Zu Audio Omen Def Speakers

[atomicAdam]

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http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/IMAG0453.jpg

If you check the weather radar for SoCal right now you'll find it is windy - and yeah - I'm the reason!

[atomicAdam]

Ok I'm really liking this set up - Rega P3/24, Sumiko Evo III Blue Point Special, Moon LP3, Supra Sword IC and speaker cables, PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium, Zu Audio Omen Def.

i'm spinning Sufjan Steven's The Age - I'm pretty much in a state of Super OMGZ Happy Joy Joy - the speakers have had about an 1hr of play time - so far. I hope it gets better cause this is pretty awesome.

[Poultrygeist]

Looking good my fellow Zu-aphite. Those finger ports love more gap and a little backward tilt.

[atomicAdam]

I moved the speakers back off the carpet onto the tile floor so they have a lot of room to breath.

will work on tilts and stuff later but thanks for the suggestion.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, are those for review or did you acquire your own? Thanks for any feedback. Now you really have me anxious to get mine in.

[RGA]

Cute cat!

[harley .guy07]

Adam, are those for review or did you acquire your own? Thanks for any feedback. Now you really have me anxious to get mine in.

I am really interested in hearing how these speakers sound and would really like a educated view from someone I know personally about the sound that they have. I know you have heard a lot of equipment and have the ability to hear a lot more stuff than I do with where you live and the only shop left in Springfield that I know of only sells B&W, Martin Logan which Martin Logan is not bad but their main components are Mcintosh which are well made but just do not have the sound that I like personally, A lot of people pair them with B&W because they are so bright that it takes super warm sounding stuff to tame them. I read a review on here that says that they are a very fun speaker to listen to and remind people of a good tube guitar amp which to me with a good guitar player playing a good guitar can make the sound magical and the Zu's are American made which has some pride with it as well. I know that crossovers are needed in most dynamic loudspeakers and are not necessarily a bad thing depending on the design but also I do realize that crossovers by design can't help but take a little of the power and sound from a speaker and that is the reason that a lot of newer speakers manufacturers are designing speakers that have drivers that are designed to not need crossovers and like the Zu;s their basically a full range 10" driver with a super tweeter crossed over minimally at around 10k which is an interesting concept to me and makes me want to hear them more. the fact that the crossover point is not in the middle of most of the musical information should be a benefit to the design and they might go well with your CJ gear since they are efficient and even though their web site states that they go well with SS and tube gear you can tell that tube gear was what they really designed them for. It will be interesting to hear feed back from what you think of these speakers.

[Mr Peabody]

Some how in my mind I don't relish the idea of listening to music through a guitar amp. I missed those reviews some how. What got me interested in Zu was the talk of "tonal richness" and the dynamics. Another speaker company I was reading about, forget which one right now, uses drivers from the same company as Zu. That gave me a little more confidence in the quality of them. I will eventually know for sure.

[atomicAdam]

Hi folks -

I will definitely try to convey as much as a can and answer any questions.

I have them in for review. Right off the bad I do like them. But give me some time to spell out why. I mean I like other speakers that sound totally different, so me just liking them obviously isn't saying much.

[harley .guy07]

Some how in my mind I don't relish the idea of listening to music through a guitar amp. I missed those reviews some how. What got me interested in Zu was the talk of "tonal richness" and the dynamics. Another speaker company I was reading about, forget which one right now, uses drivers from the same company as Zu. That gave me a little more confidence in the quality of them. I will eventually know for sure.

I did not really mean to say I wanted to hear music through a guitar amp but I have been around musicians my whole life and if you have ever heard a good guitar being amplified by a good tube amp with a rich tone and quality drivers that do the amp right, then turn around and listen to a guy playing the same guitar through a cheaper modeling amp or Solid state amp with cheap drivers and the difference is really there and that was what I was talking about. That is one thing that tubes definitely have a advantage on is guitar amplification and I think that was the point that this reviewer was speaking about not actually hooking up your vinyl rig to a marshall and jamming.

[Poultrygeist]

The full range drivers in the Zu's, Tekton Lore's and Hawthorne's are all made by Eminence of Kentucky, the world's largest speaker company. Much of their business is guitar speakers.

Eminence, Ky located in the heart of horse and bourbon country, has a population of 3,000

[atomicAdam]

Poultrygeist - great info - thanks.

So I've had the speakers a week now - I'm assuming they still need some burn in. At this point I have them paired with a PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium and I had them with the Electrocmpaniet CP-1 but I switched out for the Song PS-1.

I wanted to soften the high end a bit and in crease some of the warmth in the lower mid range. This is basically what the PS-1 is good for. It wouldn't be totally fair for me to comment on the sound at this point - w/o enough break in - so I'm going to refrain. Give me another week.

[Mr Peabody]

Just curious if the owners manual mentions any break in time. I've read some where it takes about 100 hours.

yeah, thanks Poultrygeist, I knew I saw another reputable company using them, I was on both Lowther and Tekton websites in the recent past.

Wow, I have posted on this thread how many times now, and it finally came to my attention, Adam, you actually have the Def version with two
10"'s. You got my speakers :)

[atomicAdam]

Mr P -

So you are getting the Omen Def's? The $3200.00 ones? Or just the Omens? I am pretty sure they share the same woofer but not too sure about the tweeter. Waiting for Zu's site to carry the specs.

So I've heard that the Omen Def's don't need any break in time - which - umm - IDK - they are speakers - they need some break in. I've heard that should be about 250hrs. So kind of conflicting sources - but I have a theory they will change with some break in.

Let me then assume they need no break in so I can tell you what they sound like out of the box. Just to review the associated equipment. I'm running them with the Sony PS1 - PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium (EL34 tubes) - Zu Mission speaker cable - Granite Audio #470 ICs and Granite Audio #560 power cables.

You'll probably wonder why I have a $20 PS1 source. With the $2400 Electrocompaniet CP-1 the high end was out of balance. Amazingly detailed - like you can hear a pin drop and all the echos in the room - or with the analog source I could hear the record fuzz and noise floor much clearer than on any other speakers I've had in before. Honestly the high end is very detailed and open and here, in the room. It reminded me of either the Axiom M3v3 or Magnepan 3.7s I've heard recently. (Yes I realize that one is a $350 box speaker and the other a $5000 planar - but it just had that similar type of open and slightly breathy high end)

But, at volume this sound can become fatiguing and metallic. Guitars strings and female vocals (thinking of Feist The Reminder) lost their naturalness and started to become metallic sounding. And this is with the PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium - that on all other speakers of mine had rolled off the highs a bit - was not fatiguing at all at loud volumes, with the PMC TB2i and other speakers (Something I love about it) - The PrimaLuna also thickened and slowed up the low end a bit on all other speakers I've used it to power.

Conversely - taking this detail on the good side - on that same Feist album - I could hear her and her microphone much more clearly and separated from the rest of the band. Back ground noise samples, little echos, and the slight wet smacking of lips - were all very clear. One some classical records it was much easier to hear the echoes of the hall it was recorded in and with saw wave type of noise sounds, it really sounded like a saw this time. It is all very impressive and captivating. But it still seems slightly out of balance.

So I put in the PS1 to smooth out the highs and round out the midrange. Which it has done. But at loud volumes the sound is still fatiguing. I am really hoping that with break in this will go away - since it has generally done that on all other speakers I've had in for review - or if I pair it with another amplifier - say the 300B from Melody or the Mystere pentode design. Heck I'm gonna bust out the old Van Alstine OmegaStar250EX soon to see how that thick bastard sounds.

Otherwise, the mid range and low end are very clear, detailed, and sound good. As a whole the mids and lows sound a bit more relaxed - more at the distances of the speakers, while the highs tend to come out a toward me a bit more.

I am a little sad there is only 1 set of speaker cable terminals. You can't bi-wire or bi-amp these.

Staging is good - the speakers do blend in very well - but I'm still playing with set up. I have them about 6ft apart and 8ft away from me. They have just a slight toe in at the moment.

I think I am going to try in the next couple weeks. A Melody 300B amplifier - 8W per channel. The AVA 100W OmegaStar - placement - and the PSAudio PerfectWave AC5 which boost mid range with the Electrocompaniet CP-1 CDP.

A final note on the detail of the high end. Though it is very detailed one must remember this is a $3200 floorstander. It obviously isn't a $70,000 Marten Coltrane 2.

So - please remember - this is all with about a weeks worth of air time. Final opinion is subject to change.

Oh yeah - and the low end goes low! Massive Attack sounds f'ing amazing!

Oh yeah again... the Zu Mission speaker cables are totally new as well - so they might need some break in time as well.... probably do.

[atomicAdam]

Cute cat!

Thanks, and he is totally crazy.

[atomicAdam]

I'm psyched! I'm going to be able to demo a Mystere ia11 with these Zu Omen Defs!

