I need a great hard drive for my music server...

[phileserver39]

Hey All,

So, which hard drive do I buy for the music server I am building? While were at it, is there a mobo out there which stands heads and shoulders above the others when it comes to audio?

Does choice of hardware even matter if I am using kernel streaming?

Thanks for your time and expertise,

JC

[Dawnrazor]

phile,

I am a big believer in the cics memory player concept. It specs specific mobos and hardware.

The latest hardware is a Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H with the Intel Core i3-530 and Kingston ValueRam DDR3-1333 @1GB. This hardware is selected for many reasons, but one major one is the underclocking and undervolting options, as well as the low volt operation of the cpu. Complete fanless operation is achievable with this combo, including the psu.

IMHO the hardware DOES matter!
Anyhow 2.5" sata drives are recommended for low power draw (use of a psu for the hdds is a must) and low noise. SSD is probably best but not for your wallet!

[Feanor]

Hey All,

So, which hard drive do I buy for the music server I am building? While were at it, is there a mobo out there which stands heads and shoulders above the others when it comes to audio?

Does choice of hardware even matter if I am using kernel streaming?

Thanks for your time and expertise,

JC
The beauty of computer-based audio is how TOTALLY CRAZY you can go in choosing your hardware and equipment. The number of components and the possible combinations and configurations is far beyond anything in analog or even conventional digital playback -- but great fun for a lot of people. In this regard, consult Dawnrazor for advice.

But never loose sight of the fact that if you deliver a bit-perfect, substantially jitter-free stream to you DAC, it doesn't matter a damn about your back-end hardware.

I won't offer a lot of specific advice; just a couple of things:

For bit perfect, on a WinXP machine, use kernel streaming; on a WinVista or Win7, use WASAPI. Or use ASIO if you downstream hardware supports it. Of course this means you must select a music player program that supports these protocols, e.g. Foobar2000, J.River Jukebox, or Media Monkey.
For jitter-free, IMO at present the best choice is with an asynchronous USB connection from your computer to your DAC. these connects are hardware-specific and require custom drivers on your computer. There are many opitions: a high but not absurdly priced option is the Ayre QB-9, (see HERE (http://www.ayre.com/9series.htm)) ...http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/1009ayre.3.jpg

For a relatively cheap connection to an existing DAC, an option is the M2TECH, (here (http://www.pacificvalve.us/M2TechHiFace.html)), USB to S/PDIF converter. Use this with either a very short (1 foot) or very long (30+ foot) S/PDIF cable to minimize added jitter ...
http://www.pacificvalve.us/sitebuilder/images/M2Tech_HiDFace_PC-270x257.jpg

[Dawnrazor]

.

But never loose sight of the fact that if you deliver a bit-perfect, substantially jitter-free stream to you DAC, it doesn't matter a damn about your back-end hardware.

I won't offer a lot of specific advice; just a couple of things:

For bit perfect, on a WinXP machine, use kernel streaming; on a WinVista or Win7, use WASAPI. Or use ASIO if you downstream hardware supports it. Of course this means you must select a music player program that supports these protocols, e.g. Foobar2000, J.River Jukebox, or Media Monkey.
For jitter-free, IMO at present the best choice is with an asynchronous USB connection from your computer to your DAC. these connects are hardware-specific and require custom drivers on your computer. There are many opitions: a high but not absurdly priced option is the Ayre QB-9, (see HERE (http://www.ayre.com/9series.htm)) ...http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/1009ayre.3.jpg



Yikes Bill.

I wish you hadn't posted this. I know I am crazy, but the bits is bits mentality (which it seems like you are espousing- correct me if I am wrong) just doesnt hold water in computer audio IME.

In theory you are right, but I think things are way too over simplified and jitter or some other factor takes over...jitter can come from all kind of computer things. Cics talks about some of the sources and different types on his site: http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.03Jitter

Anyhow one of the async dacs you cite is made by Charles Hansen of Ayre. One would think that an Async usb dac would be immune to anything going on in the computer....but check out this post that he wrote about the subject in stark contradiction to your comment. One would think that if you were remotely correct that the manufacturer of such a device that SHOULD be immune to the computer hardware would be singing in the streets about how the computer makes no difference because bits is bits and the dac is async....but he doesnt!!!!!

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=pcaudio&n=56599&highlight=ssd+charles+hansen&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dfilms%26s earchtext%3Djesse%2Bjames

[Feanor]

Yikes Bill.

