Taking your stereo in a new direction???

[Ajani]

If you were to take the road not traveled, what would it be? So, if you were to rebuild your setup from scratch, using totally different technology (not just brands), what would you pick?

For example: if you have a plannar setup with high powered SS monoblocks and a turntable, then perhaps a switch to horns and a SET amp...

Changing from a 300 watt Musical Fidelity SS amp to a 300 watt Krell doesn't count...

Right now my system contains a 300 watt amp with 3 way speakers and a digital source... However, I'd love to try out some high efficiency, single driver speakers with a SET amp (and maybe even a turntable)...

[poppachubby]

If I could start over, I would ideally have an integration between my HT and 2 channel. No compromises either.

[RoyY51]

I'm going to second Poppa's wish...to have a great-sounding stereo rig and a great-sounding HT rig, all with the same components.

[Ajani]

Gentlemen, that's very interesting... BUT, no more cowardice!!!! What's your second choice for stereo??? Not HT, as HT might just mean buying more of the same products in 5.1 or 7.1, rather than 2.0!

[Mr Peabody]

I've been fortunate enough to have had solid state and tubes, not that many ways to go. For 2-channel I would like to stay with tubes and have electrostat speakers.

It's funny how we always see the grass as greener..... If I had to do it all over and had the money at once I think I'd actually like to have a high end preamp processor and only one system for everything. The major draw back is the constant change in HT technology and the other draw back I don't think there are that many processors I'd be happy with for music and the one's I would be happy with probably cost a fortune.

[YBArcam]

I think I've probably heard enough of the usual by now (by the usual I mean solid state amps with 2-way narrow baffle speakers). Though there is plenty of variation within that group and for sure I'd love to hear some more (like a properly set up Naim system, for example - I heard one once, but not long enough to form a real impression). LFD is another line of amps I want to hear. Totem speakers too.

But I can live without that, I think. What I'm really eager to try out next are tubes and electrostatic speakers. Next year I'm going to check out a pair of Martin Logans, since my dealer just added the line. And perhaps a Prima Luna tube amp. By the way, I'm not implying that tubes can power ML speakers sufficiently. Perhaps they cannot. I'm not looking to buy any time soon. Maybe in five years time. But it's definitely time to hear what all the fuss is about. Actually, if there is one tube amp that's really caught my eye it's the Audio Research VSi60.

http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/pics/201006_arc_front.jpg

[Ajani]

I've been fortunate enough to have had solid state and tubes, not that many ways to go. For 2-channel I would like to stay with tubes and have electrostat speakers.

It's funny how we always see the grass as greener..... If I had to do it all over and had the money at once I think I'd actually like to have a high end preamp processor and only one system for everything. The major draw back is the constant change in HT technology and the other draw back I don't think there are that many processors I'd be happy with for music and the one's I would be happy with probably cost a fortune.

Tubes and Stats sounds like a sweet combo...

Processors are a challenge as tech changes, but a lot more of the modern ones are designed to be "future proof" with upgradeable software over the internet and modular circuit boards... So if you found a really good (probably expensive) one you might be able to keep it for many years despite the advances in HT formats...

Personally, I have no interest in HT whatsoever... My first setup was HT and I quickly lost interest in the HT part and just used it for stereo... I can't even remember the last time I watched a DVD, let alone buy one...

[blackraven]

All tube gear, probably Conrad Johnson and Salk HTR-3 speakers. Or maybe a vintage McIntosh to fulfill my dream when I was in college of an all MC system

[Happy Camper]

I am currently in the building stage of a computer based headphone rig. My last evolution involved moving from a M&K sub/sat, NAD cdp & receiver to a 7.1 HT rig of stats/sub ten years ago. Now I am looking for a compromise for headphone listening. After a few years of meets, I may have found my goal.

There are new headphones popping up regularly claiming "Best". The HD 800, Beyer T-1, GS-1000&PS1000. There's even talk of AKG presenting a K1000 replacement. But there is a buzz about two offerings from China with similar design and different presentation. The Ortho design is based around the planar magnetic principles of the Maggies. One is the Audeze LCD-2 and the other is the HiFiMan HE-6. Both offer the positives of stat's performance with the fullness of a dynamic. The LCD-2 can be driven with your common desktop amp while the HE-6 has been driven best with a 50-80 watt speaker amp.

