Turn on your TV!!!! Bin Laden Dead!!!!

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Just heard that it appears American miltary forces have killed Osama Bin Laden and have his body in custody. Stay Tuned to your favorite news outlet. President Obama is about to speak on the matter. What a time we live in. I am excited to here this news but a bit dazed and confused with the targeted Nato attacks in Libya and how personal they seem to be. Uprisings in the Mideast only add to the air of optimism. Wow.

[RGA]

Well they finally got that bastard. :thumbsup:

[Worf101]

I found out about 11:15 PM Sunday night EST that OBL was DOA. I found out from the K.N.N. "Knuclehead News Network". My son... affectionately known as "Da Knucklehead" had just came in from a graduation/birthday celebration for a classmate. He was doing his typical wandering around getting ready for school dance when he throws out the following on his way up to bed.

"Hey Pops they got Osama Bin Ladin tonight, he's dead."

"Yeah right kid, pull the other one while you're at it."

"No seriously, I heard about an hour ago."

I thought on this for a second, turned to CNN saw the headlines... then I got mad.

"You knew this an hour ago?"

"Yeah...,"

"And you were gonna tell me when?"

"It kinda slipped my mind."

"Anything else you hodlin' out on me? Amelia Erhardt found? Hoffa discovered in Cancun?"

After a while I just shook my head and watched the coverage until the wee hours. It was a bitter sweet moment for me. Bitter because my son and his mother were living and working in Manhattan that day and saw the whole thing unfold in real time. Bitter because a co-worker lost his brother in Building One that day. Bitter, because of all the people who've died that day and since due to OBL's twisted brand of Islamic Jihad. But I also feel proud and happy. Proud of the intelligence community and military who planned the operation. Proud of our President who proved that he's NOT a man you want to play poker with. And overjoyed at the spontaneous outpouring of joy expressed through out the country last night. Particularly at the Mets/Phillies game where the players stopped playing to cheer right along with the rest of us. Oh to live in such mighty times.

Worf

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I found out about 11:15 PM Sunday night EST that OBL was DOA. I found out from the K.N.N. "Knuclehead News Network". My son... affectionately known as "Da Knucklehead" had just came in from a graduation/birthday celebration for a classmate. He was doing his typical wandering around getting ready for school dance when he throws out the following on his way up to bed.

"Hey Pops they got Osama Bin Ladin tonight, he's dead."

"Yeah right kid, pull the other one while you're at it."

"No seriously, I heard about an hour ago."

I thought on this for a second, turned to CNN saw the headlines... then I got mad.

"You knew this an hour ago?"

"Yeah...,"

"And you were gonna tell me when?"

"It kinda slipped my mind."

"Anything else you hodlin' out on me? Amelia Erhardt found? Hoffa discovered in Cancun?"

After a while I just shook my head and watched the coverage until the wee hours. It was a bitter sweet moment for me. Bitter because my son and his mother were living and working in Manhattan that day and saw the whole thing unfold in real time. Bitter because a co-worker lost his brother in Building One that day. Bitter, because of all the people who've died that day and since due to OBL's twisted brand of Islamic Jihad. But I also feel proud and happy. Proud of the intelligence community and military who planned the operation. Proud of our President who proved that he's NOT a man you want to play poker with. And overjoyed at the spontaneous outpouring of joy expressed through out the country last night. Particularly at the Mets/Phillies game where the players stopped playing to cheer right along with the rest of us. Oh to live in such mighty times.

Worf

BTW, A great description of how you came to hear the news. It definitely is one of those where were you moments.

The one Met game I don't watch has a moment that I would have loved to see and the game seemed like a great one that in a bit of poetic justice the New York team won in extra innings.

I too was loving staying up watching all those college kids excited and gathering near the White House. Oh what a night!!!!!!

I think I have a new nickname for Barack Obama. Don't piss off the Obaminator. He will have you erased from existence. He will find you anywhere at any time. You can run but you can't hide.

