Questions about CDR's

[JohnMichael]

Well I bought some cdr's for my Sony cd changer/recorder and it turns out they only work with my computer to burn cds. The cd's I purchased had data information on the package so I tried one with my computer. I downloaded the cd to the computer and then burnt a copy. Tonight at Staples I found cdr music cd's that worked in the Sony recorder. I recorded Wicked with the computer and then made a 1 to 1 recording of Wicked with the Sony. The version made with the Sony recorder blew away the one made with the computer.

I am not a computer whiz and have done nothing to the stock computer but I wonder what made the difference in the recording. Is it the copy speed or something else I am missing? The difference is audible and the recording made with the Sony recorder had more output and dynamics. Okay the computer version sounded like compressed files. Help me oh wise ones and thanks.

[Hyfi]

Could be several things. First, there is a thing called +R and -R. Some recorders only work with one or the other while some will burn with both.

There will be an argument as to whether one sounded better than the other since it is supposed to be a 1 to 1 duplicate of 1s and 0s. My thought is like you suggested, speed along with proper spinning of the disk. if it is wobbling while recording, the burned pits may not be the proper depth all the way around the disk.

But then you would think if the first copy was bad, how did it create a better copy?

Points to ponder.........

[poppachubby]

My guess is that the Sony has an analog, 2 channel source to copy from, whereas the computer is strictly copying 1s and 0s. The Sony can now affect things like presentation, channel seperation and other qualities that will affect the final copy. Sounds like that Sony is a good little machine. I should try inputting a CDP into my soundcard and rip a CD that way. Yes I think I will try John and tell you the results.

[JohnMichael]

My guess is that the Sony has an analog, 2 channel source to copy from, whereas the computer is strictly copying 1s and 0s. The Sony can now affect things like presentation, channel seperation and other qualities that will affect the final copy. Sounds like that Sony is a good little machine. I should try inputting a CDP into my soundcard and rip a CD that way. Yes I think I will try John and tell you the results.



The Sony is a stand alone changer recorder. You place the original cd you are wanting to copy and a blank cd in the drawer on the left of the Sony. You then press synchro record at your choice of copy speeds. I copy at normal speed so it takes as long as it does to play the disc. The other cd I made was by downloading the original cd and then burning the copy which of course was quicker. The sound quality suffered.

I had trouble finding cdr's compatible with the Sony and what I purchased would only work in the computer. I did find the cdr music cd's that work in the Sony so I can burn vinyl to cd again. My cd player is not connected to my computer.


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[poppachubby]

Oh I see, I thought you were inputting the Marantz into the Sony. I have no answers in this case. My local surplus shop has some archiving CDRs in. They are normally VERY expensive but they are selling a pack of 3 for only $2.50. They use 24k gold and are rated for 300 years life expectancy. Great for storing pics if you back up to CDR. For pics though SD is the best for long term storage. Would you like to try a pack?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CnfEDIlUL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[rakeford]

Well I bought some cdr's for my Sony cd changer/recorder and it turns out they only work with my computer to burn cds. The cd's I purchased had data information on the package so I tried one with my computer. I downloaded the cd to the computer and then burnt a copy. Tonight at Staples I found cdr music cd's that worked in the Sony recorder. I recorded Wicked with the computer and then made a 1 to 1 recording of Wicked with the Sony. The version made with the Sony recorder blew away the one made with the computer.

I am not a computer whiz and have done nothing to the stock computer but I wonder what made the difference in the recording. Is it the copy speed or something else I am missing? The difference is audible and the recording made with the Sony recorder had more output and dynamics. Okay the computer version sounded like compressed files. Help me oh wise ones and thanks.
This might help you understand

The Differences Between Music CD-R and Data CD-R Discs (http://www.kristofcreative.com/learning/production/audio/music-cdr-and-data-cdr.shtml)

[JohnMichael]

I should have mentioned that after I made the copies with the computer and recorder I played them both in the Marantz SA 8001. I was so surprised by the difference in sound quality. Both copies were made on Sony blank discs one was Sony Cdr Music and the other was a Sony CDR 80 min. 700 MB/Mo, 1-48x. Only the Sony music would work in the Sony recorder. I am going back tonight to buy up the discs in stock.

Having space in the rack for the recorder will make it easier to make the copies I want. Before I would drag it out of storage make a disc and then put it away.

[Feanor]

This might help you understand

The Differences Between Music CD-R and Data CD-R Discs (http://www.kristofcreative.com/learning/production/audio/music-cdr-and-data-cdr.shtml)
But aren't you presuming that JM made a data CD on the computer? In which case one wonders whether his CD player would play it at all? If in fact he made an audio (a.k.a. music) CD on his computer, then the question still remains.

Many audio CD-producing programs have a "Verify" (or similarly named) option that will test the resulting disc for the 1&0's. If the Verfy yields on 'no errors' then the 1&0's are correct and the problem lies elsewhere. Possibly is the computer is caused lots of "jitter" that is distorting the sound; a slower burn speed might help.

[Dawnrazor]

Okay the computer version sounded like compressed files. Help me oh wise ones and thanks.

