Stereo speakers question

[System_92]

My dad has some older speakers that I would want to pick-up and use. The problem is over the years the amp that came with it got broke.
Now I'm looking into using them with my computer (laptop). So I'm looking into amps and preamps that would make everything work together. Problem is I'm not that good in this stuff and I would like some feedback from you guys.

The speakers are a pair of Bowers & Wilkins (B&W) DM580.
Specs:

- 2 x 8" composite fibre mid/base drivers
- 25mm aluminium dome tweeter
- Power handling: 10 - 150w RMS
- Impedance: 8 ohms
- Sensitivity: 91db


I found anAmerican Audio VLP300 Professional Amplifier
Specs:

300 Watts
Daul Fans
Compact Design
Front LED Meters
Compact Design; Daul Fans
300 Watts power
Daul Fans, Compact Design, Front LED Meters
Output Power: 150W RMS Per Channel @ 4 Ohms, 1kHz, 0.1% THD / 100W RMS Per Channel @ 8 Ohms, 1kHz, 0.1% THD / (Bridge Mode, Mono)
300W RMS @ 8 Ohms, 1K Hz, 1% THD
Total Harmonic Distortion: Less Than 0.1% (20Hz - 20kHz @ 8 Ohms)
Frequency response: (+ or -01db, @rated output Power, 8 Ohms): 20Hz-20KHz
Damping Factor @ 8 ohm: 260; Slew Rate: 15V per usec
Impedance: 20 Ohms balanced / 10 Ohms unbalanced
Cooling system: 2 individual fans
High/low pass filter; Input sensitivity selector ; Ground lift
Dimensions: 13-1/4"L x 19"W x 1-3/4"H


Also aGemini PA-7000 Professional Preamplifier.
Specs:

Solid-state stereo preamplifier
Designed to fit into a single space of an audio rack mount
Three-band equalizer for Bass/Mid/Treble
Four inputs and a 1/4" microphone input with level control
Ideal for amplifying up to 4 sources of audio to line-level



Do you guys think that these components are compatible? Will this setup work if I plug it into my laptop's headphone jack?
Thanks!

[SlumpBuster]

What did your dad use to power them? It would be a shame to hook up those B&W to the components you suggest.

Get one of these instead:
http://www.jr.com/yamaha/pe/YAM_RS300BL/#productTabDetails

Or one of these:

http://www.crutchfield.com/s_745C316BEE/NAD-C-316BEE.html?tp=34948

They just about match your price range. Don't let the "low" wattage ratings fool or deter you. They will match much better with the B&Ws both sonically and visually. The stuff you are proposing to use is like matching Velveeta to a fine wine.

[Mr Peabody]

Agreed, the B&W are very nice speakers. I'm not familiar with the power amp but I know Gemini is, well, to be polite, budget orientated and would not be very clean. If you end up with bad sound it won't be from the speakers. Good speakers require quality electronics.

[harley .guy07]

The speakers you have are good quality built speakers and they will sound good with the right electronics but the two amps you have mentioned are like Mr Peabody has said they are budget oriented and they would make the B&W's sound very bright and edgy since these speakers have a brighter presentation to begin with. I would look at some used adcom or rotel gear or something in the home audio world not the pro sound world since these components are built for power output and not necessarily sound quality in the home environment. Even a good integrated amp from rotel or nad would be a good place to start and these amps could be had used on Ebay or Audiogon for very cheap prices. And don't let the power ratings be your ultimate guide to what will make them sound their best since the output power is just one part of a amplifiers sound quality and how they will sound with certain speakers or equipment. I would take your time and do some research and learning and go from there and if you find something that seems like a good deal let us know about it before purchasing and let some of the more helpful folks here let you know if you are heading in the right direction.

[System_92]

Thanks for the input guys! I still have a few questions though since I don't know much in the field and I want to make sure I make an informed decision.

-Is there a sound quality difference in between an integrated amp and a seperate amp and pre-amp?
-What wattage would you recommend the amp output to be for household use with the speakers?
-Would I be able to plug my laptop directly into the pre-amp from the former's headphone output jack?

Thank you again for your help!

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks for the input guys! I still have a few questions though since I don't know much in the field and I want to make sure I make an informed decision.

-Is there a sound quality difference in between an integrated amp and a seperate amp and pre-amp?

Not because of integrated vs separates, it really depends on what brands you are comparing. You could have a very good integrated that sounds better than certain separates. Separates usually gives more flexibility with upgrading and switching gear around.

-What wattage would you recommend the amp output to be for household use with the speakers?

I hate to be vague but again there are many variables, mainly amp design. I'd recommend a quality 100 watts or so. A high current amp would be best.

