Squeezebox/Digital Set Up

[poppachubby]

Hey everyone. It's been a while since I have started a thread, so here goes...

I have now had my Squeezebox for about a month or so, and I am absolutely in love with it. I see no other device which compliments analog better. I now have my analog focus in my main system, and ripped files streamed into my HT room. Superb.

It took a while, but I finally got ALL of my files fully tagged with cover art. This aspect makes the Squeezebox even more fun for me, don't ask me why. When I browse the albums, organized alphabetically by artist, and see each cover it's like filing through my LPs...fun!!!

I should also say that I am fully enjoying the Wolfson DAC which the SB comes equipped with. It's surprisingly smooth, and of course very detailed. I only listen to FLAC or 320 kb MP3, and they are excellent through this device.

So, this brings me to my point. I have the SB analog out to my HT pro. Great stuff. I am using my Mission 707s and everything is great. The other way I am listening has been with my AKGs, plugged directly into the 1/8th jack on the SB. Very enjoyable as well. A nice impedance match with lots of headroom provided by the variable control.

I know that Ajani has made legendary the benefits of SB in a headphone system. That's got me thinking about "upgrading" my SB set up. I want to output the SB into my TeraDak Fathom, but then what? The Fathom only has analog out, and I have no headphone amp to facilitate that.

I have thought of a couple of options here. I could output to my big and bulky (but incredible sounding) Bozak preamp which has fantastic headphone ability. The problem here is a HUGE footprint which I would rather avoid.

I could buy an RCA to female 1/8th and plug into that directly. I wonder how good that would sound though.

Any thoughts here guys?

[Ajani]

I think the best option would be to buy a headphone amp... there are a number of affordable ones out there...

I'd be tempted to try either the HiFiMan EF2A, $170:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/images/HMEF2A_HAND-Large.jpg
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HMEF2A

Or the Musical Fidelity V-Can, $200:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/images/MFVCAN-Large.jpg
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFVCAN

If you really don't want to use the bulky pre or spend much money at all, then you could always try the RCA to female 1/8th adapter... I've never tried one, so I have no idea how well it would work, but it should be cheap enough to be worth the risk...

[recoveryone]

No info to add, but it just tickles me to hear your delight with this device, when some on hear deny its use for critical listening.

[Ajani]

No info to add, but it just tickles me to hear your delight with this device, when some on hear deny its use for critical listening.

I don't recall anyone on AR denying the use of a Squeezebox for critical listening... As far as I know there is quite a fan following for it here...

[E-Stat]

I don't recall anyone on AR denying the use of a Squeezebox for critical listening... As far as I know there is quite a fan following for it here...
I'm very happy with mine as well, but the wall wart power supply is measurably noisy. Adding an aftermarket linear will reduce some false brightness and improve focus and resolution. I use a Welborne Labs unit with mine. It has about half a joule of storage, uses a low noise tranny, Schottky diodes and a polypropylene bypass cap. Here (http://welbornelabs.com/psx.htm) is a pic of the board outside of the aluminum enclosure.

rw

[E-Stat]

Any thoughts here guys?
If you have an iPhone or iPad, I highly recommend the iPeng app. Since my Touch is located in a closet, the remote control is useless to me and in any case has no display or search capabilities. With the iPhone app, I can control the unit anywhere within Wi-Fi range while viewing the play list or album art.

rw

[poppachubby]

If you have an iPhone or iPad, I highly recommend the iPeng app. Since my Touch is located in a closet, the remote control is useless to me and in any case has no display or search capabilities. With the iPhone app, I can control the unit anywhere within Wi-Fi range while viewing the play list or album art.

rw

I use a Blackberry which is a part if my wifi network when in range. I wonder if there'd be an app for it?

[Dawnrazor]

Any thoughts here guys?

Sorry but I dont have an answer to your question exactly.

But here is a link that you might be interested in and promises to improve your sb if you have the touch:

http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html

[poppachubby]

I do indeed have a Touch Dawn,,,,thanks!

[E-Stat]

I use a Blackberry which is a part if my wifi network when in range. I wonder if there'd be an app for it?
Sorry, I confess that I know little about BBs. Do they offer the equivalent of the iPhone App Store?

rw

[poppachubby]

OK here's the first combination, gotta start somewhere. I have it set up but won't listen until tonight. I will be using my trusty AKG K240S.

