The world is too ugly and cruel

[JohnMichael]

NBC News and news services
updated 9/30/2010 7:18:00 PM ET
Share Print Font: +-Some gay rights groups are urging that New Jersey's hate crime law be used in the case of the Rutgers student who committed suicide after an intimate encounter with another student was shown on the Internet.

The state's hate crime law is among the strictest in the nation, and it works as most of them do. It's not an offense charged on its own. Instead, it's invoked at sentencing to seek a harsher penalty. The criminal charges filed so far in the case — invasion of privacy — would qualify for a hate crime enhancement, say legal experts in the state.

Technolog: Internet was help — and hell — for Rutgers freshman
According to the Middlesex County prosecutor, New Jersey's invasion of privacy statutes make it a crime "to collect or view images depicting nudity or sexual contact involving another individual without that person's consent." It's a separate crime to transmit or distribute those images. The penalty can include a prison term of up to five years.

If the hate crime enhancement were applied, it would raise the maximum penalty to 10 years.

Tyler Clementi, 18, jumped off New York City's George Washington Bridge into the Hudson River last week. His body was identified on Thursday after being found in the river a day before.


Was Rutgers suicide case a hate crime?
Outrage on campus after sex-video suicide
Gay rights groups say Rutgers suicide a hate crime
..Clementi's roommate, Dharun Ravi, and fellow Rutgers freshman Molly Wei, both 18, have been charged with invading Clementi's privacy. Prosecutors say that they used a webcam to surreptitiously transmit a live image of Clementi having sex Sept. 19 and that Ravi tried to webcast a second encounter on Sept. 21, the day before Clementi's suicide.

As for possible federal charges, a Justice Department official says that's not likely at this point. The federal hate crime law would not apply, the official says, because it requires proof of an intent to cause violence to the victim.

.YouTube channel offers hope to gay teens

Steven Goldstein, chairman of New Jersey-based Garden State Equality, said in a statement that his group considers Clementi's death a hate crime.

"We are heartbroken over the tragic loss of a young man who, by all accounts, was brilliant, talented and kind," Goldstein said. "And we are sickened that anyone in our society, such as the students allegedly responsible for making the surreptitious video, might consider destroying others' lives as a sport."

Former assistant Essex County prosecutor Luanne Peterpaul, who is vice chairwoman of Garden State Equality, said in order to apply the hate crime law prosecutors would need to establish that the defendants were motivated to act because they perceived Clementi as gay. But that can be hard to prove, she said.

Story: Outrage on campus over student's suicide after sex is broadcast online
Gay rights groups say Clementi's death is the latest example of a long-standing problem: young people who kill themselves because they're bullied about being gay — regardless of whether they are.

In response to Clementi's death and others, the group Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians and Gays said it would issue a "call to action" on the topic.

Last week, Dan Savage, a columnist at the Seattle weekly newspaper The Stranger, launched the It Gets Better Project, a YouTube channel where gay, lesbian and bisexual adults share the turmoil they experienced when they were younger — and show how their lives have gotten better.

NBC News Justice Correspondent Pete Williams and The Associated Press contributed to this report.


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This is not a world for a gentle soul.

[Geoffcin]

This is big news here in NY. Hard to believe this happed at Rutgers. Really sad.

[Hyfi]

This is sad anywhere. It is such a shame that this happens anywhere but here in the states I blame it on our Religiously run Government that continues to dis-allow equality and tolerance of lifestyles, not always a choice but just the way people are born and wired, that the Book says is bad.

F the book, it's thousands of years old and totally irrelevant in today's world. I am so sick of every election being based on whether the candidate is for or against abortion, which is directly tied to religious beliefs.

I guess what I am ranting about is that if people were taught at a young age to be more accepting and tolerant of others, no matter what, we would not have this kind of behavior. But, in order for that to happen, the adults have to start behaving that way and the politicians, and the freakin outdated churches.

[Feanor]

Tolerance, after all these years, is still far from ubiquitous.

My fear is that we could be entering a long interval during which it will be even less prevalent. Tough times are my prognosis for North America and Europe for the next generation. During tough times people become more polarized and more extreme.

Power elites and their politician lackeys exploit prejudices and fears to further their agendas. So for example US corporations and very rich are flogging "social conservatism" to the ignorant masses. You'd be serious wrong you imagine that the former give a pinch of poop about abortion or gay marriage but how else do can they get the Republican or Tea Party rank & foul to vote for economic policies that utterly contrary to their actual interests?

[GMichael]

This is big news here in NY. Hard to believe this happed at Rutgers. Really sad.
Yeah, you can't turn on the TV without hearing something about this case. But somehow, the news never really tells what's going on.

[Geoffcin]

Well I don't know about Rutgers personally, but I would assume it was much like Stony Brook, where my daughter graduated from. From what I know of that campus being non-hetero does not even rate an "oh look at that".I think this stupid prank has cast a intolerant stain on all the regional college student bodies, but when if you really look at it it's was a personal decision made by one or two jerks. Involentary manslaughter would be a good charge in this case. They just about ran the poor kid over.

[ForeverAutumn]

Involentary manslaughter would be a good charge in this case. They just about ran the poor kid over.

This is such a tragic story. And obviously the people who did this should be punished. My original though was the same as Geoff's. But I don't believe that one event in isolation can cause someone enough grief to commit suicide (although I'm not an expert so I could be wrong). I suspect that this poor guy was already struggling. Perhaps this event was the straw that broke the camel's back, but they didn't kill him. He killed himself. He had other options. He could have changed schools, changed his name, waited a week until some drunk jock did something even worse and he was yesterday's news.

There was a story in Canada recently where a high school girl was gang raped and the video and picture were posted on Youtube and other sites. She was obviously devastated and will require lots of therapy. But she didn't kill herself.

I think that it would be very hard to prove that these two people are directly responsible for his death. Yes, it was a dumb prank and shouldn't have been done. If it was done solely because he was gay then I think that charging them with a hate crime would be justified. But I don't think that a manslaughter charge would stick. Unless there is more to this case than we know.

OTOH, perhaps charging them with, and trying them for, manslaughter, even if it won't stick, will set a precedence for the future.

[Hyfi]

This is such a tragic story. And obviously the people who did this should be punished. My original though was the same as Geoff's. But I don't believe that one event in isolation can cause someone enough grief to commit suicide (although I'm not an expert so I could be wrong). I suspect that this poor guy was already struggling. Perhaps this event was the straw that broke the camel's back, but they didn't kill him. He killed himself. He had other options. He could have changed schools, changed his name, waited a week until some drunk jock did something even worse and he was yesterday's news.