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/manufacturer/man-e-n/mystere/ia11.html

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/a/ia11nocage.jpg

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, I did order the Def, I needed the 6 ohms for my amps. Have you tried any other cables with them? I'm hoping the break in will smooth out the response as well. According to Zu they are supposed to have a balanced sound but I suppose that's subjective. I'm not familiar with Mystere but the ie11 looks good and I like the auto bias feature.

[No Cacophony Needed]

Mr P -
So I've heard that the Omen Def's don't need any break in time - which - umm - IDK - they are speakers - they need some break in. I've heard that should be about 250hrs. So kind of conflicting sources - but I have a theory they will change with some break in.
Mine took about 350 hours, when using the Isotek System enhancer cd. I wasn't sure about these speakers initially, but changed my mind after sufficient / somewhat lengthy break-in [NOTE: buyers can pay Zu by the week to break in the speakers.]. I found a disappearance of congestion occurs late in the break-in period, bass tightens up / deepens (inititially thought a sub was needed but moved off that opinion), etc.

I also second the comments about dialing in tilt, toe-in, placement - I found the Omen Defs respond greatly to small changes, so I took my time to dial them in. YMMV. FYI - nice video!

[Mr Peabody]

Good drivers usually do tend to require break in. It literally took months for my Dyn's to break in, I probably drove the dealer crazy calling and asking, "are you sure these are alright, going to break in?". I heard them before buying but they sure didn't sound like that out of the box and took forever.

Thanks for the input, No Cacophony, what do you drive your Zu with? Do you find the sound quality on par with other speakers in the Zu price? Getting up around $3k there is some good competition.

Any of you heard Harbeth and can compare to Zu? I'm sure the Zu would be more lively.

[No Cacophony Needed]

Thanks for the input, No Cacophony, what do you drive your Zu with? Do you find the sound quality on par with other speakers in the Zu price? Getting up around $3k there is some good competition.
I use Odyssey Audio Extreme Mono amps.

Also, my pair of Omen Defs were purchased during the Black Friday Sale @ $1,800/pr; the Omen Defs now retail for $3,100/pr according to the Zu site. At the price I paid, I haven't heard anything that delivers what the Omen Defs deliver. At the $3,100, the Gallo 3.1s easily came to mind / would have been worthy of consideration except Gallo stopped making them.

[Poultrygeist]

Those doped and treated 10 inch cones are stiff out of the box and need lots of play time to settle down and loosen up. Mine are still improving after 500+ hours. I loved the fact there's no full range shout as you often find with Lowthers.

[Feanor]

Those doped and treated 10 inch cones are stiff out of the box and need lots of play time to settle down and loosen up. Mine are still improving after 500+ hours. I loved the fact there's no full range shout as you often find with Lowthers.
What's "full range shout"? :confused:

[Poultrygeist]

Many full range speakers use whizzer cones to get extended highs. The downside is that the whizzer edges can vibrate at high volume and produce a "shouty" sound. A common speaker mod is to cut off the whizzer and dust cap and replace them with a phase plug which can smooth out the sound. Some companies even sell custom hard carved phase plugs in the wood of one's choice.

While the Zu 10 inch uses a whizzer it also employs a unique cast aluminum phase plug which works well to cancel any shout.

[atomicAdam]

Many full range speakers use whizzer cones to get extended highs. The downside is that the whizzer edges can vibrate at high volume and produce a "shouty" sound. A common speaker mod is to cut off the whizzer and dust cap and replace them with a phase plug which can smooth out the sound. Some companies even sell custom hard carved phase plugs in the wood of one's choice.

While the Zu 10 inch uses a whizzer it also employs a unique cast aluminum phase plug which works well to cancel any shout.

Funny enough - I just talked to someone about this yesterday - they said typically what you want is little or no toe in with a speaker that has whizzer cones. Which is how I have them, but with the Zu they suggested pointing the speakers straight at the seating position.

I'm going to give that a try.

[Feanor]

Many full range speakers use whizzer cones to get extended highs. The downside is that the whizzer edges can vibrate at high volume and produce a "shouty" sound. A common speaker mod is to cut off the whizzer and dust cap and replace them with a phase plug which can smooth out the sound. Some companies even sell custom hard carved phase plugs in the wood of one's choice.

While the Zu 10 inch uses a whizzer it also employs a unique cast aluminum phase plug which works well to cancel any shout.
Hummm... Thanks for the info, Poultry. I'm afraid issues of this sort underlie my prejudices against full-range dynamic speakers.

Doesn't the Omen have a tweeter of sorts, though?

[atomicAdam]

Hummm... Thanks for the info, Poultry. I'm afraid issues of this sort underlie my prejudices against full-range dynamic speakers.

Doesn't the Omen have a tweeter of sorts, though?

Yes it does - it is very detailed - it seems a little pumped up in volume though - you can hear the turntable noise floor very easily and record hiss on CDs and stuff (recording room hiss). Something i've been trying to roll off with different digital sources.

[Mr Peabody]

I read some where while researching Zu, and I think it was on their old website, that they recommended the speakers firing forward. Rooms vary so wildly I'm sure it deserves some experimentation either way.

I noticed when using Klipsch that I heard more background hiss on CD's, I guess a down side of having a revealing mid or high end. Then the question becomes is the hiss being exaggerated by certain speakers or being muffled by others, and if muffled, what else is muffled.

[atomicAdam]

I've got the Mystere pentode ia11 integrated tube amplifier powering the speakers at the moment. I've plugged back in the Electrocompaniet CDP and everything is sounding very nice. At least for my taste at the moment - I've been hunting for a nice smooth sound.

[atomicAdam]

So I've got M82's Dead Cities album playing via the set up right now and it sounds fantastic! I wish I could crank it up more but I will do that later.

Right now I've got the speakers pointed straight at me - which makes the stage feel a little condensed. I'm going to toe the speakers back out and see how that sounds.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm trying to be patient waiting for mine but it's difficult. Do you think the speakers broke in more or just finally the right components?

[atomicAdam]

I'm trying to be patient waiting for mine but it's difficult. Do you think the speakers broke in more or just finally the right components?


Hey Mr P. Components - no way it is time, yet.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, how goes it with the Zu? Mine should be here tomorrow but I probably won't get to do much with them until the weekend.

[pawblo]

Same here, guess we made the same shipment!

[atomicAdam]

They are breaking in. I played some Ministry really loudly yesterday on them - hope it helped.

What amps do you guys plan to run. I'm running them off a Mystere ia11 pentode tube amp. I'm going to try a Melody 300B as well and I think a Glow pentode amplifier also.

-adam

[Mr Peabody]

I believe Zu used Melody at CES didn't they? I just plan to use mine in my system with the CJ gear. In fact, I received mine tonight. I'm impressed with the build. I like what I've heard right out of the box, I hear the things you mentioned but the micro and macro dynamics come through out of the box. If it only gets better from here I'm enthused. The bass is good as well having good detail, I haven't played anything with extreme lows yet. Have you noticed much change from out of the box until now?

Did you get yours brand new? I had to laugh at a speaker wrapped in cellophane. I used the carpet spikes to get the recommended height underneath. The speaker covers are interesting but this has got to be the most kid proof speaker I've seen. Well, at least with the covers on. Much better than a traditional grill.

[Poultrygeist]

"micro and macro dynamics" out of the box - and it will only get better!

Welcome to the wonder of full range speakers.

[harley .guy07]

I am really anxious to hear how the Zu's do against your 2.5 contours which have proved themselves time and time again. So I will love to read what you have to say about these Zu's after breaking them in. I can tell by their construction that they are quite capable of dynamics and are way more efficient than your Dynaudio's but the main question is do they have the control and inner detail while retaining the smoothness and refinement that Dynaudio is known for and also the fatigue factor.If I lived just a little bit closer and did not have classes all the time I would not mind hearing them for myself in order to make my own judgment but I also trust your judgment Mr Peabody since it seems out likes are similar in what we like to hear.

[frenchmon]

Harley....im going to try and get over this weekend to take a listen if MrP is not busy....would love to have you come as well if you could...but I understand you cant make it....but when you do get a chance to get away and come down to MrP's...let me know as well.

[atomicAdam]

The barking has toned down a bit. But I am using a pentode amplifier.

I've been moving them around - still not found the perfect placement for my room and seating position. But I've heard they need now, from a couple sources, 250-500 hrs of break in - so I've got a little bit of time.

I am liking them more and more that I listen to them.

[woofersus]

I believe Zu used Melody at CES didn't they? I just plan to use mine in my system with the CJ gear. In fact, I received mine tonight. I'm impressed with the build. I like what I've heard right out of the box, I hear the things you mentioned but the micro and macro dynamics come through out of the box. If it only gets better from here I'm enthused. The bass is good as well having good detail, I haven't played anything with extreme lows yet. Have you noticed much change from out of the box until now?

Did you get yours brand new? I had to laugh at a speaker wrapped in cellophane. I used the carpet spikes to get the recommended height underneath. The speaker covers are interesting but this has got to be the most kid proof speaker I've seen. Well, at least with the covers on. Much better than a traditional grill.

