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NhojGnol
02-03-2011, 06:07 AM
Greetings,

This has probably been asked before but after searching I wasn't having any luck so here goes; (Dons flameproof suit)

When you are auditioning equipment, be it amps, speakers, receivers, cd players etc, what do you use as "reference"/"audition" music. I mean do you have a set list of favorite songs from across your collection or a more specific list that really helps to accentuate the qualities of the gear?

I listen to a wide variety of music, mostly Rock (70's to 90's) classical, jazz, Some techno, and various others, both instrumental and vocal.

My Thanks
Nhoj

rakeford
02-03-2011, 06:39 AM
Welcome to AR.

My standard check-out CDs are:

Santana ~ Supernatural, the whole CD
Dire Straights ~ Brothers In Arms
Stevie Ray Vaughn ~ Texas Flood

for bass:
Fleetwood Mac ~ Tusk, the song.

I don't have a "Stereo Test CD" like my Realistic "Stereo Test Record" LP. Anybody know of a good "Stereo Test CD"?

mlsstl
02-03-2011, 07:12 AM
I try to avoid "audiophile" recordings and instead use the music I prefer for routine listening.

My particular reference points are recordings of acoustic instruments and voice that could be played live in my listening room. If the system gets the tonality and image of that right, then I find I'm probably going to be pretty happy with how it plays other material such as large scale music or more processed/artificial stuff such as rock & pop.

For example, last weekend I spent some time listening to a pair of Harbeth speakers. I brought about 20 CDs with me and listened to a very eclectic range. One CD was from a local folk singer I've heard live in a coffee house, another was a recording from a very early Ozark Mountain Daredevils practice session at their farm house retreat outside Springfield Missouri where I was present. There was some Empire Brass quintet material, liturgical pieces from the Boston Camerata, Ronnie Magri's "Shim Sham Revue" (New Orleans style jazz), some Mozart solo piano by Ingrid Haebler, a cut or two from Spirit, Neil Katzman & Ruby Green plus some Madeline Peyroux.

There were a few other pieces, but you get the idea. A very wide variety of music that I enjoy. Next time I listen to some new equipment the list will likely be quite different, but still have the same underlying logic.

atomicAdam
02-03-2011, 07:44 AM
NhojGnol - Welcome to AudioReview.

For me I typically bring 4 CDs.

One being a dynamically shifting classical CD - typically Heifetz playing Tchaikovsky.
Second being a simple but emotional Piano piece - I've got a couple to choose from.
Third - for bass - typically Massive Attack's Mezzanine or Ratatat - they use real and electronic bass
Fourth - something I'm familiar with and like to listen to - Sufjan Stevens - Broken Social Scene - Miles Davis - really any thing from my collection that I tend to listen to a lot and have heard on a variety of systems.

I heard a good test piece the other day. It was a movie sound track with a lot of deep bass and at points horns would come in. It was great at showing the weakness in a system's dynamic range and ability to play it all.

Typically complex and dynamic music is best to judge a systems performance level. Rock, techno, blues, etc, while fantastic music, most of the time just doesn't demand as much from a speaker as some heavy classical pieces. Now I know there are always examples so before people just down my throat - I admit - there are always examples in the genera - I'm just generalizing. There are also a lot of boring and simple classical pieces that don't put a system through the ringers.

Also I don't really care if a disc is considered 'audiophile' grade. In my opinion, that doesn't even mean anything when it comes to a recorded disc. The whole point of an audiophile system is to play music back, either completely transparently, or in such a way that pleases your ear with your favorite music.

Hyfi
02-03-2011, 09:01 AM
Welcome to AR.


Santana ~ Supernatural, the whole CD


Although I really love this disk and it does sound pretty good, the whole thing is so overly compressed for radio play that it really starts to get to me at loud volume halfway through a listen. I also heard it played through Wilson Grand Slams with mega buck components and it still sounded too compressed.

