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JohnMichael
02-10-2011, 04:41 PM
Oh my on-again off-again enjoyment of the RS6's. Well we are on again. An odd thing about my apartment is the windows are not centered in the wall. There is more space between the left wall and the windows than there is between the windows and right wall. When I put my new stand in the room I centered it with the windows. The speakers I placed with the same distance to the side walls. This gave the look of the right speaker being too close to the stand.

Well one day for visual effects I decided to move the right speaker closer to the right sidewall. Now the speakers and stand looked nicer together. I dropped in a cd and holy sh!t there was some bass. Not boomy or flabby bass but deep and controlled bass I did not think the speakers could produce. Imaging was more focused and soundstage deeper and more layered. Both speakers received the same amount of toe-in.

I have been listening to the speakers now for a week and a half and I am still impressed. I thought I had tried about every combination of placement but once I varied the distance of speakers from the sidewalls it all came together. I now agree with the Stereophile review of the RS6's.

frenchmon
02-10-2011, 04:54 PM
Those speakers must be really really fussy about placement.

JohnMichael
02-10-2011, 05:13 PM
I think in small rooms speakers with good bass are always fussy to set-up. My room is 12x15 and the 12 foot wall is where the speakers are placed. So I am not sure if it is the speakers or my room. Or maybe I am fussy. On the other hand decor is important. Oh I am fussy.

atomicAdam
02-10-2011, 06:00 PM
I thought you were gonna say you finally decided to sell those poor SOBs of speakers. Remind me to tell you about 'our' experience in the Monitor Audio Room at CES. Awkward

JohnMichael
02-11-2011, 04:11 PM
I thought you were gonna say you finally decided to sell those poor SOBs of speakers. Remind me to tell you about 'our' experience in the Monitor Audio Room at CES. Awkward


I look forward to hearing that story.

JohnMichael
02-18-2011, 08:21 PM
I have always listened to my speakers sans grill but with the new dog I replaced the covers on the RS 6's. He runs around shaking hell out of his toys and I was worried he would hit a driver with his toy. Interesting difference in sound. I will report back if I like the change but I am still enjoying the MA RS 6's since positioning them asymetrical in the room.

JohnMichael
06-12-2011, 11:53 AM
We are off again. Friday night I dreamt about a time I listened to Reference 3A speakers. I remembered how much I enjoyed the sound. I thought about the sound all day at work and when I arrived home out came the MF OML1's. I had been listening to many of Mozarts compositions and was missing some of the delicacy of the music. The OML1's brought back the sound my dream reminded me I was missing. I think I will be enjoying the OML1's for the foreseeable future. Once again I think the smaller and less resonant cabinet is the reason I enjoy the OML's.

Ajani
06-12-2011, 01:06 PM
We are off again. Friday night I dreamt about a time I listened to Reference 3A speakers. I remembered how much I enjoyed the sound. I thought about the sound all day at work and when I arrived home out came the MF OML1's. I had been listening to many of Mozarts compositions and was missing some of the delicacy of the music. The OML1's brought back the sound my dream reminded me I was missing. I think I will be enjoying the OML1's for the foreseeable future. Once again I think the smaller and less resonant cabinet is the reason I enjoy the OML's.

I really think it may be time for you to audition some new speakers... If you keep going back and forth between the OMLs and the RS6, then it's likely that neither speaker meets all your needs...

JohnMichael
06-12-2011, 01:29 PM
I really think it may be time for you to audition some new speakers... If you keep going back and forth between the OMLs and the RS6, then it's likely that neither speaker meets all your needs...


I agree but I do not have time to truly audition speakers like I used to do. 35 miles one way to an audio shop and then return trips to listen again. The local shop that sold me the MA's only sell MA's. I would like to hear the Nola Boxer and the Devore Gibbon 3's. Then I would like to relisten to the Reference 3A Dulcets. I even thought about ordering a pair of MMG's since they are inexpensive. If I do not like them I can send them back.

I did place the OML 1's exactly where the RS6's had been. That placement benefits both speakers.

frenchmon
06-12-2011, 03:48 PM
JM...I like a speaker that has a rich midrange, and lively top end with a little sparkle without being fatigue, and a bottom end thats not in the range of Dynaudio... that some how after a while seems, to my ears... to be over powering as to have more of a presence than everything else in the music. ...but I do like my bottom end to still have presence with articulation.

I like my lower to higher midrange to also have great music dispersion that seem to bring out the subtle sounds that many speakers fail to amplify. I've listened to a lot of speakers in my life time and I can tell you its hard to find that speaker. Either they do this but they dont do that.

System matching is very important with speakers and the character of the everything else in a system...at lest in my experience with hifi. Now you've seen my signature, I got what I could afford paired with the sound that I wanted....and I know what sound I want. Let me say, I hate a boring sound! I like the Rotel sound...can be a little bright with some recording, thats why I got the A+ cable being a slightly warm cable to tame the Rotel a bit. But I really lucked up after doing a lot of reading about a speaker thats not really well known and respected in America. After reading through countless reviews with many people saying they where a little bright, but still seem to always have very favorable reviews...pro and consumer alike. They do seem to have a small following on a few forums but thats about it. So I took the chance and bought a Pair of this speaker...not the model that I wanted but because I did not want to spend a bundle on a speaker in a hunch, I got one of the lower models to get a feel for the Character of the speaker, and man did the research in reading the reviews pay off. The nature of the canton 403 is just what I was hoping for. Though the bottom end could be a little lower, I was assured that as I move up in that speaker teh bottom end would have more punch....My dream model is the Canton Reference 1.2 DC
http://reference.canton.de/assets/images/produkte/farben/reference-1.2-dc-F1.png but I will never be able to aford that speaker and remain a married man. So I will have to settle for a Veto 820 for the space I have in my listening room.

