Boardwalk Empire...

[Worf101]

Started slow but wow!!!! This weekends episode was amazing. Just simply amazing. Catch it on DVD when it's released.

Worf.

[dean_martin]

Yeah, I've been keeping up. The first episode wasn't much to me beyond the sets and wardrobe, but it definitely pulled me in. That damn revenuer is . . . well, I'm not sure how to describe him. Michael Shannon is awesome.

[thekid]

I have been following it from the beginning and have enjoyed it. Of course after seeing it I had to look up the real "Nucky" Thompson who the series is based around. Seems they are weaving various characters and some facts inot a more coherent narrative than actually existed but what the heck it is entertaining.

[Worf101]

Agent Van Alden (sp) is one of the finest characters to come along in many a decade. Right up there with Omar, Brother Muzon, Pauly Walnuts, Swearengen etc... The last episode was so riveting so surprizing that it had puddin' screaming in shock!!!. I was baptized, I've been to revivials and riverside baptizmals. That scene will haunt me for some time. The look on the parishoner's faces???? Priceless!!!!

Worf

[Woochifer]

I agree. The first episode showed a lot of promise, then the subsequent episodes lost some momentum. But, all of the plot threads that the writers have been danging around all season have finally come around. It was slow at times, but they've nicely set up a lot of things for the finale and for next season. Seeing that whole angle with Jimmy and his parents (yeesh!) was an interesting twist.

I'd been griping that Agent Van Alden was underutilized all season, but his character really made up for a lot of lost time. Just an intense, flawed, and fascinating character. A bit of a caricature and I hope the writers don't push things over the edge and turn him into a cartoon character.

I have yet to see the season finale, but this season seemed to play out like the typical arc for the Sopranos, where things building up all season come to a head in the second to last episode.

The historical record with Rothstein, Lansky, Luciano, Capone, and Torrio is interesting because all of them become more corporate gangsters.

[Woochifer]

Wow, we're done with Season Two and not a single mention of this series all year! I guess quite a few people gave up on Boardwalk Empire. Not surprisingly, the ratings took a huge tumble after the much hyped series premiere directed by Martin Scorsese posted big numbers, and kept trending downward for much of the year. This year, the series managed to add viewers as the season progressed, but only because it started from a lower base of regular viewers.

As with the first season, the first half of this season plodded along without much direction. If anything, there were too many plot threads going all at the same time, many of which led to dead ends (e.g., Margaret seeking out her family in NYC, Harrow's interactions with Angela, etc.). The acting and a select few storylines were just enough to keep my interest going.

And again, the series picked up considerable steam towards the end of the season.

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!

The second-to-last episode featuring the Jimmy/Angela/Gillian backstory was one of the best ones of the series so far, particularly since that episode got inserted after we already saw Horvitz kill Angela. Even though they telegraphed it earlier in the season, the incest angle with Gillian tied a lot of Jimmy's backstory together -- still a bit of a shock though. His killing the Commodore also tied things up neatly (perhaps "too" neatly, which of course leads to the events of the season finale).

The season finale was brilliant, particularly with the Godfatheresque montage juxtaposing Prosecutor Randolph's opening monologue, with Nucky's shotgun marriage to Margaret. I will say that Jimmy's death was not all that surprising, since the writers did everything short of announcing it with the blitz of loose ends they rapidly tied together with Jimmy's storyline.

What made Jimmy's death compelling was Nucky actually pulling the trigger. Jimmy said that you can't be half a gangster, and now Nucky has gone all in to the dark side. Even though it was predictable, I will give the writers lots of credit for daring to kill off a major character after only two seasons (thinking back to the major characters killed on The Sopranos, most of that happened much later in the series).

Great climax to the season, but I'm not sure where they go from here. They've now killed Jimmy, but there's no one else that can play the heavy next to Nucky. The recurring characters that were introduced this season didn't do much for me. Sleater and Randolph haven't really developed that much.

And the writers continue to disappoint with Van Alden. Bringing in Randolph basically neutered his character, and the whole baby daddy plot with Lucy was lame. I thought that Van Alden would be Nucky's nemesis. He thought so too, but that angle never developed very well. Now, you got Van Alden on the run and settling down in Cicero (not coincidentally, this is Al Capone's future headquarters). I would hope that next season, the writers actually do something with that great character they created.