When you ripped the files to the computer what program did you use, and was it set for UNCOMPRESSED or LOSSLESS ripping? Most have an mp3 default and if that happened then you are right, they were compressed.

FWIW I was able to make disks that usually sounded better than the originals, but it did take some work.

[02audionoob]

It's my understanding the difference between the two types of discs is primarily that the music CD-R has had its music royalty paid, like that paid on blank tape.

I too have a standalone recorder and have even recorded analog signals on it. The recorder is a Pioneer and will record synchronized real-time from the digital output of my Pioneer CD player. It has been my experience that the Pioneer recorder makes slightly better-sounding CDs than my computer, even when I simply copy the music CD directly to a CD-R without ripping.

[rakeford]

But aren't you presuming that JM made a data CD on the computer? In which case one wonders whether his CD player would play it at all? If in fact he made an audio (a.k.a. music) CD on his computer, then the question still remains.

Many audio CD-producing programs have a "Verify" (or similarly named) option that will test the resulting disc for the 1&0's. If the Verfy yields on 'no errors' then the 1&0's are correct and the problem lies elsewhere. Possibly is the computer is caused lots of "jitter" that is distorting the sound; a slower burn speed might help.
I'm not presuming anything. I just offer a website that might help the OP understand the difference between Music CD-R and Data CD-R.

02audionoob stated it more simply, "the difference between the two types of discs is primarily that the music CD-R has had its music royalty paid, like that paid on blank tape."

Here's a wiki quote (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R).

"Initially in the United States (http://forums.audioreview.com/wiki/United_States), there was a market separation between "music" CD-Rs and "data" CD-Rs, the former being several times more expensive than the latter due to industry copyright (http://forums.audioreview.com/wiki/Copyright) arrangements with the RIAA (http://forums.audioreview.com/wiki/RIAA).<SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference>[2] (http://forums.audioreview.com/#cite_note-1)</SUP> Physically, there is no difference between the discs save for the Disc Application Flag that identifies their type: standalone audio recorders will only accept "music" CD-Rs to enforce the RIAA arrangement, while computer CD-R drives can use either type of media to burn either type of content.<SUP id=cite_ref-2 class=reference>[3] (http://forums.audioreview.com/#cite_note-2)</SUP>"

That's why the Data CD-R won't work in JohnMichael's Sony cd changer/recorder.

And that's why you can copy an audio CD onto a Data CD-R in a computer.

[JohnMichael]

When you ripped the files to the computer what program did you use, and was it set for UNCOMPRESSED or LOSSLESS ripping? Most have an mp3 default and if that happened then you are right, they were compressed.

FWIW I was able to make disks that usually sounded better than the originals, but it did take some work.


Thanks, that must be why it sounded so bad. I must have been in mp3 default. I took the CDR data discs back and went and purchased more CDR Music discs. I was worried that the Sony would only be useable as a changer if I could not buy the proper discs to make recordings.

[02audionoob]

One important thing to remember is that last comment rakeford made:

"you can copy an audio CD onto a Data CD-R in a computer"

You don't have to rip or otherwise convert in any form to use a computer, CD drive and CD burning software to make a complete copy of a music CD onto a data CD-R. You need music CD-R discs on the standalone recorder but not on a computer.

On the computer it is not necessary to download the music CD to the computer, although the burning software will temporarily store an image of the CD on the computer's hard drive during the burning process. The software will read the original disc for a few minutes and make the temporary image. Then it will write the image to the data CD-R. The data CD-R will then be playable in almost all CD and DVD players, not just computers. The sound qualty should be almost identical.

[rakeford]

One important thing to remember is that last comment rakeford made:

"you can copy an audio CD onto a Data CD-R in a computer"

You don't have to rip or otherwise convert in any form to use a computer, CD drive and CD burning software to make a complete copy of a music CD onto a data CD-R. You need music CD-R discs on the standalone recorder but not on a computer.

On the computer it is not necessary to download the music CD to the computer, although the burning software will temporarily store an image of the CD on the computer's hard drive during the burning process. The software will read the original disc for a few minutes and make the temporary image. Then it will write the image to the data CD-R. The data CD-R will then be playable in almost all CD and DVD players, not just computers. The sound qualty should be almost identical.
Yes, that is right. I've made about 100 CDs this way. I always use a Data CD-R. As I understand it, there is no advantage to using a Music CD-R in a computer. Most of the copies sound very good and play in any player I throw at them. I've had 1 or 2 that did not work in some of the players, but this is the exception. Perhaps more important is the quality of the Data CD-R. I hear that low burn rate CD-Rs may hold up better in the "hot car" environment.

I've never done a side by side comparision between the orginal "shrink-wrap-music-CD" and the copy on the Data CD-R. I've just asumed they sound the same. Now I may have to try some experiments to see if I can hear any differences.

[JohnMichael]

I do not have much computer knowledge bit I do know the disc copied in the computer did not sound as good as the disc made in the Sony recorder. I keep a number of copies in the car and they have held up nicely.

[02audionoob]

What software did you use to make the computer copies?

[JohnMichael]

What software did you use to make the computer copies?


Just what came with the computer. It is an HP with Windows 7. I will not be bothering with it again unless I decide to start downloading.