So this brings me to the Reference 3a. I told a friend about the Canton's I have and he bought a pair. He then latter made comments that the Canton's have a sound in the tweeter like the Reference 3a. I am just dying to hear a pair of these speakers. I cant find any place to take a listen...and they dont have a model cheap enough that I would be willing to dish out on a hunch. If you like the sound of the reference 3A speakers , I am willing to bet you taste in sound is similar to mine. but I do agree with Ajani...if you keep switching them back and forth, then you may need to find that ultimate speaker that will do it for you....go ahead and get the Reference 3a and let us know how fun they are.

blackraven
06-12-2011, 05:48 PM
I even thought about ordering a pair of MMG's since they are inexpensive. If I do not like them I can send them back.




If you have an inkling to try out the MMG's, consider listening to a pair of MG 12's if you have a Magnepan dealer nearby. The MG 12's are a step up from the MMG's but the difference is not night and day (deeper bass, larger sound stage and presence). This way you can get an idea of what the MMG's sound like and decide if you like the Planar sound without actually having to buy the MMG's. The MMG's will definitely need a decent subwoofer. They will also sound better with a slight modification of their stands, tilting them slightly forward and raising them 2-4" off the floor.

JohnMichael
06-12-2011, 08:22 PM
This is how I am listening tonight.

frenchmon
06-13-2011, 05:57 AM
This is how I am listening tonight.


Very nice JM...and may I add nice eye candy! I would love to come and sit and take a listens to your system....I know the power of the clean articulate control of Krell from listening to Peabodys....I have been a Marantz lover from back in the late 70's so I know the sophistication it can add to the right system...and I have as ways kept and eye on LSA1 speakers which look like your Mobile Fidelity OML1's....but I don't know the character of that speaker....they sure look very nice....looks to be in a different class than your MA's. What are the Mobile Fidelity OML1's like? Deep bass? dispersion of sound in the mids? What are they like...what strong good characteristics do they have?

JohnMichael
06-13-2011, 08:09 AM
Very nice JM...and may I add nice eye candy! I would love to come and sit and take a listens to your system....I know the power of the clean articulate control of Krell from listening to Peabodys....I have been a Marantz lover from back in the late 70's so I know the sophistication it can add to the right system...and I have as ways kept and eye on LSA1 speakers which look like your Mobile Fidelity OML1's....but I don't know the character of that speaker....they sure look very nice....looks to be in a different class than your MA's. What are the Mobile Fidelity OML1's like? Deep bass? dispersion of sound in the mids? What are they like...what strong good characteristics do they have?



First the bass which is not deep but very textured and tuneful. There is enough bass for a balanced sound. The midrange is rich in tone and the soundfield begins at the plane of the speakers and is deep. The sound is not forward or in your face. Typical silk dome highs with detail and non fatiguing treble.

The cabinets are small and cross braced horizontally and vertically. The lack of large panels and the bracing reduces resonances that blur the sound with the MA's. It is when I start missing details in the music that I tire of the MA's. Of course the MA's are more fun when playing hard rock or The Black Eyed Peas. The OML1's are detailed but not etched. The MA's have deeper bass but a less defined sound in complex music.

frenchmon
06-13-2011, 10:36 AM
Yes..I like what you have discribed of theOML1's ....I listen to mostly Jazz. Acoustic Jazz, old school R&b and some classical now and then. Thanks...I dont think MF makes the OML1's speaker any more. But I would suspect its the very same as the LSA1. Thanks, I would not be afraid of a LSA1 purchase now if a great possibility arose having some understanding of the character.

harley .guy07
06-13-2011, 07:49 PM
Yeah I would be looking for new speakers if I were you because it seems that you have just as many off times as on times and that is not a good thing for a person to have with their system. It will just make you hate listening to it eventually. I was like that with my Paradigms before I modified them when I owned them, they were just too damn bright and fatiguing. My Dynaudio's aren't fatiguing and give me the detail I like with out being too strong in the highs and making my ears bleed. I have very sensitive high frequency hearing so to much high end makes my cringe.

Ajani
06-13-2011, 08:23 PM
I agree but I do not have time to truly audition speakers like I used to do. 35 miles one way to an audio shop and then return trips to listen again. The local shop that sold me the MA's only sell MA's. I would like to hear the Nola Boxer and the Devore Gibbon 3's. Then I would like to relisten to the Reference 3A Dulcets. I even thought about ordering a pair of MMG's since they are inexpensive. If I do not like them I can send them back.

I'm in a very similar situation: I used to a lot of auditioning when I lived in Canada, but since I returned to the Caribbean I have to do most of my ordering without an audition...