There was a story in Canada recently where a high school girl was gang raped and the video and picture were posted on Youtube and other sites. She was obviously devastated and will require lots of therapy. But she didn't kill herself.

I think that it would be very hard to prove that these two people are directly responsible for his death. Yes, it was a dumb prank and shouldn't have been done. If it was done solely because he was gay then I think that charging them with a hate crime would be justified. But I don't think that a manslaughter charge would stick. Unless there is more to this case than we know.

OTOH, perhaps charging them with, and trying them for, manslaughter, even if it won't stick, will set a precedence for the future.

Public Hangings on a regular basis may help people that think there are no consequences for their actions realize that there are.

The thing that sucks is that you can spend more time in jail for pot that killing someone.

[JohnMichael]

When I think back to days when I was that young I remember how tough it was.I had not fully admitted to myself that I was gay. I knew which sex I was attracted to but not ready to declare myself yet. Of course I had the misfortune of my classmates deciding in the 7th grade that I was gay. My greatest fear was family rejection.

I wonder how well this young man new himself. Did he come from a family that would not support his being gay. Was he ready to have his intimate experiences broadcast. Did his relationship end because of the hidden camera. I wonder at that age and all that might have been involved would I have been the next over the bridge.

[ForeverAutumn]

Well thank goodness you didn't take that jump!

I have many gay friends and they all have similar stories of trying to fight what they knew was the truth. I have one friend who, like you, had his classmates decide in elementary school that he was gay. He wasn't ready to admit it until later in high school. He had a terrible childhood. I remember him getting beat up regularly. And then when he finally did come out, his sister disowned him.

It kind of makes me laugh when I hear haters talk about how being gay is a choice. Of the gay people that I know, if it were a choice, they certainly would not have chosen to be gay. If only people could be more tolerant of something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

[JohnMichael]

There was a story in Canada recently where a high school girl was gang raped and the video and picture were posted on Youtube and other sites. She was obviously devastated and will require lots of therapy. But she didn't kill herself.
.


Rape is an incredibly tragic event and I am profoundly sorry anyone would experience such a life changing crime. I am glad she is surviving and receiving support. Having good people rally around you after such an event is very important. Going through it alone is a very lonely and difficult time.

I wish the Rutgers student had more support after his event.

[dean_martin]

Yeah, you can't turn on the TV without hearing something about this case. But somehow, the news never really tells what's going on.

I kind of agree with you, GM. At first I thought that I just wasn't getting the full story because I've been busy, but the article I read in today's paper did not contain many facts. I asked my wife if she had heard anymore details during the day either online or on tv. With 2 kids in college we kind of concluded that having a roommate in a single room dorm room deprives a college student, who may be out on his/her own for the first time, the privacy that we all need at times. From the set up of the webcam and the fact that the young man had to clear use of the room with the room mate we inferred that the young man and the room mate were doubled up in a single room. Such living arrangements can lead to a miserable existence.

And at the same time, there's this goofball DA in Michigan trashing the student at UM for being gay.

I agree with the notion that we are heading backwards when it comes to tolerance/acceptance. Personally, I blame plain white folks who think that gays "have too many rights", that blacks can't complain about racism anymore because "they" have a black president, etc. No matter how ignorant, these are real feelings rising to the surface and being expressed without shame, guilt or remorse. These same folks no longer respect civil rights laws because they believe these laws are the product of big government, that they show favoritism and lead to entitlements. Bigotry is being tolerated as a political movement. These same people have no respect for the law and are taking the law into their own hands. (I saw this happen in a civil rights case I tried 2 weeks ago.) To me, this jeopardizes our country much more than deficits, bailouts and big government. It's a weird, scary time of regression in American society. It's time to push back before it's too late.

[recoveryone]

Based on what little information that is trickling out west on this case, I would look at this a manslaughter case ( where the action of one causes the death of another) any additional charges could go into the area of wire tapping/cyber intrusion, since neither party being broadcast was unaware of the actions taking place. The hatecrime would only be an enhancement on the sentencing if convicted.

[RGA]

not always a choice

It's a biological 100% FACT that it is not a choice.

It's not a choice - but try and tell the fanatics this. Because gee if it IS Biology which it IS, then that means homosexuals were BORN that way and if they were BORN that way in God's image then God might just be a homosexual drag queen. I would soooo love it if he was. The looks on the nutters faces at the Pearly Gates (which might explain why they're pearly) would be so awesome.

In certain ways the gay brain could be argued to be evolutionarily superior to the heterosexual brain (and has been argued by some) and while that is a bit of a leap it has some credibility.

Regardless Homosexuality is NOT a choice - they were born that way - and that's a problem for religion because that means God made them that way on purpose. So they can't handle it - they'd have to re-adjust yet another stupid belief system that fills every page of the Bible.


"A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb.

Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure.

This is the first time, however, that scientists have used brain scanners to try to look for the source of those differences.

A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.

When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.

In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.

A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.

In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.

The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.

The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by "learned" effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.

'Fight, flight or mate'

Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.

"As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," he said.

The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in "orientating", or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus - be it during the "fight or flight" response, or the presence of a potential mate.

"In other words, the brain network which determines what sexual orientation actually 'orients' towards is similar between gay men and straight women, and between gay women and straight men.

"This makes sense given that gay men have a sexual preference which is like that of women in general, that is, preferring men, and vice versa for lesbian women."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm
http://playthink.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/the-gay-brain/
http://www.pnas.org/content/102/20/7356.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=%2522Ivanka+Savic%2522&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

The fact that this is even a debate any more is yet another reason that religion holds the entire human race back in a moral and ethical stone age.

[3LB]

I'm with Hyfi - for too long issues like sexual orientation and abortion have taken up way too much of our political agend. Don't like abortions, don't get one. Don't like gay marriage, don't marry a homosexual.

[Feanor]

I'm with Hyfi - for too long issues like sexual orientation and abortion have taken up way too much of our political agend. Don't like abortions, don't get one. Don't like gay marriage, don't marry a homosexual.
That's so true, isn't it? But some people feel they have to control other people's personal morality. More to the point, some politicians like to flog simple, moral issues instead of difficult, economic issues to ignorant voters.

[RGA]

I'm with Hyfi - for too long issues like sexual orientation and abortion have taken up way too much of our political agend. Don't like abortions, don't get one. Don't like gay marriage, don't marry a homosexual.

