Getting rid of the Equalizer

[dakatabg]

Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!

[pixelthis]

Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!

Good for you, next step is to throw that "beautiful" EQ in the trash, EQ is horse and buggy.
A properly EQ'd system sounds great, but will never sound as good as a 500 dollar receiver
with Audyssey auto setup. YES, ITS THAT good!
AND EASY, all you do is plug in the setup mic, listen to the beeps from each speaker,
and be prepared to be amazed.
Some Audyssey is better than others, I think(not sure), my 1,000 Integra has level
and EQ setup, nothing this cheap has a right to sound this good.
And a bonus, it does a good enough job with my B&W sub that I recently repaired
that I can use it with two channel audio without sacrificing the sound quality.
Audyssey is not hype, it is a genuine improvement, and no matter how "hot" your system
is, its worth buying something with Audyssey just to get the effect of a perfectly
balanced system. MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason. With Audyssey they can go back to it. THE TUBE crowd can ignore all of the above, turn over and go back to your 1934 SET amps.:1:

[Hyfi]

MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason. Thats right, with a decent setup, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.


With Audyssey they can go back to it. THE TUBE crowd can ignore all of the above, turn over and go back to your 1934 SET amps.:1:

Again, with a proper tube based system, along with a pair of speakers that match, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.

Now all you HTIB is better than any tube based system folks can go back to trying different equalizers to get the same sound that an Audiophile has without extra help.


Dak,

An equalizer helps in some cases, not in others. The guy who owned the system I have now did need an EQ because the system was on an enclosed porch that was all floor to ceiling glass doors. The glass zapped all the bass right out of the speakers. These speakers don't go real deep but they play the notes accurately. I have blended a sub in for the deeper bass when needed or desired but I listen both ways.

My system has no tone controls either and I don't miss them at all.

[winston]

Since I bought the Kenwood C2 preamplifier, the system sounds much better without the beautiful GE-1100 equalizer. When I had the C1 preamp it was improving the sound but with the C2 it makes it worse so I have to have it turned off!
I hear U man.... I remember back in the day's I could not live without my (Sansui-eq) BUT those were my day's of the "TT", it becomes a door stop after the Cd's and new audio equipment takes over, (IMO the Graphic equalizer renders useless, given that every things much more efficient these days ) but it sure was great with those old shellac.:15:

that said, I some times used my old "BSR PARAMETRIC EQ with my headphones

[dakatabg]

It all depends on what amp or receiver you use! If you use a crapy one, you will need eq to fix the sound a little!

[TheHills44060]

MOST AUDIOPHILES gave up on EQ a long time ago, and for good reason.


Thats right, with a decent setup, you don't need an Equalizer or Tone Controls.

I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

[Hyfi]

I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

Umm, I actually have a cassette player and listen to tapes I made of albums way back. In my system, these tapes sound as good or better than CDs because they retained the analog emotion from the source album.

I also worked in machine shops for 25 years and still don't really need any treble boost. I have a Hafler 945 Pre Tuner with tone controls that can be taken out of the path and it always sounded better with them turned off. I now have a Rotel Receiver with tone controls that cannot be disabled which I don't like.

My VAC pre is just plain dual mono with left and right volume, no tone, no eq and doesn't need them.

I guess it all depends on the gear and how crappy the cassette is.

[TheHills44060]

True, I have a lot of dubbed cassettes and even some manufactured cassettes that are unbearable with out some sort of tone modification. Others sound just fine.

[pixelthis]

I totally disagree Do none of you listen to cassettes? I specifically got a preamp with defeatable tone controls cuz I needed them. I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.

Of course I don't listen to cassettes, like most of the world I have moved on.
Any form factor that requires EQ to just sound decent is not worth the trouble.
I USED TO HAVE a NAD cassette recorder, used it to record my vinyl to listen to in the car,
only choice you had. I STILL HAVE A CASSETTE player in my car, use an adapter to listen
to my MP3 player with over a hundred albums on it.
THEY SELL a USB cassette player, complete with software to clean up the inherent
noise in a cassette. YOU NEED TO GET IT, transfer your tapes to the computer, clean them up, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
CASSETTE has a lifespan(short) and sound like crap, they only existed to fill a gap nothing
else at the time would fill. They have no place in the modern world.
TOSS EM.:1:

[TheHills44060]

YOU NEED TO GET IT, transfer your tapes to the computer,
there's where u are wrong...i do not want a computer touching my audio! i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken. i am forced to work with a computer every ****in day...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.

