aiming for.

I've responded to bajaed's threads and even traded PM's with him. Seems like a great guy. He asked for opinions on the mmf-7.1, among others. I plan to keep watching for his threads. Naturally I like the AK threads that get into modern affordable turntables, instead of the 1960s/1970s models.

The Dynavector is a 10X4. It's in the queue for a re-tip. Thanks for offering to hook me up.

I'm sort of curious about the 2400 since I had a 2200 and liked it. When I sold my mmf-5 I included the 2200 and then bought the 1042. I'm happy with the 1042, but I sort of wish I hadn't let go of the 2200. The buyer is an AKer who has already ditched the mmf-5 for a Rega P1. Very odd.

[frenchmon]

The Rega Fono is nothing much, as far as I know. It's a budget SS model. I just figure if I pick one up for under $200 on the used market, I could maybe try it out on the wife's Debut III/Kenwood Basic setup. And if it's not better than the phono stage of the Basic C2 I'd sell it. But it was just a fleeting thought...nothing related to trying to achieve what you're aiming for.

I've responded to bajaed's threads and even traded PM's with him. Seems like a great guy. He asked for opinions on the mmf-7.1, among others. I plan to keep watching for his threads. Naturally I like the AK threads that get into modern affordable turntables, instead of the 1960s/1970s models.

The Dynavector is a 10X4. It's in the queue for a re-tip. Thanks for offering to hook me up.

I'm sort of curious about the 2400 since I had a 2200 and liked it. When I sold my mmf-5 I included the 2200 and then bought the 1042. I'm happy with the 1042, but I sort of wish I hadn't let go of the 2200. The buyer is an AKer who has already ditched the mmf-5 for a Rega P1. Very odd.

Hey if you needed anything my dealer sells...check with me or him to see if its cheaper than the price you are quoted. He usually is...I will PM you his site so you can take a look at what he offers....he also has some stuff thats not on his site.

Yeah thats strange to ditch a MMF 5 for a P1....Is it the same guy who at one time owned the clearaudio concept ? If it is thats a really nice guy who has been through a lot of gear.

[poppachubby]

Pops...as I mentioned to Art K. one day.....I know broke....he and I are best friends...

Yes I knew you would fit right in over there. Glad to hear it.

[frenchmon]

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/IMAG0574.jpg

been spinning nothing but vinyl as of late!

AA...what tube gear is that? Is that a preamp or an Integrated amp? Is that the Melody?

[02audionoob]

Hey if you needed anything my dealer sells...check with me or him to see if its cheaper than the price you are quoted. He usually is...I will PM you his site so you can take a look at what he offers....he also has some stuff thats not on his site.

Yeah thats strange to ditch a MMF 5 for a P1....Is it the same guy who at one time owned the clearaudio concept ? If it is thats a really nice guy who has been through a lot of gear.

Thanks for the tip on your dealer. I think it was Art K. who had the Concept and now has a P1. I think he had some problems with the Concept but I don't know why he sold it. At one time, he had a P3-24...don't know the story on that one, either...or that Rega Saturn he sold. He does do some gear-changing.

I sort of felt bad about the guy who bought my mmf-5. He had just sold a P3-24 and was downgrading his gear to raise money for expenses, not other gear...and then he apparently didn't like it. I tried to help him set it up and even offered to swap him an Ortofon OM for the Goldring to see if a lighter cartridge would track better. The tracking seemed to be giving him problems.

Trying out some other camera angles...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5773368653_54b8154e10_z.jpg

[frenchmon]

Thanks for the tip on your dealer. I think it was Art K. who had the Concept and now has a P1. I think he had some problems with the Concept but I don't know why he sold it. At one time, he had a P3-24...don't know the story on that one, either...or that Rega Saturn he sold. He does do some gear-changing.

I sort of felt bad about the guy who bought my mmf-5. He had just sold a P3-24 and was downgrading his gear to raise money for expenses, not other gear...and then he apparently didn't like it. I tried to help him set it up and even offered to swap him an Ortofon OM for the Goldring to see if a lighter cartridge would track better. The tracking seemed to be giving him problems.