I wish you hadn't posted this. I know I am crazy, but the bits is bits mentality (which it seems like you are espousing- correct me if I am wrong) just doesnt hold water in computer audio IME.

In theory you are right, but I think things are way too over simplified and jitter or some other factor takes over...jitter can come from all kind of computer things. Cics talks about some of the sources and different types on his site: http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.03Jitter

Anyhow one of the async dacs you cite is made by Charles Hansen of Ayre. One would think that an Async usb dac would be immune to anything going on in the computer....but check out this post that he wrote about the subject in stark contradiction to your comment. One would think that if you were remotely correct that the manufacturer of such a device that SHOULD be immune to the computer hardware would be singing in the streets about how the computer makes no difference because bits is bits and the dac is async....but he doesnt!!!!!

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=pcaudio&n=56599&highlight=ssd+charles+hansen&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dfilms%26s earchtext%3Djesse%2Bjames
Thanks for the link, DR. Peaple should know that Hansen is a respected designer of audio components, (especially amps), so his opinions are worthy of attention. In any case, I'm not saying the that Ayre DAC eliminates all possibility of jitter, only that it an example of the best approach to miniumize it; (I'm sure Charles Hansen would agree with that).

I'm one of those guys, though, who doesn't hear most of the sound differences that changing, say, a USB cable insinuate. Unlike some people, I'm not saying there aren't differences, only that I don't hear them.

If differences exist they are probably due to minute differences jitter. A perfect bit stream is demonsterably a perfect bit stream, but jitter, even in tiny amounts, will differ with equipment.

[Ajani]

I'm one of those guys, though, who doesn't hear most of the sound differences that changing, say, a USB cable insinuate. Unlike some people, I'm not saying there aren't differences, only that I don't hear them.

That has been my experience as well so far...


If differences exist they are probably due to minute differences jitter. A perfect bit stream is demonsterably a perfect bit stream, but jitter, even in tiny amounts, will differ with equipment.

I'd also add that the issue of jitter is also very much DAC dependent, as some DACs are extremely good at reducing/eliminating jitter, while others are very sensitive to it...

[phileserver39]

That has been my experience as well so far...



I'd also add that the issue of jitter is also very much DAC dependent, as some DACs are extremely good at reducing/eliminating jitter, while others are very sensitive to it...


Thank you all for your responses. This is what I am going to be doing:

1) Buy a PS Audio External Dac
2) Upgrade my computer (mostly because my current pc is a self build which is coming up on 1 1/2 years old)

I guess I don't understand the concept of jitter and clock correction well enough to understand what difference the internal guts of a pc would have on sound.

My plan is to pass the signal through the new guts of my new pc through my (currently owend) ASUS STX card's S/PDIF output to the PS Audio DAC's S/pDIF input.

Does using the Kernal Streaming option in Foobar take away any of the jitter errors?

[Feanor]

Thank you all for your responses. This is what I am going to be doing:

1) Buy a PS Audio External Dac
2) Upgrade my computer (mostly because my current pc is a self build which is coming up on 1 1/2 years old)

I guess I don't understand the concept of jitter and clock correction well enough to understand what difference the internal guts of a pc would have on sound.

My plan is to pass the signal through the new guts of my new pc through my (currently owend) ASUS STX card's S/PDIF output to the PS Audio DAC's S/pDIF input.

Does using the Kernal Streaming option in Foobar take away any of the jitter errors?
You should be OK with our plans, Phile.

Kernel Streaming is used with Windows XP. It's purpose is to by-pass certain components of Window's "audio stack", (suite of programs) and permit the player program to send a it-perfect data stream downstream, either to the compter's own DAC, S/PDIF or USB output as the case may be. But for Window Vista or Win7, (on your new computer, say), use WASAPI instead which kind of does the same thing for the newer OS's; see HERE (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi) for the Foobar2000 WASAPI component.

[phileserver39]

You should be OK with our plans, Phile.

Kernel Streaming is used with Windows XP. It's purpose is to by-pass certain components of Window's "audio stack", (suite of programs) and permit the player program to send a it-perfect data stream downstream, either to the compter's own DAC, S/PDIF or USB output as the case may be. But for Window Vista or Win7, (on your new computer, say), use WASAPI instead which kind of does the same thing for the newer OS's; see HERE (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi) for the Foobar2000 WASAPI component.

Thanks for the tip Feanor- but I am using Windows 7 and whenever I try to use WASAPI through foobar it gives me this error:

Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 16-bit / 2 channels

I get this type of error no matter what resolution I set in my ASUS card: 16/24, 44,48,96 or 192.