It sure is joyous news but it is bittersweet and kinda sad that it came to this. The fact that all those people died on 9/11/01 and around the world in other attacks and military operations. Not to sound like the narrator of a cheesy fantasy movie but the face of evil may have been defeated for now but time will only tell if a new face will manifest itself.

Inject Sarcasm

So when is the Michael Bay movie coming out starring Ben Affleck?

[Mr Peabody]

I have to admit I wondered if we'd ever get him. It shows we never give up. This has to be a significant boost in morale to our troops, their families, and all touched by 9-11.

Not to rain on the parade but an internet web post is already out saying Gehod is not over. In a society where suicide is a weapon can we really instill any fear.

Worf, your son actually did you a favor. I was scanning the channels and landed on CNN to see if I could catch any news, this was when they heard the president was going to make a speech but no one knew about what. The commentaries made while they were waiting I thought were nothing short of stupid. Then the speech kept getting pushed back and the announcers kept sounding stupid. Look if there's nothing to say go to regular programming until the time don't sit and ramble, and if you do, please sound intelligent.

[GMichael]

Bye bye Bin. I hope your replacement thinks twice about following in your foot steps.

[Worf101]

I have to admit I wondered if we'd ever get him. It shows we never give up. This has to be a significant boost in morale to our troops, their families, and all touched by 9-11.

Not to rain on the parade but an internet web post is already out saying Gehod is not over. In a society where suicide is a weapon can we really instill any fear.

Worf, your son actually did you a favor. I was scanning the channels and landed on CNN to see if I could catch any news, this was when they heard the president was going to make a speech but no one knew about what. The commentaries made while they were waiting I thought were nothing short of stupid. Then the speech kept getting pushed back and the announcers kept sounding stupid. Look if there's nothing to say go to regular programming until the time don't sit and ramble, and if you do, please sound intelligent.
+1 my friend. There's nothing more mind numbingly stupid than pundits with no knowledge of the facts or reporters with nothing to report!!!! Is there anything wrong with saying "I don't know"? Sheesh. But such is the life of the 24-hours news cycle.

Worf

[Feanor]

Great to hear that they finally snuffed Bin Laden. :cool:

Makes Pakistan look bad, but what else is new.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Great to hear that they finally snuffed Bin Laden. :cool:

Makes Pakistan look bad, but what else is new.

And from the facts that seem to arising it seems like he was probably there all along and I think Obama and the parties inlvolved in the miltary got sick of warning the Pakistani government everytime they acted so they went ahead and took him out BEFORE telling them. Its funny when you tell the Pakistani government you are going to strike and when you do strike somehow the targets suddenly left. Anyhow good riddance.

[ForeverAutumn]

+1 my friend. There's nothing more mind numbingly stupid than pundits with no knowledge of the facts or reporters with nothing to report!!!! Is there anything wrong with saying "I don't know"? Sheesh. But such is the life of the 24-hours news cycle.Worf

The best example that I saw of this last night was one of the networks reporting on what another network was reporting. I kid you not...it went something like this:

"We're hearing that another network is reporting that Bin Laden was found at a mansion just outside of Islamabad, but the reports that we have are not showing that detail".

Then I turned on CNN and, sure enough, they were reporting the Islamabad story.

Good riddance to the most evil man on earth.

[bobsticks]

I feel a pride for the American Special Forces units that accomplished this task and a hope that the families that experienced loss can find some closure. That said, I'm a bit less celebratory than many.

Tha "Face of Evil" has been vanquished but let us remember that nature abhors a vacuum. As long as there are conditions of economic disparity and hopelessness and religions to practice exclusion and blame these wars will continue.

[ForeverAutumn]

^ Party pooper! :prrr:

Of course you're right. This isn't over by a long shot. But let people bask in a little sunshine for a bit, will ya?

[GMichael]

Until we shut down all the training camps around the world, there will be no time for basking.