The advice I can give on ordering blind is to read both pro and user reviewers for descriptions of the sound characteristics (not whether the reviewer liked the gear)... I find that if enough reviews consistently describe certain characteristics in a component, then you have a decent idea of what to expect if you order it...

JohnMichael
06-14-2011, 08:57 AM
I'm in a very similar situation: I used to a lot of auditioning when I lived in Canada, but since I returned to the Caribbean I have to do most of my ordering without an audition...





I currently have 3 pairs of speakers and the MA RS6's were the only ones I auditioned. They are not bad speakers but not to my taste. They reinforce my thinking that a tower speaker at the $1,000 price range will have too many cabinet resonances. So my next pair of speakers will be stand mount.

When I am ready to shop for speakers I think I will plan a vacation in a large city. Spend my days going to audio shops. I do not want to take the risk of buying sound unheard.

Luckily neither the MA's nor the MF's are unenjoyable. The asymmetrical placement that improved the sound of the RS6's is also helping with the OML1's. I will continue to enjoy one of the pairs until I hear my dream speakers.

Hyfi
06-14-2011, 09:09 AM
This is how I am listening tonight.

Nice pic.

But, if those guys are rear ported, the big glass windows are possibly sucking the bass out of the room.

Have you ever tried hanging a big blanket over all three windows?

Hyfi
06-14-2011, 09:11 AM
JM...I like a speaker that has a rich midrange, and lively top end with a little sparkle without being fatigue, and a bottom end thats not in the range of Dynaudio... that some how after a while seems, to my ears... to be over powering as to have more of a presence than everything else in the music. ...but I do like my bottom end to still have presence with articulation.



So you have just described what a Von Schwiekert speaker sounds like as well as my Clearfield Continentals, which are VS's when he worked for Counterpoint.

LOL, then my 82s

JohnMichael
06-14-2011, 12:11 PM
Nice pic.

But, if those guys are rear ported, the big glass windows are possibly sucking the bass out of the room.

Have you ever tried hanging a big blanket over all three windows?



I am not sure if I think the ports contribute much to the sound due to it being very narrow. I think it would mainly lower internal pressure.

JohnMichael
06-16-2011, 11:50 AM
The Mobile Fidelity OML1's are singing sweetly in the asymmetrical placement that helped the MA RS6's. I also gave the right speaker a little more toe-in and the left a little less to compensate for the off center positioning of my listening chair. It is too early to tell but I think I will be more pleased with the sound. I do not know if it is the room but I am surprised how difficult it has been to find the best placement for the speakers. I think now I have found it.

TheHills44060
06-16-2011, 12:00 PM
Use the Monitor Audio's for firewood and enjoy those OML's Mr. JM!

JohnMichael
06-16-2011, 12:05 PM
Use the Monitor Audio's for firewood and enjoy those OML's Mr. JM!



Or better yet I have a nephew who is having a birthday soon.

JohnMichael
06-18-2011, 08:40 AM
Today is the first chance I have had to listen to vinyl since switching back to the OML 1's from the RS6's. I thought the power supply upgrade was an improvement but I am really hearing how good it is today. The resonances of the RS6 cabinets blocked much of the detail and now that I am listening to the OML's I am very happy.

frenchmon
06-18-2011, 09:16 AM
So you have just described what a Von Schwiekert speaker sounds like as well as my Clearfield Continentals, which are VS's when he worked for Counterpoint.

LOL, then my 82s

Wow...thaks Hyfi...I will seek to listen to a pair. I think we have a dealer in town.

YBArcam
06-19-2011, 09:27 AM
I really liked the RS5, and wish MA made an RX5. I would consider buying a pair. The RS had a little too much high frequency energy for me. The new RX series really tames that, but having 2 woofers per speaker isn't something that I am looking for. Too much for the room I think, plus a more complex design can lead to sound compromises. I prefer one woofer/one tweeter setup in a small floorstander, at least for the room I have.

I think I am of the mind that a room will accept a certain size of speaker as it's ideal fit. If a bookshelf like the MoFi's sound great in your room, should you expect a much larger speaker like the RS6 to sound as good? JM, do you think that what might sound like cabinet resonances that obscure details, is actually just too much speaker for your room?

I think I've had the most luck in my room with relatively large bookshelf speakers (PMC TB2i, Tannoy Mercury F2). But small 2-way floorstanders work well too. I fear that introducing larger bookshelves or floorstanders simply would not work.

Jack in Wilmington
06-19-2011, 10:29 AM
What size is your room? My room is 15' x 11' which isn't large and I had floorstanders with 2 8" woofers each and it was too much for the room. I went to a large standmount (Usher X-719's) and I wasn't getting the full range that I was looking for. Then I went back to floorstanders but with 2 6" woofers and that was the right compromise. The bass is there, tight and well defined. Not boomy like the dual 8" woofers. Keep us in the loop on what works for your room. I know a lot of the guys here have worked hard to tame a not perfect room.

JohnMichael
06-19-2011, 11:05 AM
I really liked the RS5, and wish MA made an RX5. I would consider buying a pair. The RS had a little too much high frequency energy for me. The new RX series really tames that, but having 2 woofers per speaker isn't something that I am looking for. Too much for the room I think, plus a more complex design can lead to sound compromises. I prefer one woofer/one tweeter setup in a small floorstander, at least for the room I have.

