HDMI Cable Brands Don't Matter

[Smokey]

According to PC magazine testing, for the vast majority of HDTV owners, a $5 HDMI cable will provide the same performance as a $100 one.

They tested several different HDMI cables and found absolutely no effective difference between a no-name $3 HDMI cable you can order from Amazon.com and a $120 Monster cable you buy at a brick-and-mortar electronics store.

They put the cables through three different tests: a technical quality evaluation, a blind video test, and a 3D-support test. All HDMI cables passed all three tests with flying colors.

They concluded that as long as HDMI cable is 1.4 compliant (10.2 Gbps bandwidth) and it is less than 6 feet, they didn't see any performance differences between HDMI cables.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385272,00.asp

[Luvin Da Blues]

I admit, I didn't read the article (I'm at work). Did they touch on build quality? They all may be fine in a bench test senario but the cheapos probably wouldn't stand up to very much twisting, turning and abuse.

Love my BJ cables.

[Hyfi]

Love my BJ cables.


Luvin Da Blue Jeans

Good questions. Same goes for the old argument of Interconnects. Yes every el cheapo cable will send a signal from one end to the other. But how good is the connection and build.

[Woochifer]

Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent. Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables. But, that might simply be a case of the signal losing integrity at 15' versus 20'.

[Smokey]

Good questions. Same goes for the old argument of Interconnects. Yes every el cheapo cable will send a signal from one end to the other. But how good is the connection and build.

But as oppose to old argument of Interconnects, the HDMI signal is digital which mean the signal will either get thru or it won't. They did mentioned that higher priced HDMI cables were better quality build than cheaper ones (like having lower gauage center wires), but they said as long as signal is passed, it is irrelevent.


Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables.

That is exactly right. They say if HDMI cable is going to be over 10 feet, then should consider higher quality cables as they provide better shielding, lower guage wires and higher bandwidth.

[jjp735i]

I usualy don't post here, but I have to chime in. I purchased a 25ft HDMI thru Amazon for $1.76 and have been using it for months on my HD projector. I don't see any difference from this cable to the smaller 3 foot $23.00 cable I also use.

Although I still beleive there is a big difference in speaker wire and component cables, I don't think HDMI cables from 2 dollars to hunderds, which I've seen make that much difference.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Luvin Da Blue Jeans

Right now I'm luvin' dis.....

[Hyfi]

Right now I'm luvin' dis.....

What is that? An imitation Harley?

I can't tell what it is, looks smooth.

[Luvin Da Blues]

What is that? An imitation Harley?

I can't tell what it is, looks smooth.

Suzuki Intruder 1500 LC, I can't afford a real HD right now with my audio habit an' all Ya know.

[frenchmon]

Suzuki Intruder 1500 LC, I can't afford a real HD right now with my audio habit an' all Ya know.

I feel ya...with my daughters tuition in private school I can't afford nothin. At least your poverty is self imposed..mine is wife imposed.

[frenchmon]

Well I guess I wont be buying the Pangea Audio - HD-24PC - HDMI Cable - 4% Silver Plated at $69. per 2m and will be gettting some old cheap Mediabridge Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet - Category 2 Certified - Supports 3D & Audio Return Channel [Latest HDMI Version Available] - (6 Feet)
by Mediabridge at $10. per 2m.


Thanks for the information.

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, if our friend has the Pangea in stock maybe you can do a comparison.

When I first got a processor with HDMI I didn't really want to spend $100+ so I bought what I thought would be reasonable, a $40.00 Belkin. My experience was not what they claim in the article. Not to go into the whole long story I had a audio issue with my AV8003 that gave me great buyer's remorse. After trying a variety of things to resolve the problem I switched the HDMI cable as a last resort. I maybe should have tried a cheaper or similar as well to see what happened but I tried a Tributaries. It cured the problem so that's what I stuck with. I thought there was a video improvement but can't be sure but the better cable definitely cured an audio issue, significantly improving the sound quality.

If all there is to digital, delivering the signal, how does Esoteric get away with selling a mere reclocking unit for $13k? Those who think digital is only off or on are mistaken.

[frenchmon]

How long is your HDMI cable?

[Hyfi]

Suzuki Intruder 1500 LC, I can't afford a real HD right now with my audio habit an' all Ya know.

Wow! Do they look different now. Man you just stirred up some emotions for me.