I have had the fortune of having both the LCD-2 and the latest rendition of Audio GD's Reference 7 DAC in the house for the last 4 days of a two week audition. I am finally reaching a point of decision on the headphone. I want to hear the HE-6 before making a choice. General consensus is the LCD-2 is more of a Sennheiser sound and the HE-6 more of an AKG sound. I love the sound of the HD-800 but the LCD-2 has more body and a more speaker like bass.

I am running foobar set at 24/96k>M2Tech HiFace USB to S/PDIF adapter>WW silver coax>A gd Reference 7 DAC>Red Dawn SPC ICs>SP Platinum+ amp>LCD-2 (house cans are K701 & RS-1)

I am in the midst of re-calibrating my reference of possibilities. This sounds as good as the ML rig with the advantages that headphones offer. Once the headphone is found, a current design DAC to replace a 15 yr old CAL unit and I'm ready for the grave (except for new technology video/source material) Current DAC interest is the Audio GD Ref. 7, PSA Perfectwave and Lavry DA11 and the 840C (I'm hoping the Azur line releases the 840 as a dac only no transport).

[pixelthis]

If I could start over, I would ideally have an integration between my HT and 2 channel. No compromises either.

THERE will always be compromises in this setup. But for those of us with limited funds
its the only livable solution, most times. Works for me, anyway, and thats what matters.:1:

[pixelthis]

Gentlemen, that's very interesting... BUT, no more cowardice!!!! What's your second choice for stereo??? Not HT, as HT might just mean buying more of the same products in 5.1 or 7.1, rather than 2.0!

THERE is no "second" choice for stereo, there is a best way to listen to audio, and its not
a question of "cowardice".
THE TECH has been worked out long ago, and if you want to spend your coin on kooky
RUBE goldberg stuff like electrostats or SET amps that were obsolete about the time
Elvis made his first appearance, more power to you. I see no point in entertaining such notions, as I WOULD NEVER WASTE MONEY on such nonsense, even if I had any.
It is fun to gander at mega buck under performing systems whose only function
is sucking money outta your pocket like a Kirby vaccume cleaner, tho.
THE capacity of self delusion that exists in humans never ceases to amaze.:1:

[02audionoob]

I think I've probably heard enough of the usual by now (by the usual I mean solid state amps with 2-way narrow baffle speakers). Though there is plenty of variation within that group and for sure I'd love to hear some more (like a properly set up Naim system, for example - I heard one once, but not long enough to form a real impression). LFD is another line of amps I want to hear. Totem speakers too.

But I can live without that, I think. What I'm really eager to try out next are tubes and electrostatic speakers. Next year I'm going to check out a pair of Martin Logans, since my dealer just added the line. And perhaps a Prima Luna tube amp. By the way, I'm not implying that tubes can power ML speakers sufficiently. Perhaps they cannot. I'm not looking to buy any time soon. Maybe in five years time. But it's definitely time to hear what all the fuss is about. Actually, if there is one tube amp that's really caught my eye it's the Audio Research VSi60.

http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/pics/201006_arc_front.jpg

I've never thought much about ML speakers, but the efficiency rating on a pair I just looked up was 90 dB. Surely a VSi60 would have no problem there. That's more efficient than the speakers I see paired with that amp at the local dealer here and it sounds pretty well powered to me.

But on the top of taking my system in a new direction...I'd like to try a Krell amp and preamp and maybe a Musical Fidelity or Arcam CD player or my plan B...a McIntosh integrated and McIntosh music server with some big B&W towers.