Squeezebox Touch
TeraDak Valab 8 x TDA1543
Bozak 919 (smokin headphone section)
AudioQuest King Cobra RCA
Tributaries Delta 75ohm Coax
AR Pro Series II PR920

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5340373770_8e346c1705_z.jpg

[recoveryone]

I don't recall anyone on AR denying the use of a Squeezebox for critical listening... As far as I know there is quite a fan following for it here...

I'm one those big followers, but there has been discussion on its ability to be used as a critical listening source. If my memory serves me right I think you were one that said that it has too many short comings for use with audiophile gear without an external DAC.

"The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)..." Your own words

I'm glad he is enjoying it as I do with all of mine.

[poppachubby]

I think the onboard DAC is quite listenable. I had it running direct into my main system and it sounded great. Admittedly, I haven't done any AB tests, but I usually don't subscribe to such things. With digital equipment, my ears tell me the story almost instantly.

Tonight's listening should prove interesting and I will be sure to run the Squeezebox direct into the Bozak as well as my DAC. I'll report back my findings. The K240S are painfully transparent so it will be a good way to get a handle on it, at least for my own taste.

I basically don't listen to any digital unless it comes through a Philips TDA 154x chip. The Wolfson is a first for me in a long time, and I have heard many. Actually, I have found Yamaha to have some pretty smooth sounding stuff, but only for short listening periods. It gets on my nerves after an album or so and I begin to hear the artifacts which I despise.

[Ajani]

I'm one those big followers, but there has been discussion on its ability to be used as a critical listening source. If my memory serves me right I think you were one that said that it has too many short comings for use with audiophile gear without an external DAC.

"The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)..." Your own words

I'm glad he is enjoying it as I do with all of mine.

If what you mean by "critical listening source" is to use the Squeezebox with no external DAC, then obviously it is not going to compete with a $2K CD player... If you mean to use it in a much lower cost and quality system, then it would be fine... So in place of a $300 - $500 CDP, I'd have no issue with a standard Squeezebox... But it is not good enough to be used with no external DAC in a high quality setup... What is so hard to understand about that?

Would you put a $300 CDP as the source for a $10K Stereo? If you would then the Squeezebox would be fine for you, but most audiophiles would not make a pairing like that... Hence the Squeezebox would be inadequate by itself...

As I said before: many of us use the Squeezebox, just not without an external DAC... Some even upgrade the Power supply as well...

[recoveryone]

If what you mean by "critical listening source" is to use the Squeezebox with no external DAC and/or upgraded power supply then obviously it is not going to compete with a $2K CD player... If you mean to use it in a much lower cost and quality system, then it would be fine... So in place of a $300 - $500 CDP, I'd have no issue with a standard Squeezebox... But it is not good enough to be used with no external DAC or PS in a high quality setup... What is so hard to understand about that?

Would you put a $300 CDP as the source for a $10K Stereo? If you would then the Squeezebox would be fine for you, but most audiophiles would not make a pairing like that... Hence the Squeezebox would be inadequate by itself...

As I said before: many of us use the Squeezebox, just not without an external DAC and/or upgraded power supply...

Nice try,, you should read your own postings, I come from the world, say what you mean and mean what you say, so there is no confusion on what is being said....HAVE A NICE DAY.

[Ajani]

Nice try,, you should read your own postings, I come from the world, say what you mean and mean what you say, so there is no confusion on what is being said....HAVE A NICE DAY.

Huh? My post is clear... You are the person who claims that I don't like the Squeezebox... I've been using one for 3 years, so I fail to see where you dreamed that up from...

Perhaps you should re-read my post, and try to actually understand what I said rather than imagine a conflict that doesn't exist...

Have a nice day too...

[recoveryone]

Huh? My post is clear... You are the person who claims that I don't like the Squeezebox... I've been using one for 3 years, so I fail to see where you dreamed that up from...

Perhaps you should re-read my post, and try to actually understand what I said rather than imagine a conflict that doesn't exist...

Have a nice day too...

There you go again, did I ever call you by name?

All I said was that there are some that did not feel the SB was good enough for critical listening.

You jump in and saying that the SB is very good and many on hear support its use yes or no?

I then pull a post of your own words where you say that the SB only sounded "DECENT" when use with an external DAC. Now did I say anything about compared to a $2k CDP? I don't think so. Once again you jump on that soapbox and spout off about XYZ dollar gear and transports and that the SB can never compare. So now who is not reading or reading into what is being said.

Now for my original post was to have a laugh on how Poppy is enjoying this digital device, knowing that he is a old school vinyl listener and is have even more fun being able to view his collection.