After riding my beloved '75 Norton Commando for many years, I got tired of dealing with the Lucas Electronics that were temper-mental. I sold it to the owner of a bike dealership and bought a brand new original Intruder 750 as below in black.

I was riding it for about an hour each morning before going to work to break it in and get used to it. Shaft Drive is soooo different than a slapping chain. Anyway, day 6 of owning my first ever New bike, I rode for my hour and as I was preparing to turn into the lot of where I worked, I got plowed from behind by an uninsured-uninspected free loader female from North Philly.

The cops impounded my bike instead of letting my co workers put it in the shop right there because the cops were in bed with the towing impound company and it cost me to get it out. They left the woman drive away and continue to drive that vehicle.

Since I got run down by a drunk driver at 7am back in '79 on my old 250 BSA, then number two, that was the last day I ever rode and boy do I miss it. Just not real safe anymore in congested areas. Be very careful and enjoy!

http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/Intruder/VS750-Intruder/1986_VS750GL_blk_500.jpg

[Luvin Da Blues]

Wow! Do they look different now. Man you just stirred up some emotions for me.

After riding my beloved '75 Norton Commando for many years, I got tired of dealing with the Lucas Electronics that were temper-mental. I sold it to the owner of a bike dealership and bought a brand new original Intruder 750 as below in black.

I was riding it for about an hour each morning before going to work to break it in and get used to it. Shaft Drive is soooo different than a slapping chain. Anyway, day 6 of owning my first ever New bike, I rode for my hour and as I was preparing to turn into the lot of where I worked, I got plowed from behind by an uninsured-uninspected free loader female from North Philly.

The cops impounded my bike instead of letting my co workers put it in the shop right there because the cops were in bed with the towing impound company and it cost me to get it out. They left the woman drive away and continue to drive that vehicle.

Since I got run down by a drunk driver at 7am back in '79 on my old 250 BSA, then number two, that was the last day I ever rode and boy do I miss it. Just not real safe anymore in congested areas. Be very careful and enjoy!

http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/Intruder/VS750-Intruder/1986_VS750GL_blk_500.jpg


I guess we're kinda hijackin' this thread.

They sure have gotten bigger. I stand 6'4" so I need a large frame size which the Suzi has one of the largest available. It sucks to be hit like that, especially by one without insurance. No accounting for bad drivers so one really has to be aware and always have an escape route available.

Right now I just ride to and from work (all highway cruising) and long slow rides in the evening and weekends. I try to stay out of traffic areas as much as I can. Riding safe is good for my old bones.

Nuthin' like riding on a nice sunny spring day. :thumbsup:

Now back to our regular programing.......

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent. Problems occur over longer distances, and that's where you do see some variation between cables. But, that might simply be a case of the signal losing integrity at 15' versus 20'.

Jitter increases, and signal strength is reduced once past 15' without a signal amplifier in the chain.

I stated that HDMI brands don't matter three years ago when debating with Peabody on the issue. He stated that one HDMI cable sounded better to his ears than another. I said that cannot be possible because there is no conversion taking place before the DAC in the HDMI cable, so no difference were possible. When it comes to video, either the cable could pass the signal, or it would fail to pass the signal. That is it - as there is no "signal quality" improvements to worry about with HDMI.

[Woochifer]

Jitter increases, and signal strength is reduced once past 15' without a signal amplifier in the chain.

I stated that HDMI brands don't matter three years ago when debating with Peabody on the issue. He stated that one HDMI cable sounded better to his ears than another. I said that cannot be possible because there is no conversion taking place before the DAC in the HDMI cable, so no difference were possible. When it comes to video, either the cable could pass the signal, or it would fail to pass the signal. That is it - as there is no "signal quality" improvements to worry about with HDMI.

That's why I've never liked HDMI turning into the default digital AV standard. The connector design sucks, and performance begins to breakdown well within normal distances. It just reeks of design-by-committee, with little attention to how it performs in real world applications. There are so many more robust connection standards out there for carrying digital data, why the HT industry standardized around HDMI is just puzzling (aside from the HDCP considerations).

Tests I've seen indicate that certain cables will indeed show signal loss sooner than others, and the expensive cables weren't always the best performers. But, that still doesn't make up for the fundamental flaw of HDMI's poor performance over long runs. In my old configuration, I was using a 25' S-vid cable connected to the receiver. At that distance, there was no issue with S-vid or component video, and installers would routinely use much longer runs with analog cables. Those distances are far from routine with HDMI. In my current configuration, I am using a 15' HDMI cable along with an Oppo HM-31 switchbox (which has an equalizer and signal booster), and fortunately, I've not had any issues.