Luvin Da Blues
02-03-2011, 09:29 AM
Since I'm mostly computer based, I keep a playlist of all the well recorded stuff. I just cherry pick from that list to create an audition specific disk.

I might use different tunes for speaker auditions vs. source vs. preamp/amp. etc.

(O0o*o0O)
02-03-2011, 01:27 PM
I do a lot of buying, selling, and trading. Over the last few years I've landed on a CD that I use first in demoing anything. Its just solid digitally clear music and perfect for letting yourself know or your customer know what your getting.
I came across this album not by any preference, but rather the fact that it started with a B in the top shelf corner of my collection. Its the Black Eye Peas, Elephunk album. I play it first for every customer then generally onto Classical or their choice.
I've always liked Lenny Kravitz, AC/DC, or something Industrial.

Sony STR-DA50ES Receiver
Sony TA-N77ES Amplifier(mod)
Sony CDP-C77ES CD Changer
Sony RM-TP501 Remote
Cerwin Vega LS6C Center Channel
Cerwin Vega LS-12 Front Channels(mod)
Cerwin Vega AT-15 Front Channels
Cerwin Vega HT-S15 Subwoofer
Klipsch SF2 Rear Channels

mlsstl
02-03-2011, 04:02 PM
...Its the Black Eye Peas, Elephunk album. I play it first for every customer....

If that was the first thing an audio salesperson played for me, I'd leave the store. ;-)

I know the group is very popular with a younger crowd, but talk about an over-processed victim of the loudness wars, whew! Here's "Hands Up" from that album.

http://www.rzootoo.com/image/bep_handsup.jpg

Pat D
02-03-2011, 07:02 PM
Greetings,

This has probably been asked before but after searching I wasn't having any luck so here goes; (Dons flameproof suit)

When you are auditioning equipment, be it amps, speakers, receivers, cd players etc, what do you use as "reference"/"audition" music. I mean do you have a set list of favorite songs from across your collection or a more specific list that really helps to accentuate the qualities of the gear?

I listen to a wide variety of music, mostly Rock (70's to 90's) classical, jazz, Some techno, and various others, both instrumental and vocal.

My Thanks
Nhoj

In the first place, I try to avoid auditioning speakers that aren't pretty good. I don't consider subjective reviews very reliable, so if possible, I look at the measured results on Soundstage, Stereophile, and perhaps Audio Ideas Guide. Research has shown that most people with normal hearing favor the same sorts of performance characteristics in speakers. Some people seem to be deeply offended that I prefer to have some good measured results to peruse. My advice to someone who doesn't want to bother with measurements is to ignore them. I couldn't tell you how many times I've told that to RGA over the years. If a number of subjective reviews favor a speaker, I'll consider that, too. Remember, all I'm doing so far is making up a list of speakers I would like to audition.

I have a small number of recordings, really different tracks on CDs, which experience has shown can tell me in a few minutes quite a lot about what a speaker will do, and in particular, can show up some things I definitely do NOT like. You probably couldn't find some of them (not that they're anything special, just not easily available), and might not suit you anyway. Any speakers that do well go on a short list, and I will then try out a lot of other recordings. But for a first audition, I carry at least recordings of with some examples:

Full orchestra with massed strings (Mozart or Beethoven symphony)
Male vocals (Roger Whittaker, Mark Knopfler, Clancy Brothers, opera singers)
Female vocals (Diana Krall, Angele Arsenault, opera singers)
Mixed Chorus (Requiems by Mozart or Brahms, Handel's Messiah)
Piano (Horowitz, Earl Wild, etc.)

But you will need to choose what recordings you want to use, and what you want them to tell you.

Any speakers that pass the initial auditions with flying colors get on my short list, and I want to try them out with a lot more recordings, and if I really like them, I want a home trial.

NhojGnol
02-03-2011, 07:38 PM
I just wanted to post a "Thanks" to everyone that has responded. You certainly have given me a lot to reread and digest!! I appreciate the different viewpoints and suggestions.

I hope to have some time this weekend to sit down and really "listen" to some of the different pieces that are suggested and some that are from my "usual" collection and see how it comes together.