I think I am of the mind that a room will accept a certain size of speaker as it's ideal fit. If a bookshelf like the MoFi's sound great in your room, should you expect a much larger speaker like the RS6 to sound as good? JM, do you think that what might sound like cabinet resonances that obscure details, is actually just too much speaker for your room?

I think I've had the most luck in my room with relatively large bookshelf speakers (PMC TB2i, Tannoy Mercury F2). But small 2-way floorstanders work well too. I fear that introducing larger bookshelves or floorstanders simply would not work.



I think since the midrange was where a lot of the detail was lost it was cabinet resonances. My room is 12 ft x 15 ft with the speakers against the 12 ft wall. The living room is open to the dining area which is another 12 ft x 8 ft space.

JohnMichael
06-24-2011, 07:50 PM
The Monitor Audio RS6's are on their way out. As I posted in another thread I purchased stands for the OML1's that have allowed them to truly sing. The stands are more rigid than previous stands and couple the speaker to the floor better. Now the sound is more detailed and a little fuller in the upper bass and are more defined in the mid bass and what low bass they can reproduce. The tweeter is at a level where it sounds sweeter and more instrumental textures.

I think now I am truly hearing all the best from the OML1's. I am glad I bought the new stands instead of new loudspeakers. The OML1's I now know are incredible and I only spent a little money to find that out.

frenchmon
06-25-2011, 06:57 AM
Glad you like the stands and the improvement in sound. I can say the same for my Cantons with those same stands.

That sort explains why when I took the Cantons to Peabodys and had the shoot out with his Dynaudio books shelves, why the Cantons sitting on top of another pair of speakers did not produce much bass. But when I got them back to my home and sat them back on the Sanus SF 26 stands the bass was full again. Thanks for the tip JM.

JohnMichael
06-27-2011, 08:27 AM
Yes..I like what you have discribed of theOML1's ....I listen to mostly Jazz. Acoustic Jazz, old school R&b and some classical now and then. Thanks...I dont think MF makes the OML1's speaker any more. But I would suspect its the very same as the LSA1. Thanks, I would not be afraid of a LSA1 purchase now if a great possibility arose having some understanding of the character.



I would like to hear the LSA1's and VR1's side by side with the OML1's. They all look like they use the same drivers but the crossovers are reported to be tweaked by the different companies. The VR1 looks like it is only single wired where the other two are bi-wired. The OML1 is the only speaker in the group with a sloping front baffle. They all three have the same narrow port in the same place. Interesting

ZisheseLiex
06-27-2011, 08:56 AM
great experience, dude! thanks for this great post wow... it's very wonderful report.

JohnMichael
06-27-2011, 10:27 AM
great experience, dude! thanks for this great post wow... it's very wonderful report.



Wow dude, thanks I look forward to your next post.

RGA
06-27-2011, 04:36 PM
Speakers are somewhat personal but if you can I would go with something larger than the likes of a dulcet from what I can see from the picture of your room. A well rounded bigger more dynamic speaker tends to sound like it breathes easier. The De Capo - but I preferred the sound of the older model - the newer one has a bit of a midrange suckout that is audible - and the tweeter ends up being more noticeable as a result.

A used set of Audio Note J's beside the window up against the wall would be one option (always is with me so won't disappoint from expectations. Against the wall you'll get down to 30-35hz. Corner would be better.

Alternatively, I would look into Sonist loudspeakers - they have a ribbon tweeter and a nice non irritating treble band. Integration isn't bang on (never is with very different driver technology in these hybrid systems - but better than usual) and they're modestly priced.

I don't know what you listen to but if you can't go near wall or corner and looks are important - and you never ever plan to go to SET or low powered amps - and you value something that can hit very hard and play rock that seems like an actual band is in your room and not completely absurdly priced the Gallo 3.5 (not the 3.1) and you may have to look used to afford it - is a terrific heartpounding speaker with first rate bass response. Very clean sound - Personally I think this is the SS lover's dream loudspeaker for that uber powerful presentation. And apparently it is not too terrible for low powered amps either - so.

JohnMichael
07-03-2011, 07:20 PM
Today I played a Nina Simone collection that I had played on the RS6's but had not heard on the OML1's in too long a time. Today's discovery was that the OML1's do funk much better. As Nina and band were getting funky I found myself really grooving to the music. The RS6's do not get funky.

frenchmon
07-04-2011, 05:08 AM
I would like to hear the LSA1's and VR1's side by side with the OML1's. They all look like they use the same drivers but the crossovers are reported to be tweaked by the different companies. The VR1 looks like it is only single wired where the other two are bi-wired. The OML1 is the only speaker in the group with a sloping front baffle. They all three have the same narrow port in the same place. Interesting

I know the other two, but not the VR1's. Who makes them?

frenchmon
07-04-2011, 05:12 AM
Today I played a Nina Simone collection that I had played on the RS6's but had not heard on the OML1's in too long a time. Today's discovery was that the OML1's do funk much better. As Nina and band were getting funky I found myself really grooving to the music. The RS6's do not get funky.

Is it that the OML's are in a different class than the RS6? Perhaps the next line up in Monitor Audio will be more in the class of the OML's?