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, my HDMI is only 2 meters.

[frenchmon]

Oh...you are driving it with the LINN...sorry I thought you where driving it with the CJ gear. How do you have your speakers connected? Are you using a splitter or switch for both systems?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If all there is to digital, delivering the signal, how does Esoteric get away with selling a mere reclocking unit for $13k? Those who think digital is only off or on are mistaken.

No they are not mistaken, and test after test has proven this. HDMI either works, or it does not. The cable just passes the signal from the transmitter to the receiver, and does nothing to the signal in the process. Esoteric can get away with anything they want via marketing BS, but it does not change reality. A reclocking unit will only be beneficial if the cable lengths are very long, which can cause jitter to increase with PCM signals. Dts MA and DTHD are not effected by jitter, they are packet based. Since most High Rez recordings on Bluray utilize Dts-HD Master audio and Dolby TruHD as audio carriers, a reclocking device is not needed. SACD is also not susceptible to jitter, so a reclocking device is not needed for that format as well.

[Mr Peabody]

I have HDMI going from my satelite receiver & BDP to the processor, RCA from processor to amp. I have two sets of speaker cables, one running from the CJ amps and another from the Linn. I hook and unhook at the back of the speaker using banana plugs depending on which system I want to use.

I should have been more clear, Esoteric reclocks for CD, not sure about SACD or HDMI. However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

[Smokey]

However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

Maybe you might had a bad cable. Cable failure seem to be greater with HDMI than other type of cables.

[Mr Peabody]

The cable with the issue could have a flaw but it delivered the video and an audio signal, the audio signal was just not good quality. The same cable works fine for BDP to a display. My processor for some reason seems to need a higher quality cable. Although the Belkin had the current spec it still may not have been as high speed as the Tributaries, a possible reason for difference.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have HDMI going from my satelite receiver & BDP to the processor, RCA from processor to amp. I have two sets of speaker cables, one running from the CJ amps and another from the Linn. I hook and unhook at the back of the speaker using banana plugs depending on which system I want to use.

I should have been more clear, Esoteric reclocks for CD, not sure about SACD or HDMI. However, save your breath because I clearly had an issue with HDMI cables and nothing you can say will change that reality.

Having a "issue" with a HDMI cable, and advancing the arguement that one cable sounds better than the other are two different things. If you are over taxing the cable(using a HDMI 1.2 cable with 3D or 4K) it will have a problem. If the cable is poorly made, and does not meet HDMI specifications, then it will have a problem. But if you use a certified high speed HDMI cable, you should have zero issues with anything that passes through it.

If you understand how HDMI cables work, there is no way in hell you can make the argument that one HDMI cable sounds better than another. One will not deliver a better picture than another, it just does not work that way. Now the marketing people have a job. They have to get you to part with your money, so they make claims that are not supported by reality, and people believe them. This is why Esoteric, Monster, and ton's of other companies make the claims they do about their cables. As long as the cable meets HDMI specifications, and now passes HDMI certification, then that cable will not add or take anything away from the video or the audio.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The cable with the issue could have a flaw but it delivered the video and an audio signal, the audio signal was just not good quality. The same cable works fine for BDP to a display. My processor for some reason seems to need a higher quality cable. Although the Belkin had the current spec it still may not have been as high speed as the Tributaries, a possible reason for difference.

I think this is all in your head Peabody. HDMI cables do not alter the sound in any way as it passes through the cable. HDMI is not like co-axial or RCA cables. Unless you were using the cable on a very long run, or that it was not certified by HDMI, the cable will sound like any other cable. The processor has nothing to do with it, as yours is no special than anyone elses. If you are going to make that argument, then my processor would surely require an uber expensive, ultra special HDMI cable to pass its signals. I use a HDMI certified and tested ultra high speed cable from monoprice since it is passing 3D and 4K signals. The cable does not care what processor is in front of it, as long as the HDMI transmitter is functioning and the HDMI receiver on the other end is functioning, a processor is a processor to the cable.

As long as you choose the right cable for what you are trying to pass through it, the Belkin is no different than the tributary in this respect. A 1.3 rated cable is a 1.3 rated cable, no matter who it comes from.