So, with Nucky now in full gangster mode, and the feds completely confounded, what now? Killing off a major character is a bold move, but it also paints the writers into a corner. I'm not sure where things go from here. Like I said, the end of Season 2 was great, but the writers have now shot a lot of their silver bullets. Not sure what they'll have left for Season 3.

[dean_martin]

I'm late responding, but I did stick with it this season. Last two episodes were very strong. I didn't want to see Jimmy get whacked. Didn't need to see Oedipus play out. Thought it was better as understood/boiling under the surface, but I guess showing it makes sense if you're (the writers are) going to kill him.

Van Alden's strange baptismal service from one of the best episodes in season one turned out to be Nucky's trump/get-out-of-jail-free card. Now, as you asked, Wooch, whatta they do wit Van Alden?

Over the second season, I think Buscemi really stepped it up with his character. Wait 'til he finds out what Margaret did with that land.

[Woochifer]

I'm late responding, but I did stick with it this season. Last two episodes were very strong. I didn't want to see Jimmy get whacked. Didn't need to see Oedipus play out. Thought it was better as understood/boiling under the surface, but I guess showing it makes sense if you're (the writers are) going to kill him.

Yeah, they telegraphed that angle, but Gretchen Mol is easy on the eyes, regardless of how wacko her character is!


Van Alden's strange baptismal service from one of the best episodes in season one turned out to be Nucky's trump/get-out-of-jail-free card. Now, as you asked, Wooch, whatta they do wit Van Alden?

I don't think it coincidental that the writers stuck Van Alden in Cicero. There's bound to be some kind of plotline that has Van Alden crossing paths with Capone. It won't end well for the former agent, if that's the case, since we already know that Capone still has a lot of years as a mob boss ahead.

Van Alden is one of, if not the most, interesting characters on the show. I don't even mind that he's somewhat cartoonish, I just want the writers to do something with him. But, Van Alden was basically wasted this season.


Over the second season, I think Buscemi really stepped it up with his character. Wait 'til he finds out what Margaret did with that land.

Buscemi seemed to be resting on his laurels the first season, but yeah, he definitely stepped things up this season. We'll see how things play out with Nucky now in full on gangster mode, and still having to make deals with lots of devils.

With all these gangster characters, Rothstein IMO is the guy that steals every scene. He's always even keeled, but you get the sense that nobody messes with him. That line about flipping a coin was brilliant ("Flip a coin. When it's in the air, you'll know what side you're hoping for.).

The storylines with Margaret were among the least interesting. For one thing, I don't get what motivates her anymore. Even the land donation to the church seemed a bit of a stretch.

Don't know who's going to pick up the slack, because I don't think this series will work if it becomes all about Nucky. All of the dealings with the gangsters present a lot of potential plot threads, but none of them live in Atlantic City, so that negates a lot of dramatic possibilities. Should be interesting. I'll see where they go, but if the writers don't come up with something compelling, I think viewers will start tuning out in droves.

Unlike some of HBO's other series, Boardwalk Empire has not yet banked a lot of goodwill with the viewers.

[Worf101]

I enjoyed Season 2 immensely. I liked the further development of the characters. Like you I was sad to see Knucky cross that line. I also liked learning Dhormerty's backstory. For the life of me why Knuck chose Manny the Butcher over the kid I'll never know. It'll be interesting to see what Mask Man does now that Jimmy's gone. Van Alden is a hoot. I NEVER expected him to go Jason Bourne and them skip country. You're right though. His only option left is to go into organized crime. Why the hell not, he was robbin' and killin' like the rest of em. I already knew that Cicero is Capone's later headquarters but the Agent, even in the pre-internet days, has to know that the Feds are gonna keep comin' after him.

The Collen is truly niave if she thinks Knucky wouldn't kill a priest or HER for that matter to get what he believes is his. She truly does NOT who or what she's dealing with... A british friend of mine on another board asked me if BWE was an "American Production". He felt that the story, acting, sets and detail were too good to have come from this side of the pond. He obviously has no idea how much we lover a mobster saga. Not as good as
"The Wire"[ or "The Soprano's" but not too shabby either.