Please keep the suggestions coming! I'm really enjoying the chance to learn a 'little bit" and branch out some :)

Nhoj

(O0o*o0O)
02-03-2011, 08:03 PM
If that was the first thing an audio salesperson played for me, I'd leave the store. ;-)

I know the group is very popular with a younger crowd, but talk about an over-processed victim of the loudness wars, whew! Here's "Hands Up" from that album.

http://www.rzootoo.com/image/bep_handsup.jpg

Nice, is that what it looks like?
I knew I picked a winner. I didn't say I was a fan or anything and I'd rather put on Danzig. Most my customers are into Classical and Jazz so it always swings that way. For a quick all over view and sound check Elephunk is in now more then ever.
Great idea, thanks.
I just don't want something scratchy or confusing to the ear. Something that will bump without weakness and push out clear highs. About 60 seconds of "Hands Up" really does it for most audio checks. CD players, amplifiers, speakers of all sorts, and as you've shown equalizers with spectrum analyzer indicators.
If this is a popular question; its a good one. Its something I do every day and never really gave it much thought. Come to think about it I hate that song "Hands Up" after hearing it so much. But it does inform the neighbors that I'm with a customer or testing out something.:cornut:

mlsstl
02-03-2011, 08:11 PM
Nice, is that what it looks like? I knew I picked a winner.

To each his own. The group is all yours!

(PS, that's not a spectrum analyzer chart. The Adobe Audition display shows volume - this clip is pervasively over-clipped.)

Feanor
02-04-2011, 06:32 AM
I'm almost exclusively a classical music listener and, accordingly, my reference recordings are all classical. Make no mistake though: classical music provides a huge variety of sound.

In particular I like to used large-scale choral music for equipment evalution. There is simply no better test for resolution and transparency. I use orchestral music too, and chamber music which is useful for evaluating the reproduction of instrument timbres.

Some like to use a mix of good and bad (or at least not so good) recordings for evalution. I tend to use 95% excellent recordings, though I sometimes include one or two with specific defects, e.g. exaggerated treble.

Here are some of my reference selections ...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51aC-%2BUVCNL._SL500_AA300_.jpg ... Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Requiem-Turtle-Creek-Chorale/dp/B00000159K/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296829054&sr=1-10)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61GFCNGEJZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg ... Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Motets-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B0000007AX/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296828958&sr=1-3)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51G4NZZTZ1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg ... Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-1-Gustav/dp/B00006L3X0/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296829118&sr=1-2)

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/5c/22/0f3fe03ae7a07944447ee110.L._AA300_.jpg ... Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Arvo-P%C3%A4rt-Profundis-Part/dp/B0000007FL/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296829289&sr=1-2)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41542AKoNbL._SL500_AA300_.jpg ... Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Das-Lied-von-Erde/dp/B00000K04W/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296829621&sr=1-2)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51z2U9qKgTL._AA300_.jpg ... Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-SCHEHERAZADE-London-PO-Serebrier/dp/B00001X52M/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296829753&sr=1-1)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61qcjYlwwKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg ... Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-String-Quartets-Ludwig-van/dp/B00067R3BG/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1296829865&sr=1-1)

JoeE SP9
02-04-2011, 11:49 AM
(O0o*o0O), You may have misunderstood the point of mlsstl's post.

It shows the almost complete lack of dynamic range in that recording. Unfortunately a large number of popular music recordings are overly compressed like the example. Lack of dynamic range in popular recordings is a routine and well founded complaint here and on most other audio oriented forums. Classical and Jazz recordings usually don't suffer from much if any compression. Audiophile recordings by definition shouldn't have any compression or studio "sweetening".

Demo quality recordings I use:
Jacintha Here's To Ben
Tim Weisberg Undercover
Holly Cole Don't Smoke in Bed
These three were recorded without a lot of studio "sweetening". The Jacintha was recorded direct to a 2track master from which the CD was made. Of course there are others I use for auditioning including LP's if possible. Just about any Chesky recording is demo quality.

