New Music Servers from Cambridge Audio, Rotel, Marantz and Olive

[Ajani]

For anyone thinking about taking the plunge into music servers, there are now 4 new sub $1K options from Cambridge Audio, Rotel, Marantz and Olive.


Cambridge Audio has the $650 Sonata NP30 Network Music Player:

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/654494.html


Rotel has the $1K RDG1520:

http://www.rotel.com/NA/Products/ProductDetails.htm?id=498


Marantz has the $800 NA7004:

http://us.marantz.com/Products/3298.asp


Olive has the $1K O3HD:

http://www.olive.us/products/music_servers/olive3hd/overview.html

[pixelthis]

HERES' my problem with music "servers". They do what a three year old hundred dollar computer can do as well.
Basically you are paying for looks. In some cases they might not be as versatile as
an older computer. I see computers with 1.8 gig processors selling for as little as a
hundred bucks in the paper all of the time. For five hundred (and thats splurging) you
can build one to spec, there are even horizontal baby ATX cases you can buy.
So who needs a "server"? My current PC can do the job just fine, better probably.:1:

[GMichael]

Kapow! Pow pow pow!

[pixelthis]

AND SUPPORT for flac. Nice, but not the "amazing " advance the PR flak who wrote the article says it is, more like catching up, should have been done years ago. Guess they
got tired of being scared of the record companies, or maybe so much blood is being spilled
it hardly matters anymore.
The CAMBRIDGE is a nice "piece of kit" as the Brits say, but I THINK i'LL JUST ROLL MY OWN.
Pass.:1:

[kevlarus]

HERES' my problem with music "servers". They do what a three year old hundred dollar computer can do as well.
Basically you are paying for looks. In some cases they might not be as versatile as
an older computer. I see computers with 1.8 gig processors selling for as little as a
hundred bucks in the paper all of the time. For five hundred (and thats splurging) you
can build one to spec, there are even horizontal baby ATX cases you can buy.
So who needs a "server"? My current PC can do the job just fine, better probably.:1:


Too right. Even easier is if you have a wireless network and a blu-ray player wired/wireless so you can stream the music through the audio system from the PC. It's pretty sweet and not limited to music but can do movies/video as well.

$1000 for a PC (server) -- nope, wouldn't pay that these days

[Ajani]

Ummm Gents, the reason to consider any of those servers/streamers is not just convenience... a $300 Squeezebox Touch or a $50 used computer would make a convenient music server...

The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)...

[recoveryone]

Ummm Gents, the reason to consider any of those servers/streamers is not just convenience... a $300 Squeezebox Touch or a $50 used computer would make a convenient music server...

The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)...

Not sure what is the issue with your Squeezebox, the built in DAC's are on par with any mid-highend range system. It may be more of what type/format you have ripped your music. I did a side by side when I first purchased my Squeezebox 3/Classic and found that if you rip at a level of 320kps or higher you will be very hard press to tell the differences between the CD. That was a blind test sitting in the sweet spot, having someone else do the switching on the same album. But again to each his/her own, I say why not go complete full bore and get the Transport from SlimDevice/logicTech and that way you can say I have the best of the best. and it still will depend on the level of Kps you ripped the music any way, but have the comfort of knowing I have the best.

Oh and you still need that old computer with these new DAR's minus the olive one and that sales pitch you better get your boots on, cause its getting deep.

[Mr Peabody]

Do any of the others have storage like the Olive? Olive mentions holding 1500 CD's but I didn't notice any storage mentioned in the other descriptions.

[Ajani]

Do any of the others have storage like the Olive? Olive mentions holding 1500 CD's but I didn't notice any storage mentioned in the other descriptions.

None of the others have storage, though they all can read files from a USB hard-drive... So you could just buy a USB Hard-drive (really cheap) and use with them...

[Ajani]

Not sure what is the issue with your Squeezebox, the built in DAC's are on par with any mid-highend range system.

What mid-high end DAC have you compared it to? Based on both my own comparisons and all reviews I've read, the internal DAC is only on par with budget CD players... So nothing High end or even Mid level...