They did use an older Melody P1688 signature preamp, although the power amplifiers weren't Melody. (they were 1.5w SET somethingorothers) That preamp does have a bit of a smooth sound, although I haven't heard the older one. We atctually talked to them about maybe supplying them with the newest iteration next time. (now called the Pure Black 101)

[Poultrygeist]

Flea power SET/SEP's are a great match for the Zu's. No doubt they'll like the 300B's.

[harley .guy07]

Harley....im going to try and get over this weekend to take a listen if MrP is not busy....would love to have you come as well if you could...but I understand you cant make it....but when you do get a chance to get away and come down to MrP's...let me know as well.

I will let you know the next time I will be available to make a visit. I live a little bit closer now that I live in Springfield so it would be no big deal to make a visit but i have to plan this with college in mind. Being a non traditional student I am getting my ass kicked relearning all the things I have not used in all these years so studies are very important to me now but I think some weekend when everything is taken care of and the weather will work for me for god sake! i can probably make another visit. I bought a new preamp which is on the way but delayed due to weather but I hope to have it up and running next week and maybe I can bring it along to do some comparisons and some listening with different stuff. The preamp I bought is a Nuforce P8 which is said to have a lot of tube quality to it without the solid state harshness but still having the tight bass and tight control that SS is known for. being a Rotel owner you know what I am talking about. I will let both of you know when it is possible to make another trip up there.

[Mr Peabody]

The Zu now have about 30 hours on them. When I'm not listening I let them play using a mono Jazz station on the HD tuner. Tonight I did a bit more listening they seem some what more balanced but the low end bass isn't quite there I hope that's something that comes with break in. The bass detail that's already there is impressive but it's missing the fullness it should have. From talk I was a bit worried the four drivers might be overwhelming but far from it at this point. Also, in a thread on Zu, I think here, it was mentioned by some one they thought Zu might exaggerate their sensitivity rating, at this point I don't think so, they are at least as sensitive as my Klipsch Heresy III. But, whose to say Klipsch don't exaggerate :)

Keep in mind Frenchmon they are practically out of the box, we shall listen though.

Harley, it would be a difficult comparison to the t2.5's, a different presentation from each. The Dyn's being smoother and more refined at this point but the Zu being more lively, like maybe a good sounding pro speaker. The t2.5 has a big sound stage but the OD is even larger. Larger for me isn't always better, it can ruin a mental image as much as one being too small but actually I find very few recordings that image a believable placement unless some Jazz. Things like a piano or drum kit that stretch across the entire room is hard to swallow :)

The Omen Def held together very well with higher volume. I also notice it reveals more layers of the music if that makes any sense. It's like you hear deeper into a track than you were able to before.

[atomicAdam]

mr p - how close do u have them to the rear wall, what is ur room size, toe in.

i have mine with a pentode amp, beefy and warm lows, i think massive attack sounds perfect.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, were they like that at first or did it take some break in? I would say mine are a couple feet from back and same for side, they do have a cabinet back and to the side, and my TV between them but back some. They are about where my Dyn's were and they didn't have issues with bass. I have my Zu just firing forward for now. I find most of the time that's my preference. I am using the carpet spikes and the space under the Zu are a good inch. I suspect it could be just a break in issue. Maybe I need to play more bass heavy material to work that region.

[frenchmon]

MrP...im sure those babies aren't broken in as of yet. Every new speaker I have purchased new out of the box had to play for hours before the tweeters settled down and the bass went low...so im sure your OD just need time. But keep in mind....you are coming from a Dynaudio bottom end presentation...and not many speakers don't do it like that...

[atomicAdam]

I have mine almost right against the back wall - at the moment. I'll probably change this - pull the out a bit - I think that will help w/ image depth.

I have no complains about frequency range - either up or down the scale. I did play Metallica's Ride the Lighting the other day - Off CD - via the Electrocompaniet and Mystere amp - not as driving a bass beat as I would have liked - but with stuff like Massive Attack, or Aphex Twin - the OD hold their own. Maybe they are missing something in the mid to upper bass area.

[harley .guy07]

Harley, it would be a difficult comparison to the t2.5's, a different presentation from each. The Dyn's being smoother and more refined at this point but the Zu being more lively, like maybe a good sounding pro speaker

Mr Peabody I could definitely see them having this kind of presentation to them at least before they get broken in. Their drivers are made by Eminence which is one of the bigger prosound drivers manufacturers in America so they might have a more pro sound signature to them in comparison to a Usher or Dynaudio speaker would. I am a bit surprised that the bass is not as strong as expected with the overall size of the speakers and using 2 10" bass drivers. You would figure that the bass would be a strong point with these speakers but on the flip side I have heard speakers with 15" drivers that could not match the bass of our Dyaudio speakers in detail or amount. I hope they start opening up and get better for you though and give you something different than the Dynaudio's when your tastes call for it. I guess only time will tell and letting them brake in for a little longer hoping that things will improve in the area that you see them being weak in. I would not think with a speaker of that type that putting them against the back walls would improve things but it might, it also might make them boomy and not as detailed and give too much upper bass information like a lot of speakers do when too close to the back wall. Let us know after you spend some more time with them what you think because I have heard a lot of people are interested in these speakers and it is kind of cool to see an all American built speaker hitting the streets again that is priced within affordability.

[harley .guy07]

Harley, it would be a difficult comparison to the t2.5's, a different presentation from each. The Dyn's being smoother and more refined at this point but the Zu being more lively, like maybe a good sounding pro speaker

Mr Peabody I could definitely see them having this kind of presentation to them at least before they get broken in. Their drivers are made by Eminence which is one of the bigger prosound drivers manufacturers in America so they might have a more pro sound signature to them in comparison to a Usher or Dynaudio speaker would. I am a bit surprised that the bass is not as strong as expected with the overall size of the speakers and using 2 10" bass drivers. You would figure that the bass would be a strong point with these speakers but on the flip side I have heard speakers with 15" drivers that could not match the bass of our Dyaudio speakers in detail or amount. I hope they start opening up and get better for you though and give you something different than the Dynaudio's when your tastes call for it. I guess only time will tell and letting them brake in for a little longer hoping that things will improve in the area that you see them being weak in. I would not think with a speaker of that type that putting them against the back walls would improve things but it might, it also might make them boomy and not as detailed and give too much upper bass information like a lot of speakers do when too close to the back wall. Let us know after you spend some more time with them what you think because I have heard a lot of people are interested in these speakers and it is kind of cool to see an all American built speaker hitting the streets again that is priced within affordability.

[atomicAdam]

I moved the OD to about 72" apart - about 10" from rear wall and face directly forward. I'm sitting about 72" back from the center of the speakers. Things are starting to definitely come together.

[pawblo]

My personal tactic, is to just leave the new Omen Def’s, in their current location and setup, until I get at least 400 hours of play time on them, then I will start tweaking and adjusting.

They have about 100 hours of continued play since they arrived.

Out of the box they seemed flat, stiff, and almost no bass to speak of.

In 100 hours, Bass presence has become easily noticeable and much improved. The tweeters were very piercing, especially at volume, but continue to soften up as the hours of play add up.

Everything I have read, including from Zu’s legacy web site, stated these need significant break in time, and that bodes true. I was prepared for it. I appreciate the fact that I genuinely hear the sound developing/improving during the break in., more so than with speakers that I have owned in the past.

[Mr Peabody]

Even with short break in I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Zu speakers. I truly believe the bass is merely break in. I really get caught up in the sound of my OD. I probably shouldn't have compared the OD to pro speakers it may give people the wrong idea. The OD have no problem with micro and macro dynamics. It's just that they groove with the music. Makes them a good match with the CJ gear. I was jamming Couldn't Stand The Weather last night and I believe it was one of the best times I've heard it sound. I don't know if I mentioned this already but the Zu are more neutral than I expected easily letting me know which recordings are done well or not.

[atomicAdam]

massive change in status -

I toed them in, considerably - to the point of them aiming at my head.

The tweeters are about 80" apart and I am roughly that back from the tweeter line.

I was listening to a Sufjan Steve's album that has some interesting channel separation and the center image was just not happening. Much better after the toe in.

[Mr Peabody]

I might try some toe in at some point. Mine are sounding better each day, the bass is coming around, they throw a large sound stage. I played an Ozric Tentacles disc and not only did the bass pound the swirling keyboards seemed to be all around, not just firing at me. The Zu sound may not be for every one as any speaker but if you like them I don't think anything in their price can compete. I'm somewhere around 100 hours in burn in, so still some settling in to do.

[pawblo]

175+ hours of "burn-in" and going.

The thing I have appreciated / noticed most so far? The super tweeters. Now that they have settled down, I really notice nuances and sounds in music that I definitely did not notice before…

For instance, listening to some old Tom Petty songs…had no idea, they had a tambourine playing in some sections…so far, I am just surprised it’s the super tweeter that continue to outshine my older setups…by large margins…especially since some of my older stuff was considered to be “bright” to begin with.