JohnMichael
07-04-2011, 05:36 AM
I know the other two, but not the VR1's. Who makes them?




http://www.vonschweikert.com/interface/vr1_main.htm

JohnMichael
07-05-2011, 05:52 PM
Is it that the OML's are in a different class than the RS6? Perhaps the next line up in Monitor Audio will be more in the class of the OML's?




I think it has more to do with sound preferences than a particular brand. The MA's were my first speakers with metal woofer/mids. I have enjoyed a few speakers with metal domes but I think I am happiest with paper and silk. I might enjoy a stand mount MA but the OML1's are doing so well on short stands with their angled front baffle that I think I will be happy for awhile. I still think the cabinets blurred the sound of the RS6's.

frenchmon
07-06-2011, 03:58 AM
http://www.vonschweikert.com/interface/vr1_main.htm

Thanks sir...I will be moving up in speakers and I would love to move up in the Canton line maybe the Canton Ergo, or if I can find a deal, the Karat or Vento line. But it can be a challenge finding a dealer in the states let alone in St. Louis where I can hear them. The Vonschweikart VR-1...is that a discontinued speaker? If they are a clone to your stand mount speakers I am interested and will put them on my list as a possible reference speaker.

frenchmon
07-06-2011, 04:09 AM
I think it has more to do with sound preferences than a particular brand. The MA's were my first speakers with metal woofer/mids. I have enjoyed a few speakers with metal domes but I think I am happiest with paper and silk. I might enjoy a stand mount MA but the OML1's are doing so well on short stands with their angled front baffle that I think I will be happy for awhile. I still think the cabinets blurred the sound of the RS6's.

I tell ya....there is nothing more satisfying to know that speakers that you own are pushing out sound the way you love it. My Cantons do that, but lately I have been looking for a tad more in the bottom end punch...not much but just a tad. But good speakers bring a smile to my face....I have my play list in my head while at work so when I get home from a hard days work of stress....I can sit back in the easy chair and relax while I de-stress.

JohnMichael
09-20-2011, 06:28 PM
Well the Monitor Audio RS6's are out of the closet. I wanted to hear how they sounded with the AntiCable bi-wires. As I had mentioned with the OML 1's the Anti's allow you to hear the speakers and electronics more than the cables. I am finding that my opinion of what I was hearing with the RS6's had more to do with the cables than the cabinet vibrations. Beethoven's 5th is sounding very good.

I enjoy that bit more of a foundation from the extra driver and a tad more bass. Of course only time and more listening will tell.

JohnMichael
09-23-2011, 04:09 PM
Back to the MA RS6's. Listening sessions can get messy.

JohnMichael
10-09-2011, 07:46 PM
Well the RS6's continue to impress. Tight and defined bass along with great midrange and detailed highs. The AntiCables have really created synergy in my system.

I am listening to a modern recording of "West Side Story" and the dynamics and punch are amazing. Last night due to a party below me I pulled out the Telarc recording of the 1812 Overture with the recorded canons. I was impressed with both the sound and excursion of the drivers. At one point I was afraid the woofer cone was coming my way but the speakers handled it well and the party quieted down.

I am glad I did not jump the gun and sell them or give them away. Maria and Tony are singing "Tonight" and I believe.

JohnMichael
10-12-2011, 01:25 PM
The MA RS6's are still in use. I am still surprised by their transformation. Much of the complaints I had that were attributed to the speakers such as cabinet or driver colorations were not from the speakers. Classical music is more enjoyable with the deeper bass. They now image better than I thought possible. Everything I have said negative about the speakers were based on AQ speaker cables. They deserve the Stereophile Class B rating.

Poultrygeist
10-12-2011, 02:01 PM
300B's would do wonders for your MA's.

atomicAdam
10-12-2011, 02:04 PM
300B's would do wonders for your MA's.

What 300B amp that doesn't cost an arm and a leg would be powerful enough to run the RS6 effectively? They aren't the most sensitive of speakers.

I take that back - they are 91dB - but still - most 300B amps don't go above 10W - unless I'm missing some.

JohnMichael
10-12-2011, 03:41 PM
I am happy with my S-300i. I will be sticking with that 300.

JohnMichael
10-12-2011, 06:19 PM
What 300B amp that doesn't cost an arm and a leg would be powerful enough to run the RS6 effectively? They aren't the most sensitive of speakers.

I take that back - they are 91dB - but still - most 300B amps don't go above 10W - unless I'm missing some.





Actually John Atkinson found they were about 89.5db.

The Monitor Audio Silver RS6's estimated voltage sensitivity was 89.5dB(B)/2.83V/m, which, if slightly below the specified 91dB, is still higher than average.

Poultrygeist
10-13-2011, 02:57 AM
10 watts are ideal for 91 db speakers and with headroom to spare. You can reach 96 dbs in a 20X15 listening room with 92 db speakers driven by 2.5 watts.

All watts are not created equal as there are over 10 times the dynamic range in the first watt than in the second.

atomicAdam
10-13-2011, 03:28 PM
I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just worried about the quality of sound. When I've run 89db speakers off of 15W or 5W or 16W tube or D-amps sometimes issues come up. Highs can be thinner than normal - bass can lack punch - or other things. I believe in low watts if that is what the speaker is designed for - but it if isn't - why try to fit the wrong foot in the shoe?