Since Bluray predominately uses the lossless codecs, this further erodes your argument. The lossless codecs signals travel in packets, so they are impervious to jitter. Any cable rated 1.3 would easily pass the signal without degradation.

When it comes to Bluray, a 1.3 rated cable is a 1.3 rated cable, no matter what manufacturer makes it.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Maybe you might had a bad cable. Cable failure seem to be greater with HDMI than other type of cables.

When you think of it, HDMI cables are more sophisticated than any other cable, maybe that is why they seem to fail more often.

[Mr Peabody]

Terry, if it is in my head at least something is there which is more than I can say for you. It would be nice if any one else on this thread had any real world experience on this issue such as myself, instead of parroting the internet as you do. All of your bully tactics, slander, hot air, BS and disrespect doesn't change anything.

[GMichael]

Great! Now I'm missing my last HD.
Nice ride LDB. That 1500 looks fat.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Terry, if it is in my head at least something is there which is more than I can say for you. It would be nice if any one else on this thread had any real world experience on this issue such as myself, instead of parroting the internet as you do. All of your bully tactics, slander, hot air, BS and disrespect doesn't change anything.

Peahead, you are caught in a web of your own Bull crap. Perhaps you need a time out in a corner. Unfortunately for us, you will use the time to think up another not technically possible lie to convince yourself that you are not telling a lie.

Some of us know better NOT to take your senseless BS as fact. Lean about how HDMI works, it will keep your ass out of a crack.

[IBSTORMIN]

According to PC magazine testing, for the vast majority of HDTV owners, a $5 HDMI cable will provide the same performance as a $100 one.

They tested several different HDMI cables and found absolutely no effective difference between a no-name $3 HDMI cable you can order from Amazon.com and a $120 Monster cable you buy at a brick-and-mortar electronics store.

Comparing cheap crap to expensive crap, of course it is going to sound the same. There are alot of better cables, priced less than Monster. Monster is the Bose of cables. Marketing is all they do well.



Those who think digital is only off or on are mistaken.

Mr P, didn't you post some good reading saying servers are a better way to go than a conventional CD? Part of the reason was the signal that goes down the digital cable has to be re-clocked at the other end and the quality of the digital cable and the accuracy of the clock make a big difference in sound quality? That would apply here also, would it not?

[Mr Peabody]

HDMI uses an encoding method TMDS which is supposed to minimize or decrease the possibility of errors but decrease is not eliminating. TMDS sends an inverse signal which the difference of the two signals are compared when received. Any time something has to compensate there's always a chance of error. I don't see why any one would pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a TV and source without at least doing a comparison of cables for themselves. It's foolish especially when almost every retailer allows a 30 day return and if your lucky enough to have a high end shop they should have loaners on hand to try.

[IBSTORMIN]

TMDS sends an inverse signal which the difference of the two signals are compared when received. Any time something has to compensate there's always a chance of error.

Like a truly balanced signal works to reduce distortion over a standard RCA. Better but not perfect? Also, if the cable is distorting the signal, it it going to distort both signals, I would think.

[Jack in Wilmington]

HDMI uses an encoding method TMDS which is supposed to minimize or decrease the possibility of errors but decrease is not eliminating. TMDS sends an inverse signal which the difference of the two signals are compared when received. Any time something has to compensate there's always a chance of error. I don't see why any one would pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a TV and source without at least doing a comparison of cables for themselves. It's foolish especially when almost every retailer allows a 30 day return and if your lucky enough to have a high end shop they should have loaners on hand to try.

You're right Mr. P. My dealer has cables you can take home and test out just like any other piece of gear. When my DAC comes in he wants me to try out a Tributaries and a Transparent toslink cable to see which I like better.

[IBSTORMIN]

When my DAC comes in he wants me to try out a Tributaries and a Transparent toslink cable to see which I like better.

If you can hook it up with a digital cable instead of optical I would highly recommend it. You will lose some sound quality in the conversion to optical and back again, although some will not notice a difference.

[IBSTORMIN]

Unfortunately, HDMI is a badly designed connector. Even the best made cables cannot make up for a flawed design. I will agree that the cable brand is irrelevant to an extent.