Bass continues to develop and to echo Mr P's observation, if production quality of the music was poor or excellent, it becomes very apparent when playing it on the Zu OD’s.

Female vocals are outstanding. All guitars, no matter if they are electric or acoustic, sound fantastic. I would argue to say that the acoustic guitar is especially well reproduced. Both my son’s play, and even they mentioned that they thought it sounded “real”…

Most string oriented instruments play very well on these, at this point.

The speakers continue to evolve with break in, and this is by no means a final say as to there settled personality.

One last note…efficiency…can’t say how accurate Zu’s numbers are, but they play pretty loud at volume levels that my older stuff would whisper at.

I’ve got to get a tube amp on these, once the burn in is completed…

[pawblo]

Hey atomicAdam,

Curious, how many hours do you have logged on to the OD's, that you are reviewing?

[frenchmon]

175+ hours of "burn-in" and going.

The thing I have appreciated / noticed most so far? The super tweeters. Now that they have settled down, I really notice nuances and sounds in music that I definitely did not notice before…

For instance, listening to some old Tom Petty songs…had no idea, they had a tambourine playing in some sections…so far, I am just surprised it’s the super tweeter that continue to outshine my older setups…by large margins…especially since some of my older stuff was considered to be “bright” to begin with.

Bass continues to develop and to echo Mr P's observation, if production quality of the music was poor or excellent, it becomes very apparent when playing it on the Zu OD’s.

Female vocals are outstanding. All guitars, no matter if they are electric or acoustic, sound fantastic. I would argue to say that the acoustic guitar is especially well reproduced. Both my son’s play, and even they mentioned that they thought it sounded “real”…

Most string oriented instruments play very well on these, at this point.

The speakers continue to evolve with break in, and this is by no means a final say as to there settled personality.

One last note…efficiency…can’t say how accurate Zu’s numbers are, but they play pretty loud at volume levels that my older stuff would whisper at.

I’ve got to get a tube amp on these, once the burn in is completed…

I've been reading about the great reports you guys have been giving about Zu....but what I am most interested in...aer the speakers sterile? I guess I shall wait until I get over to Mr P's for the answer but have not heard anything of the sorts meantioned.

[Poultrygeist]

The Omens are light years from sterile. If you like big honk'n sound the Zu's have it in spades. Down to earth and fun as all get out but refined enough to wear a tux should the occasion arise.

[Mr Peabody]

Poultrygiest, I don't think people will find the word "honk'n" flattering :) but I don't think you used that term to describe the sound quality, right? The sound and presentation is large though. And, you wasn't exaggerating about them being able to sound like a concert.

They are definitely not sterile, but they aren't colored either. The dynamics are tremendous and at high volume they hold the sound together like not much I've heard and certainly not in the OD's price.

[atomicAdam]

checking in to the thread from a dennys along hwy 5 and who the **** knows where.

i like to describe the zu's as having an american brashness.

[frenchmon]

They are definitely not sterile, but they aren't colored either.

Ok Mr P....thats a contradiction in terms....they have to be one or the other. I hate sterile by the way....

[Poultrygeist]

Growing up in the south of my youth the only decent sound came from the honky-tonk Wurlitzers, Seeburgs and Rock-olas. For a few quarters those jukes would have us Myrtle Beach teens shagging all night. ( inspite of it's British slang meaning, the shag is South Carolina's official state dance ).

What do the old juke boxes have in common with my Zu's? A lot as they both employ large highly efficient full range drivers powered by low powered tube amps and produce gobs of room filling sound.

A big honk'n sound is a good thing for me. It's the sound of a great honky-tonk. It's what I heard when my aunt rented a Seeburg for my 16th birthday party. It's what we did the dirty bird to, the fly, and the twist. It's the sound that made you want to dance and still does.

[frenchmon]

The Omens are light years from sterile. If you like big honk'n sound the Zu's have it in spades. Down to earth and fun as all get out but refined enough to wear a tux should the occasion arise.

I assume they are full of passion and romance then? Emotional?

Boy...can't wait to get to Peabody's...
frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Sterile to me is a negative. Gear should offer tonal quality as instruments have a tonality. To me "colored" goes beyond tonal quality by over stating aspects of the presentation. Sterile and colored are like opposite ends of the spectrum. Of course, where something falls in that spectrum is totally subjective to the listener.

[frenchmon]

Sterile to me is a negative. Gear should offer tonal quality as instruments have a tonality. To me "colored" goes beyond tonal quality by over stating aspects of the presentation. Sterile and colored are like opposite ends of the spectrum. Of course, where something falls in that spectrum is totally subjective to the listener.

MrP...this is what sterile means in medical terms.

dictionary.com : Sterile : free from living germs or microorganisms; aseptic: sterile surgical instruments.

In audio sterile is free from any color whatsoever...the speakers will be cold...just producing sound.

Now most speakers have some degree of color....color can be extreme or it can be very light, but most have some color that adds to the overall sound the manufacturer is trying to achieve......your Dyns have color, while your Klipsh Forte's had color....I felt those big Klipsh we heard at your buddys house had no color whatsoever and he even said he wanted no color when he built that system. Some people don't want color and your buddy said he wanted it to sound as if he was at a live concert which it did....we all have our opinion of if we want color or not and if so...how much color we like. I hate a cold speaker...but I dont want a very warm speaker either....I like a more lively speaker and from hanging out with you...you want a more lively speaker as well.

I like emotion and romance from a speaker....I like the tones to get down in my soul....helps me to have an experience with the music....without it the music to me is not really enjoyable.....when alone I like to get lost in my music.

Color adds to and helps the emotional character of the speaker....helps to add to the overall enjoyment of the music. Every speaker we heard at St.Louis Stereo had color...some more than others but they all had it....the Totems had less color while I felt the Harbeths had the most color. And you seem to like them the most. Thats one of the first things I listen for when listening to speakers....to see if they are sterile or not.

[Poultrygeist]

I looked up sterile in the dictionary and it had a picture of my Classe amp.

[frenchmon]

I looked up sterile in the dictionary and it had a picture of my Classe amp.

Yeah...I've heard the later models of Classe' where dry, while the earlier Classe' was pretty good stuff.

[Poultrygeist]

It was an earlier one ( CAP-101 ).

[harley .guy07]

Mr. P what do you think of the OD compared to your Dynaudio's. That will give me more of a sense of their sound compared to all this sterile not sterile, Classe, colored stuff. Sometimes I as well get to talking audio and start saying things like that and with every ones perception being different I really still don't have a clue of their presentation, but compared to the t 2.5 which I already like then I can probably get more of a sense.

[frenchmon]

I too would like to know how the Dyns and Zu stack up against each other...

[atomicAdam]

From having heard three or four different dynaudio speakers in controlled rooms and at CES - they sound very different than the Zu speakers I've heard at CES and the OD in my house.

The Dynaudio's I'heard - ranging from $2k - $10k have more of studio sound quality to them. They remind me more of PMC - while the Zu's - just off hand - remind me more of JBL. With the dynaudio's I've heard the highs are very detailed and pop out of the speakers. In fact I guess all the sound pops out - spacial speaking in terms of depth - while the Zu - while having a good lleft/right stage - often feel like the sound is still over there - with the speakers.

The PMC and Dynaudio are not fatiguing to me - while the Zu are still breaking in - can be - for me.

With the Zu I hear a lot more of the vinyl noise floor - while with Dynaudio and PMC speakers - and other European brands - all that seems to be rolled off. Giving you more enjoyment from less perfect sources.

[frenchmon]

From having heard three or four different dynaudio speakers in controlled rooms and at CES - they sound very different than the Zu speakers I've heard at CES and the OD in my house.

The Dynaudio's I'heard - ranging from $2k - $10k have more of studio sound quality to them. They remind me more of PMC - while the Zu's - just off hand - remind me more of JBL. With the dynaudio's I've heard the highs are very detailed and pop out of the speakers. In fact I guess all the sound pops out - spacial speaking in terms of depth - while the Zu - while having a good lleft/right stage - often feel like the sound is still over there - with the speakers.

The PMC and Dynaudio are not fatiguing to me - while the Zu are still breaking in - can be - for me.

With the Zu I hear a lot more of the vinyl noise floor - while with Dynaudio and PMC speakers - and other European brands - all that seems to be rolled off. Giving you more enjoyment from less perfect sources.


Thanks AA for the comparison...Im hoping MrP who has both Dynaudio and Zu in his music room right now can chime in here for those who are interested in the difference in presentation. I know Dyns are quality speakers and I assume Zu is though I have never seen or heard them in person....Just wondering how different they are.

[Mr Peabody]

Maybe electronics or room but I like the OD's and have a bit different impression. I don't think they sound anything like JBL, at least models I've heard. The OD's have much better bass detail and midrange clarity.