[Ajani]

There you go again, did I ever call you by name?

All I said was that there are some that did not feel the SB was good enough for critical listening.

You jump in and saying that the SB is very good and many on hear support its use yes or no?

I then pull a post of your own words where you say that the SB only sounded "DECENT" when use with an external DAC. Now did I say anything about compared to a $2k CDP? I don't think so. Once again you jump on that soapbox and spout off about XYZ dollar gear and transports and that the SB can never compare. So now who is not reading or reading into what is being said.

Now for my original post was to have a laugh on how Poppy is enjoying this digital device, knowing that he is a old school vinyl listener and is have even more fun being able to view his collection.

The problem with "not calling me by name" is that in your response you quoted me, in a manner to imply that I am somehow anti-squeezebox... So perhaps you should take your own advice and say what you mean...

I stand by my original point from way back in the other thread:

The Squeezebox sound quality is fine for $300, but not good enough by itself in an audiophile system... It's not as good as even a $1K DAC like my Benchmark... But there has never been any shame in that, as it costs less than a third of the Benchmark's price...

I still fail to see what you find to argue with in any of my posts...

[recoveryone]

I don't recall anyone on AR denying the use of a Squeezebox for critical listening... As far as I know there is quite a fan following for it here...

This is why I pulled your quote, In my first post my comment was just in general, then you jumped in with this (above) So if you would have said with a external DAC DECENT sound could be achieved, you would have been consisted in your position, but you did not. So if anyone would read your postings from the other thread, they would conclude that the SB has weak DAC's and an external DAC is needed to just achieve a DECENT listening sound. Did I miss read that or what?????

[Ajani]

This is why I pulled your quote, In my first post my comment was just in general, then you jumped in with this (above) So if you would have said with a external DAC DECENT sound could be achieved, you would have been consisted in your position, but you did not. So if anyone would read your postings from the other thread, they would conclude that the SB has weak DAC's and an external DAC is needed to just achieve a DECENT listening sound. Did I miss read that or what?????

My "Jumping in" did not require nor justify your quote in any manner... What I said stands: AFAIK no one on AR has denied the use of the Squeezebox for critical listening... There are loads of fans of it here... So the only reason to quote me is to claim that I am one of the persons who would not use the Squeezebox for critical listening... Which makes no sense to anyone, since I've used one in combination with my DAC1 for that purpose for over 3 years!

Compared to my $1K Benchmark, the Squeezebox internal DAC is weak... What is your issue?

Since DECENT is relative, I don't see what there is to argue on that... Would you prefer I say to achieve GREAT sound, use an external DAC? But that would imply that my DAC1 sounds GREAT... If I remember my reasoning (from that thread you so quickly referenced from MONTHS ago) I used DECENT rather than GREAT as GREAT sounds arrogant and over-hypes the DAC1... But since you feel offended by the word DECENT for some reason, feel free to substitute whatever word you like...

However, no choice of wording you like will change my opinion that the Squeezebox doesn't sound as good as my DAC1/other more expensive units... It's fine for $300, but it won't cut it in higher quality setups (unless you add an external DAC)...

So we can waste more time arguing about lord alone know what, or just move on and let the OP's thread get back on track... Especially since in your first post here you admitted to having nothing to add anyway...

[02audionoob]

I'd say Ajani's position on the Squeezebox has been clear and consistent on this and every thread.

I keep wishing I had a use for a headphone amp. I like the looks of the EF2A posted above. I was impressed with the sound quality of the headphone output of my Bellari VP130 when I had it. I almost kept it for that alone, but I'm ultimately anti-headphone, so off it went.

[recoveryone]

I think you are seeing the issue, you keep comparing it to your $1k DAC anyone that buys a SB would know that it will not compete on the same level as a more expensive DAC or should not be able to. And the reason for buying one is for the convenience of playback and storage of their music. For the price paid the DAC's in a SB are hard to beat in that price range. Now if it was the Transport model then there would be something to argue about since it is in the same price range as your DAC.

So just as you keep comparing the SB to your DAC, It gets under my skin when I see people trying to straddle the fence on issues, Its just in my nature to call them on it.

Peace!

[recoveryone]

[quote=02audionoob]I'd say Ajani's position on the Squeezebox has been clear and consistent on this and every thread.

Ok. tell me what is his position then?