[bobsticks]

I have never pooped in, on, or at a party.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I lost my favorite Uncle and cousin in the twin towers, but I am not celebrating Osama's death. I never celebrate someones death, even someone as evil as this man. I have to agree with sticks - this is no time for celebration. We should be more alert than ever, because there is going to be a retaliation...no doubt about it.

As a part time New Yorker, I hope this brings some closure for some who do not already have it. For me, killing Bin Laden did give me closure, I got it a long time ago.

I do want to thank those servicemen who conducted the raid. Pakistan is not a friend, and we should immediately stop supporting them. They lied, stalled, and tried to deflect us from getting this man, and I know they knew he was there. I am beginning to wonder just how much effort Bush really put into finding Bin Laden after this.

[Ajani]

I lost my favorite Uncle and cousin in the twin towers, but I am not celebrating Osama's death. I never celebrate someones death, even someone as evil as this man. I have to agree with sticks - this is no time for celebration. We should be more alert than ever, because there is going to be a retaliation...no doubt about it.

As a part time New Yorker, I hope this brings some closure for some who do not already have it. For me, killing Bin Laden did give me closure, I got it a long time ago.

I do want to thank those servicemen who conducted the raid. Pakistan is not a friend, and we should immediately stop supporting them. They lied, stalled, and tried to deflect us from getting this man, and I know they knew he was there. I am beginning to wonder just how much effort Bush really put into finding Bin Laden after this.

I agree with you and sticks on this, but I must admit that I'm not at that level of maturity yet so I'm happy that Bin Laden met his end...

I remember being a university student 10 years ago when I saw the news of the attacks on CNN... I skipped classes and spent the day glued to the TV, convinced that World War 3 had just started... I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that some fool could/would attack the US....

It's just insane that between the attack and now I've lived in 3 countries and now teach at that same University... It's just crazy to think how long that bastard managed to escape justice...

Sir T, you raise some serious questions that will be asked again and again and hopefully one day answered: Did the Bush admin give up on the hunt for Bin Laden too easily? & Was Pakistan helping to hide him?

[GMichael]

When 9/11 just happened, I couldn’t get over the films of kids dancing in the streets. It’s etched in my memory as badly as the sight of seeing the towers drop into a pile of dust, steel and bodies. I can’t bring myself to celebrate in any way. It would make me a hypocrite.
I feel a relief that he has been removed from the world but sadness that it is far from over. There will always be people who want to destroy others regardless of the reasons of the day.

[kexodusc]

I kinda feel like this should make me feel better. It doesn't really. Makes me sick to read comments from other countries attributing martyrdom to him. Just a sobering reminder that there's some evil people in the world.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I agree with you and sticks on this, but I must admit that I'm not at that level of maturity yet so I'm happy that Bin Laden met his end...

I remember being a university student 10 years ago when I saw the news of the attacks on CNN... I skipped classes and spent the day glued to the TV, convinced that World War 3 had just started... I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that some fool could/would attack the US....

It's just insane that between the attack and now I've lived in 3 countries and now teach at that same University... It's just crazy to think how long that bastard managed to escape justice...

Sir T, you raise some serious questions that will be asked again and again and hopefully one day answered: Did the Bush admin give up on the hunt for Bin Laden too easily? & Was Pakistan helping to hide him?

A,
I also remember 9/11 like it was yesterday. I remember my aunt calling me to tell me she cannot contact my Uncle or cousin. Both worked for Canter Fitzgerald in the north tower, a brokerage firm whose offices took a direct hit from one of the planes. I tried to get on a flight immediately after that phone call, but was unable to. So I ended up driving across the country to be with my aunt. When I got there, she had stopped speaking, and remained so traumatized she was mute for months.

Pakistan has some questions that need answering. How is it that Osama was in a compound just miles away from a military base, and the ISI did not know about it? Has elements within the ISI been protecting Bin Laden? Has the Pakistani government been protecting Bin Laden, which is why they were protesting our bombing Al Qaeda terrorist in Pakistan's tribal area.

I do think it is time to end the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, but I do not think we should leave the middle east. Iran, and the Muslim Brotherhood have said we should leave, but I believe they are up to something, or our presence would not be such a threat to them.