The OD's have more high end energy and extension over the t2.5's and probablly most Dyn's. The Dyn's at this point have more low end impact but low detail is about a toss up. The OD's are better than my t2.5 at micro & macro dynamics. It's hard to say in overall detail which gets the points because the OD has so much more mid to high energy. I was worried at first the OD's may be too bright but after a bit of break in I don't find them overly bright or fatiguing. The OD's give more of a live presence, or make you feel like you are at the show. With the more sensitivity the OD's can really crank while remaining very clear and together. The Dyn's are very good at disappearing and throwing a nice sound stage. The OD's soundstage appears larger and having more air or space between instruments. Now that Adam mentions it the OD's may not disappear as well but I'm not drawn to the speakers at all directionally and the OD sound stage has great depth.

As a footnote I have my OD's firing forward, I'd estimate 8' apart and I probably sit 10' to 11' back. I have my spikes in and about one inch of space between speaker and floor.

Frenchie, I was really wanting to investigate the Harbeth's a bit more, even though there were a couple things we heard with them concerning. I did like the sound and they were next on the list if the Zu didn't work out. The Zu ended up not sounding like I expected from what people say. I thought they would be sort of lush and warm. They ended up being about exactly the sound I was looking for. Cymbals are prominent and have nice decay. When you are at a live show cymbals are always prominent. At this point the bass is good, recording dependent, but it doesn't steal the show. Very good midrange with my gear. The OD's have sort of a "reality" factor I haven't heard in many other speakers, I sometimes call it "presence". They are really hard to compare to other speakers. I am interested in getting your impression.

[frenchmon]

Thanks for the very good write up MrP....If you want, we can take another trip over to St. Louis Stereo if you'd like before your time to send the Zu back? It sounds like the Zu has all the bases covered over the Dyns....cant wait to take a listen.

[Mr Peabody]

The Harbeth are more money and I know they can't rock like the Zu.

[LeRoy]

Mr. P, thanks for your Zu impressions thus far. I am glad you are enjoying the new audio toys.

[Mr Peabody]

My center should be here Thursday. I may have to get creative finding a set up for that thing, it's pretty big comparatively. I will probably go with a vertical on the floor if it's not too tall that way. Adam, at Zu, seemed to think that placement would work fine. I was not sure since the two tweeters.

[cackalacky]

The Omens are light years from sterile. If you like big honk'n sound the Zu's have it in spades. Down to earth and fun as all get out but refined enough to wear a tux should the occasion arise.

Big honk'n vs. sterile. Cerwin Vega vs. Definitive Technology? You guys that have been around the block with this stuff - have you heard of the Sonic Circle as a means of evaluating component characteristics.? Helpful? Where do these Zu ODs fit? Maggies?

http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/sonicflares-sonic-circle.php

[frenchmon]

Big honk'n vs. sterile. Cerwin Vega vs. Definitive Technology? You guys that have been around the block with this stuff - have you heard of the Sonic Circle as a means of evaluating component characteristics.? Helpful? Where do these Zu ODs fit? Maggies?

http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/sonicflares-sonic-circle.php

Interesting...they have my speakers in the intense section...

[Poultrygeist]

Zu Omens, a speaker for all seasons is how I see them. Perhaps not as detailed as the 4.5 inch Fostex full range driver ( few if any are ) but detailed enough to hear every drawn breath of a barbershop quartet or the background conversation in "Jazz at the Pawnshop". Their tremendous ( big honkin ) sound stage and excellent bass ( rare for the breed ) is what sets them apart from other wide banders. My little Fostex 4.5's, as much as I adore them, sound thin in comparison.

The Omens are full range speakers with a "super" tweeter added for the extreme top end so most of what you hear comes from the 10 inch drivers. Zu was smart to add the super tweeter to the cabinet unlike other full rangers who go it alone or add an optional super tweeter to place on top of the cabinet. No doubt folks see the Omens as two ways but they aren't as they lack that sound sucking power robbing crossover.

Where full range speakers kill conventional speakers is in the midrange and the Omens don't disappoint here. Comparing them to conventional speakers is difficult as the full range sound seems to polarize many. Most of those who are critical of full range speakers are those who have not spent much time listening to them. How could they? Very few stores carry them and fewer manufactures make them as it's hard to sell the public on the concept that one single driver can sound better than multipe drivers of different sizes. The simplicity of producing FR speakers means there's less profit to be made by the large companies and also explains the popularity of this design with DIY'ers. If you crack open an Omen you'd be shocked to see there's really not much there. But with single driver full ranger speakers less can be more.

[Mr Peabody]

Interesting article, on some things I think he is off like his placement of Krell and Vandersteen. Although, Krell is refined I think it is better placed in the Precise category, but on others he is right on, like the Harbeth. I'd have to read it again and do some listening to make up my mind if he is right on Zu.

[atomicAdam]

Interesting article, on some things I think he is off like his placement of Krell and Vandersteen. Although, Krell is refined I think it is better placed in the Precise category, but on others he is right on, like the Harbeth. I'd have to read it again and do some listening to make up my mind if he is right on Zu.


I also wonder if this guy has heard some of the top of the line AudioNote UK stuff.

[cackalacky]

Interesting article, on some things I think he is off like his placement of Krell and Vandersteen. Although, Krell is refined I think it is better placed in the Precise category, but on others he is right on, like the Harbeth. I'd have to read it again and do some listening to make up my mind if he is right on Zu.

If nothing else, it gives newbs like myself a vocabulary and frame of reference for identifying and describing sound. We all learn pretty quickly that beauty is in the ear of the listener, and that sonic tastes are as diverse as snowflakes. I remember how surprised I was at being unimpressed with a high end $12,000 Macintosh/B&W system that my hi-fi savvy buddy thought was nirvana. Now I know that it wasn't because he was right and I was wrong.

[atomicAdam]

you folks still enjoying your Omen Defs?

Can you all do me a favor - let me know what you matching equipment is (Specifically amps and speaker cables. ) and a quick sentence or two about the upper mid range and highs? Rolled off, in your face, balanced, ??

Thanks,
-adam

[frenchmon]

you folks still enjoying your Omen Defs?

Can you all do me a favor - let me know what you matching equipment is (Specifically amps and speaker cables. ) and a quick sentence or two about the upper mid range and highs? Rolled off, in your face, balanced, ??

Thanks,
-adam

Adam...while I don't own the OD, I did have a chance to listen to them at MrP's. They are a much different speaker than the Dynaudio's.

There was no roll off at all, but I did think the sound stage was recessed....not in your face. They gave a presentation as if you where sitting back from the sound stage. On certain songs with femle vocals, the midrange seemed very rich which I think was a strong point...maybe the recessed sound stage had something to do with that.

The OD are not sterile...thats for sure.

[atomicAdam]

Adam...while I don't own the OD, I did have a chance to listen to them at MrP's. They are a much different speaker than the Dynaudio's.

There was no roll off at all, but I did think the sound stage was recessed....not in your face. They gave a presentation as if you where sitting back from the sound stage. On certain songs with femle vocals, the midrange seemed very rich which I think was a strong point...maybe the recessed sound stage had something to do with that.

The OD are not sterile...thats for sure.

I agree with you assessment of the highs and staging. I'll have to listen to female vocals to see if I hear that thickness.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm running for 2-channel the T+A CDP to Conrad Johnson CT-6 preamp to two Conrad Johnson mono MV60 power amps to Omen Def's.

I lost track of hours but I bet I'm still under 200. I suspect the bass still isn't broke in although it's not bad now.

The highs are definitely extended and vivid, I don't find them too bright or out of balance though. Cymbals exhibit proper hang and decay time. The midrange is very good, vocals sound natural and not a hint of strain, drums have snap. Overall the presentation has ample air or space and the depth perception is excellent. I get a real feel for front to back placement in the sound stage. I am happy with mine, they bring a nice balance between refinement and liveliness.

[Mr Peabody]

I forgot, in the 2-channel chain I am using all Siltech MXT Pro New Yorker, interconnects and speaker cables.

The sound stage giving you a feel of sitting a few rows back from performance opposed to front row is a Conrad Johnson trait. Although it didn't seem to stop the Klipsch from being forward.

[atomicAdam]

The sound stage giving you a feel of sitting a few rows back from performance opposed to front row is a Conrad Johnson trait. Although it didn't seem to stop the Klipsch from being forward.

I think this is also a Zu thing. At least w/ the Omen Defs. I've gotten that impression on now 3 different amplifiers I've had hooked up the them.

PrimaLuna ProLogue Premuim
Mystere ia11
Glow Amp One

With all I feel I'm a few rows back from the action. Very different from PMC TB2i with the Melody MK88 and PrimaLuna ProLogue Premuim. With those the stage enveloped me, when it was there, in the recording.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, how many hours do you have on the OD now? I'm probably over 200 by now. I let mine run another 50 this week and they improved. The bass has arrived, still haven't reached the depth of my Dyn's but the OD hit hard. Seems this last 50 hours helped quite a bit not only in bass but the mids are smoother and it seems like the OD are more open which is hard to believe because they were doing a big sound stage to begin with. The OD are very honest I can really tell differences in recordings now, more so than ever before on other speakers. I think the OD are amazing, especially at their price.