It may be more of what type/format you have ripped your music. I did a side by side when I first purchased my Squeezebox 3/Classic and found that if you rip at a level of 320kps or higher you will be very hard press to tell the differences between the CD. That was a blind test sitting in the sweet spot, having someone else do the switching on the same album. But again to each his/her own,

My music is ripped in Apple Lossless.


I say why not go complete full bore and get the Transport from SlimDevice/logicTech and that way you can say I have the best of the best. and it still will depend on the level of Kps you ripped the music any way, but have the comfort of knowing I have the best.

I could care less about the comfort of knowing I have the best... I am concerned with whether it sounds good to me... Also, the Transporter is not the best DAC in the world (though it is supposed to be very good)...


Oh and you still need that old computer with these new DAR's minus the olive one and that sales pitch you better get your boots on, cause its getting deep.

Ummm... OK....

[Feanor]

I'm ignorant about commercial streaming -- wish I knew more about it. I do know that my DLNA/UPnP-compliant Blu-ray will do some of that but I haven't given much thought to streaming movies. I don't know what's available in Canada at the moment though Netflix is here or will be shortly. Also, I have a $100 ASUS media player will do some of the same stuff as the Blu-ray. Right now I just use it to play videos stored on my Windows Home Server.

For serious listening on my stereo system I use a dedicated computer. This is an old Pentium 4 / WinXP machine with an M-Audio sound card and running Foobar2000 as music player. BTW, I nowadays prefer FLAC as a music format, but have plenty of stuff in other formats, including MP3 and ALAC, (Apple Lossless).

The long & short of it is I don't see myself getting one of these devices. The Cambridge looks as good as any as well as being cheapest. I have no interest in a device with built-in storage, such as the Olive, because I prefer to put in on the Windows server.

[Hyfi]

Do any of the others have storage like the Olive? Olive mentions holding 1500 CD's but I didn't notice any storage mentioned in the other descriptions.

With a 1 or 2 TB hard drive, you can rip way more CDs onto it in wav format and lose nothing from the original disk. With the price of Hard Drives these days, there is no real need to rip to a smaller file size accept for ipod type usage.

So a PC based server or even just a $200 2TB Mybook network drive streamed through a wireless blu ray player will work just the same except for the neat filing and playlist controls.

I actually like the look and convenience of the servers but can't justify buying one just to play my CDs without loading a CD into the player.

[E-Stat]

HERES' my problem with music "servers". They do what a three year old hundred dollar computer can do as well.
Actually, these models are simply "network players" (oops, the Olive is) and still require a back end server for music storage. These devices do, however, offer some advantages that others may find desirable. I use both approaches. Most of my CD library has been ripped and stored on my office computer. Since I use the computer's onboard DAC, it is hard wired via ten meter DIY 89259 interconnects to a Kenwood receiver left by the former owner of my house which powers a multi-room in ceiling music system. It works fine for background listening and works great for parties either inside or out by the back deck.

The first advantage of using a "network player" is that you don't necessarily have to have a desktop computer where you play music. I recently bought a Squeezebox Touch for the garage which leverages the content on that same office computer without having to put another computer in the garage. Also, you can place multiple SBs in other rooms all sharing the same library. The other advantage is they typically contain better DACs (units above) or allow for use with outboard DACs (which is what I do with the SB). The SB also supports USB storage (if you use a USB drive, you'll need an external power source) and SD cards for local storage. Very flexible.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/touch2.jpg

rw

[E-Stat]

...so you can stream the music through the audio system from the PC.
Interesting. While my Samsung BR player can stream Pandora, it does not have the capability to access my music library even with network access. What model of player do you use? Presumably, like my Squeezebox, it works in conjunction with software you place on your music server.

rw

[kevlarus]

Interesting. While my Samsung BR player can stream Pandora, it does not have the capability to access my music library even with network access. What model of player do you use? Presumably, like my Squeezebox, it works in conjunction with software you place on your music server.

rw


Actually, I don't need any extra software on the computer side other than turning on media sharing in media player 10 (running XP). It's Sony's 570 blu player and I was pleasantly surprised that it could grab video/music from the desktop, which is actually in another room. It can handle mp3, wma and wav files. Haven't tried ripping a dvd to the computer and playing it from the player yet.

[E-Stat]

It's Sony's 570 blu player and I was pleasantly surprised that it could grab video/music from the desktop, which is actually in another room.
Cool. I don't listen to music where I watch movies so that wasn't a feature I was looking for. I prefer having my desktop located elsewhere, too.

rw

[recoveryone]

I wired my setup digital from source to output, so less chance of drop in signal in my main system. for the Squeezebox's I have upstairs they are connected via RCA to the AVR's and I do hear the difference. and that may be that the gear upstairs is just not as good as the main system (speakers and all) IMHO your setup on your squeezebox is being over processed unnecessarily, that why I brought up the comment about the transport. From your posting you feel it will never sound good enough unless it has a brand name that you respect. If you read the olive ad info it even says that it only rip to the level of 320kps and that is what I stated as being the starting point of matching a CD, some like apple lossless or Windows lossless, so these DAR don't do anything above or beyond what your squeezebox is capable of doing. As I read each ad info they didn't spend much time on the playback ability of ripped music, but focus more on their ability to play internet channels and services, Just an observation, may mean nothing. Also I notice that the olive only had RCA outputs.

Audio outputs (general)
- Digital and analog outputs
- All RCA connectors are gold-plated
- Volume control is provided for all outputs
- Multiple outputs may be used at the same time

Analog RCA outputs
- High fidelity Burr-Brown™ 24-bit DAC
- Two dedicated linear power regulators for DAC and line-out stages
- Full 6.0Vpp line-level signals
- Signal-to-noise ratio: over 100dB
- Total harmonic distortion: less than -93.5dB (0.002%)
Digital S/PDIF outputs
- Optical and coax digital connections
- Dedicated high-precision crystal oscillators (no PLL, no resampling)
- Standard IEC-958 (S/PDIF) encoding
- Optical connector: TOSLINK 660nm
- Coax connector: RCA, 500mVpp into 75 ohms
- Sample rates: 44.1Khz, 48Khz
- Audio format: linear PCM, 16 or 24 bits per sample
- Intrinsic jitter: less than 50ps (standard deviation)
Headphone output
- Standard 1/8" jack also functions as an IR blaster
- Minimum headphone impedance: 16 ohms
- Total harmonic distortion: less than 0.03%
- Left/right crosstalk attenuation: 92dB
Audio formats
- Lossless Formats (Apple Lossless, FLAC, WMA Lossless)
o "Bit-perfect" CD audio streaming, with reduced storage and bandwidth usage.
o Approximately 2:1 compression ratio
- Uncompressed formats (AIFF, WAV, PCM)
o Supports raw pass-through of uncompressed PCM audio formats
o Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS
- Compressed formats (MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, MP2, MusePack, WMA)
o MPEG decoding uses MAD software, widely regarded as the most accurate, most compatible MP3 decoder.
o High accuracy 24-bit synthesis
o Supports all MP3 data rates and sample rates, including VBR
o May be streamed in PCM (raw), MP3 (transcoded), or FLAC (transcoded) formats
o Sound Check and Replay Gain support for automatic volume control.
o Some formats may require additional software installation (e.g. QuickTime), depending on platform.
Internet Radio
- "Always-on" Internet Radio, powered by SqueezeNetwork, lets you tune in to Internet Radio streams even when the home PC is switched off.
- Quick selection from hundreds of Internet Radio streams offered by Slim Devices' partners.
- Internet Radio favorites can be saved in a playlist for easy access.
- Displays song title information during playback
- Support for MP3, Ogg Vorbis, and WMA formatted Internet Radio streams
Architecture
- 250 MHz 8-way multithreaded RISC processor
- "Pure software" SlimDSP™ architecture
- Field-upgradeable Xilinx CPLD
- 64Mb high-speed RAM
- 16Mb program flash
- Low-power design, all solid-state, fanless

I think Burr Brown Dac's are still considered mid to highend Dac's,

Aphanetworks.com review July 2007



I for one listen often to an internet channel (last.Fm), mainly to find more artist that I may like to download later to my old P4 900Mhz 320 gig external HD running XP pro.
Cost factor:

Computer.......................Free (picked it up from local church that was upgrading)
External HD...................$50 (table sale at Staples)
PCI wireless card...........$5.00 (On Ebay)

Unlimited music listening via internet and my own collection covering from Motown to last weeks top 10 (my kids)

Priceless

[Hyfi]

Cool. I don't listen to music where I watch movies so that wasn't a feature I was looking for. I prefer having my desktop located elsewhere, too.

rw

Ah, multiple PCs are in order. I have a main office with three PCs and a network 2TB drive upstairs, but also have a PC attached to my main livingroom rig that allows me to use my tv as a 42 inch monitor and wireless mouse and keyboard from the sofa. I can then watch AVI movies or any other network accessible media through my stereo, HT setup or PC.

[recoveryone]

didn't want you to think I'm totally bias, here more from the same article

In terms of audio performance, I've heard better from other devices than the analog side. I've streamed uncompressed WAV files as well as FLACs using the Squeezebox, and to this can be compared to the original CD containing the same track. Performance is fairly good, but the high frequencies did not come out as high as expected, nor did the lows come out as distinct and solid as it did over digital connection on the Squeezebox itself.
Digital, on the other hand, seems to be very good on the Squeezebox -- which is usually not too limited to the device itself, since built in DACs are much more complex than a digital connection (It gets converted the analog later anyway, but that's up to the DAC on your receiver and not the Squeezebox). The sound is sharp, layered, separated and distinct between each instrument and the vocals are nice and clear when compared to analog connection. Everything comes in and blends together smoothly into one smooth performance -- but then again, if you don't want to be limited to the performance of the DACs used in a $300 device, I personally would definitely go the route of digital -- through this, the bottleneck effect will be less prominent. I guess what that really matters is that it sounds 'clean' enough over digital.
Therefore, it would be definitely more preferable for a coaxial or optical cable to be included out of the box rather than a RCA analog cable in my opinion. After all, most people who buy the Squeezebox probably have a receiver with digital inputs!

In general, Slim Devices' Squeezebox is quite an excellent product. Setup is extremely easy and almost flawless; and it's easy to use and the features are nice -- it does what it's meant to do -- to stream music. Wireless performance is pretty good; I noticed no drops and to the end user signals are consistent

[pixelthis]

None of the others have storage, though they all can read files from a USB hard-drive... So you could just buy a USB Hard-drive (really cheap) and use with them...

SO THEY ARE just an expensive computer without storage!.
A ONE TERAByte DRIVE and a DVD drive to load stuff with, a few hundred bucks extra.
HOW CHEAP.:1:

[Ajani]

I wired my setup digital from source to output, so less chance of drop in signal in my main system. for the Squeezebox's I have upstairs they are connected via RCA to the AVR's and I do hear the difference. and that may be that the gear upstairs is just not as good as the main system (speakers and all) IMHO your setup on your squeezebox is being over processed unnecessarily, that why I brought up the comment about the transport. From your posting you feel it will never sound good enough unless it has a brand name that you respect.

My posting is based on my experiencing actually using the Squeezebox's internal DAC and comparing it with an external DAC... What's your experience based on? Reading spec sheets? Have you ever tried a CD Player or DAC considered Mid-High end?

I am left to conclude that your believe all digital players (CD, Music streamers) etc sound the same... If that is so then you really should just state it...



If you read the olive ad info it even says that it only rip to the level of 320kps and that is what I stated as being the starting point of matching a CD, some like apple lossless or Windows lossless, so these DAR don't do anything above or beyond what your squeezebox is capable of doing. As I read each ad info they didn't spend much time on the playback ability of ripped music, but focus more on their ability to play internet channels and services, Just an observation, may mean nothing. Also I notice that the olive only had RCA outputs.
.................................................. ................................

- High fidelity Burr-Brown™ 24-bit DAC
- Two dedicated linear power regulators for DAC and line-out stages


.................................................. .......................................