[ForeverAutumn]

So I ended up driving across the country to be with my aunt. When I got there, she had stopped speaking, and remained so traumatized she was mute for months.

That's horrible Sir T. Your poor aunt. How is she now?

I spoke to a guy from another music site on-line last September. He was one of the people you saw running away as the first tower came down. His story is terrifying. After his experience he became an alcoholic; had a meltdown during a board meeting two years later, of which he would not discuss the details; has since been diagnosed with PTSD and bi-polar disorder, and is permanently psychologically disabled. Although is alive, he says that he also died that day as the man he woke up as on Sept. 11 no longer exists. His story broke my heart.

We think so often of the victims who died, but the one's who survived are still suffering.

I hadn't seen the news since Obama's speech last night, so I wasn't aware of the celebrating that was going on in Washington and New York until I got home from work. I'm glad that Osama is dead, but the celebrating does disturb me and reminds me of how some in the middle east celebrated the towers falling. Death should not be celebrated in this way. Now I understand Bobsticks comments.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

When 9/11 just happened, I couldn’t get over the films of kids dancing in the streets. It’s etched in my memory as badly as the sight of seeing the towers drop into a pile of dust, steel and bodies. I can’t bring myself to celebrate in any way. It would make me a hypocrite.
I feel a relief that he has been removed from the world but sadness that it is far from over. There will always be people who want to destroy others regardless of the reasons of the day.

You relish the fact that a man of such evil has been erased. You relish that so much hard work went into finding him and eventually killing him. There is a huge difference between celebrating the death of a mass murderer and people celebrating the murder of innocents.(Brainwashed children don't know any better) It is of polar opposite points of view. We are not celebrating the death of a victim. He is and always was a criminal and certain perps are so far beyond saving or forgiving that they must be extinguished. I'm proud to be an American more now than perhaps in recent times. We set out to do something and we did it.

It is a different kind of celebration than say Happy New Year. Of course there is a sadness as well as we mourn the murdered. Many of the tears are not from exultation like winning the Super Bowl. There is joy in the accomplishment and sadness in needing the accomplishment. I say enjoy this moment as best you can especially if you are personally affected. You earned it and there is nothing wrong thinking I'm glad that SOB is dead.

[Mr Peabody]

Robert you make an excellent point. Let's not also forget OBL had his hand in terrorist acts before 9-11 as well. I am glad he is dead and feel he deserved it. He was a legitimate threat.

[Worf101]

You relish the fact that a man of such evil has been erased. You relish that so much hard work went into finding him and eventually killing him. There is a huge difference between celebrating the death of a mass murderer and people celebrating the murder of innocents.(Brainwashed children don't know any better) It is of polar opposite points of view. We are not celebrating the death of a victim. He is and always was a criminal and certain perps are so far beyond saving or forgiving that they must be extinguished. I'm proud to be an American more now than perhaps in recent times. We set out to do something and we did it.

It is a different kind of celebration than say Happy New Year. Of course there is a sadness as well as we mourn the murdered. Many of the tears are not from exultation like winning the Super Bowl. There is joy in the accomplishment and sadness in needing the accomplishment. I say enjoy this moment as best you can especially if you are personally affected. You earned it and there is nothing wrong thinking I'm glad that SOB is dead.
Very succinctly put. Well done.

Worf

[Ajani]

You relish the fact that a man of such evil has been erased. You relish that so much hard work went into finding him and eventually killing him. There is a huge difference between celebrating the death of a mass murderer and people celebrating the murder of innocents.(Brainwashed children don't know any better) It is of polar opposite points of view. We are not celebrating the death of a victim. He is and always was a criminal and certain perps are so far beyond saving or forgiving that they must be extinguished. I'm proud to be an American more now than perhaps in recent times. We set out to do something and we did it.