-Would I be able to plug my laptop directly into the pre-amp from the former's headphone output jack?

Probably not the best connection but it could be done. Doesn't your computer have some type of audio output you could use other than the headphone? Some even use a wireless application.
Thank you again for your help!
xxxxx

[System_92]

I've read upon the option of using an HDMI output for the computer. Although I have only been able to find receivers supporting that kind of input. Is that a viable option? Would I still need an amp?

[Mr Peabody]

I wouldn't pay for a receiver just to use HDMI. It would be worth it if you'd use all the bells & whistles. Maybe get an Onkyo which has higher current amp section or a higher powered Denon which is usually sold with B&W.

If only getting the amp for music I'd get an integrated amp and either use the headphone out or buy a whireless connection.

Some body posted about an integrated amp with built in DAC that would be a good idea for you but I can't remember the brand right now. That way you could use either an optical or coaxial digital connection.

[System_92]

I wouldn't pay for a receiver just to use HDMI. It would be worth it if you'd use all the bells & whistles. Maybe get an Onkyo which has higher current amp section or a higher powered Denon which is usually sold with B&W.

If only getting the amp for music I'd get an integrated amp and either use the headphone out or buy a whireless connection.

Some body posted about an integrated amp with built in DAC that would be a good idea for you but I can't remember the brand right now. That way you could use either an optical or coaxial digital connection.

So if I understand correctly, getting a higher current amp section will make-up for the headphone output?

[Mr Peabody]

No, higher current helps with driving more difficult speaker loads and gives better control over the drivers in the speaker.

[System_92]

So after a lot of looking around and based on financial restrictions, I have come to this setup:

Laptop --> Yamaha AX-497 --> B&W DM580

To get from my computer to the integrated amp I am thinking of simply running a miniplug-to-rca cable.

How does this sound like? I unfortunately don't have the means to get fancy $2,000 amps and preamps, nor found any other (better) feasible ways of connecting my laptop to the amp.

[Mr Peabody]

I don't know yet what the specs are for the Yamaha but the set up looks pretty good.

[System_92]

The speakers are class C, but the Yamaha amp is Class B, it this alright?

AX-497 specs:
Minimum RMS Output Power
(8 Ω , 20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.019% THD)
[AX-497] .................................................. ............ 85 W + 85 W
(6 Ω , 20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.038% THD)
[AX-497] .................................................. ........ 100 W + 100 W
Dynamic Power (IHF) (8/6/4/2 Ω)
[AX-497] .................................................. ..... 130/150/185/220 W
Maximum Output Power
(1 kHz, 0.7% THD, 4 Ω) [U.K. and Europe models only]
[AX-497] .................................................. ....................... 120 W
Power Band Width
[AX-497] (0.04% THD, 42.5 W, 8 Ω) .................10 Hz to 50 kHz
Damping Factor
20 Hz to 20 kHz, 8 Ω .................................................. 240 or more
Maximum Input Signal
PHONO (1 kHz, 0.003% THD) .......................... 115 mV or more
CD, etc. (1 kHz, 0.5% THD) ................................... 2.2 V or more

I took out what I thought was important, full specs are HERE (http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Manuals/Components/AX497_en.pdf) @ page 22/23 of the pdf.

[Mr Peabody]

The 85 to 100 watts should drive the speakers alright. Be sure to post back and let us know how the system sounds. When you refer to "class B/c" are you talking about Stereophile rating? If so, I personally don't put any stock in that at all. It just means they liked the amp better than the speakers. I think you will be pleased with your result.

[System_92]

The 85 to 100 watts should drive the speakers alright. Be sure to post back and let us know how the system sounds. When you refer to "class B/c" are you talking about Stereophile rating? If so, I personally don't put any stock in that at all. It just means they liked the amp better than the speakers. I think you will be pleased with your result.

Will do!

I'm not sure what B was referring to for the amp, but class C for the speakers had to do with it's sensitivity (91db).

[Mr Peabody]

91dB is a decent, average, sensitivity rating which is good. In general, the higher the sensitivity rating the louder it will play with a certain input signal, typically 1 watt @ 1 meter.

[rakeford]

So after a lot of looking around and based on financial restrictions, I have come to this setup:

Laptop --> Yamaha AX-497 --> B&W DM580

To get from my computer to the integrated amp I am thinking of simply running a miniplug-to-rca cable.

How does this sound like? I unfortunately don't have the means to get fancy $2,000 amps and preamps, nor found any other (better) feasible ways of connecting my laptop to the amp.
I think you'll like this setup. I have the Yamaha RX-797 receiver driving two Klipsch RF-7s. I can can't get the volume past 10 o'clock without blasting my ears off. The sound is clean and pure.