[Ajani]

I think you are seeing the issue, you keep comparing it to your $1k DAC anyone that buys a SB would know that it will not compete on the same level as a more expensive DAC or should not be able to. And the reason for buying one is for the convenience of playback and storage of their music. For the price paid the DAC's in a SB are hard to beat in that price range. Now if it was the Transport model then there would be something to argue about since it is in the same price range as your DAC.

So just as you keep comparing the SB to your DAC, It gets under my skin when I see people trying to straddle the fence on issues, Its just in my nature to call them on it.

Peace!

So since I've never said that the SB's internal DAC is subpar for a $300 product, then you have had no reason to argue with my either back in my old thread or in this one...

You are arguing a point I have neither made nor implied...

[recoveryone]

So since I've never said that the SB's internal DAC is subpar for a $300 product, then you have had no reason to argue with my either back in my old thread or in this one...

You are arguing a point I have neither made nor implied...

Did you bump your head or something, what does the word WEAK mean:

weak/wēk/Adjective
1. Lacking the power to perform physically demanding tasks; lacking physical strength and energy.

[Ajani]

Did you bump your head or something, what does the word WEAK mean:

weak/wēk/Adjective
1. Lacking the power to perform physically demanding tasks; lacking physical strength and energy.

EDIT: I've removed my comment here, as Recoveryone and I have taken our discussion offline and out of the OP's thread...

[Ajani]

OK here's the first combination, gotta start somewhere. I have it set up but won't listen until tonight. I will be using my trusty AKG K240S.

Squeezebox Touch
TeraDak Valab 8 x TDA1543
Bozak 919 (smokin headphone section)
AudioQuest King Cobra RCA
Tributaries Delta 75ohm Coax
AR Pro Series II PR920

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5340373770_8e346c1705_z.jpg

Any initial impressions?

[poppachubby]

OK, don't think me biased here, but we must stop the quarelling.

[poppachubby]

Any initial impressions?

I am just finished setting up and almost ready to sit and listen. I have put the DAC and pre in a different space than my HT system. It's tucked away so my kids won't mess with the sliders, and so we don't have to look at that big bulky Bozak.

I think I will start shopping around for a headphone amp if this set up goes the distance. I also want to know that it's not a passing fancy, but rather a regular method for me to listen. Here I thought I was all set up and now I need yet another piece of kit.

I think i will go with a Creek. The old OBH-11's sell for a song now on the used market. The OBH-21 is nice too. I have heard the OBH-11 and it's a nice unit. Should be able to net one for around $75 - $100 depending on condition.

I wish the Bozak wasn't such a huge beast, it truly has a remarkable headphone circuit. The other problem is that I have optimized PHONO2 for 62K loading of my Shure M97xe. I was thinking about starting to rip with it.

Anyhow I will be back to report, thanks for the interest.

http://www.ultraelectronicactive.com/Media/Equip/VintageAmplifiers/Creek-OBH-11-SE.jpg

http://www.audio-tuning-pithan.de/fotos_1/creek-obh-11_gr.jpg

http://www.avforums.com/forums/attachments/amplifier-receiver-classified-adverts/214945d1291922197-sale-creek-obh-21se-headphone-amp-dsc_0737.jpg

http://www.avforums.com/forums/attachments/amplifier-receiver-classified-adverts/214944d1291922152-sale-creek-obh-21se-headphone-amp-dsc_0740.jpg

[poppachubby]

Now for my original post was to have a laugh on how Poppy is enjoying this digital device, knowing that he is a old school vinyl listener and is have even more fun being able to view his collection.

You know what R1? Fun is the key word.

The other thing I experience, when seeing all of my digital albums tagged to my liking with their covers, is pride. I had to use a special program to work on tagging all of my files, so that everything appears in the Squeezebox the way I like it. Of course, I also had to ensure that all covers were included and tagged as well. I haven't ever felt pride about a digital device or source material.

The only thing I can liken it to is the pride I have about my LPs. They are all clean and stored correctly, with proper poly inners and outters. That's how I know the Squeezebox is different from anything else I have ever owned.

Now, for the part you DON"T want to hear. I am certainly not fanning any flames here but...

My DAC easily bested the internal Wolfson. Frankly, I was a bit surprised. In one way, it was a bit of a wake up call on just how coloured the tubed back end can be, and my HT pro for that matter. As I mentioned earlier, the K240S stayed true to form and reproduced everything with full transparency.

The comparison was rather cumbersome, physically speaking. I have no quick way to A/B between the two methods. However, the differences were VERY blatant and audible. "Differences" is putting it nicely, the Teradak simply mashed the Wolfson in every way imaginable.