Trying out some other camera angles...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5773368653_54b8154e10_z.jpg

That arm looks very detailed in craftsmanship...Whats it like? I hear nothing but good things about that arm...and see alot of TT manufactures use the Rega arms as well.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9449/pict0149j.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/pict0149j.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


noob im not even in your ball park when it comes to turntables, but I must say I really love the sound coming from this thing. Back in the 70's and 80's if I had a deck that sounded like this, I would have never sold my TT and albums.

This thing is supper quite in the back ground, has very good bass and tracks very good. The 2.1 was a tease...this things the real deal. And that old 2M Red sounds like a champ sept for a few cuts where the cymbals ring out. Im sure the black or Bronze will take care of that.

[frenchmon]

And I must add that the staging is outstanding as well as the clarity.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5892/pict0150j.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/pict0150j.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[frenchmon]

Its amazing how the Red sounds very different on the 7.1 than it did on teh 2.1..The 7.1 has gotten a level of performance from this cart that the 2.1 never knew was in it.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4364/pict0153yf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40/pict0153yf.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[frenchmon]

Hey noob did you know that Oracle is now using the 9cc arm on one of its tables? Must be a very good arm.

http://www.oracle-audio.com/imagesup/produit/12_paris_site_web_franco_ted.jpg

[frenchmon]

noob...dont know what level of performance you got from your mmf-5 but the 7.1 is just off the chain and this is with the cheap 2M RED.....a better cart,tube preamp and phono amp and im going to be floored. CD? who said anything about a CDP? Dont need them unless one gets lazy. a few more pics....

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4715/pict0157oy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/pict0157oy.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4964/pict0160z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/pict0160z.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3663/pict0161q.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/pict0161q.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Im having fun, before I go and cut the lawn and fire up the grill....

[02audionoob]

That arm looks very detailed in craftsmanship...Whats it like? I hear nothing but good things about that arm...and see alot of TT manufactures use the Rega arms as well.

noob im not even in your ball park when it comes to turntables, but I must say I really love the sound coming from this thing. Back in the 70's and 80's if I had a deck that sounded like this, I would have never sold my TT and albums.

This thing is supper quite in the back ground, has very good bass and tracks very good. The 2.1 was a tease...this things the real deal. And that old 2M Red sounds like a champ sept for a few cuts where the cymbals ring out. Im sure the black or Bronze will take care of that.


And I must add that the staging is outstanding as well as the clarity.






Its amazing how the Red sounds very different on the 7.1 than it did on teh 2.1..The 7.1 has gotten a level of performance from this cart that the 2.1 never knew was in it.




Hey noob did you know that Oracle is now using the 9cc arm on one of its tables? Must be a very good arm.




noob...dont know what level of performance you got from your mmf-5 but the 7.1 is just off the chain and this is with the cheap 2M RED.....a better cart,tube preamp and phono amp and im going to be floored. CD? who said anything about a CDP? Dont need them unless one gets lazy. a few more pics....



Im having fun, before I go and cut the lawn and fire up the grill....

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mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> I do think we’re in the same ball park. As you know, I remain a fan of Music Hall turntables even after selling mine. I like the isolation solutions and really like the tonearms. If I can ever rationalize two turntables, I figure my 2nd turntable might include a Pro-Ject tonearm. I was toying with the idea of an 2 Xperience on the used market but I can never get past the idea that the cost of two turntables is probably spent on one better turntable. I also like the idea of maybe putting a 9cc on an LP12 if I can find the Linn turntable without an arm. That Oracle turntable is a nice testament to Pro-Ject’s quality. I didn’t know about that one. It’s beginning to seem like Pro-Ject has achieved a status for their tonearms that is on par with Rega.

I do like the Rega RB700 tonearm and it’s easy for me to see why the RB251 and others are popular on other manufacturers’ turntables. I don’t understand why people put them on heavy, dampened or suspended turntables, though. I suppose they’re still good, even when they’re not on the type of plinth Rega had in mind. Mine does a marvelous job of digging out detail and not blurring it, especially with the addition of the machined metal subplatter. The TTPSU and the white belt are also noticeable improvements. I think I’m finished upgrading the P5, now. My turntable might just be in last place when it comes to upgrade priority, even behind my beloved tube amp.

Your move to the MMF-7.1 from the 2.1 is an example of how significant the tonearm and turntable are in the equation. Sure, a finer stylus profile will take you to greater heights, but there is much to be gained by giving that stylus better surroundings. Practically every part of the 7.1 is superior to the 2.1 (and the MMF-5) and it shows. It kind of reminds me of how I’ve occasionally seen comment that the P5 is close to the P7 because of the tonearm. But if you look around at each part, everything but the tonearm is upgraded.