Santana's Supernatural is known to suffer from over compression. IMO it's not "demo" quality. I have it and a 12" DJ single of Maria Maria. The LP is less compressed.

(O0o*o0O)
02-04-2011, 12:23 PM
I'll take your word on it. With your set-up I suppose you can tell what an artist had for lunch by the rumble of his stomach.
Massive Attack is awesome and a great idea to bring along.
Anyone here into Mr. Bungle? How about Buckethead?
Lets talk about some meters moving and those classical albums pictured in here now. I'm going to look for a few of those in the used section. I'm not very versed on classical music, and there's a question.
What classical tracks light up the meters?

atomicAdam
02-04-2011, 12:46 PM
I'll take your word on it. With your set-up I suppose you can tell what an artist had for lunch by the rumble of his stomach.
Massive Attack is awesome and a great idea to bring along.
Anyone here into Mr. Bungle? How about Buckethead?
Lets talk about some meters moving and those classical albums pictured in here now. I'm going to look for a few of those in the used section. I'm not very versed on classical music, and there's a question.
What classical tracks light up the meters?

From the Mr. Bungle I've heard I liked it - but never enough to seek it out on my own. Maybe I should. That guy is a bit of a trip.

I tend to lean towards more aggressive classical music most of the time - so Tchaikovsky or Wagner are great composers to start with. Something with dynamic shift that knocks your socks off.

JoeE SP9
02-04-2011, 04:47 PM
I'll take your word on it. With your set-up I suppose you can tell what an artist had for lunch by the rumble of his stomach.
Massive Attack is awesome and a great idea to bring along.
Anyone here into Mr. Bungle? How about Buckethead?
Lets talk about some meters moving and those classical albums pictured in here now. I'm going to look for a few of those in the used section. I'm not very versed on classical music, and there's a question.
What classical tracks light up the meters?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "light up the meters".Are you looking for just loud sound or good sound? If you're looking for dynamics you could try The Firebird on Telarc CD. If you set the music volume at a nice level the bass drum thwacks will make you jump and raise the hair on the back of your neck.

If you're overly concerned with volume an SPL (sound pressure level) meter will let you know exactly how loud things actually are in dB's. Radio Shack has a fairly decent digital SPL meter for around $50. dB ratings are the only accurate and meaningful way to express how loud something is. The meters on most gear (except Mac's) are worthless for anything other than eye candy.

atomicAdam
02-04-2011, 05:08 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "light up the meters".Are you looking for just loud sound or good sound? If you're looking for dynamics you could try The Firebird on Telarc CD. If you set the music volume at a nice level the bass drum thwacks will make you jump and raise the hair on the back of your neck.

If you're overly concerned with volume an SPL (sound pressure level) meter will let you know exactly how loud things actually are in dB's. Radio Shack has a fairly decent digital SPL meter for around $50. dB ratings are the only accurate and meaningful way to express how loud something is. The meters on most gear (except Mac's) are worthless for anything other than eye candy.

those r only good for telling time.

swan24
02-04-2011, 07:09 PM
Sparse chamber music for me... If the instrumentation and timbre is right, then I know I have something going... Timpani is a good indicator... Piano, always... And solo voice... (m.)

(O0o*o0O)
02-04-2011, 07:36 PM
In classical music that's where I'm generally at. I really like Bach and I have several compilation CD's. I also want some stuff by that one guy Hitler liked. Just to piss people off.:yesnod:
Did you ever see that episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm?
As for as the meters I think I'm going out and getting one from radio shack. It will look cool and light up my life a little. I have dB meters on my amplifier, but its strictly bass and they're dials. And that voodoo cable is awesome... "I need a red eyed smiley face here"

RDS1
02-05-2011, 09:19 AM
Hi All,

Iam newbie in this forum.