JohnMichael
10-14-2011, 12:25 PM
I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just worried about the quality of sound. When I've run 89db speakers off of 15W or 5W or 16W tube or D-amps sometimes issues come up. Highs can be thinner than normal - bass can lack punch - or other things. I believe in low watts if that is what the speaker is designed for - but it if isn't - why try to fit the wrong foot in the shoe?




Adam the bass of the RS6's when driven by the Krell is incredible. Assuming the AntiCables in use. I have a childhood friend who always claimed he did not like loud music. I put in the Black Eyed Peas END and he was surprised by the sound. Having the remote in hand I slowly turned up the volume. He continued to be amazed. He said he did not realize how loud we were listening until I stopped the cd. I do not think he had ever heard a low noise and distortion system before. I have heard some of his budget stereo's. He was used to distortion and noise when music was played loud. The power of the Krell certainly controls the drivers. Bass is strong, tight and rhythmic and I think it takes watts and current to keep the woofers under control.

atomicAdam
10-14-2011, 12:45 PM
Adam the bass of the RS6's when driven by the Krell is incredible. Assuming the AntiCables in use. I have a childhood friend who always claimed he did not like loud music. I put in the Black Eyed Peas END and he was surprised by the sound. Having the remote in hand I slowly turned up the volume. He continued to be amazed. He said he did not realize how loud we were listening until I stopped the cd. I do not think he had ever heard a low noise and distortion system before. I have heard some of his budget stereo's. He was used to distortion and noise when music was played loud. The power of the Krell certainly controls the drivers. Bass is strong, tight and rhythmic and I think it takes watts and current to keep the woofers under control.

I can believe that. If I had had the option to try the RS6 with a amplifier that had the control over the low end - like say Krell - or in my current case the AN211 (though 16W would probably not be enough in this case) it could have been a much different story for my ears. Except - the more none metal tweeters I hear, at least in the entry level price range, the more happy I am not to have any in my home at the moment.

At the moment though I'm considering a pair of M 1.7.... so IDK what that says.

JohnMichael
10-14-2011, 01:26 PM
I can believe that. If I had had the option to try the RS6 with a amplifier that had the control over the low end - like say Krell - or in my current case the AN211 (though 16W would probably not be enough in this case) it could have been a much different story for my ears. Except - the more none metal tweeters I hear, at least in the entry level price range, the more happy I am not to have any in my home at the moment.

At the moment though I'm considering a pair of M 1.7.... so IDK what that says.


You might want to ask Paul for a sample of AntiCables to test. I am so surprised and cannot possibly explain why the AC's removed all my previous complaints about the metal drivers of the RS6's.

I went from trying to like the speakers after several months to finally loving them.

Poultrygeist
10-14-2011, 03:08 PM
In my book 91 db speakers are pretty dang efficient. My Frugal Horns Mk3s are 93 db and they'll reach 100 dbs without distortion with only 2.5 watts. While the Frugals also sound good with my friend's 200 watt Classe power amp, the 2.5 watt SET has the better first watt. With 91 db speakers you have the opportunity of hearing what's happening in that first watt ( where the inner detail resides ) because you can attain a listening level with that single watt. What you choose to produce that first watt makes all the difference.

JohnMichael
11-27-2011, 12:39 PM
The RS6's are back in the closet and the OML1's are in use. The RS6's never developed the complaints I had about them in the past. I found I was missing the sound of the OML1's. I am going to set the RS6's in my dogs bedroom and try them with the Onkyo A9555 class D integrated amp. I do not know why I have never tried this combination.

As good as the RS6's were sounding something must have still been wrong to my ears to make me miss the OML1's. Once I fire up the OML1's I notice the flow of the music and with the RS6's I notice fast transients. I think they are both good speakers for the same list price but I now know I am more of a rhythm and flow fan than a fast transient fan.

I almost think the RS6's would sound good with a tube amp. I am curious how they will sound with the class D Onkyo. My complaints other than a lack of flow and rhythm came from using the AQ Slates. Once they were replaced the system improved. My dream speaker may be one that combines the best of both.

Ajani
11-27-2011, 06:42 PM
The RS6's are back in the closet and the OML1's are in use. The RS6's never developed the complaints I had about them in the past. I found I was missing the sound of the OML1's. I am going to set the RS6's in my dogs bedroom and try them with the Onkyo A9555 class D integrated amp. I do not know why I have never tried this combination.

As good as the RS6's were sounding something must have still been wrong to my ears to make me miss the OML1's. Once I fire up the OML1's I notice the flow of the music and with the RS6's I notice fast transients. I think they are both good speakers for the same list price but I now know I am more of a rhythm and flow fan than a fast transient fan.

I almost think the RS6's would sound good with a tube amp. I am curious how they will sound with the class D Onkyo. My complaints other than a lack of flow and rhythm came from using the AQ Slates. Once they were replaced the system improved. My dream speaker may be one that combines the best of both.

What truly puzzles me in the months I've followed your various threads about going back and forth between preferring the Monitor Audios or the OML 1's is: why does your dog have a bedroom?

That issue aside, I think your problem is probably just that you've outgrown the $1K price range for speakers... I'm sure both the RS6 and OML 1 are excellent speakers in their own rights, but maybe it's time you start saving for the next level... I'm sure your electronics are good enough to handle anything up to at least $5K... So you could get speakers that combine the best of both the OML 1 and the RS6 and then some...