Hahah - I don't know if you meant to be funny but I found that hilarious. :lol:

[JohnMichael]

I like this Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaeeKbZibOM&feature=related

[Robert-The-Rambler]

If you truly believe in what you think you are in what you believe is your identity then you simply would not choose to end your life. The real story behind this whole mess is why the student chose to kill himself. The embarassment alone of the invasion of privacy simply cannot be enough to bring on a suicide attempt.

All this talk I hear about buillying in the media and whether or not it should be a crime makes me puke. At some point you have to take a stand for yourself and if it means kicking some ass than do it. Legislation is not intended to micromanage our lives.

[JohnMichael]

If you truly believe in what you think you are in what you believe is your identity then you simply would not choose to end your life. The real story behind this whole mess is why the student chose to kill himself. The embarassment alone of the invasion of privacy simply cannot be enough to bring on a suicide attempt.

All this talk I hear about buillying in the media and whether or not it should be a crime makes me puke. At some point you have to take a stand for yourself and if it means kicking some ass than do it. Legislation is not intended to micromanage our lives.


Your response makes me puke. Have you been bullied? Did it happen in your early teen years? Did you have to face it every school day for years? Did it happen in front of thousands of your classmates? I will be interested in your response.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Your response makes me puke. Have you been bullied? Did it happen in your early teen years? Did you have to face it every school day for years? Did it happen in front of thousands of your classmates? I will be interested in your response.

How the hell do you plan on stopping the bullying? It starts with you and when it gets serious enough you have to get your family and friends involved and if it gets into real criminal behavior you have to notify the police. Things only get worse when you don't handle them quickly. I never dealt with long term bullying. I'm generally easy to get along with. A baseball teammate of mine was giving me a hard time in middle school years ago and would do stuff like steal my lunch or kick me out of my seat. I stole some of his lunch got detention saying that the fries tasted good and then I proceeded to outplay him and steal the starting centerfield position. Naturally he was no longer a problem. If fact he said probably the most interesting thing to me years later when I happen to see him in a supermarket. He wondered if I was still playing ball and I said just softball and he said man I thought you were going pro. It just drives me crazy when somebody kills themself. A movie like Better Off Dead comes to mind. There is just so many things worth living for. And there are worse things than getting an intimate encounter broadcast on the web. How bout not having an intimate encounter to get broadcast? I think Yes is wrong about being an owner of a lonely heart. That sucks even worse. I kept to myself in high school and I heard the whispers about being gay or whatever but I never let that stuff get to me.

Sometimes a good fight is all you need to restore your confidence. A "George McFly" moment if you understand I think is what everybody needs to get their confident juices flowing. It doesn't necessarily have to be a physical altercation. I almost got in a fight in a religious education class when some kid called me meek because I was soft spoken in the classes. I hated that religious crap so it was amazing that I even kept my eyes open much less could speak loudly enough. I can't remember the conversation with the Sisters after the incident. Nobody should ever kill themself. It really is a sin and the pain it causes to the ones who love you is everlasting. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. But it is not a perfect world.

[dean_martin]

If you truly believe in what you think you are in what you believe is your identity then you simply would not choose to end your life.

The embarassment alone of the invasion of privacy simply cannot be enough to bring on a suicide attempt.

Legislation is not intended to micromanage our lives.

1. There are many historical examples of suicides for cause, i.e., the taking of one's own life to demonstrate a strong belief for or against something, so your generalization in your first statement is false. (I certainly don't condone such conduct, but its existence proves that your statement is too broad.)

2. Your second statement quoted above is an erroneous declaration of an absolute truth without any substantial proof - a declaration for which there probably won't be any direct proof for or against because the only person who could support or refute your statement is no longer with us. We can however interview those who knew him best and research and compare prior similar incidents to attempt to infer conclusions. My hypothesis prior to conducting such interviews and research would be that an involuntary public revelation of sexual conduct historically criticized and demonized in this country could probably (more likely than not) give rise to suicidal ideation. Couple that revelation with constant harassment, intimidation, etc. based on sexual preference, if such occurred, and the chance of acting on that suicidal ideation more than likely increases.

3. Your third statement is another generalization. The content of individual statutes determines whether our lives are being micromanaged in the particular area addressed by the statute. Criminal statutes that enhance penalties for crimes motivated by differences in race, gender and sexual preference attach to conduct that is already deemed a crime. Commit a crime worthy of incarceration and your ass will be micromanaged. "Bullying" probably takes many forms many of which are already criminalized and some of which we probably haven't seen yet. I'm not sure we can reach all forms with criminal statutes but we should be vigilant in protecting people from harm.

On a personal note, my disdain for governmental micromanagement is pretty much limited to consumerism. I'd like to be able to buy the same stuff in my state that others can. I have no desire to "bully", intimidate or harass anyone.

[JohnMichael]

How the hell do you plan on stopping the bullying? It starts with you and when it gets serious enough you have to get your family and friends involved and if it gets into real criminal behavior you have to notify the police. Things only get worse when you don't handle them quickly. I never dealt with long term bullying. I'm generally easy to get along with. A baseball teammate of mine was giving me a hard time in middle school years ago and would do stuff like steal my lunch or kick me out of my seat. I stole some of his lunch got detention saying that the fries tasted good and then I proceeded to outplay him and steal the starting centerfield position. Naturally he was no longer a problem. If fact he said probably the most interesting thing to me years later when I happen to see him in a supermarket. He wondered if I was still playing ball and I said just softball and he said man I thought you were going pro. It just drives me crazy when somebody kills themself. A movie like Better Off Dead comes to mind. There is just so many things worth living for. And there are worse things than getting an intimate encounter broadcast on the web. How bout not having an intimate encounter to get broadcast? I think Yes is wrong about being an owner of a lonely heart. That sucks even worse. I kept to myself in high school and I heard the whispers about being gay or whatever but I never let that stuff get to me.

Sometimes a good fight is all you need to restore your confidence. A "George McFly" moment if you understand I think is what everybody needs to get their confident juices flowing. It doesn't necessarily have to be a physical altercation. I almost got in a fight in a religious education class when some kid called me meek because I was soft spoken in the classes. I hated that religious crap so it was amazing that I even kept my eyes open much less could speak loudly enough. I can't remember the conversation with the Sisters after the incident. Nobody should ever kill themself. It really is a sin and the pain it causes to the ones who love you is everlasting. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. But it is not a perfect world.



You are obviously unaware of how severe bullying can be. As a young gay teen it is usually not about lunches stolen but about many in your class turning against you. While trying to figure out why your feelings and desires are so different from your friends on top of starting puberty and dealing with those changes you become the object of ridicule and hate. Sure run for help but to whom. Will your parents reject you? As we know some parents reject their gay children. You might go to a teacher who due to their own bias may be less than helfpful.

When you face that much revulsion every day and sometimes for years you find yourself questioning if all those students can be wrong. Maybe I am what they say I am. Maybe I would be better off dead. You would be surprised what dealing with all that ugliness will do to your thought process. But after all you had a lunch stolen.

[ForeverAutumn]

If you truly believe in what you think you are in what you believe is your identity then you simply would not choose to end your life.

I have to say that I think that you are wrong about that. If you truly believe in your identity, and you also believe that society is full of bigots who will never accept you for who you know you are, I think that suicide is a rational solution. Why would anyone want to live in a world where they believe that they will never be accepted and they are ridiculed and picked-on regularly for who they KNOW they are. That person knows that he will never change. And he also knows that the bigots and bullies are not likely to ever change. The question becomes, can he lead a happy life? And if not, is the life that he will lead, worth living?


All this talk I hear about buillying in the media and whether or not it should be a crime makes me puke. At some point you have to take a stand for yourself and if it means kicking some ass than do it.

Not everyone has the strength to stand up for themselves. This was a young man in college. He may not have had the depth of experience and self-assurance required to stand up to his abusers. And bullies are abusers.


Legislation is not intended to micromanage our lives.
You're right. Legislation is, however, intended to protect citizens.


It really is a sin and the pain it causes to the ones who love you is everlasting. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness.
I happen to not agree with that statement, but let's assume that its true. Just imagine how tormented a person must be to want to end his or her life. Happy people don't commit suicide.

Whether or not this boy committed suicide doesn't change the fact that the people who video taped him and played it on the internet, broke laws and infringed on this boy's rights. If this was done solely because he is gay, I believe that a hate crime was committed. His death just makes it better fodder for the media, but it doesn't change the crime.

[Hyfi]

It's a biological 100% FACT that it is not a choice.

It's not a choice - but try and tell the fanatics this. Because gee if it IS Biology which it IS, then that means homosexuals were BORN that way and if they were BORN that way in God's image then God might just be a homosexual drag queen. I would soooo love it if he was. The looks on the nutters faces at the Pearly Gates (which might explain why they're pearly) would be so awesome.

In certain ways the gay brain could be argued to be evolutionarily superior to the heterosexual brain (and has been argued by some) and while that is a bit of a leap it has some credibility.

Regardless Homosexuality is NOT a choice - they were born that way - and that's a problem for religion because that means God made them that way on purpose. So they can't handle it - they'd have to re-adjust yet another stupid belief system that fills every page of the Bible.


"A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb.

Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure.

This is the first time, however, that scientists have used brain scanners to try to look for the source of those differences.

A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.

When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.

In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.

A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.

In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.

The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.

The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by "learned" effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.

'Fight, flight or mate'

Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.

"As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," he said.

The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in "orientating", or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus - be it during the "fight or flight" response, or the presence of a potential mate.

"In other words, the brain network which determines what sexual orientation actually 'orients' towards is similar between gay men and straight women, and between gay women and straight men.

"This makes sense given that gay men have a sexual preference which is like that of women in general, that is, preferring men, and vice versa for lesbian women."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm
http://playthink.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/the-gay-brain/
http://www.pnas.org/content/102/20/7356.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=%2522Ivanka+Savic%2522&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

The fact that this is even a debate any more is yet another reason that religion holds the entire human race back in a moral and ethical stone age.

Have not looked at this thread for a few days but just read this response.

Just this morning NPR News had a clip of some fanatical Black pastor/minister-whatever that was preaching about how bad being gay is and that you deserve to die if your gay and that if you believe yourself to be gay you are calling God a liar because he did not create gay people, only heteros.

The whole pc was about the fact that largely or all black congregations routinely preach and demoralize gays, and have a don't ask-don't tell policy from it's members so if one is gay and at that church, they have to listen to their own leader trash talk them.

The Book is NOT meant to be read or taken literally. It is all messages and correspondences and open for multiple interpretations.

I have really had it with fanatical religion. In this case, the fanatical Christians are no better than the fanatical Muslims. The Christians terrorize people going to clinics, they even bomb the places and kill the doctors. How the heck does that make any sense of what is supposedly taught in the Book?

[3LB]

I never got the hatred for gay people. I don't pretend to be a crusader for gay rights or have a bunch of gay friends, afaik. I don't pretend to be entirely comfortable around gay couples who are very demonstrative, but then again, I don't like public displays of affection gay or straight.

I was in a bar in Bellingham, WA right after I got out of the Navy. It was a straight bar, but in close proximitey to the college, so there was a contingency of gay and lesbian there as well. I was there with some buddies (who were still in the Navy) on a Saturday and for about the third time in the same bar, I got hit on by a guy. I wasn't offended, as this was the umpteenth time its happened to me (lots of closeted gays in the Navy). This time the dude, though younger than me (I believed) was a tad bit pushy. He was with a "couple" and those two guys were into the PDAs (I think they were also egging their young friend on - the guy eventually to me anyway). One of my buddies saw this happen and he wanted to go raise hell with these guys. He was also discusted with me because I didn't punch the guy who hit on me. On our way out, he tried to call-out the gay guys, he yelled across the bar towards the bartender, "we wouldn't have come here if we knew you let *****s in here". I got mad at him told him to chill the fvck out and shoved me and said, "a guy puts his hand on yer ass and your all smiles, but you tell me to chill?" Then he told me he didn't know I was a f*g and I was lucky I was already out of the Navy. A couple of the other guys with us were perplexed by his behavior, but didn't really admonish him either. Worse yet, the furor the dude was stirring up some of the locals who began flipping the gay guys some crap (they left before we did) That was the last time I saw any of them, and I actually had what I thght was a good friendship with a couple of them.

The point is that no one should have to withdraw into seclusion or pretend to be something they're not just too avoid maltreatment. I don't know of any heterosexual couples who've been in danger of being beaten for PDAs. I don't know any homosexual groups responsible for social attrocities or crimes against humanity. I don't get the fear.

The problem with intolerence and hatred is that when left to fester and grow with no attempt to quell or educate it, it will eventually spill over onto those who think they don't have a 'horse in that race'. Indifference fuels intolerence and neutrality is no shield; the haters don't trust anyone but themselves.