[frenchmon]

Sure, a finer stylus profile will take you to greater heights, but there is much to be gained by giving that stylus better surroundings.

I like that idea....im really not hurting for a cart now, the Red is just fine...I can build around the 7.1 now...I do want to change the stock phono cables...I like the Analysis Plus phono cables...I may look into them...check out some reviews... You got any recommendations?

[02audionoob]

I like that idea....im really not hurting for a cart now, the Red is just fine...I can build around the 7.1 now...I do want to change the stock phono cables...I like the Analysis Plus phono cables...I may look into them...check out some reviews... You got any recommendations?

No recommendations, here. I'm sort of looking for cable solutions, too. I've got captive interconnects on the P5, so that stays. From the phono preamp to the integrated I have Straightwire interconnects. I figure I'll leave that. But for the CDP I used a green 75 Ohm video cable to the DAC and the red and blue 75 Ohm cables from the DAC to the integrated. It's fine, but I want to try something else.

[frenchmon]

No recommendations, here. I'm sort of looking for cable solutions, too. I've got captive interconnects on the P5, so that stays. From the phono preamp to the integrated I have Straightwire interconnects. I figure I'll leave that. But for the CDP I used a green 75 Ohm video cable to the DAC and the red and blue 75 Ohm cables from the DAC to the integrated. It's fine, but I want to try something else.

Do you like straight wire? if so,why not replacethe CDP and DAC with straightwire? I like A+ and will move up in the speaker and interconnect line once im done saving for a preamp. I am a believer in keeping the cables all the same brand....but many dont share my views... I've heard others say the A+ phono cable was bright in a system that leans that way, so I dont know, maybe it will be better with tubes.

[02audionoob]

Do you like straight wire? if so,why not replacethe CDP and DAC with straightwire? I like A+ and will move up in the speaker and interconnect line once im done saving for a preamp. I am a believer in keeping the cables all the same brand....but many dont share my views... I've heard others say the A+ phono cable was bright in a system that leans that way, so I dont know, maybe it will be better with tubes.

I've tried this pair on the DAC and it seemed good. It was so good I decided I shouldn't waste on the DAC, since I play the turntable 90 percent of the time. So I guess you're probably right...If I know I like the Straight Wire cable it's a logical choice. The 75 Ohm cable allows a bit of an edge through sometimes; something the Straight Wire doesn't do quite so much.

[frenchmon]

I've tried this pair on the DAC and it seemed good. It was so good I decided I shouldn't waste on the DAC, since I play the turntable 90 percent of the time. So I guess you're probably right...If I know I like the Straight Wire cable it's a logical choice. The 75 Ohm cable allows a bit of an edge through sometimes; something the Straight Wire doesn't do quite so much.

Have you heard anything about Signal cable? Price looks good on the phono cable.

http://www.signalcable.com/analog_interconnects.html

[atomicAdam]

AA...what tube gear is that? Is that a preamp or an Integrated amp? Is that the Melody?

That is the Mystere ia11 integrated amp.

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/manufacturer/man-e-n/mystere/ia11.html

So far I really like what it does with the mid-range and low end. I wish the high end was a bit more liquid - but I'm going to try out some different tube options. I like it cause it is small, sounds good, good price, and is no BS amplifier.

I think I'm all about integrated components at this point - less cabling, power, issues, than separates.

[JohnMichael]

Here is my Rega Planar 2 with my new Anniversary Ringmat mat.

[JohnMichael]

Here is a photo of my Rega Planar 2 without a mat showing the Deepgroove subplatter.

[frenchmon]

Well keep me informed on the forum of the high end if you don't mind. I have officially started a savings towards a tubed preamp and my list so far is ARC, Mystere, their cousin Primaluna, Rouge Audio, Vincent Audio and CJ if not to warm. Seeing I have the Rotel amp at 200 watts I would like a preamp, rather than a integrated. But the characteristics may be the same in the same name brand...so if you don't mind....keep me posted please?