[Ajani]

THERE is no "second" choice for stereo, there is a best way to listen to audio, and its not
a question of "cowardice".
THE TECH has been worked out long ago, and if you want to spend your coin on kooky
RUBE goldberg stuff like electrostats or SET amps that were obsolete about the time
Elvis made his first appearance, more power to you. I see no point in entertaining such notions, as I WOULD NEVER WASTE MONEY on such nonsense, even if I had any.
It is fun to gander at mega buck under performing systems whose only function
is sucking money outta your pocket like a Kirby vaccume cleaner, tho.
THE capacity of self delusion that exists in humans never ceases to amaze.:1:

"cowardice" was really a joke to stimulate them to give a non "safe" response...

Anyway, it's good to see time hasn't made you soft... Still on that hard-line stance about which technology is superior...

For me, the hobby is just that: "a hobby", so whether a tech is superior, inferior, obsolete, whatever, doesn't matter as long as it is fun...

[Ajani]

I am currently in the building stage of a computer based headphone rig. My last evolution involved moving from a M&K sub/sat, NAD cdp & receiver to a 7.1 HT rig of stats/sub ten years ago. Now I am looking for a compromise for headphone listening. After a few years of meets, I may have found my goal.

There are new headphones popping up regularly claiming "Best". The HD 800, Beyer T-1, GS-1000&PS1000. There's even talk of AKG presenting a K1000 replacement. But there is a buzz about two offerings from China with similar design and different presentation. The Ortho design is based around the planar magnetic principles of the Maggies. One is the Audeze LCD-2 and the other is the HiFiMan HE-6. Both offer the positives of stat's performance with the fullness of a dynamic. The LCD-2 can be driven with your common desktop amp while the HE-6 has been driven best with a 50-80 watt speaker amp.

I have had the fortune of having both the LCD-2 and the latest rendition of Audio GD's Reference 7 DAC in the house for the last 4 days of a two week audition. I am finally reaching a point of decision on the headphone. I want to hear the HE-6 before making a choice. General consensus is the LCD-2 is more of a Sennheiser sound and the HE-6 more of an AKG sound. I love the sound of the HD-800 but the LCD-2 has more body and a more speaker like bass.

I am running foobar set at 24/96k>M2Tech HiFace USB to S/PDIF adapter>WW silver coax>A gd Reference 7 DAC>Red Dawn SPC ICs>SP Platinum+ amp>LCD-2 (house cans are K701 & RS-1)

I am in the midst of re-calibrating my reference of possibilities. This sounds as good as the ML rig with the advantages that headphones offer. Once the headphone is found, a current design DAC to replace a 15 yr old CAL unit and I'm ready for the grave (except for new technology video/source material) Current DAC interest is the Audio GD Ref. 7, PSA Perfectwave and Lavry DA11 and the 840C (I'm hoping the Azur line releases the 840 as a dac only no transport).

Very Nice!!! I have my eye on a LCD-2 as a potential upgrade from my K701s.. How do you find that they compare?

[E-Stat]

THE capacity of self delusion that exists in humans never ceases to amaze.
I most certainly concur!

rw

[SlumpBuster]

My response should confuse the hell out of you Pixel because it is cheap and not esoteric (which you should like) but involves obsolete technology (which you do not like).

I'd like a vintage party system like the ones I saw and could not afford in high school and college. I'm talking like pair of Infinity SM155
http://www.audiocostruzioni.com/r_s/diffusori/infinity-sm155/infinity%20sm%20152.jpg

With Carver Amplification
http://www.lehigh.edu/~evb209/projects/carver3/01.jpg

with an Akai
http://www.magnatmuseum.nl/Cliparts/HiFi%20Museum/Akai/Akai%20GX-F71.jpg

and a Technics
http://journal.commonfolkcollective.com/uploaded_images/technics1200-790281.jpg

front end. Its a system I could put together today for $1500. It would garner no respect, but be tremendous fun. 105db sensitivity with Infinity refinement will get a party started. I could put the system together, but would not have any room for it.

[poppachubby]

I'd like a vintage party system like the ones I saw and could not afford in high school and college. I'm talking like pair of Infinity SM155
Its a system I could put together today for $1500. It would garner no respect, but be tremendous fun. 105db sensitivity with Infinity refinement will get a party started. I could put the system together, but would not have any room for it.