Hatecrime treatment isn't about micro-management, its about education. We need to extricate biggotry out of our society and we do that through education, because after all, we're education into biggotry in the first place.

[Hyfi]

One of my buddies saw this happen and he wanted to go raise hell with these guys. He was also discusted with me because I didn't punch the guy who hit on me. On our way out, he tried to call-out the gay guys, he yelled across the bar towards the bartender, "we wouldn't have come here if we knew you let *****s in here". I got mad at him told him to chill the fvck out and shoved me and said, "a guy puts his hand on yer ass and your all smiles, but you tell me to chill?" Then he told me he didn't know I was a f*g and I was lucky I was already out of the Navy. A couple of the other guys with us were perplexed by his behavior, but didn't really admonish him either. Worse yet, the furor the dude was stirring up some of the locals who began flipping the gay guys some crap (they left before we did) That was the last time I saw any of them, and I actually had what I thght was a good friendship with a couple of them.



This kind of behavior is typical of males who think they have to act that way to look a certain way but in most cases they are actually suppressing their own curiosity by overcompensating the macho act.

[Hyfi]

Here is another whacked issue
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/10/06/supreme-court-hears-challenge-to-westboro-protest-at-marines-fu/

These whackos claim that all deaths in the war are Gods way of punishing us for gays.

From the link

"The father of a Marine killed in Iraq has asked the court to reinstate a $5 million judgment against the Rev. Fred Phelps and other church members who picketed his son's funeral, carrying signs saying "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates ***s." Phelps and his followers were not arguing that the man being buried was gay, but that war deaths are God's punishment of a country that tolerates homosexuality."

[GMichael]

This world is full of some frickin sick @ss people for sure.

[ForeverAutumn]

A friend of my put this link on his Facebook page. A beautifully written piece about growing up gay, and just a great outlook on life for anyone to subscribe to...

"Go without hate, but not without rage. Heal the world."
by David Tomlinson on Wednesday, October 6, 2010 at 2:26am

I was routinely beat up and bullied in my rural high school. Called '***got' and '*****' by the bulk of my classmates, it became very clear to me that being gay was the worst thing a man could possibly be. These sentiments were echoed by my homophobic father (who flew into a rage concerning homosexuality in my teenage years, screaming that it was a mental illness and a perversion), by my church (where I was teaching Sunday School), and by the world at large. "It's humiliating to be gay," I wrote in my diary, "It's like... David's a loser, but you don't know how big of a loser he is until you know he's gay."

At 21, having finally conceded that I was *****, I vowed that I would keep it a secret, live my entire life single and die alone, as I could not come to terms with the great shame I assumed I would bring upon my family if I ever disclosed. By 25, this decision had started to crumble, and I started telling people.

The first person I told was my best friend Hillary. I sat her down, and said that I had something to tell her. She asked if I was gay, I told her no, but there was a good chance I was bisexual. She calmly laid her hand on my knee and said "No... you're gay, David. You're gay."

When I dropped the gay bomb on my apparently unsuspecting mother (she was convinced my brother was gay, not me), she sat in silence for 45 seconds, then turned and asked "How can I support you in this?"

I was very lucky to have so many incredible people so close.

My own process of coming out spilled into and defined my late twenties. As I told more and more people, there was a curious underlining fury with which I claimed my sexuality. Paul Monette's quote "Go without hate, but not without rage. Heal the world." was especially potent for me, as it perfectly encapsulated how I felt. As I moved further into my life, there was a sense of outrage at the persecution my tribe had suffered at the hands of the ignorant and the fear-ridden. I simply could not come to terms with opposing points of view which regarded me as a great perversion. I knew myself to be a man of great quality; I reasoned that the pursuit of life, love, happiness, success, adventure, evolution, discovery... they are not straight desires or gay desires, but human desires.

After spending so many years trapped in the closet, nothing was going to send me back in. Not even my career; which I suspect would have been much different were I straight. Encouraged by my improv teacher Moira Dunphy to continue tackling gay themes onstage, I publicly embraced my sexuality, was in Canada's first ***** sketch duo (Glyph with the ever-awesome Lex Vaughn), and took my ***** comedy into straight comedy houses. It was freeing and powerful, and since that time I have blossomed into a wonderful and fearless writer, performer, and person.

Recently, there has been a rash of suicides by gay youth across the USA and Canada. When I was a teenager, it was happening then; twenty years later, it's still happening. ***** teens are still four times as likely to kill themselves than straight teens. Where is the change? The progress? Those statistics should be dropping, no? Demonstrating a progress, an evolution of attitudes?

I live in a very cozy circle of forward-thinking advocates, rebel bohemians, artists, and activists; it's easy to think things have changed, that people are more enlightened. However, I still to this day don't have to travel very far to get slapped across the face with homophobia. It's everywhere, this prevailing attitude that because I am gay I am somehow less than. And I confess, I forgot that no matter how cool my friends are, no matter how well-adjusted I am, homophobia is still killing kids.

It's time to take action. I cannot tell you what you need to do, what action you need to take. I am struggling to find those same answers for myself. We live in a world where people just want to blend in, wear the right clothes, do the right things, make the right choices. We live in a world where homogenization is encouraged, where having a point of view is becoming a radical political act.

Maybe that's the answer; in the face of all this Orwellian beige, of these prevailing conservative attitudes, there has never been a more important time to be who you really are. To let your freak flag fly, let your differences shine. Get that tattoo. Quit your job and pursue what it is you want to do. Wear your heart on your sleeve. Love who you want to love. Be vocal. Have an opinion. Reach out. Demonstrate, showcase, and celebrate what makes you, you.

Diversity is more than sexuality. Diversity covers all our human intricacies. The more we try to erase or ignore these differences, the less human we become. To be human is to be diverse, and spectacularly so. In a diverse world, the diverse feel welcome and supported. Let us redefine and celebrate our diversity and our humanity. Let us embrace and welcome our differences.

To all the members of my tribe, young or old, to those who feel different, that they have no place, who are feeling less than wonderful, know that you are. You are each magnificent beyond measure. You are not alone. Know that the brighter you shine, the better the world is.

To those we have recently and heartbreakingly lost; I am sorry to have never met you. I am sorry your time was so short. I am sorry that you never felt embraced or valued. Most of all, I'm sorry that the world will not have the chance to revel in your magnificence any longer. You are fallen, but not forgotten.

[JohnMichael]

A friend of my put this link on his Facebook page. A beautifully written piece about growing up gay, and just a great outlook on life for anyone to subscribe to...

"Go without hate, but not without rage. Heal the world."
by David Tomlinson on Wednesday, October 6, 2010 at 2:26am

I was routinely beat up and bullied in my rural high school. Called '***got' and '*****' by the bulk of my classmates, it became very clear to me that being gay was the worst thing a man could possibly be. These sentiments were echoed by my homophobic father (who flew into a rage concerning homosexuality in my teenage years, screaming that it was a mental illness and a perversion), by my church (where I was teaching Sunday School), and by the world at large. "It's humiliating to be gay," I wrote in my diary, "It's like... David's a loser, but you don't know how big of a loser he is until you know he's gay."

At 21, having finally conceded that I was *****, I vowed that I would keep it a secret, live my entire life single and die alone, as I could not come to terms with the great shame I assumed I would bring upon my family if I ever disclosed. By 25, this decision had started to crumble, and I started telling people.

The first person I told was my best friend Hillary. I sat her down, and said that I had something to tell her. She asked if I was gay, I told her no, but there was a good chance I was bisexual. She calmly laid her hand on my knee and said "No... you're gay, David. You're gay."

When I dropped the gay bomb on my apparently unsuspecting mother (she was convinced my brother was gay, not me), she sat in silence for 45 seconds, then turned and asked "How can I support you in this?"

I was very lucky to have so many incredible people so close.

My own process of coming out spilled into and defined my late twenties. As I told more and more people, there was a curious underlining fury with which I claimed my sexuality. Paul Monette's quote "Go without hate, but not without rage. Heal the world." was especially potent for me, as it perfectly encapsulated how I felt. As I moved further into my life, there was a sense of outrage at the persecution my tribe had suffered at the hands of the ignorant and the fear-ridden. I simply could not come to terms with opposing points of view which regarded me as a great perversion. I knew myself to be a man of great quality; I reasoned that the pursuit of life, love, happiness, success, adventure, evolution, discovery... they are not straight desires or gay desires, but human desires.

After spending so many years trapped in the closet, nothing was going to send me back in. Not even my career; which I suspect would have been much different were I straight. Encouraged by my improv teacher Moira Dunphy to continue tackling gay themes onstage, I publicly embraced my sexuality, was in Canada's first ***** sketch duo (Glyph with the ever-awesome Lex Vaughn), and took my ***** comedy into straight comedy houses. It was freeing and powerful, and since that time I have blossomed into a wonderful and fearless writer, performer, and person.

Recently, there has been a rash of suicides by gay youth across the USA and Canada. When I was a teenager, it was happening then; twenty years later, it's still happening. ***** teens are still four times as likely to kill themselves than straight teens. Where is the change? The progress? Those statistics should be dropping, no? Demonstrating a progress, an evolution of attitudes?

I live in a very cozy circle of forward-thinking advocates, rebel bohemians, artists, and activists; it's easy to think things have changed, that people are more enlightened. However, I still to this day don't have to travel very far to get slapped across the face with homophobia. It's everywhere, this prevailing attitude that because I am gay I am somehow less than. And I confess, I forgot that no matter how cool my friends are, no matter how well-adjusted I am, homophobia is still killing kids.

It's time to take action. I cannot tell you what you need to do, what action you need to take. I am struggling to find those same answers for myself. We live in a world where people just want to blend in, wear the right clothes, do the right things, make the right choices. We live in a world where homogenization is encouraged, where having a point of view is becoming a radical political act.

Maybe that's the answer; in the face of all this Orwellian beige, of these prevailing conservative attitudes, there has never been a more important time to be who you really are. To let your freak flag fly, let your differences shine. Get that tattoo. Quit your job and pursue what it is you want to do. Wear your heart on your sleeve. Love who you want to love. Be vocal. Have an opinion. Reach out. Demonstrate, showcase, and celebrate what makes you, you.

Diversity is more than sexuality. Diversity covers all our human intricacies. The more we try to erase or ignore these differences, the less human we become. To be human is to be diverse, and spectacularly so. In a diverse world, the diverse feel welcome and supported. Let us redefine and celebrate our diversity and our humanity. Let us embrace and welcome our differences.

To all the members of my tribe, young or old, to those who feel different, that they have no place, who are feeling less than wonderful, know that you are. You are each magnificent beyond measure. You are not alone. Know that the brighter you shine, the better the world is.

To those we have recently and heartbreakingly lost; I am sorry to have never met you. I am sorry your time was so short. I am sorry that you never felt embraced or valued. Most of all, I'm sorry that the world will not have the chance to revel in your magnificence any longer. You are fallen, but not forgotten.



ForeverAutumn thank you so much for posting "Go without hate, but not without rage.Heal the world". I needed so much to read something positive and uplifting today. My heart and soul thank you!

[JohnMichael]

Keith Haring’s illustration for National Coming Out Day (Source:Keith Haring)National Coming Out Day was hailed as an essential day of recognition and support in the wake of a rash of GLTB youth suicides.

An Oct. 11 article at Syracuse.com traced the day’s beginnings to 23 years ago, in 1987. The day was initially meant to bolster GLBT visibility and mutual support in the face of the ongoing AIDS crisis. In 1987, an article about National Coming Out Day that is posted at the Human Rights Campaign’s website says, the NAMES Project Quilt was shown for the first time. The quilt is a giant textile made from individual panels that bear the names of AIDS victims. The date for National Coming Out Day commemorates the date of the 1987 March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights.

But this year’s observance in the LGBT community of National Coming Out Day, which is commemorated each Oct. 11, unfolds against an equally grim background: a plethora of suicides by gay teenagers who were reportedly the victims of anti-gay bullying and harassment.

"Coincidentally, today’s annual celebration falls one day after Republican gubernatorial candidate Carl Paladino stated his opposition to same-sex marriage during a speech before Orthodox Jewish leaders in Brooklyn," the article notes.

Paladino, a Catholic, cited the teachings of his faith on Oct. 11 in defending comments he had made the previous day to an audience in a Brooklyn synagogue. Paladino said that children should not be "brainwashed" at school into thinking that to be gay is okay.

On Oct. 11, Paladino backpedaled, saying on television that he has no problem with gays, outside of his conviction that marriage should be reserved as a special right for heterosexuals. Paladino also echoed the Catholic tenet that homosexuality is an inborn, innate characteristic and not a "choice," although acts of same-sex physical intimacy are condemned by the church as "inherently evil."

GLBT equality groups have condemned such rhetoric as possibly being a catalyst for tragedies in which GLBT youths kill themselves.

Suyracuse.com reported that Syracuse University’s LGBT Resource Center had scheduled films and discussions to address the topic of GLBT youth and their plight in the homophobic culture of many high schools, and American culture at large.

Similarly, film screenings and other events were scheduled to take place at Colorado College in Colorado Springs., Colo., noted local newspaper the Colorado Springs Independent in an Oct. 11 article. The newspaper noted that Coming Out Day is "a day not just for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning individuals to speak out about who they are, but also a day for allies to step up and be active voices." The article also addressed the role of affirming churches and people of faith: "With the large percentage of religious organizations in Colorado Springs, the topic is certainly worth discussing," the article said.

Colorado Springs is home to anti-gay organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Family Research Institute, but students at the college planned assorted activities in honor of National Coming Out Day, including a "Spiritual Journeys Luncheon" at the office of the school’s chaplain, and an "Ally Workshop."

Moreover, college GLBT equality group EQUAL volunteered to make videos of anyone wishing to record a supportive video message aimed at reassuring gay teens that might be contemplating suicide. The videos were meant to be shown to local support groups and possibly added to the "It Gets Better" project, a series of messages posted at YouTube in which celebrities and everyday people, gay and straight alike, appeal to gay youths not to despair.

The Village Voice offered a selection of personal stories in observance of National Coming Out Day. Among those contributing brief essays about their own coming out stories are Village Voice columnist Michael Musto, ***** Rising founding member Jake Goodman, and New York Times web producer Mekado Murphy.

[TheHills44060]

All this talk I hear about bullying in the media and whether or not it should be a crime makes me puke. At some point you have to take a stand for yourself and if it means kicking some ass than do it. Legislation is not intended to micromanage our lives.
Agreed 100%...

It works both ways. Bullies can be just as troubled as the bullied and commit suicide as well. Hell it happened in my school. Either way all this media about it is stupid.

[JohnMichael]

Agreed 100%...

It works both ways. Bullies can be just as troubled as the bullied and commit suicide as well. Hell it happened in my school. Either way all this media about it is stupid.



The media is covering an ongoing social problem that is costing young lives. The info from the media is educating parents and the public about the many ways children can be bullied. I guess if the media coverage is stupid then you want the bullying to continue.

[GMichael]

I plan to have my little girl learn martial arts. I know what it’s like to be the smallest in the class. I was only 120 pounds when I graduated HS. Bullies love to pick on the small ones. And Wifey is only 4’7”. Poor baby will need some help to be confident enough to stand up for herself.

[ForeverAutumn]

Agreed 100%...

It works both ways. Bullies can be just as troubled as the bullied and commit suicide as well. Hell it happened in my school. Either way all this media about it is stupid.

All the more reason to bring it to the forefront and deal with it. Brushing it under the rug as silly or stupid doesn't help anybody.

[Hyfi]

All the more reason to bring it to the forefront and deal with it. Brushing it under the rug as silly or stupid doesn't help anybody.

Maybe the real shame is that we even need media coverage about something that has been going on for how many years now?

Maybe we wouldn't need media coverage out the wazoo if parents actually paid some attention to their own children and their lives.

I was the victim of a bullying incident when I was pretty young. I finally snapped and took the kid out. He was bigger and stronger but not quite as mad. He never bothered me or anyone else I know of after that.

Legislation will not force parents and families to communicate, be aware of their surroundings, and deal with matters at hand when they come up.

More government and less personal responsibility is never the answer.

[TheHills44060]

...I guess if the media coverage is stupid then you want the bullying to continue.
OMG listen to yourself...that is an asinine statement. Do you really think I approve of bullying? Of course i don't.

I have been the victim of bully's, i have bullied others myself, i have stood up for the bullied, i have watched my friends bully others and done nothing about it. It goes on everyday in every school and every kid has to deal with it in one way or another.

All the more reason to bring it to the forefront and deal with it. Brushing it under the rug as silly or stupid doesn't help anybody.
I don't think brushing it under the rug is what i mean. My point is that bullying and suicides happen everyday. I think randomly deciding which tragedies to cover is stupid. I don't know what made this kid worthy of having a nationally covered story, cuz he way gay? who knows...



More government and less personal responsibility is never the answer.
Amen!

[Hyfi]

Has anyone mentioned the OTHER guy in the video?

Why did he not jump? They were both victims of the same bullying yet one handled it and one didn't.

I'm not belittling what happened but where is all the attention for the other victim in the video?

[JohnMichael]

Maybe the real shame is that we even need media coverage about something that has been going on for how many years now?

Maybe we wouldn't need media coverage out the wazoo if parents actually paid some attention to their own children and their lives.

I was the victim of a bullying incident when I was pretty young. I finally snapped and took the kid out. He was bigger and stronger but not quite as mad. He never bothered me or anyone else I know of after that.

Legislation will not force parents and families to communicate, be aware of their surroundings, and deal with matters at hand when they come up.

More government and less personal responsibility is never the answer.


I think the point many are missing is this is not one on one bullying. This issue involves a large number of classmates are turning against one student. Now a days there is no safe place. They bully with text messages, e-mail, etc and 24 hours a day. These young people have no peace. If the victim is gay they will be less likely to seek help.

[Hyfi]

I think the point many are missing is this is not one on one bullying. This issue involves a large number of classmates are turning against one student. Now a days there is no safe place. They bully with text messages, e-mail, etc and 24 hours a day. These young people have no peace. If the victim is gay they will be less likely to seek help.

And again I point to the family, parents, open communication, and being aware of your surroundings.

If the parents never noticed any tendencies as their children grow up, they are not paying enough attention. It's not hard to spot.

If they see it and choose to ignore it because they are embarrassed or don't except it, shame on them.

The main issue at hand is that ALL peoples choices should be respected and tolerated by everyone AND the CHURCH, who controls what people think as well as a lot of what is in the media.

When you have an organization as large as organized religion telling everyone that an all loving god will strike you down for being whoever you were born, there is a bigger problem than bullying going on.

[JohnMichael]

Has anyone mentioned the OTHER guy in the video?

Why did he not jump? They were both victims of the same bullying yet one handled it and one didn't.

I'm not belittling what happened but where is all the attention for the other victim in the video?


The other young man may have been out and comfortable with his sexual orientation. He may not have been a student and so was not feeling victimized. Too many variables to know.