[atomicAdam]

Adam, how many hours do you have on the OD now? I'm probably over 200 by now. I let mine run another 50 this week and they improved. The bass has arrived, still haven't reached the depth of my Dyn's but the OD hit hard. Seems this last 50 hours helped quite a bit not only in bass but the mids are smoother and it seems like the OD are more open which is hard to believe because they were doing a big sound stage to begin with. The OD are very honest I can really tell differences in recordings now, more so than ever before on other speakers. I think the OD are amazing, especially at their price.

I think I need some more time on mine - I'm going to boot up the solid state amp and the pink noise generator on the laptop.

[atomicAdam]

I picked up the Melody AN211 amplifier yesterday - I just got it set up and driving the Zu's.

OMFG! I think I have arrived. This pairing is what I've been looking for. Finally, 5 amplifier later, the Zu are going to provide me with a lot of long term listening in complete and total pleasure! WOW! WOW! WOW! The upper mid range bark and harshness is totally gone. The sound is now much fuller and thumping with more authority in the low end. Dynamically very good. Maybe, maybe if I had one small complaint - which I can try adjusting with some cables - would be a slightly decreased sparkle in the upper highs. I currently have in the WyWire IC's which have been specially made to reduce a bit of the high end. I'm going to try the Granite Audio #470 in between the Moon LP3 and Melody AN211. But really this means I can play them loud w/o fatigue. Oh this is going to be fun!

http://www.eaststreetaudio.com/Products/82-melody-an211.aspx

http://www.eaststreetaudio.com/images/thumbs/0000234_350.jpeg

[atomicAdam]

Mr. P -

You are driving the Zu's with your CJ, correct?

Have you heard a AN211 amp before? If you have, how would you compare it to your CJs?

[atomicAdam]

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/Zu-Melody-Rega.jpg

I'm so in love with the sound in my home right now.

1) Zu Omen Defs speakers
2) Supra speaker cables
3) Melody AN211 integrated amp
4) WyWires ICs
5) Moon LP3 phono amp
6) Rega P3/24
7) Sumiko Evo Blue Point Special

Wish I didn't have to have given back those Supra Sword Speaker cables. Talk about transparency.

[Mr Peabody]

Correct, using the CJ amps, I've not heard a 211. The Melody rep needs to hit town to see if any one would pick them up. Peachtree is the only budget tube gear I'm aware of in my area. The other tube gear is costly, ARC, Leben, Octave Audio. Well, Musical Design is here too.

I try to listen to the OD at a decent level but I keep finding the volume going up, and up.... :) They sound so very good, remaining clean and clear. On a whim I tossed in AC/DC, Back In Black, the song Hell's Bells, I wasn't ready for how grand it sounded, the gongs or large bells in the first of the song sounded real and with wait, and the sound stage large like being at the show. I wasn't sure what to expect from that album with the Zu being a honest presentation. The dynamics of the OD are addicting.

[woofersus]

Melody isn't currently sold through any brick & mortar stores. The US distributor (Angel City Audio) has a network of 5 dealers (was 6 but somebody just closed up shop) to cover the country. We're currently working on starting a demo tour in the NY area, and I'm sure it will eventually work its way across the country, but I don't know the time line at the moment, or even what gear will be touring for sure.

We decided not to do Axpona this year due to cost concerns, unfortunately, but we'll be at Lone Star Audio Fest, the California Audio Show, and Rocky Mountain Audio Fest for sure.

The dealer for MO would be Kevin at Motor City Custom Audio out of Detroit, MI. (I know that doesn't help you demo one, but at least you'd know who to call)


Glad you like it Adam. :)

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks for the info. Any idea how Melody would compare to Conrad Johnson in sound signatures?

[woofersus]

I have very limited experience with CJ stuff, so I can't really make an accurate comparison. (never heard CJ with a pair of speakers I was really familiar with) I will say, though, that Melody has a fairly wide lineup covering a lot of different types of power tubes, so there are a number of flavors to be had. Perhaps Adam can make a comparison with the Melody models he has tried.

There are a number of reviews out there that might help. Of course Adam just published the first ever review of the new entry level product, the MK88. Also, just a few days ago a review was published of the Pure Black 101 tube preamp on EnjoyTheMusic.com. There is a review of the AN211 coming down the pike very soon on Stereomojo as well.

As far as older reviews of previous versions of current products, there is a 6moons review of the I2A3 integrated (now called the Astro Black 22) and one on the old version of the Pure Black 101, then called the P1688 Signature, as well as a Stereotimes review of the old version of the Astro Black 50, then called the MI880. I believe Dagogo did a review of the even older version of the PB101/P1688 along with the previous versions of the Pure Black 50 monoblocks, now called the Pure Black 50's. I know, the name game gets a little confusing when we start talking about old versions of the gear, but for whatever reason they changed the names over the years.

[atomicAdam]

Mr. P -

Unfortunately I can't compare the Melody to the CJ, cause, well, that was my Q?

But the MK88 vs. AN211 are night and day difference. Yet both seem about a detailed and dynamic, but doing different things. And I'd say the AN211 is more detailed than the MK88 - but none of this really helps if you haven't heard it and you'd better hope it is a better amp at 3 times the price.

I just want to say I'm on day three of having the AN211 in the set up and I'm still totally amazed. I do prefer the TT source to the CDP at the moment. Though I'd best drop in some Massive Attack soon. Hehe. I'm still in complete aw at how good the AN211 sounds with the Zu's. This is really a match made in heaven - at least in my ears.

[Mr Peabody]

Well Adam I couldn't help you so I thought I'd pass the question along :) Then you get it passed back, LOL

I'm satisfied with my CJ gear. The more current CJ seems to be able to break away from the tube stereotypes while maintaining the good qualities of tubes. I like to describe CJ as "musical" because it has a groove factor or breathes soul into the music, it swings. The classic CJ gear was well known for a "glowing" midrange and sort of a romantic character to the presentation. I find the frequency response balanced, highs are not rolled off and bass is excellent, although I don't think my CJ amps reach down as far as my Krell does. I can for go subtaranian bass for everything else that's done right.

[woofersus]

But the MK88 vs. AN211 are night and day difference. Yet both seem about a detailed and dynamic, but doing different things. And I'd say the AN211 is more detailed than the MK88 - but none of this really helps if you haven't heard it and you'd better hope it is a better amp at 3 times the price.

Very true. The MK88 and AN211 aren't really trying to do the same things, and they're very different in any case. It's the cheapest integrated amp Melody makes (at least in this market) versus the most expensive; it's Push-Pull vs. SET, KT88's vs. 211's, etc. They share no tubes in common, use different transformers, (although Melody hand-winds their own, so it's the same maker) and look completely different too.

[Mr Peabody]

Wow, I should have thought of this before, Adam, I could answer your question if we got a certain Melody rep to send me over an amp for comparison. It would be a hard choice, push pull to be more apples to apples with my CJ amps or SET since I've yet to try SET.

[woofersus]

LOL, I just caught that I deferred to Adam on a question he first posed. Must've selectively skipped over that post. :lol:

As far as a demo, I'll have to see if there's something I can do for you. I don't have one here in Ohio to lend you, so it wouldn't be my call. We're working on setting up a demo tour that was to start in NY, but maybe it can start more halfway across. I'm not totally sure what equipment is promised where either, so if the AN211 is destined elsewhere after Adam is done with it, we may tour something else. I will report back with info.

[frenchmon]

Adam...Is the AN211 warm? I find Mr P's CJ warm toned and passionate...not as open and lush as ARC. Have you heard ARC tubed gear? If so is the AN211 towards that type of presentation?

[atomicAdam]

Adam...Is the AN211 warm? I find Mr P's CJ warm toned and passionate...not as open and lush as ARC. Have you heard ARC tubed gear? If so is the AN211 towards that type of presentation?

FM - I've not heard that gear but I could say the AN211 is warm and passionate and clear in the high ends but not to the point where every record sounds like it has a lot of air to it. Some records do, like Belle & Sebastian's Tigermilk - you can hear all the space and noise in the microphones and with other records like Santana's Abraxas the sparkle of chimes and punchiness and tone of the drums are perfect and not airy at all.

I'm actually considering buying a pair of the Omens if they sound as good as the def's. The cross over is at a different point, though the main driver is the same I think the Def's might have a better tweeter. But if they do or I can get a Def tweeter in an Omen I'm going to buy one and start down a path of AN211 - 300B - and other warm tube amp reviews. I'm seriously loving the sound from this pairing. It isn't perfect, it isn't a $80,000 Marten Coltrane 2 - but it is lively, tonal perfect for me, dynamic, detailed, and fun. I'd go for the Omens because of space and staging would be easier in my small place.