Could it be my buffer size (as it is easily adjustable). I have tried changing it a few time but maybe it is sensitive to a very specific range.

Thanks,

JC

[Feanor]

Thanks for the tip Feanor- but I am using Windows 7 and whenever I try to use WASAPI through foobar it gives me this error:

Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 16-bit / 2 channels

I get this type of error no matter what resolution I set in my ASUS card: 16/24, 44,48,96 or 192.

Could it be my buffer size (as it is easily adjustable). I have tried changing it a few time but maybe it is sensitive to a very specific range.

Thanks,

JC
Interesting; I don't know the answer. I doubt that it's the buffer size; more likely it is an incompatibility with the ASUS card. Check the Foobar and ASUS forums.

Does your ASUS card have an ASIO driver? If yes and it's installed, quite likely Foobar will recognize it and let you select under Playback > Output -- it would appear as an output option along with DS and WASAPI or Kernel Streaming if they're installed. If not, try Kernal Streaming which might work but I haven't tried it on my Vista machine

[phileserver39]

Interesting; I don't know the answer. I doubt that it's the buffer size; more likely it is an incompatibility with the ASUS card. Check the Foobar and ASUS forums.

Does your ASUS card have an ASIO driver? If yes and it's installed, quite likely Foobar will recognize it and let you select under Playback > Output -- it would appear as an output option along with DS and WASAPI or Kernel Streaming if they're installed. If not, try Kernal Streaming which might work but I haven't tried it on my Vista machine

KS wooks perfectly well- always has with the ASUS card. ASIO has never worked and I think I might have gotten the same error message as I have with WASAPI. It has been a while since I have messed with ASIO - actually might have been prior to installing WIN 7 on my music server rig. You have given me another variable to mess with tonight Feanor.

What is interesting is that the Audio Alchemy DAC I bought last weekend from Craiglist can recognize 16/44.1 using WASAPI (through the S/PIDF out of my ASUS card) just fine.

Hey, I can work with it (even though it gives me ANOTHER reason to start really disliking the ASUS card). I am swapping components like a sum***** tonight and having a good ole time. (Even though the little woman is trying to sleep- sorry Magil).

J

[Feanor]

KS wooks perfectly well- always has with the ASUS card. ASIO has never worked and I think I might have gotten the same error message as I have with WASAPI. It has been a while since I have messed with ASIO - actually might have been prior to installing WIN 7 on my music server rig. You have given me another variable to mess with tonight Feanor.

What is interesting is that the Audio Alchemy DAC I bought last weekend from Craiglist can recognize 16/44.1 using WASAPI (through the S/PIDF out of my ASUS card) just fine.

Hey, I can work with it (even though it gives me ANOTHER reason to start really disliking the ASUS card). I am swapping components like a sum***** tonight and having a good ole time. (Even though the little woman is trying to sleep- sorry Magil).

J
Humm ... very interesting: WASAPI works through the ASUS S/PDIF, but not with the ASUS DAC.

But these things tend to be a matter of trial and error. I have an M-Audio sound card on my WinXP machine, whose S/PDIF output I use to feed my good ol' Assemblage DAC. The M-Audio has an ASIO driver which works -- sort of -- but I get occassional "burps" during playback. The "burps" pretty much went away when I used Kernel Streaming instead. I believe I'm getting bit perfect transmission to the DAC because the Assembage's HDCD indicator lights when the recording is so encoded: this is not usually the case when I use Direct Sound.

Incidentally, in case there was any doubt, lossless formats, at least FLAC. ALAC, and APE, all retain the HDCD encoding and deliver it during playback.

[phileserver39]

Humm ... very interesting: WASAPI works through the ASUS S/PDIF, but not with the ASUS DAC.

But these things tend to be a matter of trial and error. I have an M-Audio sound card on my WinXP machine, whose S/PDIF output I use to feed my good ol' Assemblage DAC. The M-Audio has an ASIO driver which works -- sort of -- but I get occassional "burps" during playback. The "burps" pretty much went away when I used Kernel Streaming instead. I believe I'm getting bit perfect transmission to the DAC because the Assembage's HDCD indicator lights when the recording is so encoded: this is not usually the case when I use Direct Sound.

Incidentally, in case there was any doubt, lossless formats, at least FLAC. ALAC, and APE, all retain the HDCD encoding and deliver it during playback.

Thanks for the info, especially since I wasn't sure that the lossless formats delivered the HDCD encoding.