[02audionoob]

Speaking of cassette and analog recording...I find recording to digital to be better than recording to tape. In recent years I significantly upgraded my cassette capability with a Sony ES and a Nakamichi and then sold them both after seeing they couldn't keep up with the Pioneer CD recorder. I also think my recordings to the computer through a SoundBlaster Live USB beat tape, too.

Of course, if I had a Dragon I might have a different experience. So if I run across one at the local thrifts I'll report back. :)

[E-Stat]

I cannot tell you the number of tapes I have where i need to tip the treble, especially ones recorded without HX-Pro.
The problem is that you cannot add that which is absent - real extended high frequency content. All you can do is boost the lower highs which may well sound *brighter*, but not better to these ears. The same is true of bass. You can fatten up what's there, but not recover lost first octave content. On the other hand, I do use the treble control in my HT system to attenuate overly bright content.


i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.
Indeed. I've been a long term user of both fine products. I consider Quicken an indispensable tool. I too, work for a software provider but don't find any conflict with using computer based technology in my music systems. Just recently, I added a Squeezebox Touch to the garage system which streams content from my office server. I am re-exploring so much of my music library through random play that I had previously forgotten about.

rw

[pixelthis]

there's where u are wrong...i do not want a computer touching my audio! i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken. i am forced to work with a computer every ****in day...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.

Sorry, but that boat has sailed. All new music goes digital at some time or other,
even the "vinyl" that is sold to the rubes.
And if your tapes were recorded after 1980 they probably have been through a DAC
at some time or other, also.
YOU CAN LOSE your music to entropy, they will wear out sooner or later . OR
you can convert them to some kind of lossless audio codec on your computer.
One way they will be gone sooner or later, the other you save something.:1:

[pixelthis]

there's where u are wrong...i do not want a computer touching my audio! i work for Intuit. you might have heard of us, we make turbotax and quicken. i am forced to work with a computer every ****in day...i do not want what makes me feel alive to have anything to do with what funds my existance.

AND if your irrational hatred of computers to play music persists in that brain of yours,
perhaps you can go back to a simpler time(see below).:1:

[hifitommy]

i have a soundcraftsmen pe2217 pre with 10 bands of eq per channel and almost NEVER touch it.

likewise, i have computers all over the house and the ONLY digital streaming is the stations like kkjz.org, kcsm.org and http://www.thesoundla.com/.

i just LOVE the size of LP art and the more complete sound that i get from vinyl. yes, i DO have plenty of digital discs including sacd and a couple of DVDAs and digital is the vehicle that some music comes to you exclusively. i have picked my CD players to be sacd capable ever since i bought my sony ns500v which makes rbcd sound much better than any digital player i ever had before.

room correction hasnt arrived here yet and it may be some time until it does. i believe in it but would have to add an outboard unit to do so. helll, i havent even hooked up my full capability of 5.1 that exists in my nuforce pre/pro. i have a center spkr for the system and amount for it for my video monitor (TV). someday maybe.

my audio research sp3a1 has tone controls that i dont use either but they are there JUST in case.

[pixelthis]

i have a soundcraftsmen pe2217 pre with 10 bands of eq per channel and almost NEVER touch it.

likewise, i have computers all over the house and the ONLY digital streaming is the stations like kkjz.org, kcsm.org and http://www.thesoundla.com/.

i just LOVE the size of LP art and the more complete sound that i get from vinyl. yes, i DO have plenty of digital discs including sacd and a couple of DVDAs and digital is the vehicle that some music comes to you exclusively. i have picked my CD players to be sacd capable ever since i bought my sony ns500v which makes rbcd sound much better than any digital player i ever had before.

room correction hasnt arrived here yet and it may be some time until it does. i believe in it but would have to add an outboard unit to do so. helll, i havent even hooked up my full capability of 5.1 that exists in my nuforce pre/pro. i have a center spkr for the system and amount for it for my video monitor (TV). someday maybe.

my audio research sp3a1 has tone controls that i dont use either but they are there JUST in case.