It is a different kind of celebration than say Happy New Year. Of course there is a sadness as well as we mourn the murdered. Many of the tears are not from exultation like winning the Super Bowl. There is joy in the accomplishment and sadness in needing the accomplishment. I say enjoy this moment as best you can especially if you are personally affected. You earned it and there is nothing wrong thinking I'm glad that SOB is dead.

Very well said

[bobsticks]

I agree with the others Robert, very well said.

You stated earlier that you had one regret that night and so do I...that I didn't pull the trigger. My statement earlier shouldn't be taken as intending to chastize anyone on any moral grounds. That a primary sponsor of terrorism has been vanquished is a good and just thing and that is cause for celebration.

For my own part I think caution is in order when we use phrases like "The Face of Evil" because it leads to the "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" conundrum. It would be unwise to assume that Osama's demise necessarily means that the world has become a safer place.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

That's horrible Sir T. Your poor aunt. How is she now?

She was very depressed yesterday(and so was I) that people were dancing around and cheering in NY. She said it reminded her of the people dancing in the streets in the Middle East when the towers fell. She says our cheering makes us pretty much like "them". I understand her point. She is doing much better than she was nine years ago for sure, but she has lost a bit of her sharp wit, and overall glow and warmth she used to have.


I spoke to a guy from another music site on-line last September. He was one of the people you saw running away as the first tower came down. His story is terrifying. After his experience he became an alcoholic; had a meltdown during a board meeting two years later, of which he would not discuss the details; has since been diagnosed with PTSD and bi-polar disorder, and is permanently psychologically disabled. Although is alive, he says that he also died that day as the man he woke up as on Sept. 11 no longer exists. His story broke my heart.

We think so often of the victims who died, but the one's who survived are still suffering.

I know many, many people still traumatized by 9/11. In a way, I still am. I took time off from work to help my aunt through this trauma - handling insurance issues(which was extremely difficult process, they asked me if we had the bodies and are sure of their deaths), working out the details of the will, and getter her financially straight. It was a very tough 6-7 months for sure.


I hadn't seen the news since Obama's speech last night, so I wasn't aware of the celebrating that was going on in Washington and New York until I got home from work. I'm glad that Osama is dead, but the celebrating does disturb me and reminds me of how some in the middle east celebrated the towers falling. Death should not be celebrated in this way. Now I understand Bobsticks comments.

Well, celebrating like this makes us no better than the anti-American folks. I always thought we were above this kind of behavior, and that makes us different. I guess not.

[ForeverAutumn]

I spoke to a guy from another music site on-line last September... His story is terrifying.

For anyone who is interested, the following link is this man's first-hand account of his experience on September 11, 2001. It was written on September 13, 2001. I got some of the details wrong in my previous post but the outcome was correct. It's a long read, but worthwhile.

http://arkangel3.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/temporal-remberance-amidst-the-ashes/

In response to OBL's death, he had this to say, "AND YES, I WANTED TO SEE THE MOTHER****ER WHO RUINED MY LIFE AND KILLED THREE THOUSAND HUMAN BEINGS IN FRONT OF ME DIE. NO TRIAL. NO JUSTICE OUTSIDE OF A ****ING BULLET TO THE HEAD, WHICH IS WHAT HE GOT. "

Once you read his blog, you'll have no trouble understanding why he feels this way.

[JohnMichael]

I provide care for an elderly couple and this morning the wife said "we should kill all the terrorists" and of course I had to ask would that then make us terrorists? I am glad bin Laden is gone but I hope we do not make this a habit with our enemies.

[Feanor]

I provide care for an elderly couple and this morning the wife said "we should kill all the terrorists" and of course I had to ask would that then make us terrorists? I am glad bin Laden is gone but I hope we do not make this a habit with our enemies.
Ditto these sentiments. OBL should be a special case.

[Worf101]

I'm heartened by the thoughtful, intelligent discourse on this subject that has gone on here since OBL's death. Trust me it's not so nice on other sites right now. It's discussions like this, rathional yet heartfelt, that reminds me how much I love this site and you my friends. I'm so proud of you all.

Worf

[GMichael]

You relish the fact that a man of such evil has been erased. You relish that so much hard work went into finding him and eventually killing him. There is a huge difference between celebrating the death of a mass murderer and people celebrating the murder of innocents.(Brainwashed children don't know any better) It is of polar opposite points of view. We are not celebrating the death of a victim. He is and always was a criminal and certain perps are so far beyond saving or forgiving that they must be extinguished. I'm proud to be an American more now than perhaps in recent times. We set out to do something and we did it.

It is a different kind of celebration than say Happy New Year. Of course there is a sadness as well as we mourn the murdered. Many of the tears are not from exultation like winning the Super Bowl. There is joy in the accomplishment and sadness in needing the accomplishment. I say enjoy this moment as best you can especially if you are personally affected. You earned it and there is nothing wrong thinking I'm glad that SOB is dead.

You make many good points. I don't disagree with any of them. If it were anyone in my family killed on 9/11 I’d probably be more celebratory.

I do have one friend who was affected directly. He was a fireman in NYC at the time. He helped pull bodies from the rubble. Most of his fellow firemen were killed that day. He was promoted to chief because the Chief (and anyone else above him) were all killed. This guy used to be one of the most fun loving guys I knew. He always had a smile on his face and a joke on his lips. Now he just sits, looks down, and drinks. He avoids conversations with anyone and won’t make eye contact anymore. I’m sure that loosing all his coworkers was bad enough, but to then get promoted because of it tears at him.
I hope that this brings him some kind of piece.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

You make many good points. I don't disagree with any of them. If it were anyone in my family killed on 9/11 I’d probably be more celebratory.

I do have one friend who was affected directly. He was a fireman in NYC at the time. He helped pull bodies from the rubble. Most of his fellow firemen were killed that day. He was promoted to chief because the Chief (and anyone else above him) were all killed. This guy used to be one of the most fun loving guys I knew. He always had a smile on his face and a joke on his lips. Now he just sits, looks down, and drinks. He avoids conversations with anyone and won’t make eye contact anymore. I’m sure that loosing all his coworkers was bad enough, but to then get promoted because of it tears at him.
I hope that this brings him some kind of piece.

I remember that line from the movie Platoon and it is the reason I have only watched that movie once since I bought it. I can't handle the emotion all that well. I would have shot my commanding officer for his acts against civilians. There is something to be said about having honor.

Osama Bin Laden started a terrorist war against innocent civilians. I've always wondered what was the goal. But it is not worth trying to figure out. If you spend too much time staring into the abyss you will become what you seek to understand and vanquish. I wonder how many soldiers became that way; lost in a world of revenge and hatred never to be heard from again coming home never the same.

At least on the battlefield you are better prepared to deal with such horrors; at least you should be.

For a moment just allow me to dream
Of a place where we all can live free

I can almost hear the music
People dancing in the streets

It might be a rainy day
There are certainly challenges ahead
But please just allow me to dream......

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I'm heartened by the thoughtful, intelligent discourse on this subject that has gone on here since OBL's death. Trust me it's not so nice on other sites right now. It's discussions like this, rathional yet heartfelt, that reminds me how much I love this site and you my friends. I'm so proud of you all.

Worf

And thanks everybody. I feel really inspired to write today on this rainy day off from work. You have helped me sort this out in my head. I've got to write more reviews. I set out years ago to be the number one reviewer on Amazon.com.(Under my real name) If we can get Bin Laden then maybe I can move up in the rankings. Is it that important? Probably not but I know my reviews are way more thorough than others there so it is hard to compete as I don't have hundreds of simplistic brief reviews blowing smoke about how wonderful everything is. Afterall, I am the rambler.

[3LB]

Just a few thoughts:

Perhaps there are no photos of Bin Laden's body because it wasn't as surgical an operation as they would like to suggest.

Who cares if Bin Laden was unarmed or willing to surrender; he didn't exactly turn himself in. Sometimes criminals get killed during a capture attempt.