HDMI was not designed with sound quality in mind, it was made to be convenient for the average consumer. It has numerous very thin wires in a small cable attached to a small connector, so it bends easy and is not heavy. This is why, as someone else said, they fail alot. Nobody can make great improvements to a poor design which is limited, like you said, by the small size of it's connector. When I first saw it I couldn't believe we were going to be sending high quality sound AND video through such a small cable. What were they thinking?!!

[Feanor]

HDMI was not designed with sound quality in mind, it was made to be convenient for the average consumer. It has numerous very thin wires in a small cable attached to a small connector, so it bends easy and is not heavy. This is why, as someone else said, they fail alot. Nobody can make great improvements to a poor design which is limited, like you said, by the small size of it's connector. When I first saw it I couldn't believe we were going to be sending high quality sound AND video through such a small cable. What were they thinking?!!
Experts like Wooch or Sir Terrence would likely agree that HDMI wasn't designed to convey analog signals or even a continuous bit streams like a S/PDIF signal; (they'll correct me if I'm wrong). It was designed, (maybe not optimally), to carry structured data. In this respect it is like USB or CAT 5e or 6 cable.

In case of data, the receiving systems is properly supposed to detect transmission failures and compensate in some way, e.g. request that the data be resent. Thus data cables either work or they don't.

[frenchmon]

Experts like Wooch or Sir Terrence would likely agree that HDMI wasn't designed to convey analog signals or even a continuous bit streams like a S/PDIF signal; (they'll correct me if I'm wrong). It was designed, (maybe not optimally), to carry structured data. In this respect it is like USB or CAT 5e or 6 cable.

In case of data, the receiving systems is properly supposed to detect transmission failures and compensate in some way, e.g. request that the data be resent. Thus data cables either work or they don't.

It has error correction code that makes the data redundant so as to free the error. This code is an industry standard.

[Smokey]

Comparing cheap crap to expensive crap, of course it is going to sound the same. There are alot of better cables, priced less than Monster.

If you go to local retail stores like Bestbuy, Walmart or Radioshack, inflated priced cables is all the consumer is going to see. On their web sites, they also carry much cheaper HDMI, USB or VGA cables. But they never carry them in their stores. What they have in stores are inflated cables like Monster or Rocketfish.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

HDMI uses an encoding method TMDS which is supposed to minimize or decrease the possibility of errors but decrease is not eliminating. TMDS sends an inverse signal which the difference of the two signals are compared when received. Any time something has to compensate there's always a chance of error. I don't see why any one would pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a TV and source without at least doing a comparison of cables for themselves. It's foolish especially when almost every retailer allows a 30 day return and if your lucky enough to have a high end shop they should have loaners on hand to try.

Transition Minimized Differential Signaling does not do what you describe at all. To quote Wikipedia:

Transition Minimized Differential Signaling (TMDS) on HDMI carries video, audio and auxiliary data via one of three modes, called the Video Data Period, the Data Island Period and the Control Period.[75] During the Video Data Period, the pixels of an active video line are transmitted.[75] During the Data Island period (which occurs during the horizontal and vertical blanking intervals), audio and auxiliary data are transmitted within a series of packets.[75] The Control Period occurs between Video and Data Island periods.[75]
Both HDMI and DVI use TMDS to send 10-bit characters that are encoded using 8b/10b encoding for the Video Data Period and 2b/10b encoding for the Control Period. HDMI adds the ability to send audio and auxiliary data using 4b/10b encoding for the Data Island Period.[75] Each Data Island Period is 32 pixels in size and contains a 32-bit Packet Header, which includes 8 bits of BCH ECC parity data for error correction and describes the contents of the packet.[76] Each Packet contains four subpackets, and each subpacket is 64 bits in size, including 8 bits of BCH ECC parity data, allowing for each Packet to carry up to 224 bits of audio data.[77] Each Data Island Period can contain up to 18 Packets.[78] Seven of the 15 Packet types described in the HDMI 1.3a specifications deal with audio data, while the other 8 types deal with auxiliary data.[76] Among these are the General Control Packet and the Gamut Metadata Packet. The General Control Packet carries information on AVMUTE (which mutes the audio during changes that may cause audio noise) and Color Depth (which sends the bit depth of the current video stream and is required for Deep Color).[79][80] The Gamut Metadata Packet carries information on the color space being used for the current video stream and is required for xvYCC.

There is no error correction with HDMI. Since the data travels in packets, it is not subject to errors like bit streamed data is. There is TERC4 coding used at source , which is error reduction coding , intended to reduce the likelihood of errors , but this is not error correction per se. There are some ECC codes in the Data but as there is no facility for re-transmission these are merely a flag for bad data and are not used for correction as such.