The best thing is to keep on not touching it.
You chaps across the pond are missing out, I WAS VERY SKEPTICAL of auto EQ
systems, but I have been made a believer. I SHY AWAY from anything that might color the sound, but I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT(PRAISE THE LORD).:1:

[SlumpBuster]

AND if your irrational hatred of computers to play music persists in that brain of yours,
perhaps you can go back to a simpler time(see below).:1:


Why do you insist on telling people that their subjective enjoyment of their system and sources are wrong? Why is it your way or no way?

And guess what? In your effort to be a smart ass, you actually hit the nail on he head. Much of my system and listening habits are designed to transport me to a simpler time. I enjoy my cassettes and LPs from years ago. Why would you care if I run an analog cassette thru a 32 band digital EQ to a Class A amp? Why do you have a problem with that? I understand that cassettes are not perfect. I've taken others on the forums to task for suggesting that they are hi-fi. But, I've never denied anyone the pleasure of their 6th grade mix tapes.

In honor of the mighty much maligned cassette:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQ3aJR_fUg

The troll has been fed.

[SlumpBuster]

And back on topic: I use a cheap Behringer 32 band digital EQ just for fun. In fact it just went back into rotation after being out for like 9 months. I like to play with it to tweak sources like cassettes and minidiscs. Its fun, looks surprisingly nice, and easily defeatable. All processing is done digitally, so no real noise is added (like my old Teac did), although you could argue that I'm sending the signal through a cheap DAC. But if its an 8 track or cassette, the DAC is the least of my worries.

[Hyfi]

Why do you insist on telling people that their subjective enjoyment of their system and sources are wrong? Why is it your way or no way?

And guess what? In your effort to be a smart ass, you actually hit the nail on he head. Much of my system and listening habits are designed to transport me to a simpler time. I enjoy my cassettes and LPs from years ago. Why would you care if I run an analog cassette thru a 32 band digital EQ to a Class A amp? Why do you have a problem with that? I understand that cassettes are not perfect. I've taken others on the forums to task for suggesting that they are hi-fi. But, I've never denied anyone the pleasure of their 6th grade mix tapes.

In honor of the mighty much maligned cassette:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQ3aJR_fUg

The troll has been fed.

Don't sweat him. Here is a person telling you that cassettes and tubes are outdated as well as anything analog, but he still plays prehistoric vinyl. He will also claim over and over that any HT in a Box sounds as good or better than any tube based system. So what would you expect?

[SlumpBuster]

Thank, hyfi. No sweat, just felt the need to rattle the cage a bit. Although, he may have a point about tubes. :P

[Hyfi]

Thank, hyfi. No sweat, just felt the need to rattle the cage a bit. Although, he may have a point about tubes. :P

Look at it this way, a nice tube setup with no tone controls or EQ or continue to try and make a crappy setup sound as it was never intended and can't possibly sound no matter how many bands the equalizer has.

[SlumpBuster]

Look at it this way, a nice tube setup with no tone controls or EQ or continue to try and make a crappy setup sound as it was never intended and can't possibly sound no matter how many bands the equalizer has.


The internet really needs a sarcasm font. I was kidding about tubes.

I like tubes. I don't have any right now, but enjoy them. As long as they are still used in the production of music (i.e. amp heads and vintage production equipment), then they have a rightful place in the reproduction of music.

One of my favorite entry level rigs that I ever heard was a little integrated Jolida driving a little 4" two way bookshelf (forget the brand) and an entry level Project table. It was something like $1000 total retail. It had me cursing my snake pit of wires and 9.2 speakers and wishing for a little attic room to build a sweet little two channel no digital zone. Oh, and it did not sound anything like an HTiB.

[Hyfi]

The internet really needs a sarcasm font. I was kidding about tubes.



I knew that and my jab was somewhat the same.

There is probably nothing wrong with an EQ as long as the grade of components it is built with are not inferior to the rest of the gear. That and it adds more to the path as well as more cables.

I had an all in one cheapo rack system as a kid with a 3 or 5 band thingy but that is the only time I ever used one. I sold the AudioControl 10 that I got with the rest of the system I have now without ever even trying it out.