There may be a few old politicians and/or corporate types who didn't want Bin Laden on a witness stand for any reason.

I have no idea what we won exactly - this dude didn't defeat us militarily and I don't think that was his intent. This was a college educated man who was once an integral part of what Ronald Reagan called, "Afganistan's Freedom Fighters", funded by our CIA. He didn't think he was going to defeat our military or cripple the US public's resolve. He drew us into a long protracted war, leading us to believe he was hiding in the cragged hills of Afganistan, maybe even knowing that Bush couldn't resist returning to finish some old family business in Iraq. He wanted to slowly bleed our economy to the point its in now and by God, I think he succeeded.

I wasn't pleased to see people celebrating over this, but I'm just as disturbed by those who were lightning quick to try and discount Pres Obama's involvment or contribution, suggesting he was taking un-due credit, as if he was the first sitting President to do so. Equally ridiculous is some of the bloggers suggesting this was some sort of fabrication by Obama to make himself look good, as if the military had a long running history of lying for Democrat Presidents. It just smacks of desperation and I am loathe to think we have a campaign coming up in several months.

[Ajani]

Just a few thoughts:

Perhaps there are no photos of Bin Laden's body because it wasn't as surgical an operation as they would like to suggest.

Who cares if Bin Laden was unarmed or willing to surrender; he didn't exactly turn himself in. Sometimes criminals get killed during a capture attempt.

There may be a few old politicians and/or corporate types who didn't want Bin Laden on a witness stand for any reason.

I suspect the orders were "if he blinks, kill him"... but technically if he was totally passive in surrender, he should be captured...

Bringing him in alive would have been bad for everyone:

1) What if he escaped? Greatest embarrassment in US history and completely demoralizing to the troops and society...

2) Where and when do you have his trial? Up to now the major players in Guantanamo have yet to go to trial...

3) If you think possible reprisals against Americans is bad now, imagine if the reprisals were aimed at getting Bin Laden released from US custody... You'd probably see an attack a day...


I have no idea what we won exactly - this dude didn't defeat us militarily and I don't think that was his intent. This was a college educated man who was once an integral part of what Ronald Reagan called, "Afganistan's Freedom Fighters", funded by our CIA. He didn't think he was going to defeat our military or cripple the US public's resolve. He drew us into a long protracted war, leading us to believe he was hiding in the cragged hills of Afganistan, maybe even knowing that Bush couldn't resist returning to finish some old family business in Iraq. He wanted to slowly bleed our economy to the point its in now and by God, I think he succeeded.

The decision to settle old grudges in Iraq, instead of pursuing Bin Laden, was the reason why there is little to really celebrate... Bin Laden was allowed to accomplish way too much...


I wasn't pleased to see people celebrating over this, but I'm just as disturbed by those who were lightning quick to try and discount Pres Obama's involvment or contribution, suggesting he was taking un-due credit, as if he was the first sitting President to do so. Equally ridiculous is some of the bloggers suggesting this was some sort of fabrication by Obama to make himself look good, as if the military had a long running history of lying for Democrat Presidents. It just smacks of desperation and I am loathe to think we have a campaign coming up in several months.

Politics will always be nasty... And many persons fail to understand how crucial Obama's decision was... That operation could have been messed up a hundred ways:

1) They never had more than circumstantial evidence that Bin Laden was in that mansion... So they could have waited for months or even years for solid evidence, by which time he might have escaped or launched more terrorist attacks on the world...

2) Obama, could have followed the typical military advice of "bomb the area to hell" and then be stuck with ZERO proof that Bin Laden is dead... Which would be a major failure as Al Queda could easily continue business as usual while pretending that Bin Laden was never in the compound...

100) What if Bin Laden was not in the compound? Suppose it was just a hiding place for some big Pakistani drug dealer? Then the US just sent troops into a foreign territory - That's an act of war... Pakistan is clearly pissed about the US violating their sovereignty, but they can't complain much because it led to the killing of the world's most wanted terrorist... If it hadn't, then I assure you that Pakistan would not be as 'quiet' as they are now... In fact, the rest of region and even the world might be really pissed with the US as well...