You need to check the audio output of your computer to see if it has a "line level output" which is what the CD, TAPE, and "AUX" inputs on the receiver is looking for. These are the "RCA" input jacks on the back of the receiver.

It looks like the AX-497 has a "PHONO" input so you can plug a turntable into it and become a vinyl junkie. :D

I'm listening to Beatles "White album" on white vinyl right now. :7:

[RGA]

When buying a receiver purchase one that provides you with all of the features you need. The sound differences among those in the same price range is negligible if it exists at all. Most of the bigger name companies likely source most of the parts from the same three or four unknown Chinese manufacturers so they all likely use the exact same boards, transformers, caps, resisters, wiring and even cases. All of those components will also be the amongst the cheapest varieties available.

My Insignia TV is FAR FAR FAR better in every regard to my much more expensive Sony Bravia TV. Apple computers are ASUS boards - There is not one single component in an apple laptop that is manufactured by Apple. My old Ford Aerostar had NISSAN stamped on it. Receivers are like laptops - they are feature boxes with outsourced boards that do a particular process. Sound is a very distant second. And in most cases when a receiver is said to be better sounding such as those from Arcam - they tend not to have nearly the features and cost more. And they still don't sound "that much" better.

More expensive receivers do support more home theater functions and more user control which is beneficial if you are super anal about it - but if you have positioning flexibility with the speakers and the receiver has a reasonable set of HT functions it's probably not worth spending 5 to 10 times the money unless you are a major hometheaterphile.

Yamaha is likely quite fine if it does what you need it to do.

[Feanor]

... Apple computers are ASUS boards - There is not one single component in an apple laptop that is manufactured by Apple. ...
Well, at least Apple source from the best M/B maker. :thumbsup:

Outsourcing is the way things are done these days: nobody makes everything himself.

[Mr Peabody]

RGA, you also need to slum a bit more because there are differences in sound of receivers. Actually, most of what you said is just not true. Receiver manufacturer's may not make some of the parts and chips that go in the box but application and brands of parts vary quite a bit. Not all use the same DAC, same video processing, same preamp section etc. Onkyo's amp section is structured different than most others having much more current than most competitors and Yamaha seems to put good emphasis on a nice midrange and detail, as in most auditioning if you listen objectively you'll hear differences. You will see a lot of simularities when a certain part becomes a buzz word like "Burr Brown" or "Audessy" or whatever the flavor of the day becomes. Then every one thinks they have to have it in order to be viable. But that doesn't mean they all are the same throughout.

[frenchmon]

Apple computers are ASUS boards - There is not one single component in an apple laptop that is manufactured by Apple.

Interesting. There is a guy who is Quality manager where I work who use to work production and third level support at Apple out in California for 14 years. I'll ask him Monday when I see him about how much is really Apples.

[System_92]

You need to check the audio output of your computer to see if it has a "line level output" which is what the CD, TAPE, and "AUX" inputs on the receiver is looking for. These are the "RCA" input jacks on the back of the receiver.


Thanks for your input!

However there is one last thing bugging me with the setup. I'm not a 100% sure that my headphone output wil do the job... You mentioned line level output (which I don't have), will my headphone output do the job?

Thanks!

[rakeford]

Thanks for your input!

However there is one last thing bugging me with the setup. I'm not a 100% sure that my headphone output wil do the job... You mentioned line level output (which I don't have), will my headphone output do the job?

Thanks!
Probably, on some laptops, the headphone output detect what it's hooked up to and acts accordingly.

If you try it, start with the headphone volume off. Then slowly turn up the volume. Be careful, if you turn it too loud you might damage something.

[System_92]

Probably, on some laptops, the headphone output detect what it's hooked up to and acts accordingly.

If you try it, start with the headphone volume off. Then slowly turn up the volume. Be careful, if you turn it too loud you might damage something.

Would there be a way to test this before purchasing the amp?

[Mr Peabody]

The headphone will work, no doubt. It's just that it's variable where a typical line level is fixed. Other components such as TV's, MP3 players and CD Players often have a variable output. I would find the output from the laptop's headphone jack that closely matched other sources you have in volume and just keep it at that level for listening with your amp. Sometimes if the headphone level is too high it can cause distortion. That was my concern with you using the headphone jack.

[System_92]

The headphone will work, no doubt. It's just that it's variable where a typical line level is fixed. Other components such as TV's, MP3 players and CD Players often have a variable output. I would find the output from the laptop's headphone jack that closely matched other sources you have in volume and just keep it at that level for listening with your amp. Sometimes if the headphone level is too high it can cause distortion. That was my concern with you using the headphone jack.

Alright, it makes more sense now! Thanks!