I used a couple of really excellent recordings, ripped from disc 16/44.1 in FLAC with a compression factor of 1.

"Parker's Mood" is a trio of trumpet, piano and bass with no drums. Superb 2 mic, live studio staging which puts each player in a distinct position for the entire session. I also used "Virtuoso #2" which is a solo guitarist. I would say the Wolfson "kept up" in this regard of staging/imaging, but had much less seperation and space.

The shocking improvement, was overall immediacy. All 3 instruments had a much more lively sound with my DAC, and certainly retained more of their character. Basically, the Wolfson just sounded flat in comparison.

I don't want to go on and on, but clearly there was an improvement over the Squeezebox. This doesn;t mean that I'm done wit it,

Anyhow

[poppachubby]

Wow!!

Wow! Wow! Wow!

You know, my audio life is damn near perfect. The Bozak combo was sounding "good", but I just walked through a new door today.

I bought the RCA to male 1/8th yesterday, and today I hooked it up using my Electric Avenues PA2V2. So that's the SB > coax > Teradak > adaptor > PA2V2 > AKG K240S.

Firstly I want to say that I have never heard my K240's sound this good...ever. The difference from the Bozak set up was off the charts improved. I let out a huge "YES!" and my wife came into the room wondering what I was doing. Of course, some mandatory eye rolling followed.

Not only do my cans sound amazing but for the first time I am hearing just how amazing the PA2V2 really is. I now firmly believe that it's the best $100< headphone amp on the market, no question. The biggest improvement would have to be SNR and the resulting immediacy. I am in awe at how smooth everything became tonally, I know this is in part to the DAC as well.

Anyhow, I am excited that I now have a "poor mans" headphone set up without having to spend any cash. Of course, I am now super thrilled to start listening. It's like hearing my AKG's for the first time, they are a different set of cans entirely.

Life is good kids!!!

[Ajani]

Congrats! The only thing better than achieving good sound quality is doing it without spending much money...

I think every audiophile should have a cans based setup as either their primary or secondary system... Not only does it sound good, but you can experiment like crazy without breaking the bank...

[poppachubby]

Thanks for the interest Ajani. Nothing touches my main rig, but this comes damn close. This whole excercise reinforces my belief that the only certainty in this hobby is synergy. Either it works, or it doesn't. No amount of money, no fancy name brand can change this fact. Matching does not care about these things. So my $60 headphone amp has trumped my Bozak...expected? No.

Anyhow, I do not want what I haven't got. I have built an audio empire around the things I love, and it's paying back in spades. Vinyl in the front, digital in the back...perfect. The Squeezebox has changed my interest in digital from one of "who cares" to "right on!!"

I find listening to a vinyl rip on the SB very satisfying. And although it's not "the real deal", knowing that I created it helps to fill the void.

I will say it again, I love scrolling through my albums...just about as fun as it gets. Man I need a life.

[Ajani]

Thanks for the interest Ajani. Nothing touches my main rig, but this comes damn close. This whole excercise reinforces my belief that the only certainty in this hobby is synergy. Either it works, or it doesn't. No amount of money, no fancy name brand can change this fact. Matching does not care about these things. So my $60 headphone amp has trumped my Bozak...expected? No.

Anyhow, I do not want what I haven't got. I have built an audio empire around the things I love, and it's paying back in spades. Vinyl in the front, digital in the back...perfect. The Squeezebox has changed my interest in digital from one of "who cares" to "right on!!"

I find listening to a vinyl rip on the SB very satisfying. And although it's not "the real deal", knowing that I created it helps to fill the void.

I will say it again, I love scrolling through my albums...just about as fun as it gets. Man I need a life.

Yep, I wouldn't expect a media server to replace a vinyl system (well not yet anyway - give it time and maybe high res tracks will achieve that goal), but I think it makes a great alternative source...

I ditched my dedicated CD player shortly after I realized how much fun I had just playing music from my Mac Mini direct to my pre amp... Sure the CDP sounded a bit better and was clearly the 'audiophile' solution, but I was listening to so much more music with the Mac as source than I ever did with the CDP... Since then I've been all media server (Squeezebox, M-Audio USB Transit)...

[Mingus]

I also have the SB connected directly to my Yamaha HT receiver and it sounds pretty good however I am planning to add DAC to the path.

[poppachubby]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5081/5369646127_2b38429e79_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5122/5369645321_fa0c595190_z.jpg

[recoveryone]

Nice Pic's