phono cable

[frenchmon]

Just wondering if anybody has had experience with Ortofon phono cable or any of their cables?

[frenchmon]

Wow...no one has tried this cable....they at least look interesting....

http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=173&Itemid=165

[E-Stat]

Wow...no one has tried this cable....they at least look interesting..
Yet the technical specifications omit the single most important metric for use with MM cartridges - capacitance. One must know the answer in order to optimize their system for a given model.

rw

[atomicAdam]

Yet the technical specifications omit the single most important metric for use with MM cartridges - capacitance. One must know the answer in order to optimize their system for a given model.

rw

Agreed - I was looking for that as well. Getting the Capacitance and Impedance in a cable to match your gear is what you want to look for. Not only that - I'd assume your table has interconnect options at the back, not just a cable that goes from your table to the phono amp - per my Rega - which I oh so enjoy... - anyways. You want to find out what will match your cartridge/table and phono amp.

[frenchmon]

Oh....yes you right...never noticed that. My dealer can get them...im hoping he has more information about them.

[Enochrome]

Speaking of phono cables, what is the sonic benefit of balanced xlr's over rca's? If their is any? I have seen the Jelco phono cables bought frequently, but it seems that the Ortofons are just as sought after but more highly regarded due the premium in price that people are willing to pay.

[E-Stat]

Oh....yes you right...never noticed that. My dealer can get them...im hoping he has more information about them.
The top end response of moving magnet cartridges is highly affected by capacitance. Too much and it goes away. Recently, I replaced a Bellari VP-129 phono pre with a NAD C-160. While the Bellari sounded decent, it didn't have enough gain to drive the Threshold amp very loudly. Initially, however, the NAD sounded horribly dull on top. Hmmm. Time to do the math. The Shure M97x cartridge wants to see 250 pF. I discovered the NAD has 475 pF! in addition to 47 pF for the SME arm wiring and another 140 pF for the DH Labs cable for a total of 662 pF! No wonder it sounded so dull.

I cracked the case on the NAD to assess the situation. What I found were three ceramic disc capacitors: two at 101 pF and one 220 pF. Despite the fact that there are no "user serviceable parts", I removed (desoldered) the 220 and one of the 101s. That left 154 pF. Recently, I had purchased a capacitance meter and now knew the values for various spare cables I had lying around. Turns out, a pair of AR video cables had only 60 pF. Using those with the newly reduced value in the preamp got the total down to around 260 pF - close enough. The top end was substantially better.

Lesson: it sure helps if you know the value for cables when used with MM cartridges.

rw

[basite]

Well,

I use this one (http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=169&Itemid=162)...

I'm happy with it. I now use it with my Jelco SA-750D. Before that, I used it with a Rega RB301, and it was a big improvement over the stock cable. They also have a really sturdy feel about them, good quality materials too...

I have no experience with interconnects, but they sure do look promising :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[hifitommy]

how does one measure and then compensate for discrepancies without invasive procedures like soldering? there must be a way for each.

[frenchmon]

Well,

I use this one (http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=169&Itemid=162)...

I'm happy with it. I now use it with my Jelco SA-750D. Before that, I used it with a Rega RB301, and it was a big improvement over the stock cable. They also have a really sturdy feel about them, good quality materials too...

I have no experience with interconnects, but they sure do look promising :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

What are the price range of the phono cables?

[E-Stat]

how does one measure and then compensate for discrepancies without invasive procedures like soldering? there must be a way for each.
I'm not sure I understand the question, but in my case the SME arm has hardwired cabling from the shell to the base where they attach to jacks. You can then use any IC you wish. Same is true for my Souther TQ-1.

rw

[hifitommy]

ralph, i was talking about the capacitance.

[E-Stat]

i was talking about the capacitance.
You clip one lead of a capacitance meter to a hot leg and the other to a ground on either side of a cable. Set the range and go!

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/capacitance_meter.jpg

rw

[hifitommy]

how much is one of those? its not quite your basic vom.

also, is there an external way of altering the capacitance? like the impedance tricks you can do with y connectors and resistors.

[frenchmon]

how much is one of those? its not quite your basic vom.

also, is there an external way of altering the capacitance? like the impedance tricks you can do with y connectors and resistors.

I found an online price for the phono at $230. 1m

EDIT: Oh you are talking about the meter...my bad.

[E-Stat]

how much is one of those? its not quite your basic vom.
No, it is not a conventional VOM. I got mine for $43 delivered. There was a post over at AA here (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/94/945919.html)which mentioned this unit. I've found it quite useful.


also, is there an external way of altering the capacitance? like the impedance tricks you can do with y connectors and resistors.
Well, you can always add capacitance by using inexpensive ceramic disc caps.

rw

[hifitommy]

"add capacitance by using inexpensive ceramic disc caps."

can that be done without soldering?

[Luvin Da Blues]

"add capacitance by using inexpensive ceramic disc caps."

can that be done without soldering?

Sure can, just not very well. :arf:

[E-Stat]

can that be done without soldering?
You could provide only a physical connection, but it would not be ideal. On the other hand, you could solder the caps across an otherwise "empty" phono plug and plug it and another cable into a Y adapter. In that way, you are not doing anything irreversible to other components.

Pic of approach (http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=vinyl&n=848566&highlight=Y+adaptor+resistor&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fauthor%3DDeco-Doctor%26forum%3DALL%26sortRank%3DNone%26sort%3Dda te%26sortOrder%3DDESC).

rw

[hifitommy]

i must be chewing gum again. i meant to specify soldering on the circuit board. the Y adaptor trick as used with resistors for impedance adjustment would of course require soldering. does anybody have some spare lithium capsules?

[E-Stat]

i must be chewing gum again. i meant to specify soldering on the circuit board. the Y adaptor trick as used with resistors for impedance adjustment would of course require soldering.
I guess it depends whether your concern has to do with messing with an otherwise functioning unit - or just the notion of soldering at all. Some folks just don't want to have to open up their preamp, locating exactly where to add the resistors and/or caps, and solder on the board potentially voiding the warranty. The Y adapter trick avoids that for adding resistance or capacitance. On the other hand, if you don't have a soldering iron, then you'd have to use the physical contact approach twisting the leads tightly.

rw

[hifitommy]

yeah, i have a soldering iron and dont mind a little ofdoing that,as you say, i dont want to mess with a board and a permanent change.

i havent been using mm carts for a while but i will soon as i have some good ones.

[frenchmon]

The top end response of moving magnet cartridges is highly affected by capacitance. Too much and it goes away. Recently, I replaced a Bellari VP-129 phono pre with a NAD C-160. While the Bellari sounded decent, it didn't have enough gain to drive the Threshold amp very loudly. Initially, however, the NAD sounded horribly dull on top. Hmmm. Time to do the math. The Shure M97x cartridge wants to see 250 pF. I discovered the NAD has 475 pF! in addition to 47 pF for the SME arm wiring and another 140 pF for the DH Labs cable for a total of 662 pF! No wonder it sounded so dull.

I cracked the case on the NAD to assess the situation. What I found were three ceramic disc capacitors: two at 101 pF and one 220 pF. Despite the fact that there are no "user serviceable parts", I removed (desoldered) the 220 and one of the 101s. That left 154 pF. Recently, I had purchased a capacitance meter and now knew the values for various spare cables I had lying around. Turns out, a pair of AR video cables had only 60 pF. Using those with the newly reduced value in the preamp got the total down to around 260 pF - close enough. The top end was substantially better.

Lesson: it sure helps if you know the value for cables when used with MM cartridges.

rw

E-Stat...this is valuable to me...thanks.