bi amp [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums


View Full Version : bi amp

01-13-2011, 02:59 AM
How do I connect up a recently bought arcam 8 amp to my existing arcam 7r amp,
my speakers have the 4 terminals for bi wiring or bi amping.I also have a arcam 7se cd player,,so this amp will marry up the system.I have bi wired befe but not bi amped.Any advice would be great,my interconnects are audioquest emerald@speaker cable is Chord harmony ,it sounds great as it is,but the extra power should work.My speakers are Eltax Monitor 3
'I find them good for the price for bookshelf speakers,any help greatly appreaciated.
Regards Bob.

Mr Peabody
01-13-2011, 08:04 PM
Arcam is nice gear. You will need to look at the back of your speakers, you should see strips of metal or some other type of jumper connecting the speaker terminals together, you will need to remove those. Being a bit familiar with Arcam but not sure if you have an integrated or two power amps and just didn't mention the preamp, the 8 will have a bit more power so connect it to the bass terminals and the 7r to the high terminals. Typically, the bass is the bottom set of terminals while the highs are the top. If your pre or integrated doesn't have two sets of outputs you will have to use a "Y" adaptor in order to run both amps. If you have a preamp Y off with one leg of the left to the 8 and the other left to the 7 and repeat the same on right. If an integrated one side of the Y will go back into the integrated's preamp input while the other side to the 8.

This will work better if the amps have a gain control for the input. You may find it not necessary but in many instances a gain is helpful to balance the sound in case maybe the 7 drives the highs too loud and your speakers sound unbalanced. Or, just simple tweaking to preference. Any way it should be a fun event. I hope this helps.

This may be more than you ever wanted to know, I refer back to this occasionally.....

01-16-2011, 09:28 AM
Or are you tapping into the speakers' original crossover? If this is so, I do not see an advantage relative to the complication & cost.

Otherwise, I infer that the drivers might be operating full-range meaning the result will not be an improvement.

This would be a lot easier with a diagram/schematic.

Mr Peabody
01-16-2011, 12:19 PM
Optimum set up would be to use an external crossover and bypass the internal speaker crossover but that is typically not easy for most home speakers or users. Biamping can sometimes still improve things even with using the speakers crossover and both sets of provided terminals.

01-22-2011, 04:26 AM
Hi,thanks for your reply.I have the arcam 7 r amp +alpha 7se cd player.I have now bought the arcam 8 as I said.I thought it would just be a case as when you wire up pre @ power amps?.i willtry your suggestions.
My main system is as follows.--Roksan CDP1 updated to current Roksan speck +Pink triangle da capo.Into a Arion Acoustic TYCHO 50 Watt class A integrated Valve Amp.
My speakers are Rega 5s with bi wire by Chord Rumour interconnects are 20 yr old audioquest emerald @ still do the business.I have a Nacamichi DR2 which still plays as good as ever, a Revox B77 mk 2 brings up the rear,whch I bought in the 80s +tuners etc.
I also have a Akai gx 95 11 pro.which I am selling the last two items.
so after nearly 40yrs of assembling this system,maybe its time for it all to go.Its been great fun over the years @ I still love my music,regards Bob.

Mr Peabody
01-22-2011, 07:27 AM
I like Arcam but I have to imagine that valve amp sounds pretty good, each would have very different presentations. If you are thinking of biamping from the Arion maybe try the valve amp connected to the mids/highs speaker terminal and the Arcam 8 to the bass terminals. You have a nice set up already.

Have you compared the Arcam 7se to the Roksan CDP to see which is better?

01-22-2011, 10:09 AM
.Hi there,thanks for coming back on my question.Playing the Arcam against the Arion is a very different sound alltogether.I have only been able to play the Arcam as an integrated amp @ as such it is a very detailed cd player.On voice the it is as good as I have heard in a long time,very detaled @ accurate,as you know I have not as yet wired up the power amp.I will have a go tomorrow Sunday, will wire it as you suggest,I will use "Linn"K20 speaker cable for the bass drivers @ AudioQuest interconnrct from pre. to power,
My "Arion" Amp is something totally different both in power @ presentation.It,s a very clear @ special amp with the way i have it all set up.It is amazingly detailed in all typer of music,I can listen to the "Highwaymen" or "Stan Getz" Dizzie or Dolly Parton.The Amp just loves good music ,Well I am being told my dinner is 5 minutes away,regard;) s Bob.

01-23-2011, 07:28 AM
A little late to the party but I would use the pre-amp outs from the 7R and send the signal to the inputs of the 8 using a quality stereo interconnect.. As suggested I would use the 8 for the woofers and the 7R for the upper range. Since you will be using different runs of cables one pair from the 8 to the woofers and one pair from the 7R to the upper range I would also use the larger guage cable if there is a difference for the woofers.

When you biwire do you have two pair of speaker cables or one pair of internally biwired cables per speaker? If they are internally biwired which means there is one pair of spades or banans at the amp end and two pairs at the speaker end you will most likely need another pair of speaker cables.

Good luck and enjoy your new amp.

01-23-2011, 08:42 AM
Hi there, I have spent the past 2 hrs hrs like all good audiophiles upside down passing cables to @ fro between cd player 7r amp @to the arcam 8.Will some one tell me when this stopped being enjoyable,I came out of the sun lounge grabbed a can of 7 up @sat for a for the good bit,it worked for 5 minutes out of the right hand channel,I shut down @then pulled everything out @ started again nothing obvious at this time @ I am fast used up todays run of pateince so I will leave it for tomorrow,a Danish Skipper once told me."Time was invented by the Swiss , in order to sell watches." So I will take heed of Eric @ pour a dram @call it a day. Any exscuse will do.Bob.

Mr Peabody
01-23-2011, 12:59 PM
Well matie, what did you hook to what?

01-27-2011, 04:12 AM
Hi there,
well I did as was suggested.I used my Linn cable for the bass @ then the Chord for the tweeters,I made sure both were of equal length ' then connected the Audioquest interconnect.
I could not get a peep out of it.There is no output from the 8 amp at all.I even tried connecting just the cd player to the amp @ just listening through my head phones,zilch.
I have e mailed the seller,so we will see what happens,thanks for your interest,
Regards Bob.::

01-27-2011, 07:00 AM
Hi there,
well I did as was suggested.I used my Linn cable for the bass @ then the Chord for the tweeters,I made sure both were of equal length ' then connected the Audioquest interconnect.
I could not get a peep out of it.There is no output from the 8 amp at all.I even tried connecting just the cd player to the amp @ just listening through my head phones,zilch.
I have e mailed the seller,so we will see what happens,thanks for your interest,
Regards Bob.::

Sounds like the 8 is not working. Have you checked any fuses? If it is working could there be a problem with how it is hooked up.

Can you tell us exactly how things are hooked up? I know what cables you used but not sure what inputs and outputs you used. If the 8 is not working I would assume no bass. When I googled the 7r and it said it was an intrgrated amp and I would like to know is it an integrated amp.

01-31-2011, 07:19 AM
Hi there John.
The Arcam 7r is an antigrated amp,but if you use both sets of speaker outputs ,you can bi amp with the Arcam 8.You use the 7r as a pre amp @use the speaker out to your speakers tweeter @ using audio interconnects terminals on the back of the 8amp then you can then connect the pre side to the arcam 8 amps speaker terminals to the bass terminals on the speaker.That is assuming you have two sets of speaker terminals,so thats how i see it,i hope thats right,maybe Mr Peabody would come in on that,regards Bob.

01-31-2011, 07:58 AM
Sorry if I am a little dense today but a little confused by what you are saying. CD player plugged into Arcam 7r then one set of cables from the 7r speaker outputs to the tweeters. Next from the preamp output of the 7r to the inputs of the 8. Then another set of cables from the speaker outputs of the 8 to the woofers. That is how I think it should be set up.

01-31-2011, 08:13 AM
Bob, on the back of your 7r the first set of rca plugs are the preamp out. Take an interconnect from the preamp out to the inputs of the 8. SP1 is where the cables for the tweeters should go. You would not use the second set of speaker termianals. You need to go from the 7r preamp outs to the 8 inputs so both amps will have the signal to amplify. Then the 8's speaker terminals to the woofers.

01-31-2011, 09:23 AM
hi John,yes that is how i have it wired as you suggest,the 8 amp shows power on but no sound at all,not even a sound as if there is something happening,i think its knackerd,parden my french.i am dissapointed as i hoped it would work,as suggested,its a bummer really.It sounds fine as it is,as my sun lounge is,nt that large 12by12,in there its fine but we are always curious,to would it sound better,if,' its always the incongrous,IF,thats what makes it all worthwhile.My wifes just shouted that my tea is nearly ready,so i will sign off,all the best,Bob.

01-31-2011, 10:41 AM
Bob, I had another question. Is the 8 a power amp or another integrated amp? If the 8 is an integrated amp you want to turn the volume knob to the loudest setting because the volume knob of the 7r will control the volume.