The President's decision took balls and good judgement... So if he wants to take credit, it's his right to do so...

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I suspect the orders were "if he blinks, kill him"... but technically if he was totally passive in surrender, he should be captured...

Bringing him in alive would have been bad for everyone:

1) What if he escaped? Greatest embarrassment in US history and completely demoralizing to the troops and society...

2) Where and when do you have his trial? Up to now the major players in Guantanamo have yet to go to trial...

3) If you think possible reprisals against Americans is bad now, imagine if the reprisals were aimed at getting Bin Laden released from US custody... You'd probably see an attack a day...



The decision to settle old grudges in Iraq, instead of pursuing Bin Laden, was the reason why there is little to really celebrate... Bin Laden was allowed to accomplish way too much...



Politics will always be nasty... And many persons fail to understand how crucial Obama's decision was... That operation could have been messed up a hundred ways:

1) They never had more than circumstantial evidence that Bin Laden was in that mansion... So they could have waited for months or even years for solid evidence, by which time he might have escaped or launched more terrorist attacks on the world...

2) Obama, could have followed the typical military advice of "bomb the area to hell" and then be stuck with ZERO proof that Bin Laden is dead... Which would be a major failure as Al Queda could easily continue business as usual while pretending that Bin Laden was never in the compound...

100) What if Bin Laden was not in the compound? Suppose it was just a hiding place for some big Pakistani drug dealer? Then the US just send troops into a foreign territory - That's an act of war... Pakistan is clearly pissed about the US violating their sovereignty, but they can't complain much because it led to the killing of the world's most wanted terrorist... If it hadn't, then I assure you that Pakistan would not be as 'quiet' as they are now... In fact, the rest of region and even the world might be really pissed with the US as well...

The President's decision took balls and good judgement... So if he wants to take credit, it's his right to do so...

As far as I am concerned Pakistan is admitting guilt here.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110505/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_bin_laden

I quote...

"The statement, the first since Monday's raid, signaled the army's anger at the unilateral operation, but was also aimed at pacifying domestic critics who have accused it of failing to protect the country's sovereignty — potent charges in a country where anti-Americanism runs deep."

Pakistan is our enemy

It doesn't matter what is said in public. What matters is what is done in private. Obama did the right thing.

[bobsticks]

The President's decision took balls and good judgement... So if he wants to take credit, it's his right to do so...

I agree to an extent. Anyone who has spent any time at or near the top of an administration knows that one spends much less time on minutae and much more on theory, guidance and team building. One person that has not been given enough credit is Leon Panetta. He and others should be lauded and accredited for having done the real detail work as well as the nail-biting, take-a-decade-off-your-life pushthrough.

A concept that just now is being processed by the public is that Obama had the foresight and intestinal fortitude to not inform the Pakistanis before the mission. Some might argue that this trouncing of a nation's sovereignty could have been avoided but I suspect that the Bush Administration would've been more successful had it not equated taking a bribe with honesty or loyalty.

[Feanor]

I give Bush credit for one thing, (and pretty much only one thing): he warned Bin Laden that he'd be take "dead or alive".

I don't give a damn whether OBL was armed or not, (very illiberal of me I'll grant). Practically speaking the show trial of a captured OBL would have been big problem from numerous perspectives. And remember there are still parts of the world where revenge is respected and in those places people will take a certain lesson.

OTOH, as I said above, OBL is a special case and the US shouldn't make a practice of assassinating terrorist rather than trying them where that's possible.

[ForeverAutumn]

I don't give a damn whether OBL was armed or not,

I'll say here what I said on another site. OBL doesn't have to be armed when he has people who are willing to die to protect him and do his dirty work. Why dirty his own hands? The thousands of people who he's responsible for killing weren't armed either.

I believe in justice, but I also believe in capital punishment. He's a mass murderer who got what he deserved.

[3LB]

he's a mass murderer who got what he deserved.this^