[Mingus]

I have two equalizers in the attic that use to be part of my systems. I have to admit they were fun to use especially for cassettes or vinyl sources. Can't think of any place to use it now.

[E-Stat]

I have two equalizers in the attic that use to be part of my systems...Can't think of any place to use it now.
Ebay or Audiogon! Recently, I sold an equalizer along with a CD player, CD changer and some power cords. That funded getting a Squeezebox Touch and aftermarket linear power supply for it. Put what you no longer need to good use - unless you are starting a museum. :)

rw

[pixelthis]

Why do you insist on telling people that their subjective enjoyment of their system and sources are wrong? Why is it your way or no way?

And guess what? In your effort to be a smart ass, you actually hit the nail on he head. Much of my system and listening habits are designed to transport me to a simpler time. I enjoy my cassettes and LPs from years ago. Why would you care if I run an analog cassette thru a 32 band digital EQ to a Class A amp? Why do you have a problem with that? I understand that cassettes are not perfect. I've taken others on the forums to task for suggesting that they are hi-fi. But, I've never denied anyone the pleasure of their 6th grade mix tapes.

In honor of the mighty much maligned cassette:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQ3aJR_fUg

The troll has been fed.

DON'T USE that "troll" crap with me. Shooting the messenger has always been popular
BUT NEVER CHANGES THE FACTS.
Enjoy your cassettes in your fools paradise, more power to you.
And when these tapes turn into worthless strips of plastic tape when all of the oxide
rubs off, destroying whatever music that is stored on them, probably irreplaceable
music will be lost, is all I AM SAYING.
THEN you can sit and stare out the window, probably the only thing that won't be computerized by then.:1:

[SlumpBuster]

Yes, it was silly of me to use the word troll regarding someone who calls people irrational, tells them that they are in a "fools paradise" and tells them to "get a fcuking clue." That is not at all trollish behaviour.

But fair enough, if you you are talking about storing ripped cassettes and LPs on a hard drive that is one thing. But what I took exception to was your assertion that someone is irrational for not wanting to listen to music off a computer, which is what you said. If you're imploring people to back up their music on a computer, then okay. That I can get on board with.

[pixelthis]

Yes, it was silly of me to use the word troll regarding someone who calls people irrational, tells them that they are in a "fools paradise" and tells them to "get a fcuking clue." That is not at all trollish behaviour.

But fair enough, if you you are talking about storing ripped cassettes and LPs on a hard drive that is one thing. But what I took exception to was your assertion that someone is irrational for not wanting to listen to music off a computer, which is what you said. If you're imploring people to back up their music on a computer, then okay. That I can get on board with.

Thats all I am saying.
You listen to a CD, you are listening to music from a computer. MIGHT be called a
CD player but its a one use computer, computers touch every piece of music out there,
the war was over years ago.
ALL I AM SAYING is that you have no choice, mylar tape has a lifespan, and your reticence
over computers is nothing but irrational.
HERES some help, just to show that I AM NO TROLL. Get a reel to reel, copy your stuff onto it. Will still degrade, but with new tape you will be able to deny reality a few more years.
Or heck, even just a CASSETTE DECK, IF you keep insisting on living in analog land,
you will have to copy your tapes every so often.
EVENTUALLY that process in and of itself will destroy your music, of course.:1:

[hifitommy]

well pixi, you ARE a troll, one that likes to see his name spelled out in urine in the snow. its ignorant of you to denigrate other people's preferences.

the word isnt realy in yet about digital storage (there is such a thing as CD rot) AND it just doesnt sound quite as good as analog (dsd and dvda are getting close). for long term storage (as if that's the only reason we put things on tape -how about portability and sound?) one can use metal tape cassettes in a deck with dolby S. it is D.E.A.D. quiet across the audible band and very long storage viability.

btw, there is NO such thing as an ANTIQUE technics tt. none of them are older than 50 yrs and thats pretty much the def of antique.

[thekid]

My two cents......

I will leave the technical aspects of this debate up to those skilled enough to have it.
However, I think everyone can agree that there are differences in sound between digital and analog. There is nothing wrong with preferring one over the other but I think we get off track when start attacking people for their preferences.

It is generally agreed by members here that it okay to prefer one speaker over another or one receiver over another because of individual preferences. So why can't we have the same agreement about formats?