JohnMichael
11-28-2011, 06:20 AM
What truly puzzles me in the months I've followed your various threads about going back and forth between preferring the Monitor Audios or the OML 1's is: why does your dog have a bedroom?

That issue aside, I think your problem is probably just that you've outgrown the $1K price range for speakers... I'm sure both the RS6 and OML 1 are excellent speakers in their own rights, but maybe it's time you start saving for the next level... I'm sure your electronics are good enough to handle anything up to at least $5K... So you could get speakers that combine the best of both the OML 1 and the RS6 and then some...



I had a rescue human for 13 months and when he left it just made sense that the dog I rescued would take over that room. His room has the en suite. When he developed a back strain I bought him a cute Ottoman he could use to get up on his bed easier. He has the room but I have the large walk-in closet in the room.

I agree that one day I need to pry open the wallet and invest in some new speakers. In the old days when I had the time and audio stores were plentiful I would spend weeks auditioning speakers. Sadly that is very difficult these days. I would need to be very sure before I spent big money. The size of my room is also limiting.

frenchmon
11-29-2011, 05:39 AM
What truly puzzles me in the months I've followed your various threads about going back and forth between preferring the Monitor Audios or the OML 1's is: why does your dog have a bedroom?

That issue aside, I think your problem is probably just that you've outgrown the $1K price range for speakers... I'm sure both the RS6 and OML 1 are excellent speakers in their own rights, but maybe it's time you start saving for the next level... I'm sure your electronics are good enough to handle anything up to at least $5K... So you could get speakers that combine the best of both the OML 1 and the RS6 and then some...

Yeah...I wondered about the dog as well.

And I think you are correct as well about JM and moving up in speaker... I know I am in the market for new speakers as my Canton, Nola's and Paradigm Mini Monitors are not doing the Job any more. All it took was a listen to some good Canton's and Revels in the $3k all the way to $12K for me to get spoiled.

Ajani
11-29-2011, 07:13 AM
And I think you are correct as well about JM and moving up in speaker... I know I am in the market for new speakers as my Canton, Nola's and Paradigm Mini Monitors are not doing the Job any more. All it took was a listen to some good Canton's and Revels in the $3k all the way to $12K for me to get spoiled.

Yep, that's essentially the problem I'm faced with as well... I prefer towers to monitors and all the towers I really like are in the 4K+ range (by the time I take into account shipping and custom duties - a $4K speaker can cost anywhere from $6K to $8K)...

JohnMichael
11-29-2011, 12:36 PM
Yep, that's essentially the problem I'm faced with as well... I prefer towers to monitors and all the towers I really like are in the 4K+ range (by the time I take into account shipping and custom duties - a $4K speaker can cost anywhere from $6K to $8K)...



If I get serious about spending more than $2,000 on a pair of speakers I would need to do a lot of auditioning. I guess $1,000 is my comfort point about buying speakers with short auditions. If I spend $2,000 or more I would need to be sure I could happily live with them for a number of years.

Maybe my next vacation should be in a city with a number of audio shops where I can audition speakers. I do live fairly close to a store that sells 3A's which I like. I can also hear some B&W's that I have not heard is a long time. Two hours from home I could hear the Devore line of speakers. I think I hear the OML1's sounding better all the time.

JohnMichael
11-29-2011, 06:35 PM
Not only do I have my own bedroom I shed on his couch. Trying to take a nap and he is playing Mahler again. After I took him on a two hour walk I thought he would let me rest.

Ajani
11-30-2011, 06:28 AM
If I get serious about spending more than $2,000 on a pair of speakers I would need to do a lot of auditioning. I guess $1,000 is my comfort point about buying speakers with short auditions. If I spend $2,000 or more I would need to be sure I could happily live with them for a number of years.

Maybe my next vacation should be in a city with a number of audio shops where I can audition speakers. I do live fairly close to a store that sells 3A's which I like. I can also hear some B&W's that I have not heard is a long time. Two hours from home I could hear the Devore line of speakers. I think I hear the OML1's sounding better all the time.

Yep.... Unless you have a lot of disposable income, the last thing you'd want is to invest in a $5K pair of speakers and then end up cycling them in and out of the closet with the RS6's and OML 1's... You really want to pick something that will provide you musical satisfaction for a long time...

JohnMichael
11-30-2011, 08:37 AM
Yep.... Unless you have a lot of disposable income, the last thing you'd want is to invest in a $5K pair of speakers and then end up cycling them in and out of the closet with the RS6's and OML 1's... You really want to pick something that will provide you musical satisfaction for a long time...


Yes I would have to be sure before dropping that much money. I do think if I had to choose between speakers the OML1's are closer in sound to my ideal.

Not only do I switch speakers I also switch IC's. Last night I replaced the DNM Reson IC's with the Alphacore Triode Quartz 2 IC's. If I switch speakers I need to remember to switch IC's. TQ2's with the OML1's and the DNM's with the RS6's. The speakers sound best with the right IC's.

I find the AntiCables to be very revealing of changes in the rest of the components. It is easier to tell the difference in IC's and in various tweaks. The Sound Improvement Disc for the cd player is a great tweak that minimizes laser scatter through the disc. Less scatter and the error correction does not have to make as many corrections. I have used it off and on in the past but now I hear the benefits all the time.