[frenchmon]

FM - I've not heard that gear but I could say the AN211 is warm and passionate and clear in the high ends but not to the point where every record sounds like it has a lot of air to it. Some records do, like Belle & Sebastian's Tigermilk - you can hear all the space and noise in the microphones and with other records like Santana's Abraxas the sparkle of chimes and punchiness and tone of the drums are perfect and not airy at all.

I'm actually considering buying a pair of the Omens if they sound as good as the def's. The cross over is at a different point, though the main driver is the same I think the Def's might have a better tweeter. But if they do or I can get a Def tweeter in an Omen I'm going to buy one and start down a path of AN211 - 300B - and other warm tube amp reviews. I'm seriously loving the sound from this pairing. It isn't perfect, it isn't a $80,000 Marten Coltrane 2 - but it is lively, tonal perfect for me, dynamic, detailed, and fun. I'd go for the Omens because of space and staging would be easier in my small place.

have you heard CJ gear? Mr. P's CJ/Zu set up sounds just like you described of the AN211. On the other hand...ARC is not as sweet sounding and warm as the CJ. The ARC was a different presentation all together....less sweet but retaining all the romance.

[atomicAdam]

have you heard CJ gear? Mr. P's CJ/Zu set up sounds just like you described of the AN211. On the other hand...ARC is not as sweet sounding and warm as the CJ. The ARC was a different presentation all together....less sweet but retaining all the romance.

I've not heard the CJ gear that is similar to Mr. P's. I've also not heard ARC.

[frenchmon]

I've not heard the CJ gear that is similar to Mr. P's. I've also not heard ARC.

Both might be candidates for a review by you? You think so?

[atomicAdam]

Both might be candidates for a review by you? You think so?

This is true but I thought I heard CJ was hard to get review samples from.

[frenchmon]

Oh...may be its because they are well known and respected?

[atomicAdam]

Oh...may be its because they are well known and respected?

Could be anyone with the last name Johnson is just a dick....

I'm just playing. IDK, and I'm not sure it is even true - I just for some reason remember reading or hearing that some where. But my brain certainly isn't w/o flaws.

[frenchmon]

Could be anyone with the last name Johnson is just a dick....

I'm just playing. IDK, and I'm not sure it is even true - I just for some reason remember reading or hearing that some where. But my brain certainly isn't w/o flaws.

Hahahahaha! that was to funny! :hand:

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, don't the Omen and the Def have the same 12" cabinet footprint? You'd definitely lose a bit of air movement in the bottom end but might not be a big deal if your room isn't large. I think both use the same drivers.

I auditioned ARC in my system before the CJ and dismissed it. You don't hear about it but I find owners of this gear are either CJ, or, ARC, two distinct camps. I heard some older ARC on Martin Logan ReQuests with a Wadia source and the system was hauntingly good. I find the newer stuff dry and industrial sounding. "Industrial" just gives me a feeling of gray and cold.

Keep in mind Frenchie the system you heard was only an ARC preamp, the source and going through the Mac amp would cover some of the ARC's character. You need to hear an all ARC combo. You might like it though.

[frenchmon]

Adam, don't the Omen and the Def have the same 12" cabinet footprint? You'd definitely lose a bit of air movement in the bottom end but might not be a big deal if your room isn't large. I think both use the same drivers.

I auditioned ARC in my system before the CJ and dismissed it. You don't hear about it but I find owners of this gear are either CJ, or, ARC, two distinct camps. I heard some older ARC on Martin Logan ReQuests with a Wadia source and the system was hauntingly good. I find the newer stuff dry and industrial sounding. "Industrial" just gives me a feeling of gray and cold.

Keep in mind Frenchie the system you heard was only an ARC preamp, the source and going through the Mac amp would cover some of the ARC's character. You need to hear an all ARC combo. You might like it though.

So if that preamp was not connected to the Mac but some other ARC amp It would sounded "industrial". Most people I talk to who have heard ARC...old or new have a favorable opinion about it. I have just sent my buddy a text to see if he has is ARC amp fixed yet. I hope so.....I will get a chance to listen to see if its sounds industrial.

[Trinity]

Morning guys,

How did I miss this thread? :)

Melody AN Series is really special comparing with their standard product lines.

I've been listening to the AN300B with my LS6 for the last few days and it's just excellent.

[devuonoste]

Hi Trinity,

Are the LS6s from av123?

If they are, how do you find the Melody works on them for bass control?

I find that I either need a tube amp with huge power or a hybrid power amp or SS to get good bass control on mine.

Can you compare the Melody over other good quality amps you've tried on them? I know you mention the AN series is better than their standard product lines but have you tried something else with the LS6s?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Sorry I'm getting off topic a bit.

Nice to read that Mr.P, Atomic Adam and others are enjoying the Zus. Something to think about when I purchase speakers again, as it seems they do a lot of things I value, right.

[Trinity]

Yes and no.

It's the same speaker but we are producing them now. :)

I have had Joule Electra VZN-100, Onix XIA-160 Reference Integrated Amp, and various Melody playing with the LS6 and to date the best combination is Melody Pure Black 101 & PM845 Monoblocks.

The Joule Electra tends to be a bit on the velvet side albeit a little noisy due to OTL design while Melody is like a modern day tuby, smooth and yet also punchy.

I'm out of PM845 stock so I just plug in the AN300B and while it's not the same powerful SQ as PB101/PM845 combo but it's a potent contender.

Furthermore, apology to Adam for the tangent, if you're looking for a powerful speaker then look no further than the LS6 & LS9.

Hi Trinity,

Are the LS6s from av123?

If they are, how do you find the Melody works on them for bass control?

I find that I either need a tube amp with huge power or a hybrid power amp or SS to get good bass control on mine.

Can you compare the Melody over other good quality amps you've tried on them? I know you mention the AN series is better than their standard product lines but have you tried something else with the LS6s?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Sorry I'm getting off topic a bit.

Nice to read that Mr.P, Atomic Adam and others are enjoying the Zus. Something to think about when I purchase speakers again, as it seems they do a lot of things I value, right.

[devuonoste]

Thanks for the info Hugh.

Very glad to hear these speakers are still being built, as they are amazing and it would be a shame if they were not available.

Now back to the Zu topic. I just noticed on Audiogon that there's someone in Canada selling a pair of new, sealed Zu Omen Defn for $2200 obo + shipping. Looks like a really good deal and I really want to try these out but my wife would kill me if I make another audio purchase now. I'll have to wait a while I guess. Looks like someone will be getting a really good deal.

[Mr Peabody]

I have to wonder with a 60 day Zu return policy how could some one have a pair not opened. I guess maybe if you were a real procrastinator but seems strange.

[devuonoste]

Hi Mr. P,

I think the guy bought a set for HT but now he only wants 2ch and the trial period must have elapsed. You can see pics of them in his ad and it looks as though he only opened one box to take photos but the speaker looks sealed in its plastic.

Glad you are enjoying your Zus. How many hours do you have on them now and are you still finding that they are improving?

Take Care

[Poultrygeist]

Things don't sound too good at Zu. Shocking stuff. Maybe this explains the price fluctuations.


http://www.zuaudio.com/#zu-audio-history.php

[Mr Peabody]

The link took me to the "History" maybe I gave up too soon reading, what are you talking about?

[woofersus]

It's at the very end of the history. Apparently they got screwed over at the end of last year and are now having to chip away at a mountain of debt. They seem to be solvent still though, and moving forward.

[atomicAdam]

It's at the very end of the history. Apparently they got screwed over at the end of last year and are now having to chip away at a mountain of debt. They seem to be solvent still though, and moving forward.

Are we reading the same thing?

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, it's in 4th quarter 2010 where they hire that Kristian guy who nearly breaks them. Hopefully the company caught it in time to recover. I like Zu's attitude and more so the fact their products back it up. I wonder how many companies have fallen due to weasels like that guy.

[atomicAdam]

Adam, it's in 4th quarter 2010 where they hire that Kristian guy who nearly breaks them. Hopefully the company caught it in time to recover. I like Zu's attitude and more so the fact their products back it up. I wonder how many companies have fallen due to weasels like that guy.

Oh.. I missed the scroll buttons at the top. Was wondering why it was so short.

I guess I might have met that guy at one of the shows - a google image search of him doesn't show much of his face. i think the linked in profile image is wrong.

[devuonoste]

Too bad so many have to suffer from the actions of one guy. I know of another company that was brought down from the actions of one guy and it sucks, as they had the best bang for your buck equipment and had a huge following. The effect was so strong that I know of one company, that was associated with this now out of business company at one time or another, that is suffering and my need to change their label as a result or pull out of the US for a while.

I hope Zu can recover from this and do well.

Very Sad!

[Jack in Wilmington]

I just read a very good review on the Zu Essence in TAS and they don't mention any trouble at the company. Hope everything is getting back on track.

[Fred70433]

Well I'm a newb here and this is my first post. I've been following this thread as I have an interest in Zu speakers (although I own a pair of Klipsch Icons).

Intersting fix that Zu managed to get themselves into. I have no doubt that they will overcome these difficulties, a good product base will pull them out of it.