I hate it when people talk about things they know nothing about. Peahead does not know dog poop about HDMI, and it is pretty obvious.

[frenchmon]

delete

[frenchmon]

delete

[Mr Peabody]

Any one can change Wikipedia. It's not the reference source for information on any subject. I got my information from the website "How Stuff Works" Terry, just because you post a different website doesn't illustrate your knowledge of anything except you can pick a different link from a Google search so don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. Obviously, this system isn't fool proof or it would hold up over longer runs.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Any one can change Wikipedia. It's not the reference source for information on any subject. I got my information from the website "How Stuff Works" Terry, just because you post a different website doesn't illustrate your knowledge of anything except you can pick a different link from a Google search so don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. Obviously, this system isn't fool proof or it would hold up over longer runs.

Peabrain, nobody is patting themselves, I am correcting you. I used Wikipedia because it happens to be correct in this case, and I didn't have time to write out a full explanation. If you got your information from "How stuff works", then you picked a poor source. TMDS is not designed for error correction, but error prevention. TERC4 coding is not an error correction encoding, it prevents errors from occurring in the first place. If the signals does have an error, either the handshake will fail, or the signal will lose lock and go out of sync. If there was error correction in TDMS, then there would be no such thing as lip sync issues, and no need of lip sync compensation found in high end processors.

How stuff works uses simplified explanations for peaheads like you that do not have the technical expertise to understand a more complex description of the process. I read the explanation on How stuff works, and nowhere in the explanation does it mention error correction. Their explanation says the encoding step helps PROTECT the signal quality as it travels down the cable. Protection is not correction, it is prevention in the first place.

You are such an egghead, that you can not even comprehend a simplified explanation of the process.

[Mr Peabody]

From "How Stuff Works"

One of the common misperceptions about HDMI is that the digital signal is innately superior to an analog signal. In some people's minds, the lack of analog-to-digital conversion means that the signal is in a pure, undamaged state when it reaches the HDTV set. It's easy to imagine a high-definition, digital signal traveling straight from an HD-DVD player to an HDTV. But signal transmission via HDTV does require an encoding step.

HDMI uses transition minimized differential signaling (TMDS) to move information from one place to another. TMDS is a way of encoding the signal to protect it from degrading as it travels down the length of the cable. Here's what happens:

The sending device, such as an HD-DVD player, encodes the signal to reduce the number of transitions between one (on) and zero (off). Think of each transition as a sharp drop-off -- as the signal travels, this drop-off can begin to wear away, degrading the signal. The encoding step helps protect signal quality by reducing the number of chances for the signal to degrade.
One of the cables in the twisted pair carries the signal itself. The other carries an inverse copy of the signal.
The receiving device, such as an HDTV, decodes the signal. It measures the differential, or the difference between the signal and its inverse. It uses this information to compensate for any loss of signal along the way.

Compensate or correction, you base your whole rant on a synonym. Not my fault if the website description doesn't meet your standard. Interesting how you strut because you found a broader definition but you've yet to express any real world experience which is something that always lacks in your posts. Just like a poser.

[Smokey]

From "How Stuff Works"

One of the cables in the twisted pair carries the signal itself. The other carries an inverse copy of the signal.
The receiving device, such as an HDTV, decodes the signal. It measures the differential, or the difference between the signal and its inverse. It uses this information to compensate for any loss of signal along the way.

Is article author talking about HDMI cables or twisted pair. Looks like there is a mixup here.

[IBSTORMIN]

I remember when CD's first came out, everyone, salesmen especially but also "Experts" said that because it was digital, and it was either on or off, you should pick your player based on features, because they all sound the same. We found out that was not true. We found out even transports can sound different with the same DAC. This is sounding like the same argument all over again for the newest technology out there. We have to form our own opinion, not be led by the "experts".

[frenchmon]

Yeah...I've been doing a little reading about the standard and am not convinced that HDMI cable is different. I work in IT so I understand the jargon. But the proof is in the seeing and hearing...I've ask Peabody if I could bring over a cheap HDMI and compair it to his more expensive cable but have yet to hear back from him. I have also reached out to my audio dealer to see if he has any loner HDMI cables so I can compare with my cheaper cables as well and am waiting for a reply. When I read the technical specs, it all leads me to say there is no difference, but I want to still have the shoot out.