[Hyfi]

The other young man may have been out and comfortable with his sexual orientation. He may not have been a student and so was not feeling victimized. Too many variables to know.

He should at least get a mention as he was also victimized no matter what his comfort level may have been.

[JohnMichael]

It goes on everyday in every school and every kid has to deal with it in one way or another.



Amen!


Then let us do nothing. Let the children suffer, kill themselves and family and friends mourn.

[Hyfi]

Then let us do nothing. Let the children suffer, kill themselves and family and friends mourn.

The something that needs to be done is that parents start taking full responsibility for the beings that they bring into this world.

Children don't ask to be born. ( I got many a backhand to the face for that one too )

[TheHills44060]

Then let us do nothing. Let the children suffer, kill themselves and family and friends mourn.
People of all age ranges from all walks of life kill themselves...not just children and young people. Hmmm does your statement mean you approve of suicide as long as they aren't children!?!? Now you see how stupid your earlier remark to me was...you need to take off your blinders man.

[JohnMichael]

The something that needs to be done is that parents start taking full responsibility for the beings that they bring into this world.

Children don't ask to be born. ( I got many a backhand to the face for that one too )



Again I say the media is needed to educate the parents as to what to watch for and how the children can be bullied. We have had much media coverage about bullied students who bring guns to school and blow the bullies away. Media brought attention to this problem and now it has lessened the number of incidents. If the media attention saves just one young life it will be worth it.

[JohnMichael]

People of all age ranges from all walks of life kill themselves...not just children and young people. Hmmm does your statement mean you approve of suicide as long as they aren't children!?!? Now you see how stupid your earlier remark to me was...you need to take off your blinders man.


This thread has been and will continue to be about bullying. The suicides I am discussing are about victims of bullying. Victims who are not mature and do not have a strong sense of self.

[Hyfi]

Again I say the media is needed to educate the parents as to what to watch for and how the children can be bullied. We have had much media coverage about bullied students who bring guns to school and blow the bullies away. Media brought attention to this problem and now it has lessened the number of incidents. If the media attention saves just one young life it will be worth it.

And if people keep pumping out children who they don't plan to pay any attention to, media coverage won't do much.

Why do adults need media coverage to tell them that bullying exists. Was it non-existent when they grew up? I don't think so.

The bottom line is people keep pumping out babies with no thought about how to properly raise them. How to pay attention to them. How to pick up on signs that are smacking them in the face daily.

I'm not going to say that there should be no media coverage as it is indeed news and we all know people watch the news to see the puddles of blood, the shell casings in the street, the yellow police tape and so on. So of course they want to hear all the bad news, maybe it helps them feel better knowing others are worse off.

Bottom line is people, adults and parents have to start taking full responsibility for their own actions, which include bringing helpless and defenseless children into the world.

My parents knew where I was, who I was with, what I was doing (for the most part). My mother would show up to see if I was actually where I said I was. Most parents don't even know where there kids are or if they are at home or not. As long as they don't have to do anything they don't care. That is until something like this happens and then it's "I had no clue little johnny was having problems in school". Yeah right, pay some attention once in a while and it would have been obvious.

[JohnMichael]

And if people keep pumping out children who they don't plan to pay any attention to, media coverage won't do much.

Why do adults need media coverage to tell them that bullying exists. Was it non-existent when they grew up? I don't think so.

The bottom line is people keep pumping out babies with no thought about how to properly raise them. How to pay attention to them. How to pick up on signs that are smacking them in the face daily.

I'm not going to say that there should be no media coverage as it is indeed news and we all know people watch the news to see the puddles of blood, the shell casings in the street, the yellow police tape and so on. So of course they want to hear all the bad news, maybe it helps them feel better knowing others are worse off.

Bottom line is people, adults and parents have to start taking full responsibility for their own actions, which include bringing helpless and defenseless children into the world.

My parents knew where I was, who I was with, what I was doing (for the most part). My mother would show up to see if I was actually where I said I was. Most parents don't even know where there kids are or if they are at home or not. As long as they don't have to do anything they don't care. That is until something like this happens and then it's "I had no clue little johnny was having problems in school". Yeah right, pay some attention once in a while and it would have been obvious.


I had a very attentive mother but I was a good actor. The last thing I wanted her to know was that I was being bullied because I was gay. I had read about families rejecting their children when they learned they were gay. Being spit on, punched and verbally abused at every class change by multiple students made for many lousy years at school. I considered suicide. She was a single mother and I did not want her to worry about me with all the other things she had to worry about. Secrets and more concern for her kept me trapped. No one at the school ever tried to help even though it was obvious what was happening. When adults witness abuse and do nothing that is a very negative message to the victim.

[Hyfi]

When adults witness abuse and do nothing that is a very negative message to the victim.

John, I appreciate your situation and understand, but your last sentence says it all.

Media coverage will not change that fact if Adults still turn their heads, parents, teachers or any other.

There is a huge lacking of 3 very important behaviors in the world. From the Dali Lama's book titled The Art of Happiness, I took away the appreciation for the following:

Compassion
Tolerance
Forgiveness

If everyone would start to incorporate these 3 simple things into their life, we would not need legislation or news media to change things.

But then again, it would mean that people have to be responsible for their own actions and influence others by those same actions.

[ForeverAutumn]

Education and awareness are powerful tools. I think that this young man's death was tragic...regardless of his reasons for taking his life, it is tragic that he felt that was his only way out of whatever situation he believed he was in.

But I have seen some wonderful things come out of this. I have seen people showing support and tolerance. I have heard the public outcry over this young man's death. And, this morning I saw this on my niece's Facebook status...

‎1 in every 10 people born is gay. That means 1 in every 10 people is likely to be put down, given bad labels, left alone, put in the minority, and so much else, for something they didn't ask for. Many gay teens are turning to suicide as a way of escaping. If you want to tell them that life will get better, and you respect them for who they are, copy and paste this. Most of you won't, but let's see who will.

My niece is a great kid and I am proud as hell of her for this and for so many more reasons. But what I love about this is that she is 14. She has over 400 FB friends who are mostly her age. If just one of those FB friends is hiding his or her homosexuality and reads her status, it might help. That's powerful. And it's because of this recent tragedy that it's happening.

People can sit back and do nothing, or they can try to create a silver lining. I'd like to think that the media attention that this case is being given is contributing to the silver lining. There is so much hate in the world. We're surrounded by it every single day. Let's look for the positive and try to find ways to make the world a better place.