[atomicAdam]

Well keep me informed on the forum of the high end if you don't mind. I have officially started a savings towards a tubed preamp and my list so far is ARC, Mystere, their cousin Primaluna, Rouge Audio, Vincent Audio and CJ if not to warm. Seeing I have the Rotel amp at 200 watts I would like a preamp, rather than a integrated. But the characteristics may be the same in the same name brand...so if you don't mind....keep me posted please?

I've heard both the Mystere and PrimaLuna but would personally take the Mystere. Less gizmos but I think has a cleaner and punchier low end.

But I think the real question to ask yourself about tube amps is what kind you like. There are so many.

KT88
EL34
EL64
2a3
300B
211

and so forth -

The Melody AN211 (http://www.eaststreetaudio.com/Products/82-melody-an211.aspx) I had in for a while paired with the Zu ODs was a match made in heaven for me. Liquid sound, effortless, open, extremely detailed, dynamic, clean, I mean I really just fell in love. You'll have to do some listening before you jump in.

[frenchmon]

Thats just it...I don't know the difference. Whats the difference?

Also... Where do you place the Melody compared to the Mystere and PrimaLuna and Rouge as far as sound?

[frenchmon]

Thats just it...I don't know the difference. Whats the difference?

Also... Where do you place the Melody compared to the Mystere and PrimaLuna and Rouge as far as sound?

Yeah...whom ever I purchase from will have to have a good return policy.

[atomicAdam]

Thats just it...I don't know the difference. Whats the difference?

Also... Where do you place the Melody compared to the Mystere and PrimaLuna and Rouge as far as sound?

Not heard the Rogue -

But the Mystere/PrimaLuna/Melody amps I heard are all different.

Quickly speaking -
All three are detailed - have good dynamics - good staging and that tube like sound.

What I found to be most distinguishing about the three are.
PL - a bit too relaxed for me at lower volumes - alive when pushed - but lows aren't quiet clean enough for me. didn't hear with the KT88 tubes - so sound could radically change.
M - very alive at low volumes - needs a speaker with a bit too much bass to balance out the mids and high end at pushed volumes - very exciting sound.
My - better bass definition - sounds good low or pushed - great mid range - smooth highs

[frenchmon]

Not heard the Rogue -

But the Mystere/PrimaLuna/Melody amps I heard are all different.

Quickly speaking -
All three are detailed - have good dynamics - good staging and that tube like sound.

What I found to be most distinguishing about the three are.
PL - a bit too relaxed for me at lower volumes - alive when pushed - but lows aren't quiet clean enough for me. didn't hear with the KT88 tubes - so sound could radically change.
M - very alive at low volumes - needs a speaker with a bit too much bass to balance out the mids and high end at pushed volumes - very exciting sound.
My - better bass definition - sounds good low or pushed - great mid range - smooth highs

Thanks AA...if you had a choice..what would you choose?.Whats your favorite?

Heres a link to Rouge...maybe you can get one in for review?


http://www.rogueaudio.com/

[02audionoob]

Have you heard anything about Signal cable? Price looks good on the phono cable.

http://www.signalcable.com/analog_interconnects.html

I have not heard of those, as far as I remember. Maybe I'll start searching the used market.

[frenchmon]

I have not heard of those, as far as I remember. Maybe I'll start searching the used market.

IF you find anything and purchase...please let me know what you come up with?

[frenchmon]

Hi noob....

I've had a pair of A+ interconnect cables sitting around and had not used them so I decided to switch them in and the cable that came with the 7.1 out. I don't really know how I feel as yet. Will keep you posted.

Man this thread...and also I might add, this forum don't get as much action as I thought.

Edit...OK that was quick! Switched the phono cable back in that came with the 7.1 and A+ interconnects back out...night and day difference! the cable that came with the 7.1 kicked the A+ interconnects in the ass. I think I read that the 7.1 cable has a mix of silver and copper. Hmmmm, I thought phono cable was about the same as interconnects but I guess its different altogether.

[02audionoob]

That's interesting info. Any idea on the A+ cable's capacitance? I would assume the cable that came with the turntable is quite low in capacitance.

[poppachubby]

Hey noob did you know that Oracle is now using the 9cc arm on one of its tables? Must be a very good arm.


That arm is where I will probably end up if I make any more upgrades to me table. One of the best combos I have heard was the 9cc on an LP12. Sure, there are better arms out there but it seemed to match up really well.