As I have reduced noise using filtering and vibrations with better equipment rack and speaker stands I can hear changes more easily. I am very happy with the sound using my current combination of components. I am going to not change a thing for the month of December and evaluate my system at the end of the month. I think then I will know what I need or that I need to stop making changes and enjoy what I have. Is there a tweakers anonymous? I need a sponsor.

cceemmee
12-21-2011, 04:17 AM
Had a pair gave to my X, blowed the tweeters. Good speakers though. Not for my field though. Had to go back to old school'

frenchmon
12-21-2011, 04:55 AM
Yep, that's essentially the problem I'm faced with as well... I prefer towers to monitors and all the towers I really like are in the 4K+ range (by the time I take into account shipping and custom duties - a $4K speaker can cost anywhere from $6K to $8K)...

Ajani...I got an invite from a audio buddy to come and take a listen to Revel Salon2s today. They will be paired with Levinson No. 433, and maybe No. 532H a little later. I was also offered to try out a pair of Revel Performa M22's. Its going to be a fun Christmas round here. The new Canton Ventos will soon be using the ceramic tweeter like the Canton Reference series...and the SL series will be more like the Vento series only in a lesser cabinet.....Gotta go and pick Mr. Peabody, let him share in the fun.

Cheers....

JohnMichael
12-22-2011, 08:42 AM
Since I moved the RS6's closer together with less toe-in the sound is more balanced. Instead of the tweeters pointing at my ears they converge further back from my sitting position. Soundstage is not as large but imaging is better and highs are airier off axis. Until I have time to shop I am going to work with them for the best sound they can give. I do enjoy the deeper bass over the OML1's.

JohnMichael
12-24-2011, 11:14 PM
I am finished trying to find musical happiness with the RS6's. Today I had plenty of time listening to them and I began to ask myself if I still liked music. I was wondering if I had lost interest when I was playing some of my favorite music through the RS6's. The notes were all there but I was enjoying them less. I bet they would do home theater quite well but music in a two channel system they do not cut it. I guess it is time to realize that I spent money on them but they are the wrong speakers for me and there is nothing I can do to make myself enjoy them. Other than the bass for annoying the students living in the apartment below they have no use.

The OML1's are on their stands and the Emmerson Quartet is playing. The OML1's will keep you up late.

JohnMichael
01-02-2012, 10:47 AM
Several of you were right and I was wrong. Last night out of curiosity I removed the lower woofer from the cabinet. I now realize the problem with the sound is room resonances and not the cabinets. The RS6 is a well braced enclosure.

When I had the woofer out I saw a brace above and below the lower woofer. The braces varied in the number and size of holes for internal air flow. They looked to be either 3/4 or 1 inch thick. The enclosure was lined with sheets of foam that were also fairly thick. The internal wiring looked to be serious cabling and not thin hook-up wires. All in all surprised by the quality considering the price.

So for all the Monitor Audio fans they do make a well made cabinet.

frenchmon
01-02-2012, 06:06 PM
Just so you'd know....I enjoy your episodes and incident in your audio life and discovery. Thanks for letting me come alone on your journey.

Ajani
01-02-2012, 06:25 PM
Just so you'd know....I enjoy your episodes and incident in your audio life and discovery. Thanks for letting me come alone on your journey.

??? Are you two having a secret audio affair that the rest of us are unaware of?

:D

(I suspect that was a typo, and you meant "come along")

Seriously though, I think many of us appreciate the insight into another audiophile's journey...

Maybe we should all start audio blogs to chronicle our adventures and misadventures in HiFi... Might make for some fun reading + we might be able to get tips from each other and avoid making each other's mistakes...

Ajani
01-02-2012, 06:28 PM
Several of you were right and I was wrong. Last night out of curiosity I removed the lower woofer from the cabinet. I now realize the problem with the sound is room resonances and not the cabinets. The RS6 is a well braced enclosure.

When I had the woofer out I saw a brace above and below the lower woofer. The braces varied in the number and size of holes for internal air flow. They looked to be either 3/4 or 1 inch thick. The enclosure was lined with sheets of foam that were also fairly thick. The internal wiring looked to be serious cabling and not thin hook-up wires. All in all surprised by the quality considering the price.

So for all the Monitor Audio fans they do make a well made cabinet.

I'm sure us MA fans were already convinced that the speakers are well made... No need to eat too much crow (I'm sure we all enjoy a healthy serving of it on a regular basis in this hobby)...

Well made or not, the fact remains that the speakers just don't do it for you, so it's time to put them on audiogon and find the right speakers for you...

frenchmon
01-03-2012, 08:10 AM
LOL! Thanks for the correction.

ursus262
01-09-2012, 11:30 PM
I've followed this thread with interest, for I also have RS6 speakers. What I have found is that these speakers are generally well-balanced and do most things well, be it Mozart or The Prodigy (I actually love both!).

The RS6s are very fussy about positioning, and I find that the degree of toe-in is a compromise between imaging and bass response.

There are two things that you could try: you could use sorbethane sheets or granite sheets under each speaker to see if that makes any difference to the sound. I couldn't tell from the photo if you use spiked feet directly into the floor through the carpet, but I'm not convinced that that actually works in most cases.