Worf/

[dean_martin]

Margaret's motivation has moved from survival for her and her kids to making amends for her mistakes that led (in her mind) to her daughter's polio. It's God's punishment. I thought she was more rational than that. (Although I didn't care much for the polio/priest story, it seemed to resonate with my wife. The show must be targeting more than guys who like mob stories.) I still think she ends up having Nucky's back as she has in the past - depending of course on the writers' choice of punishment from Nucky for blowin' his big land deal.

[Woochifer]

I enjoyed Season 2 immensely. I liked the further development of the characters. Like you I was sad to see Knucky cross that line. I also liked learning Dhormerty's backstory. For the life of me why Knuck chose Manny the Butcher over the kid I'll never know. It'll be interesting to see what Mask Man does now that Jimmy's gone. Van Alden is a hoot. I NEVER expected him to go Jason Bourne and them skip country. You're right though. His only option left is to go into organized crime. Why the hell not, he was robbin' and killin' like the rest of em. I already knew that Cicero is Capone's later headquarters but the Agent, even in the pre-internet days, has to know that the Feds are gonna keep comin' after him.

On that final episode, I know they wanted to make Jimmy's death dramatic by having him spend the entire episode basically preparing for his own death (e.g., giving his son the dogtags, calling Nucky over to his house, having Harrow not come with him to the meeting) and then coming to the meeting unarmed. That was the only way they could have the climactic moment with the father figure (Nucky) fully embracing his dark side by murdering his surrogate son.

However, I totally agree with you that the angle with Manny Horvitz is just not convincing. Not only with Nucky choosing Manny over Jimmy, but also with Jimmy coming to a supposed confrontation with the guy who murdered his wife unarmed. Yeah, I know. Jimmy probably expected that the meeting was an ambush, but still I would think that Jimmy's thoughts would go something like "I might be a dead man, but I'm gonna make sure that we both have an appointment with the devil tonight!"


The Collen is truly niave if she thinks Knucky wouldn't kill a priest or HER for that matter to get what he believes is his. She truly does NOT who or what she's dealing with... A british friend of mine on another board asked me if BWE was an "American Production". He felt that the story, acting, sets and detail were too good to have come from this side of the pond. He obviously has no idea how much we lover a mobster saga. Not as good as
"The Wire"[ or "The Soprano's" but not too shabby either.

Worf/

That quote about the "American Production" is funny. I don't know about you, but the sets and general production values for quite a few British TV shows I've seen over the years don't exactly look like they were financed using the royal bank account! In a way, Boardwalk Empire did somewhat feel like a BBC drama in how deliberate the plot pacing seemed at the beginning of the season. But, the last few episodes were more Godfatheresque than anything.

[Woochifer]

Margaret's motivation has moved from survival for her and her kids to making amends for her mistakes that led (in her mind) to her daughter's polio. It's God's punishment. I thought she was more rational than that. (Although I didn't care much for the polio/priest story, it seemed to resonate with my wife. The show must be targeting more than guys who like mob stories.) I still think she ends up having Nucky's back as she has in the past - depending of course on the writers' choice of punishment from Nucky for blowin' his big land deal.

Ooops, late in responding! :cool:

Even with the polio and making amends angle, I still don't get what's driving Margaret. Yes, she's giving away Nucky's land, but she still stays with him and lives off of his blood money. The whole Nucky/Margaret storyline just isn't credible IMO.

I read that next season will jump ahead a couple of years, with Prohibition, the bootleggers, and the gang wars in full bloom. Presumably we will find out the status of Margaret and Nucky, and reset the mobsters' backstory with guys like Capone, Lansky, and Luciano continuing to gain power.

We'll see if HBO chooses to take the series to the end of prohibition. Lot of territory left to cover with just the historical record for guys like Torrio, Rothstein, and Capone. The book that the series is loosely based on apparently chronicles Atlantic City's history all the way through the modern casino era, but the real life Enoch Johnson's influence apparently ended with prohibition.