So, Adam, how have the Omen Def's been coming along? Approximately how many hours do you have on them and what is your opinion at present. I am keenly interested as I will be upgrading over my present set of Klipsch's. I had originally been looking at the Essence, but why settle for a single 10" driver when you can have two!

I'll admit that I'm also looking into the Von Schweikert VR-33's. A couple bucks more, but I've heard nothing but excellent opinions on them. Any ideas guys/gals?

[Mr Peabody]

I have and had some Klipsch models, my former speakers were Dynaudio Contour series, so the OD's had big shoes to fill, I find the OD an excellent sounding speaker. I was first interested in the Essence as well but when Zu learned I like a wide variety of music steered me toward the Soul Superfly. My amps need a 4 to 8 ohm load though so the OD was pretty much my only option. Although that was the situation I am pleased with the performance of the Omen Def very much. The OD have much more refinement and detail over Klipsch while remaining dynamic and low distortion. In fact, I'm not sure if I've heard another speaker hold it together like the OD when driven at high volume. The OD also provide overall great sound which satisfies my standard I have come to expect from my Dynaudio. I've played a variety of music through the OD from Opeth and AC/DC to Enya, a variety of Jazz and a bit of Classical, I found it all to sound great and keep me captivated. Zu offers a 60 day audition with return, you really owe it to yourself to try them. They do require many hours of break in. I played mine 24/7 letting a tuner play with intervals of my listening to other sources to see if they've improved.

[atomicAdam]

I as well think the OD are a very good speaker.

As Mr. P said, they do a lot of things right. Here is where I would point out some of the things they aren't doing for me, or just the sound compared to other speakers.

They sound slightly more metallic than woody when playing strings. This is kind of hard to notice, and the metallic after taste can be highly altered based on the amplifier. With the Melody AN211 that metallic flavor is still there, but it is over shadowed by a more wet sensation.

Slight backing gear alterations can change the sound wildly. It is very easy for me to go from love to hate with a simple interconnect change.

Drums sound fantastic on these. I think in effect they are basically big drums. Ports at the bottom and not a very tight box. I'm sure at high volumes there is resonance from the cabinet but it doesn't sound off in any way. In fact it might help to add some wood to the sound. But seriously - drum solos - both from a classic rock style drummer to poly rhythmic hand drums - seriously amazing at high volumes.

Staging has been a bit of an issue for me. I think it is because in all honesty my room is too small for these speakers. I had issues with holes just on the inside of the speakers. Center is very clean, but left/right panned instruments sound packed up. I've got the OD pretty much pointed at my noise at this point and it has helped fill those gaps but still some times instruments sound packed on each other. Left/right/center. On a good and well staged recording it does pan out

I'm going to try playing with no toe in after a bit. In fact today I've broken back out the Mytere ia11 and the Glow One to plug into the ODs again and mess around.

If there is one major issue I have, they reveal the noise floor of my turntable too easily. So when I crank up the analog I get the floor as well. This isn't an issue so much with the speakers, but it makes me want to get a better phono amp. And that is a grand or so I don't have at the moment.

Also with the OD I generally feel I'm a couple rows back from the action. This can be interesting but at certain volumes can feel disengaging. At high volumes, it might be good since I can play the music very loud for long periods of time. Granted they are being driven by an amplifier twice as expensive as they are, and very fully bodied and liquid sounding amplifier at that. So..... I like them and would recommend them. But they take some careful pairing.

Also I heard the Omens are a warmer speaker and slightly less revealing. I'd love to hear a warmer version of the OD and keep the extreme amount of detail they provide.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, let me know how you like the OD firing straight. That's how I set mine up. I try not to sell the Zu too hard but they have given me a new found enthusiasm for listening. Also, the guys at Zu are very receptive to phone calls if you want to pick their brain for set up advice.

[Fred70433]

I as well think the OD are a very good speaker.

As Mr. P said, they do a lot of things right. Here is where I would point out some of the things they aren't doing for me, or just the sound compared to other speakers.

They sound slightly more metallic than woody when playing strings. This is kind of hard to notice, and the metallic after taste can be highly altered based on the amplifier. With the Melody AN211 that metallic flavor is still there, but it is over shadowed by a more wet sensation.

Slight backing gear alterations can change the sound wildly. It is very easy for me to go from love to hate with a simple interconnect change.

Drums sound fantastic on these. I think in effect they are basically big drums. Ports at the bottom and not a very tight box. I'm sure at high volumes there is resonance from the cabinet but it doesn't sound off in any way. In fact it might help to add some wood to the sound. But seriously - drum solos - both from a classic rock style drummer to poly rhythmic hand drums - seriously amazing at high volumes.

Staging has been a bit of an issue for me. I think it is because in all honesty my room is too small for these speakers. I had issues with holes just on the inside of the speakers. Center is very clean, but left/right panned instruments sound packed up. I've got the OD pretty much pointed at my noise at this point and it has helped fill those gaps but still some times instruments sound packed on each other. Left/right/center. On a good and well staged recording it does pan out

I'm going to try playing with no toe in after a bit. In fact today I've broken back out the Mytere ia11 and the Glow One to plug into the ODs again and mess around.

If there is one major issue I have, they reveal the noise floor of my turntable too easily. So when I crank up the analog I get the floor as well. This isn't an issue so much with the speakers, but it makes me want to get a better phono amp. And that is a grand or so I don't have at the moment.

Also with the OD I generally feel I'm a couple rows back from the action. This can be interesting but at certain volumes can feel disengaging. At high volumes, it might be good since I can play the music very loud for long periods of time. Granted they are being driven by an amplifier twice as expensive as they are, and very fully bodied and liquid sounding amplifier at that. So..... I like them and would recommend them. But they take some careful pairing.

Also I heard the Omens are a warmer speaker and slightly less revealing. I'd love to hear a warmer version of the OD and keep the extreme amount of detail they provide.


I appreciate the honesty of your observations. I too have a rather small listening room which can present some challenges. I've noticed that you've tried several tube amps with the OD's. Rather than swapping out amps repeatedly, have you considered merely rolling tube compliments? Changing brands of tubes is like getting a whole new amp. One of the things I really like about valve gear.

[No Cacophony Needed]

My Omen Definitions sound best with a bit of toe in. I think factors such as room size, speaker placement, related gear, listening distance and location, etc. interplay with how speakers, including those from Zu, should be set up. To each their own, let your ears tell you what works for you. Happy listening.

[atomicAdam]

Hi All -

A little update - well - i'm moving and i'm going to have to send my Omen Defs back soon. I'm going to be very sad. That and the Melody AN211 - but I've had a fantastic month or so once I've got them dialed in.

I wanted to let you all know I just toed them in even more than I had before - now I think the tweeters are pointing at my nose. The sound is even better! I was having some issues with holes in the sound just on the insides of the speakers and that is no more. The stage is now complete, the show is beginning, and it is just about time for me to leave. I'm going to miss this combo.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, I thought you recently just moved into that place. The set up you describe with the Zu is what they recommended I try. I am going to try pointing them in, I hesitate because they are not light and I'm using the spikes. I also want to find something to help me get the speakers setting at the exact same angle or at least as close as possible.

[No Cacophony Needed]

I also want to find something to help me get the speakers setting at the exact same angle or at least as close as possible.The walls in my music room run true. So, to get the same toe-in angle for each speaker, I measured the distance at the very bottom of the first speaker, for each of the speakers two rear corners to the rear wall. I then transferred / mirrored those two distances to the 2nd speaker. Thus, each speaker will be the same distance from the rear wall / at the same angle. (This made for some fun observations from my wife until I explained to her what I was doing and and why.)

[Mr Peabody]

The walls in my music room run true. So, to get the same toe-in angle for each speaker, I measured the distance at the very bottom of the first speaker, for each of the speakers two rear corners to the rear wall. I then transferred / mirrored those two distances to the 2nd speaker. Thus, each speaker will be the same distance from the rear wall / at the same angle. (This made for some fun observations from my wife until I explained to her what I was doing and and why.)

LOL, thanks

[atomicAdam]

Adam, I thought you recently just moved into that place. The set up you describe with the Zu is what they recommended I try. I am going to try pointing them in, I hesitate because they are not light and I'm using the spikes. I also want to find something to help me get the speakers setting at the exact same angle or at least as close as possible.

Yep - I did - and yep I have to again - and nope I'm not thrilled.

I use the string method to get the speakers set up correctly.

[Mr Peabody]

Adam, did you ever fire the OD forward? Just curious on the comparison if you had.

[atomicAdam]

Adam, did you ever fire the OD forward? Just curious on the comparison if you had.

I did but that was when I first had them in and was having issues matching with amplifier. That is on my list of things to do this week though. Soon as I get over this f'ing strep throat - or wtf got inside my throat.

[atomicAdam]

Well the Zu OD are packed up and ready to ship out. I've still got a plugged ear so I've not been able to listen to them facing straight on. Sad.... :( Sad I have to send them back too. But it has been a great adventure.