My list of best cds is Dire Strait, Brother in arms

RDS1
02-05-2011, 09:20 AM
Pink Floyd, The wall

RDS1
02-05-2011, 09:20 AM
Mark knopfler, On every street

RDS1
02-05-2011, 09:21 AM
Eagles, Hell Frezze over

RDS1
02-05-2011, 09:23 AM
Mark Knopfler, Sangrila

RDS1
02-05-2011, 09:24 AM
Alan Parson, Amonnia Avenue

pixelthis
02-05-2011, 01:53 PM
GETZ AND GILBERTO.
KINDA BLUE.
A LOVE SUPREME
BOZ SCAGGS BEST
RICKI LEE JONES
EDIE BRICKELL
TIGERLILLY
to name a few.
But an album that has a good "mix" of different kinds of music is best, I have found.:1:

JoeE SP9
02-05-2011, 08:24 PM
Welcome to AR RDS1.:yesnod:
Trying to build your post count quickly?:biggrin5:

eisforelectronic
02-06-2011, 01:55 AM
I just bring things that I listen to normally

Various Sarah McLachlan cd's
Dido live at Brixton Academy
Jheena Lodwick - All My Loving
Alison Krauss - Now that I've Found You
10,000 Maniacs MTV Unplugged
and I just bought Underworld - Barking

poppachubby
02-06-2011, 07:04 AM
Honestly, to each his own. If compressed, tween-bop is what you dig around the house, then you should use it in an audition.

I think you need to take a combination of exceptional, above average recordings and regular, not so great ones. All of them should be titles that you listen to regularily. Taking only great stuff may result in getting a shock once you get home. You want to know how a system deals with average to crumby recordings as much as great ones.

One more thing on compressed music, has anyone verified the suicide rate's connection to compressed music sales? For example, Jimmy bought 20 over compressed albums last year and killed himself within a year but Suzy bought 30 compressed albums and waited for 3 years to off herself. What does it all mean?

Here are some titles I rely on...

http://bigearflux.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/paco-de-lucia-friday-night-in-san-francisco.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512EQV2BMHL._SL500_AA300_.jpghttp://images.uulyrics.com/cover/r/robbie-robertson/album-robbie-robertson.jpg
http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/c/cowboy-junkies/album-the-trinity-session.jpghttp://pixhost.info/avaxhome/c7/a9/0017a9c7_medium.jpeghttp://consequenceofsound.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/davidbowiescarymonsterscover.jpg

pixelthis
02-06-2011, 12:54 PM
I just bring things that I listen to normally

Various Sarah McLachlan cd's
Dido live at Brixton Academy
Jheena Lodwick - All My Loving
Alison Krauss - Now that I've Found You
10,000 Maniacs MTV Unplugged
and I just bought Underworld - Barking

HEY...you have the DVD of Dido at BRIXTON?
Really kick butt. Iron in a velvet glove.:1:

pixelthis
02-06-2011, 12:58 PM
Honestly, to each his own. If compressed, tween-bop is what you dig around the house, then you should use it in an audition.

I think you need to take a combination of exceptional, above average recordings and regular, not so great ones. All of them should be titles that you listen to regularily. Taking only great stuff may result in getting a shock once you get home. You want to know how a system deals with average to crumby recordings as much as great ones.

One more thing on compressed music, has anyone verified the suicide rate's connection to compressed music sales? For example, Jimmy bought 20 over compressed albums last year and killed himself within a year but Suzy bought 30 compressed albums and waited for 3 years to off herself. What does it all mean?