02-01-2011, 03:29 AM
Hi John,thanks for coming back with your comments,it is a 8amp,my son came round last night ' we had a look inside the amp.The seller said it would be a waste of his money for me to send it back,as repair costs are so expensive.So myself @ my son had a good look.
There is nothing glaringly obvious that you could say,thats wrong,we could not smell any tell tale signs of anything that has fried.My nearest Arcam dealer is 60 mls away,not far you might say,but at the moment it all looks like i was,i know a chap who like me,was a fisherman,he was a wireless operator '@we sailed together many years ago,in the early 60s,working the west side of Iceland,in the good old days.Ha ha,what a laugh.
We are both leisure sailors now @only sail yachts when its a little warmer than at present.
Well John,i some how got sidetracked there,Regards Bob.

Mr Peabody
02-01-2011, 05:38 AM
If your Arcam dealer did repairs it may be worth the trip, otherwise I'd contact the U.S. rep and see about sending it back to them for repair. They will usually give you an RA# and a place to send it. That's a bummer it don't work.

02-01-2011, 01:37 PM
Hi there,thanks for coming back.The seller says he will refund my payment to me,if that happens then all is not lost.Anyway you guys, thank you for yor support,
speak with you again,regards Bob.

02-23-2011, 02:37 PM
Hi there,i finally have my arcam 8 back up @ running,thank you guys for all your suggestions.I have my Arcam system up ' running @ sounding quite sweet,i am amazed how these diminutive speakers have so much poke.i have placed them on stands @ further to that i have placed 19mm sorbothane feet under both speakers,i do not know why this is so positive a tweek,but we all know little things can change the whole listening experiance.I have sorbothane under pre @power amps +under the cd player it all just flows.Once again thanks guys for your help @advice,regards Bob.

03-15-2011, 04:01 AM
Hi there,
I just thought i would let you know how things are.My system in the sun lounge is working really well,I am digging out cd,s I hav,nt looked at in years.What this Arcam set up does extremely well,is allow you to here all of the music.I was playing" Stan Getz,s" album "Jazz Samba" yesterday afternoon,@ was so impressed with the imaging @clarity,it is now so revealing.
Question,my lad has bought himself the 8r integrated @8se cd player on the back of how mine sounds,I was around at his home on Sunday @he played some "George Micheal" for me,he has a problem in as much that there is a definite bias towards the right channel,I could not hear anything from the left channel sat 8ft in front @ to the right.If he altered the balance control we then had balance,but thats not the cure,he is not a happy chappy at the moment!
Any of you guys any suggestions as he will be bending my ear otherwise?
All the best,regards Bob.

Mr Peabody
03-15-2011, 08:37 AM
I would play around first to isolate where the problem is, switch the RCA's left to right to see if the same channel is bad, try another CD player or source to see if the same problem. If the bad channel switches to the other side with the cables then it is a bad set of cables. Could be simply one not pushed in all the way. If the same channel persists through all experiments then it's time to put the amp in the shop. You could try some contact cleaner on the pots to see if that helps. Usually dirty pots will be accompanied by noise when it is turned, sort of that scratching or cutting out noise.

Glad to hear your system is singing to you :)

03-18-2011, 04:34 AM
Mr P,
thanks for coming back,it,s one of those things that happens sometimes.Between us all we have got there,the beauty of age is that sometimes it,s best just to let things be a while & then give it a bloody good looking at.He has now got his new inter connects & he says it,s much better,so thanks again.He at this moment is trying to set up a newly acquired Sony Blu-Ray player to my Sony Bravia TV but it will not talk to it at the moment,so he is taking it home to lower the setting on his.He is on 1080p &mine is on less? now this is over the top for me.
See you again ,regards Bob.

Mr Peabody
03-18-2011, 01:37 PM
I don't know Bob, sounds like just an excuse to play with dad's new Blu-ray Player to me. :)

03-28-2011, 01:36 PM
Hi Mr P,how are things with you? You could well be right,anyhow he has it up & running.If it had have been down to me, I could still be looking at it .I have a question for you.
I have a "Arion Tycho"valve amp,I have not used it a lot of late,as it hurts for me to climb stairs.I have noticed that recently the amp is making a humming noise on the front left transformer block,if however I put hand pressure the humming stops.The amp is mounted on a custom made wall stand & all audio connections are sound.
I do not want to start making things worse by fiddling,it generally means I will break it,anyway do you have any thoughts you might throw my way.
Hope to hear from you soon,regards Bob.

Mr Peabody
03-28-2011, 06:30 PM
The repair thing is not my area, however, if it stops when you put your hand on it seems it could just be something needing snugged up a bit. Although I'm not sure where the vibration would come from. Only other thing that comes to mind is a ground issue and when you touch it you ground the amp. I don't think you'd hurt anything just by making sure all the screws are snug.