If you ask me, that arm precedes Pro-Jects reputation with tables. Even people who hate PJ will bow to the 9cc.

[frenchmon]

That's interesting info. Any idea on the A+ cable's capacitance? I would assume the cable that came with the turntable is quite low in capacitance.

noob....this is the cable that got whipped by the 7.1 cable.

http://www.analysis-plus.com/images/OvalOne.1web.gif

In all fairness its not a phono cable as the 7.1 cable.

This is the cable im thinking of buying which is a phono cable.

http://www.analysis-plus.com/images/LowMassPhonsmall.jpg

But the site no where list the capacitance.
http://www.analysis-plus.com/prod_phonocable.html


I've contacted my dealer to ask if he can find out.

[frenchmon]

That arm is where I will probably end up if I make any more upgrades to me table. One of the best combos I have heard was the 9cc on an LP12. Sure, there are better arms out there but it seemed to match up really well.

If you ask me, that arm precedes Pro-Jects reputation with tables. Even people who hate PJ will bow to the 9cc.

Well the arm I have, the 9c is the same all but the head shell, and its a great arm. Using the same cart I had on the 2.1, I get so much more detail, and not as nearly the noise I did with the 2.1

[02audionoob]

Hey frenchmon...You wouldn't happen to have any component video cable laying around, would you? I have been wondering how they would do as phono interconnects but I can't try it out on my turntables because they have captive cables.

[frenchmon]

Hey frenchmon...You wouldn't happen to have any component video cable laying around, would you? I have been wondering how they would do as phono interconnects but I can't try it out on my turntables because they have captive cables.

Yes I do...I'll give it a shot.

[02audionoob]

Hey, frenchmon...new toy in the house...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3583/5827754238_7f3f78d4f4.jpg

[frenchmon]

Hey, frenchmon...new toy in the house...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3583/5827754238_7f3f78d4f4.jpg

oooweeeee! How much cleaner do they get compared by hand cleaning? Well I guess it cuts down on the labor....that alone will be worth the price. I was planing on getting a spin clean this month. ima cheap one.

[02audionoob]

oooweeeee! How much cleaner do they get compared by hand cleaning? Well I guess it cuts down on the labor....that alone will be worth the price. I was planing on getting a spin clean this month. ima cheap one.

I was already able to get my records really clean with my mini shop-vac and velvet-covered nozzle, but this does cut down on the labor. The VPI's vacuum dries the record in one turn. One drawback, though - It puts a little static on the record. Now I might need another toy to deal with that!

[frenchmon]

I was already able to get my records really clean with my mini shop-vac and velvet-covered nozzle, but this does cut down on the labor. The VPI's vacuum dries the record in one turn. One drawback, though - It puts a little static on the record. Now I might need another toy to deal with that!

Well I guess after you clean them with record machine, you can get a gun to zap them....that part might actually be fun.

[frenchmon]

This is what I sent my dealer concerning the cables.


.....can you get the capacitance of the oval one interconnect cable? Also I need the capacitance of the low mass oval phono cable. I cant seem to find it on their site. Pehaps you can get in touch with them and ask....also what would you charge for the low mass oval phono cable? Thanks.

this is the reply


Hi Byron,

I spoke with one of the owners, Mark Markel, about this. He told me that the desire for low capacitance as such is one of the most misunderstood ideas in audio. As he is a PhD I defer to his knowledge.

He told me that they design their cables for a 75 ohm impedance. One of their white papers, #981, http://www.analysis-plus.com/design_whitepaper.html explains this in detail.

This is really over my head....can you make any thing out of it noob? Or anybody who understand the jargon?

Any way...I asked my dealer if he can get some phono cable to try out before purchase.

[JoeE SP9]

What's any of that got to do with the capacitance of phono leads from a TT. MM cartridge manufacturers specify the ideal capacitive load for their cartridges. For MC cartridges AFAIK it's not important.

Shunt capacitance is mentioned in the White paper as part of Z. If I understand correctly a stable Z is what Analysis Plus desires.

There are plenty of companies making tonearm cables that publish their specs for capacitance,

Can you try before you buy>

[frenchmon]

What's any of that got to do with the capacitance of phono leads from a TT. MM cartridge manufacturers specify the ideal capacitive load for their cartridges. For MC cartridges AFAIK it's not important.