Slump my Sound Dynamics rate at 102db sensitivity and are AWESOME fun. I will never get rid of them. You should indulge yourself.

[Geoffcin]

I've had both dynamic and planar speakers for decades, but if there's one system I would really like to hear in my audio room it would be these, the Avantegarde Trio with basshorns ;

http://www.hifiexpert.eu/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/a/basshorn_detail_30x_4.jpg

driven by one of the more iconic amps available, the 47 Labs Gaincard.

http://www.midlandaudiox-change.co.uk/data/images/DSC00051.JPG


I just love the internals of this amp;

http://feuerbacher.net/DogBreath/GainCard/GainCardInnards1.jpg

http://feuerbacher.net/DogBreath/GainCard/GainCardInnards2.jpg

Hard to believe that this amp sells for thousands.

[Happy Camper]

Very Nice!!! I have my eye on a LCD-2 as a potential upgrade from my K701s.. How do you find that they compare?

They don't compare. The K701 has been a solid performer for me since 06. I'll move them and the RS-1 as both had a job they do well. The LCD-2 does it better. Since a dsp module upgrade on the dac, even the soundstage is better. Not as airy as the HD-800 but has more sonic information being heard. The bass is speaker like in impact and details similar to stat presentation.

The LCD-2 has a HD 650 like house sound. Some would say it sounds dark at low volumes but give it some juice and wait to be impressed. Songs I've had a hard time with because of congested material not letting me hear the full vocal, I can hear all punctuation of vocals I've not heard before, the venue's sonic character in the background, the artist preparing their lips or shuffling feet.

My guess is that if you like the Benchmark/701 combo, you might be more into the treble side of things. I think I am too, which is why I want to hear the HE-6. It is supposed to have more treble energy but is harder to drive.

[Poultrygeist]

I'd be headed in this direction.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/ob/ob_2.html

[harley .guy07]

I am in the process of trying to finish incorporating my HT and stereo two channel system as one and I am getting there. But if I were to do it all over again and had the greenbacks to do it I think I would have a pre processor that is solid state with SS amps that are very high powered and some very dynamic and revealing speakers for that system and incorporate a home theater and solid state crank it system for hark rock stuff. Then it another room I would build a all tube system with high efficiency speakers for the strengths in that type of system when the need for that type of sound and the strengths of that type of system are needed. Then I would have one more room for a experimental room dedicated to playing around with anything that is out there and trying any type of combination just to see what the results would be. Also I could review different components in this room easier without disturbing my main systems. I would have all three rooms in the basement so that it would not effect the normal living ability in the home and get my woman happy. I think if every audiophile could afford to do this then they could have and get the benefits of every type of system out there and there would not be to constant what ifs going through peoples head all the time.

[Ajani]

I am in the process of trying to finish incorporating my HT and stereo two channel system as one and I am getting there. But if I were to do it all over again and had the greenbacks to do it I think I would have a pre processor that is solid state with SS amps that are very high powered and some very dynamic and revealing speakers for that system and incorporate a home theater and solid state crank it system for hark rock stuff. Then it another room I would build a all tube system with high efficiency speakers for the strengths in that type of system when the need for that type of sound and the strengths of that type of system are needed. Then I would have one more room for a experimental room dedicated to playing around with anything that is out there and trying any type of combination just to see what the results would be. Also I could review different components in this room easier without disturbing my main systems. I would have all three rooms in the basement so that it would not effect the normal living ability in the home and get my woman happy. I think if every audiophile could afford to do this then they could have and get the benefits of every type of system out there and there would not be to constant what ifs going through peoples head all the time.

Yep, that is exactly what I'm talking about! I would love to have multiple systems... Unlike some persons cough * Pix * cough I believe that just about any type of technology has specific strengths and weaknesses... I don't believe there is one right answer to the HiFi question...

Also I think that regardless of which tech you start with, the more money you have to spend the less the limitations of that tech become... So for example, a planar speakers is a bad way to get deep bass if you have a low budget, however if you have enough money you can get one bigger than a pair garage doors, that will play flat down to 10hz... However, as I lack the funds available to chase a specific tech to it's maximum capability, I think it'd be more fun to have several systems... I especially love the idea of an experimental system for playing with new tech and DIY projects...