04-19-2011, 01:46 AM
Mr Peabody,how are you,
so I have had a bit on my plate of late,I have had one thing after another come up.
I bought a lovely 1931 Garrard antique clock for my self,for my forthcoming Seventieth birthday next month,the trouble was it took an age for me to set it up, at one point i decided it was female as it would only work facing the wall! I kid you not.anyway I sent for a man who can & its running & chiming as well as I wished.
Now to matters Hi Fi,I have not switched on my upstairs system of late as my leg is not good at present for climbing stairs,& in all honesty my little Arcam system is doing very well & the more I use it the better it sounds,my wife says different of course,now I am rambling,I just thought I would let you know how things are,all the the best,
Regards sailorbob.:thumbsup:

Mr Peabody
04-19-2011, 05:05 PM
Ahoy! mate. Hope the leg gets better. The Arcam may not be as sweet as the upstairs system but I enjoy it's soundstage and detail. Arcam is typically very quick too.

04-26-2011, 04:49 AM
:) Hi there,whats your views on adding a dac to my current set up? I am thinking in terms of the
MF v-dac,any comments,Bob.

Mr Peabody
04-26-2011, 03:44 PM
I forgot what you are using now for a CD player. A friend of mine has the MF X-ray and I was very impressed with the sound. I am a firm believer in using the best source you can, if the info isn't extracted off the disc nothing you do down stream will allow you to hear that info/detail.

05-05-2011, 02:44 AM
:smilewinkgrin: Hi there,thanks for coming back,i have opted for a arcam delta 50 black box/mainly because it was bought on auction for 110.00,so i think it should be all right with my current set up.
Arcam 7se cd+7r pre+8 p-amp,it more than fills what i think is good music making,it is effortless in presentation,& so like vinyl ? I have been overhauling my Revox b77 yesterday with a view to selling it,it still sounds absolutely brilliant,firt up was Neil Youngs Wayward Wind,I recorded that of the lp a mate loaned me,about 1995 I think,just stunning,no dacs or black boxes etc.Have we all gone bonkers over the years,thats my rave over,ps.hope you where not affected by the storms you have had,all the best,sailorbob.

Mr Peabody
05-05-2011, 03:47 PM
I am located a few miles south of the tornado damage, thanks for asking.

The 7se may sound better than the black box, have you done a comparison? For the past few years turntables and LP's have made a bit of a come back. I sure never thought I'd see the day when I could buy a new LP again. Of course, now a new LP is a bit of a nitch and usually commands a larger price than I'm willing to pay. On the plus side new LP's are generally much better quality than back in the day, many being 180 gram and some even at 45 rpm.

05-28-2011, 02:17 PM
Mr Peabody,how are you ? I am pleased to hear you are clear of the danger area,the images are shocking to say the least.
i have my dac & seems to be okay,the 73 se i have is good anyway,
the type of music I listen to is different now than when i was younger,i will be 70 tomorrow,now a confirmed old fart.
All the best,Bob.

Mr Peabody
05-28-2011, 07:04 PM
Well, hang in there like a barnical and have a happy birthday! :)

08-15-2011, 09:47 PM
I like all the feedbacks here so far. I intend to combo my 8r Integrated Amp (50wpc @ 8ohms) to a 9P Power Amp (70wpc @ 8ohms). And I have a power hungry M3Si Mirage, bi-wireable w/ four inputs for each speaker.

I have a couple of concerns.

1. I currently have one pair of internally biwired cables per speaker. Which means which means there
is one pair of banana plugs at the amp end and two pairs at the speaker end.
If I follow the feedbacks above, my internally bi-wired cables would only be good either for the
tweeter or for the woofer. One pair out of the two at the speaker end will be useless. Is this
correct? If so, then this means, I need to buy another pair of cables for either the low or high input
side of the speaker. In such case, I may just shelf and keep my internally bi-wired cables and just
buy four new set of cable pairs. Two pairs for the 8R going towards the tweeters and another two
pairs for the 9P to the woofers.

2. If I don't follow the above, and still use my internally bi-wired speaker cables, can I simply connect
the 8R to the Mirage using the bi-wire cables while the 8R is connected to the 9P via an
interconnect? What is the effect?

Appreciate your new feedbacks.


08-16-2011, 05:06 AM
:8:Hi Nad,just switched on the forum,first time in a while.My set up is as so,i take my tweeter feed from mry7r direct to the tweeters using Chord Harmony cable,& for my bass i go from my 8r to the bass driver using Lk20 which is a heavier cable.My speakers are now b&w 601 mounted on Mission Stancette stands ,i also use sorbothane feet at each corner of the speaker to the stands,unbelievable upgrade,i now have every piece of audio equipment mounted as such.They are the most interesting upgrade in 50yrs of audio hobbyist,hope this helps,good listening,