Shunt capacitance is mentioned in the White paper as part of Z. If I understand correctly a stable Z is what Analysis Plus desires.

There are plenty of companies making tonearm cables that publish their specs for capacitance,

Can you try before you buy>

I've sent my dealer a email asking if he can get one other wise im not buying. I had a chance to listen to the interconnects before I bought, but he does not stock the phono cable. He needs to get one other wise im not buying.

I cant see what any of that has to do with capacitance, but im not really as astute as if I am in the know. So I appreciate you reading it Joe and giving you opinion.

[atomicAdam]

This is what I sent my dealer concerning the cables.

this is the reply

This is really over my head....can you make any thing out of it noob? Or anybody who understand the jargon?

Any way...I asked my dealer if he can get some phono cable to try out before purchase.

OK - so obviously I'm not a cable designer nor have I any real experts in engineering and electricity.

But with that said I'd like to say two things about the Analysis plus cables.

1) This is really just a general comment about audio and systems and our individual component approach to audio when it should be a holistic systems approach and users desire. I'm in this hobby cause I love music and I want it to sound good. To me what sounds good might not sound good to another person. So whose to say who is correct. And we all know that line of argument. But to expand - what is the point of measurements when a not so 'perfect' cable might sound better to you than a perfect one. And to expand on the singular component reviewed at a time issue, we all now that one piece of gear will sound different, sometimes minor, some times major differences, in different system. So who f'ing cares how it was made or how you liked it. It really should be about what the cable or component did in the system and the type of system you have.

2) The first part of the white paper talks about how as the Frequency increases skin depth becomes an issue. So they talk about the skin depth of a frequency and how the whole center of a round cable isn't being used. So they cut it out? Like, hey, at 20Khz this isn't being used, well lets get rid of it? WTF? What about at 10Hz? Is it being used then. And what does a spectrum graph look like. I mean - if 10Hz and 20Khz are passed at the same time - what are the skin effects than? Does the 20Khz ride closer to the skin while the 10Hz stays closer to the center? If this is the case, WTF take the center out? If this isn't - why force the 10Hz into a cable with not natural area for it to travel through. Seems illogical to me, but maybe someone can pony up a reason.

[frenchmon]

OK - so obviously I'm not a cable designer nor have I any real experts in engineering and electricity.

But with that said I'd like to say two things about the Analysis plus cables.

1) This is really just a general comment about audio and systems and our individual component approach to audio when it should be a holistic systems approach and users desire. I'm in this hobby cause I love music and I want it to sound good. To me what sounds good might not sound good to another person. So whose to say who is correct. And we all know that line of argument. But to expand - what is the point of measurements when a not so 'perfect' cable might sound better to you than a perfect one. And to expand on the singular component reviewed at a time issue, we all now that one piece of gear will sound different, sometimes minor, some times major differences, in different system. So who f'ing cares how it was made or how you liked it. It really should be about what the cable or component did in the system and the type of system you have.

2) The first part of the white paper talks about how as the Frequency increases skin depth becomes an issue. So they talk about the skin depth of a frequency and how the whole center of a round cable isn't being used. So they cut it out? Like, hey, at 20Khz this isn't being used, well lets get rid of it? WTF? What about at 10Hz? Is it being used then. And what does a spectrum graph look like. I mean - if 10Hz and 20Khz are passed at the same time - what are the skin effects than? Does the 20Khz ride closer to the skin while the 10Hz stays closer to the center? If this is the case, WTF take the center out? If this isn't - why force the 10Hz into a cable with not natural area for it to travel through. Seems illogical to me, but maybe someone can pony up a reason.

Hey I agree with you Adam....While these guys are technical engineers with PHD's who have a different way of designing cable, most of that stuff goes over every one's head any way. I didn't buy the cable based on their studies, but based on price and performance. If I can hear a A+ phono cable I might purchase that as well. I do like their cable tho and will be moving up the line at some point.

What would really be cool is if you could get in touch with them...ask them a few questions about their approach to cable design, and then have them send you a pair to review. That would really be cool if you could pull that off. :smile5:

[atomicAdam]

Hey Frechmon -

I'll get in contact with them. I've got to finish up a bunch of stuff currently on my plate - but I'll keep this in mind. There prices on their top of the line stuff in pretty close to the last couple cables I've had in.