I think Burr Brown Dac's are still considered mid to highend Dac's,

Aphanetworks.com review July 2007



I for one listen often to an internet channel (last.Fm), mainly to find more artist that I may like to download later to my old P4 900Mhz 320 gig external HD running XP pro.
Cost factor:

Computer.......................Free (picked it up from local church that was upgrading)
External HD...................$50 (table sale at Staples)
PCI wireless card...........$5.00 (On Ebay)

Unlimited music listening via internet and my own collection covering from Motown to last weeks top 10 (my kids)

Priceless

So essentially, you read the specs and see the Squeezebox has a burr brown DAC, therefore it sounds as good as any mid - high end DAC? OK then, no point arguing with you here... If you believe that then be happy that you never have to spend more than $300 for "high-end" sound quality...

[Ajani]

didn't want you to think I'm totally bias, here more from the same article

In terms of audio performance, I've heard better from other devices than the analog side. I've streamed uncompressed WAV files as well as FLACs using the Squeezebox, and to this can be compared to the original CD containing the same track. Performance is fairly good, but the high frequencies did not come out as high as expected, nor did the lows come out as distinct and solid as it did over digital connection on the Squeezebox itself.
Digital, on the other hand, seems to be very good on the Squeezebox -- which is usually not too limited to the device itself, since built in DACs are much more complex than a digital connection (It gets converted the analog later anyway, but that's up to the DAC on your receiver and not the Squeezebox). The sound is sharp, layered, separated and distinct between each instrument and the vocals are nice and clear when compared to analog connection. Everything comes in and blends together smoothly into one smooth performance -- but then again, if you don't want to be limited to the performance of the DACs used in a $300 device, I personally would definitely go the route of digital -- through this, the bottleneck effect will be less prominent. I guess what that really matters is that it sounds 'clean' enough over digital.
Therefore, it would be definitely more preferable for a coaxial or optical cable to be included out of the box rather than a RCA analog cable in my opinion. After all, most people who buy the Squeezebox probably have a receiver with digital inputs!

In general, Slim Devices' Squeezebox is quite an excellent product. Setup is extremely easy and almost flawless; and it's easy to use and the features are nice -- it does what it's meant to do -- to stream music. Wireless performance is pretty good; I noticed no drops and to the end user signals are consistent

Did you actually read that review? Do you realize it says exactly what I've said: The analog SOUND quality of the Squeezebox is nothing special... For audiophiles it is a great digital transport, but not a complete source...

[Ajani]

SO THEY ARE just an expensive computer without storage!.
A ONE TERAByte DRIVE and a DVD drive to load stuff with, a few hundred bucks extra.
HOW CHEAP.:1:

Pix these products (with exception of the Olive) are essentially Squeezeboxes (hopefully with better DACs and output stages)... So the reason to consider buying any of them is because they would have good sound quality... If you believe that all digital sounds the same, then you could just buy a Squeezebox or even better yet a used laptop and plug it directly into your stereo...

[E-Stat]

Ah, multiple PCs are in order. I have a main office with three PCs and a network 2TB drive upstairs, but also have a PC attached to my main livingroom rig that allows me to use my tv as a 42 inch monitor and wireless mouse and keyboard from the sofa. I can then watch AVI movies or any other network accessible media through my stereo, HT setup or PC.
Well, actually I have three: the main I7-860 in the office, a Core Duo P8400 laptop and an older Northwood P4 box upstairs as a data mirror for the main one. I really have no interest in having a desktop PC in the living room. I gave away older PCs.

rw

[recoveryone]

Did you actually read that review? Do you realize it says exactly what I've said: The analog SOUND quality of the Squeezebox is nothing special... For audiophiles it is a great digital transport, but not a complete source...

as you should have read how I have mine setup (full digital), I also said I can tell the differences from my analog ones upstairs from the one downstairs. You said that the Dac's used where only budget quality, and I posted the spec sheet to show you the quality of those Dac's being used. I also found a report on why the analog Dac's are weak and it has nothing to do with Burr Brown, but the power supply. It list a company that sales a upgraded power cord ($10.00) that allows the Dac's to reach their full potential. he use a $3k cd transport as the test comparison.

Now with that said you also have your unit connect via digital so your argument is mute.