[harley .guy07]

Yep, that is exactly what I'm talking about! I would love to have multiple systems... Unlike some persons cough * Pix * cough I believe that just about any type of technology has specific strengths and weaknesses... I don't believe there is one right answer to the HiFi question...

Also I think that regardless of which tech you start with, the more money you have to spend the less the limitations of that tech become... So for example, a planar speakers is a bad way to get deep bass if you have a low budget, however if you have enough money you can get one bigger than a pair garage doors, that will play flat down to 10hz... However, as I lack the funds available to chase a specific tech to it's maximum capability, I think it'd be more fun to have several systems... I especially love the idea of an experimental system for playing with new tech and DIY projects...

Yeah I understand what you mean with planer speakers and in reality my listening room would not give a pair the space to breath like they want and frankly they are too big for my tastes anyway but I have heard a few that sounded fantastic.

I thought it was a good idea to have a dedicated room to research and development so I can see for myself if some people are right with what they say or are they two universes apart from what I think is quality of audio reproduction. There is a lot of snake oil mixed in with the good ideas that are out there.

[Ajani]

I'd be headed in this direction.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/ob/ob_2.html

I assume you want to build the OB on the right... I'm going for the one on the left... The concept of a using a full range driver in a 3 way configuration just doesn't do it for me... I get the reasons why it is preferable to just using a standard 3 way in an OB, but it just feels wrong...

[pixelthis]

My response should confuse the hell out of you Pixel because it is cheap and not esoteric (which you should like) but involves obsolete technology (which you do not like).

I'd like a vintage party system like the ones I saw and could not afford in high school and college. I'm talking like pair of Infinity SM155
http://www.audiocostruzioni.com/r_s/diffusori/infinity-sm155/infinity%20sm%20152.jpg

With Carver Amplification
http://www.lehigh.edu/~evb209/projects/carver3/01.jpg

with an Akai
http://www.magnatmuseum.nl/Cliparts/HiFi%20Museum/Akai/Akai%20GX-F71.jpg

and a Technics
http://journal.commonfolkcollective.com/uploaded_images/technics1200-790281.jpg

front end. Its a system I could put together today for $1500. It would garner no respect, but be tremendous fun. 105db sensitivity with Infinity refinement will get a party started. I could put the system together, but would not have any room for it.

Not that I don't like old stuff, as long as it was built right in the first place.
Your Infinities look nice, and some of that other stuff is interesting. I THINK YOUR technics platter is newer than either one of my two .
And I don't "hate" any tech, I find it all fascinating, but the case has been made against
tube tech, and delusional types just haven't gotten the word yet.
like some of the drunks I used to arrest..."well, sir, for starters you ran through a stop sign,
and I MEAN THROUGH a stop sign, and the pastor will be pissed about what you did
in the baptismal pool...
"Oh thats just great...got a light?" AND SO ON.
Don't care for harmonic distortion in the audible range, don't care if you call it that or the "warm" tube sound. Don't care for heater circuits in my amps, just a path for noise.
And the heat and the electrons traveling through vaccume lead to an unstable circuit,
no way to keep it on the straight and narrow.
Which is fine, just don't announce your obsolete , over priced junk as the second coming
of our good lord. I SAY its obsolete junk and I SAY TO H*** with it.
The criteria for so called "audiophiles" is, the older and more obsolete the better.
One guy actually introduced a slightly gussied up gramophone one year at
C.E.S and watched in amusement as pretentious "audiophiles" swarmed all over it.
And peeps wonder why the hobbies dying.:1:

[pixelthis]

OH, and Akai cassette decks never were worth squat, the ones that didn't die faster than a fruit fly sounded like crap. Sorry. THE delicate bits on that deck has been separating
oxide from tape for years. Congrats on having one that still works. Reminds me of
the Volkswagen WOODY ALLEN found in a cave in the movie Sleeper. Cranked
right up, although several hundred years old. BUT thats expected in a VOLKSWAGEN.:1: