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kiwi32
01-15-2011, 02:38 PM
Hello,
Second and last question about my setup.
I am in a relatively small bedroom.It's my secondary listening place.My speaker palcement is not optimum but it does sounds pretty nice and suprizingly the fact its a small room makes a boucing effect that can be suprizingly not bad at times.

Lately I decide to add a subwoofer to my pair of Energy 4.1e speakers( http://arm.in/n8Y )
and I am having an hard time setting it up.First some pics of the sub:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTITTaT_ubI/AAAAAAAAJK8/PdvTZeFmhoc/s800/DSCF9323.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTITvL59CfI/AAAAAAAAJLM/Blf76abeXzA/s800/DSCF9324.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIUlLxCSaI/AAAAAAAAJLg/NzS9LFk4pos/s800/DSCF9325.JPG

The questions I have are related to the volume,cross over level and connections.The back of the sub goes as follows:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIVCg2R2LI/AAAAAAAAJL0/2y8H2MMxCY4/s800/DSCF9326.JPG
]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIVIa8PizI/AAAAAAAAJME/Hz8MTcu_9r4/s800/DSCF9328.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIVOarMgEI/AAAAAAAAJMU/pZTymyJMxAQ/s800/DSCF9329.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIWEx8OjcI/AAAAAAAAJMo/CBBQsrI_IGA/s800/DSCF9330.JPG

First of all,I heard I would get better results if I splitted the sub-woofer pre-out from the receiver(Harman Kardon AVR-146) and plug both splitted outputs to my 2 sub connectors.I tried yesterday,but when I plug the cable in the xover connector I lost any control of the crossover with the sub button.Should i plug only one cable going from my pre-out to my sub in or should it be splitted?

Second,how do I set the sub-woofer volume and xover properly?Am I supposed to look up the frequency range of my speakers(Which I have not be able to find online)?And since my room is small,should I just let the sub step on the speakers to get a better bass quality by setting the xover pretty high?
The volume looked easier to set,Its a tad under 5 right now(as seen on the pics) and the quantity of bass seems pretty good to my ears.Maybe a bit too high,but I will adjust later when I do another listening session.Is there anything I need to know about setting a sub's volume?

As always,thank you for you amazing help .

recoveryone
01-15-2011, 03:28 PM
First off thanks for the pic's of your sub, for it helps in thinking about the splitting issue. Here is a link that has the specs of your Engery 4.1e http://www.nrpavs.co.nz/Energy4.1e.htm I think your sub has a design that allows you to let your HK do the crossover work or do your own settings to your taste. So that may explain why when both are connected the sub cancel itself out. If from the pic's this is the position that the sub is in may be the first thing to look at:

Hardwood floors X Close in corner = boomy sound (echos)
Use an SPL meter to find the sweet spot in the room, so you can adjust speaker levels or even speaker placement

Then look at what you plan on using this setup for: Music or HT:

If Music is your choice I would do the manual crossover setting to your taste

If HT is it then let the HK control the crossover as it will tailor it to work with the source, DVD, Blu Ray........

Mr Peabody
01-15-2011, 03:49 PM
Hello,
Second and last question about my setup.
I am in a relatively small bedroom.It's my secondary listening place.My speaker palcement is not optimum but it does sounds pretty nice and suprizingly the fact its a small room makes a boucing effect that can be suprizingly not bad at times.

Lately I decide to add a subwoofer to my pair of Energy 4.1e speakers( http://arm.in/n8Y )
and I am having an hard time setting it up.First some pics of the sub:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTITTaT_ubI/AAAAAAAAJK8/PdvTZeFmhoc/s800/DSCF9323.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTITvL59CfI/AAAAAAAAJLM/Blf76abeXzA/s800/DSCF9324.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIUlLxCSaI/AAAAAAAAJLg/NzS9LFk4pos/s800/DSCF9325.JPG

The questions I have are related to the volume,cross over level and connections.The back of the sub goes as follows:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIVCg2R2LI/AAAAAAAAJL0/2y8H2MMxCY4/s800/DSCF9326.JPG
]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIVIa8PizI/AAAAAAAAJME/Hz8MTcu_9r4/s800/DSCF9328.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIVOarMgEI/AAAAAAAAJMU/pZTymyJMxAQ/s800/DSCF9329.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6Nxr4lqK4mE/TTIWEx8OjcI/AAAAAAAAJMo/CBBQsrI_IGA/s800/DSCF9330.JPG

First of all,I heard I would get better results if I splitted the sub-woofer pre-out from the receiver(Harman Kardon AVR-146) and plug both splitted outputs to my 2 sub connectors.I tried yesterday,but when I plug the cable in the xover connector I lost any control of the crossover with the sub button.Should i plug only one cable going from my pre-out to my sub in or should it be splitted?

When using the receiver's LFE or "sub" out you can usually set the crossover inside the receiver's set up menu. In this case the sub crossover should be all the way up to take it out of the signal or turn the bypass switch on if your sub has one. You should also check your manual for how many inputs to use. Many modern subs sum the input signal so only one cable is needed. This is obviously not the set up for using a stereo preamp out, in this case still use both inputs.

Second,how do I set the sub-woofer volume and xover properly?Am I supposed to look up the frequency range of my speakers(Which I have not be able to find online)?And since my room is small,should I just let the sub step on the speakers to get a better bass quality by setting the xover pretty high?
The volume looked easier to set,Its a tad under 5 right now(as seen on the pics) and the quantity of bass seems pretty good to my ears.Maybe a bit too high,but I will adjust later when I do another listening session.Is there anything I need to know about setting a sub's volume?

As always,thank you for you amazing help .

The best way to set the sub's volume if using the above configuration is with the receiver's test tone and a SPL meter. If no meter then you will have to do this by ear.
I would check your speaker's specs and begin setting your sub where the speaker's low frequency cutoff is, you will need to go up and down from there to see which blends best. For instance, if your speaker is rated 50Hz - 20kHz then begin your sub's crossover at 50Hz.
You want to tweak the volume and crossover point to where the sub blends in, you can't tell where the sub is. You want it to sound like a natural extension to your speakers.
Also, don't be afraid to play with position of the sub. Sometimes you might find in a small room the sub sounds best firing into the corner or at the back wall.

kiwi32
01-15-2011, 04:29 PM
Thank you both for your very educating replies.Here are some clarifications:


recoveryone: thanks for the link.

"So that may explain why when both are connected the sub cancel itself out."
The sub does not exactly cancels itself,but there is no Xover: it plays all the frequencies it can play.I guess that this connector is used if you have configured the X on your receiver.Since my only use with this system is music,I conclude I only need to run the cable directly to the sub input witouth splitting.

"Use an SPL meter to find the sweet spot in the room"
I do not have an SPL meter,and even if i had one,I cannot really change the speaker placement fue to the small room size.


Mr Peabody:According to the link,my speakers frequency range is:
- Frequency response : 35Hz to 22kHz +/- 3dB,&bsp; -10dB at 27Hz

The lowest frequency would be 35Hz,which is higher than the minimum 50Hz Xover on my sub.This is why I was asking about letting the sub "step over" the speakers.I also assume it can produce better lower frequencies than the speaker,so I would prefer transferring some of the bass to the sub instead of the speakers.The settings you see in the pictures are the ones that sounded best in my very quick listening session.

You want it to sound like a natural extension to your speakers.
This is what I thought.While trying to set it up yesterday,I went for the setting I felt was the more "transparent" so that verything sounded smooth and defined.

in a small room the sub sounds best firing into the corner or at the back wall.
Thats nice,since its just about the only place I could put it in the room - on the back of the room.

I guess there is no absolute answer to which xover is the best with x sub and x speakers.I will have to do it the hard way and make multiple listening session,playing with the xover until it sounds best.Don't be fooled,its not boring to do this kind of things !

Thanks for all you suggestions and help.


EDIT: Here is a small draft of my room layout(dimensions are not scaled):
http://arm.in/n90

Mash
01-15-2011, 05:25 PM
You want to focus on your mains lowest 0dB frequency- say it is 50 Hz.
Then your crossover would be 1/2 octave above that 50 Hz or 1.4 * 50 = 70 Hz
So then you would start with the sub at 70 Hz. You can tweek it up & down from there.
Start with the sub level at 0 and slowly increase it until you barely notice it. After you get used to the sound you can tweek from there but do not overdo it.
If you can center the sub on one wall (away from the corners) it should be smoother.
Maybe you can hang the sub on the wall (very carefully!) above the bed?

Mr Peabody
01-15-2011, 07:02 PM
Just from an ergonomic stand point I'd use the receiver's set up menu controls, this would allow you to adjust from your listening chair opposed to the back of the sub and doing a lot of running back and forth.

The sub under the bed might make for interesting listening while laying on the bed :)

kiwi32
01-16-2011, 08:44 AM
"Then your crossover would be 1/2 octave above that 50 Hz or 1.4 * 50 = 70 Hz"

With the express adjust I made I settled it at 80.I guess my ears weren't so wrong !:D


"Maybe you can hang the sub on the wall (very carefully!) above the bed?"

I would get killed by the "home designer" if I was to do this :lol:

Thanks for the xover setting help.


"I'd use the receiver's set up menu controls"

I would too,but the settings are not easy to understand.I'll try it again tomorrow.


"The sub under the bed might make for interesting listening"

That would be amazing ! My bed is closed tought so I don't have acess under it.Its desgined like this:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9495/b12150.jpg


Thank you for all your tips!