I live comfortably in both worlds and have many titles on both vinyl and CD or even in a few instances cassette. They generally all have differences which I appreciate rather than separate. Which format I listen to is often decided on what I am doing at the moment or how long I plan to listen to music. It is in the end about the music and the listener not the technology and the listener.

[Mark of Cenla]

Back when I was into using one 8" full-range driver, I had to use an EQ to smooth out the sound. Since I left that about two years ago, my EQ was removed and is collecting dust, just the same as my cassette deck. To each his/her own, but I am a CD guy. Peace and goodwill.

[SlumpBuster]

the word isnt realy in yet about digital storage


I don't know about now, but back in the 90s when I was in college, I worked at the University's records archive and the word pretty much was in. All magnetic storage was on a two year storage rotation and CDs were on a three year rotation. That was how little the professional archivists trusted them. It was a real hot topic back then, at least among professional archivists. Wild bunch of nerds them archivists are.

[pixelthis]

well pixi, you ARE a troll, one that likes to see his name spelled out in urine in the snow. its ignorant of you to denigrate other people's preferences.

the word isnt realy in yet about digital storage (there is such a thing as CD rot) AND it just doesnt sound quite as good as analog (dsd and dvda are getting close). for long term storage (as if that's the only reason we put things on tape -how about portability and sound?) one can use metal tape cassettes in a deck with dolby S. it is D.E.A.D. quiet across the audible band and very long storage viability.

btw, there is NO such thing as an ANTIQUE technics tt. none of them are older than 50 yrs and thats pretty much the def of antique.

THE "DEFINITION" of "antique" is such as you, old sot.
Doesnt matter if its "metal" or whatever, tape has a lifespan, and degrades with each copy,
no such thing as a perfect copy in the analog world, however entropy thrives.
CD rot is ancient history, I personally saw the huge filtration system at a JVC disc plant
that takes the iron oxide out of water used to wash CD blanks. To pull up that old bug a boo just shows how out of touch you are.
And I AM NOT "denigrating" another persons choices, just pointing out the inevitable
result of such. It is a fact that cassettes die eventually, just pointing that out.
Live and let live is the mantra of worn out old hippies such as yourself, what everybody
does is fine, doesnt matter how ignorant it is. EVER occur to you that the chap I was
posting to might appreciate the advice?
MOST have noclue as to how fast magnetic tape dies, although some have a vague idea. Even if it doesn't disappear completely in ten years a good percentage of it will be gone, weather you or anybody else likes it or not, and its not a smart way to store precious memories. MOST are aware of this, however they don't understand just how poor
a storage medium tape is. AND PLAYBACK AINT THAT GREAT EITHER.
But if someone is banging his head against the wall, engaging in behavior that is guaranteed to destroy his music, well, just wouldn't be PC to point that out, now would it?
BETTER WE JUST JOIN HANDS and sing shambala and chant love poems to each other
while children jump around and toss rose petals.:1:

[Hyfi]

BETTER WE JUST JOIN HANDS and sing shambala and chant love poems to each other
while children jump around and toss rose petals.:1:

I think you may have meant "Kum By Ya" and not Shambala. I don't think anyone but you will be singing Shambala but you.....

In Buddhism

* Shambhala Buddhism is a Buddhist lineage headed by Sakyong Mipham RInpoche

Related to Shambhala Buddhism:

* Shambhala, a mythical kingdom described in the Kalachakra tantra of Tibetan Buddhism
* Shambhala Training
* Shambhala Sun, a bimonthly, Buddhist-inspired magazine, published by the Shambhala Sun Foundation
* The Shambhala School, a a non-denominational private school in Halifax, Nova Scotia

In Hinduism

In Hinduism Shambala has three meanings:

* Shambhal is a place where one gets peace and security
* Another meaning is, "that which attracts others", or "that which confers distinction"
* The third meaning is, "a place situated near water".

In Theosophy

* Shamballa (Theosophical spelling) is the dwelling place of the governing deity of Earth, Sanat Kumara, and his attendants.

In Hollow Earth Cosmology

* Shamballah is the chief city of the Agharta, mythological land of advanced races and knowledge living at the center of the hollow earth