Here are some titles I rely on...

http://bigearflux.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/paco-de-lucia-friday-night-in-san-francisco.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512EQV2BMHL._SL500_AA300_.jpghttp://images.uulyrics.com/cover/r/robbie-robertson/album-robbie-robertson.jpg
http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/c/cowboy-junkies/album-the-trinity-session.jpghttp://pixhost.info/avaxhome/c7/a9/0017a9c7_medium.jpeghttp://consequenceofsound.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/davidbowiescarymonsterscover.jpg


Oh please!!
What is this "compressed" music that you are going on about?
And the only way any kind of music can "kill" is by breaking your heart. If you have a
prescription take it...take it now

eisforelectronic
02-07-2011, 01:47 AM
HEY...you have the DVD of Dido at BRIXTON?
Really kick butt. Iron in a velvet glove.:1:

Yes, but I play the CD much more than the DVD.

bobsticks
02-07-2011, 07:50 AM
One of the dangers of "audiophile" grade recordings is that, by nature, they're rare. Committment to excellence at all levels of the chain don't come along often. Given that, very often speakers that do the best job at maintaing a balance of detail and macrodynamics will often leave one wanting on more pedetrian works.

That in mind I have a few top performers that I'll use (Miles Davis, The MTT "Mahler", Diana Krall, etc.) mixed in with some Spoon, Front 242, Bob Marley and the like.

From a technical aspect, sound leveling is a key for me during the auditioning process but I'm not really a chart guy. Sadly, all this is for naught if the boutique's accomodations don't fairly well reflect your own listening room.

(O0o*o0O)
02-07-2011, 08:52 AM
I've really took this topic to heart. I've been listing to albums that might be a little more choice then my first post. Plus I'm starting to hate that album and that band.

Front Line Assembly's Implode CD is getting some play. Massive Attack, Enya, Bach, Die Form, and Wumpscut are all my personal choices. I like to bring albums that have terrible sound too. Bootlegs, live albums, poor recordings. Skrew!

hifitommy
02-07-2011, 03:09 PM
well now poppa, nice set of examples! to that i might add 'flight of the cosmic hippo' by bela and the flecktones. the title cut is a near perfect bass demo cut with victor wooten descending the bass line into the magma of the earth. lots of transient sounds to evaluate as well AND good music to boot.

trinity session is another bass monster, i have both cd and LP. i actually know the guy that recorded fri nite in SF, great stuff that. the ron carter/jim hall is one i will have to look for.

for dynamic range i might suggest the zubin mehta performance of 'close encounters' :

http://www.discogs.com/Zubin-Mehta-Conducting-Los-Angeles-Philharmonic-Orchestra-The-Suites-From-Star-Wars-And-Close-Encoun/release/1306122

and of course his planets with the LAphil, LP or xrcd.

pictures at an exhibition cond by lorin maazel with the cleveland orch on telarc on (if you must) cd, sacd (oyeah) or LP (if you can find one.). start the album out at normal volume and by the great gate of kiev youll be peeling your carcass off the back wall.

pixi, once again youre so far off base, this time about about compressed music. uncompressed music is what you hear LIVE. thats why it can take you by surprise by its JUMP factor. sure, the music is still there after compression but the life of it is gone and it becmes less interesting and stimulating. in a quiet environment, uncompressed music will allow you to hear the softest of brush strokes on a cymbal yet when the band is going full tilt, it wont distort the amps.

btw, i am the one who just recently suggested YOU take your meds, cant you be original at least?

back to you poppa, that parkers mood is one i will look for. all great musicians.

audiophile discs arent required for demonstration of good sound, most music except the over-compressed crap they try to jam us with lately is more than adequate for the purpose.

one disc that i use thats STUPID loud for showing how you can pressurize a room is skinny puppy's-the process. it will shut anybody up if they say your system doesnt have bass or loudness capability. the air becomes JELLO.

Luvin Da Blues
02-08-2011, 09:07 AM
Just had another listen to The Beach Boys - Good Vibrations. Ear candy at it's best and great for spatial cues.

hifitommy
02-08-2011, 10:23 AM
a beach boys cover band that played at disneyland was papa do run run who made an album-California Project, see link:

http://www.oldies.com/product-view/64661N.html

its very well recorded and released on telarc (that should tell you something). read the text in the link, the names torrance, love, and stamos should ring a bell. listening to this disc, you would be hard pressed to not believe they are the beach boys.

i first got the cd for cheap at the wherehouse record store when they existed and later found an LP (yeeeeHAH!). my daughter LOVES this album as do i.