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, you are welcome to bring a cable over. Whatever the out come you will know but it wouldn't change anyone's mind here nor would it change my actual experience. The problem I had is well documented on this forum in the AV8003 thread long before this thread ever started.

[Mr Peabody]

The point in trying different HDMI, if I had not heard the AV8003 before I bought it the first cable would have me experiencing less than optimum performance because I would not have known any different. I knew the AV8003 in my home was less stellar than what I had heard in the store. The HDMI was not the first attempt to fix the issue, in fact, it was the last of several. No matter what the difference in HDMI cables is from, build quality or whatever, that still is a difference.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Compensate or correction, you base your whole rant on a synonym. Not my fault if the website description doesn't meet your standard. Interesting how you strut because you found a broader definition but you've yet to express any real world experience which is something that always lacks in your posts. Just like a poser.

I didn't base my rant on a synonym, I based it on the fact that you don't know what you are talking about. There is a difference.

Since compensation is quite different than correction, it is important to get it right. You had it wrong, and that is something you need to face instead of trying to save face. TERC4 prevents the error from occurring, correction fixes the error after it has occurred. If you cannot understand the difference, you have a problem.

When somebody asks me my real world experience, I will share it with them. Nobody asked me, so I didn't share any. Since I understand that build quality, using shorter lengths(or longer lengths with signal amps), using a cable with the proper rating for what I am using it on are the only things you need to know, their ain't much to talk about with HDMI cable. I also understand there is nothing in the cable that would negatively effect what passes through it, so sonic characteristics play no role in which cable I will choose.

The definition I chose is not only more broad, but more precise. Unlike yourself(who talks about his supposed real world experience however impossible it is) I go to workshops and conferences on AV technology. I could have easily wrote out what Wikipedia stated(different wording), but time did not allow that.

The way HDMI works prevents one cable from sounding different or better than another. TERC4 prevents the signal from being degraded within the cable, so the only way something will sound bad is if it is being overloaded, or it is not a true HDMI certified cable. The only thing that distinguishes one cable from another, is the quality of its construction, and its speed rating. That is it. One does not offer a better sonic picture than another, it either follows HDMI spec's and works, or it does not follow spec's and it does not work or overloads. The same goes for the video that passes through it.

I told you this before when you first brought this issue up. I even posted links that supported what I stated. Apparently your memory is so bad you forgot these details.

[GMichael]

Is article author talking about HDMI cables or twisted pair. Looks like there is a mixup here.

I don't have a twisted pair. Mine hang straight down.

(well, maybe the hang a little to the left)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

i don't have a twisted pair. Mine hang straight down.

(well, maybe the hang a little to the left)

tmi, tmi, tmi,tmi, tmi, tmi,tmi, tmi, tmi,tmi, tmi, tmi,tmi, tmi, tmi,tmi, tmi, tmi.......

[skydog2112]

I guess we're kinda hijackin' this thread.

They sure have gotten bigger. I stand 6'4" so I need a large frame size which the Suzi has one of the largest available. It sucks to be hit like that, especially by one without insurance. No accounting for bad drivers so one really has to be aware and always have an escape route available.

Right now I just ride to and from work (all highway cruising) and long slow rides in the evening and weekends. I try to stay out of traffic areas as much as I can. Riding safe is good for my old bones.

Nuthin' like riding on a nice sunny spring day. :thumbsup:

Now back to our regular programing.......

Sorry one last thing on bikes,people just don't seem to respect them anymore.I remember in the '70s other drivers sort of backed off from bikes,not anymore.You have to have eyes in the back of your head now when riding a bike.I had to sell my Virago,I could not take the chance of getting hit by someone with no insurane or money and maybe killing me or not being able to work again.I almost got hit three times in one day and that was it for me.Be very careful my friend,Good looking bike too.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Sorry one last thing on bikes,people just don't seem to respect them anymore.I remember in the '70s other drivers sort of backed off from bikes,not anymore.You have to have eyes in the back of your head now when riding a bike.I had to sell my Virago,I could not take the chance of getting hit by someone with no insurane or money and maybe killing me or not being able to work again.I almost got hit three times in one day and that was it for me.Be very careful my friend,Good looking bike too.

I hear you. Fortunatley in British Columbia we have 'no fault' governmant insurance so I'm covered that way.