[02audionoob]

This is what I sent my dealer concerning the cables.



this is the reply



This is really over my head....can you make any thing out of it noob? Or anybody who understand the jargon?

Any way...I asked my dealer if he can get some phono cable to try out before purchase.

The reason I brought up capacitance is: I understood you took A+ cables not specifically designated for phono use and used them for a phono signal. Is that right? Since you have a MM cartridge...and as Joe noted capacitance is a significant issue with MM cartridges...I was thinking maybe the capacitance in the A+ cables was higher than the Music Hall cables. That might have explained why the A+ cables didn't perform as well as the Music Hall cables.

Then the reason I brought up the idea of video cable is: It is designed to 75 Ohm (just like we now know the A+ cable is). 75 Ohm cable is of fairly low capacitance. According to Blue Jeans cable, 75 Ohm design generally locks capacitance in at 16 to 21 pF/ft. That's not as low as the cables I've seen specifically noted as low capacitance, but still pretty low. BJC says audio cable capacitance is typically 25 to 31 pF/ft. I don't think low capacitance is automatically good...in other words, lower isn't necessarily better...it's more a matter of optimum.

We know higher capacitance can have a detrimental effect on a phono signal, but...I used Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 from my DAC to my integrated and thought it didn't perform as well as some cables I paid $8 for. Video cables I paid about $15 for were noticeably better, but still not as good as the $8 cables. My Straight Wire cables were clearly better than all of them, improving even further on the same characteristics the $8 cables improved on...that being the smoothness of the highs.

I don't know much about cable, but I was hoping to learn something from finding out the capacitance to the A+ cable. In what way did the A+ cables change the sound of your MMF-7.1/2M Red combo?

[frenchmon]

Hey Frechmon -

I'll get in contact with them. I've got to finish up a bunch of stuff currently on my plate - but I'll keep this in mind. There prices on their top of the line stuff in pretty close to the last couple cables I've had in.

That will be great Adam...keep me posted.

[frenchmon]

The reason I brought up capacitance is: I understood you took A+ cables not specifically designated for phono use and used them for a phono signal. Is that right? Since you have a MM cartridge...and as Joe noted capacitance is a significant issue with MM cartridges...I was thinking maybe the capacitance in the A+ cables was higher than the Music Hall cables. That might have explained why the A+ cables didn't perform as well as the Music Hall cables.

Then the reason I brought up the idea of video cable is: It is designed to 75 Ohm (just like we now know the A+ cable is). 75 Ohm cable is of fairly low capacitance. According to Blue Jeans cable, 75 Ohm design generally locks capacitance in at 16 to 21 pF/ft. That's not as low as the cables I've seen specifically noted as low capacitance, but still pretty low. BJC says audio cable capacitance is typically 25 to 31 pF/ft. I don't think low capacitance is automatically good...in other words, lower isn't necessarily better...it's more a matter of optimum.

We know higher capacitance can have a detrimental effect on a phono signal, but...I used Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 from my DAC to my integrated and thought it didn't perform as well as some cables I paid $8 for. Video cables I paid about $15 for were noticeably better, but still not as good as the $8 cables. My Straight Wire cables were clearly better than all of them, improving even further on the same characteristics the $8 cables improved on...that being the smoothness of the highs.

I don't know much about cable, but I was hoping to learn something from finding out the capacitance to the A+ cable. In what way did the A+ cables change the sound of your MMF-7.1/2M Red combo?



There was a big difference in the MMF-7.1 cable and the A+ interconnects. The A+ was not as detailed and had really fast decay in the upper end sounds when used as a phono cable. Bass was not as full either. THe overal sound was not as loud as with the 7.1 cable. I did read some where that the cable offered with the MMF-7.1 was a high end cable with strands of silver and copper mix. The A+ Oval One entry level interconnects is only copper I believe. Its a good interconnect cable that works well with the Rotel and XRAY

I still have not had time to dig out my video cable to try...maybe this weekend. The MMF-7.1 cable is not bad, I just thought I could improve up on it. I've yet to hear back from my dealer after asking him to see if they could send him a demo A+ phono cable to try seeing he is a dealer. According to the A+ site it constructed of pure silver over a stabilizing strand of oxygen-free copper so it should at least be on par if not, then better than the MMF-7.1's phono cable. That cable list for $415 dollars but I can get it for about half that price but I would love to take a listen first.