Maybe you should read my own list of gear, the Elite line is considered a fairly good line. I didn't think I needed to point that out since its listed on every post I make. But I will play along and to let you know my CD is connected via toslink also same as the Squeezebox so my own test was completely fair. Music use was Earl Klugh acoustic guitar and ripped as WAV lossless. I would suggest you google Squeezebox upgrades and find that report and you may save yourself a dollars. $800 vs $10 power cord????? go figure.

Now we all appreciate you bringing this information about the DAR's, but as you can read for yourself not many of us can see the big advantage of these companies, and they have not taken any real steps in furthering the ability of DAR's to play music at reference level no matter the source. It appears they have seen the writing on the wall and now making an attempt to cash in on the growing market of digital playback systems.

[recoveryone]

Well, actually I have three: the main I7-860 in the office, a Core Duo P8400 laptop and an older Northwood P4 box upstairs as a data mirror for the main one. I really have no interest in having a desktop PC in the living room. I gave away older PCs.

rw

Not sure what your building setup is, but I place my server in the garage, so no extra noise or unsightly computer rig

[Ajani]

as you should have read how I have mine setup (full digital), I also said I can tell the differences from my analog ones upstairs from the one downstairs. You said that the Dac's used where only budget quality, and I posted the spec sheet to show you the quality of those Dac's being used. I also found a report on why the analog Dac's are weak and it has nothing to do with Burr Brown, but the power supply. It list a company that sales a upgraded power cord ($10.00) that allows the Dac's to reach their full potential. he use a $3k cd transport as the test comparison.

Now with that said you also have your unit connect via digital so your argument is mute.

Maybe you should read my own list of gear, the Elite line is considered a fairly good line. I didn't think I needed to point that out since its listed on every post I make. But I will play along and to let you know my CD is connected via toslink also same as the Squeezebox so my own test was completely fair. Music use was Earl Klugh acoustic guitar and ripped as WAV lossless. I would suggest you google Squeezebox upgrades and find that report and you may save yourself a dollars. $800 vs $10 power cord????? go figure.

So a $10 powercord is all that is needed to turn a Squeezebox into a High End source? How about if I just put a heavy rock on top of it to reduce vibrations, would that make it rival the $5K Berkley DAC?

(Also, the equipment in your signature is clear, which is why I asked my question... As "fairly good" as Elite products are, they're not generally regarded as high end)

Since you are using the digital out of your Squeezebox, then I don't understand why you think my setup is "over processed"... I use digital out to my DAC/preamp (which goes directly to my power amp)...

Also I have no idea how my argument is now "mute"... My point has always been that a one box solution like the Marantz, might sound as good as my 2 box combo + save some money... I wouldn't use the Marantz plus a Benchmark DAC (that would be a waste of money), I'd use the Marantz as both transport and DAC....

[E-Stat]

I also found a report on why the analog Dac's are weak and it has nothing to do with Burr Brown, but the power supply. It list a company that sales a upgraded power cord ($10.00) that allows the Dac's to reach their full potential. he use a $3k cd transport as the test comparison.
There is so much more to the performance of a DAC than the initial conversion chip that a ten dollar wall wart power supply can correct. A better power supply will no doubt help, but will not elevate this modest product to what is available. Not even close. Specs are essentially useless.


...so your argument is mute.
The term you seek is "moot" and no, it is not. It is your level of experience that stands mute.

rw

[recoveryone]

thank you for that correction mute/moot

and by the way the upgrade power supply is made by some company in England, by order only.

Your complaint about the squeezebox was the analog Dac, but you don't even use the those Dac's in your own setup as you connect you system via digital output. Now I never said that the Squeezebox was highend, but compared to what you posted. it will hold its own.

[Ajani]

thank you for that correction mute/moot

and by the way the upgrade power supply is made by some company in England, by order only.

Your complaint about the squeezebox was the analog Dac, but you don't even use the those Dac's in your own setup as you connect you system via digital output.

And??? I know what the Squeezebox plugged directly into my amp sounds like (which is why I use an external DAC)... My point has always been that the analog output of the Squeezebox is nothing special, so hopefully one of the streamers/servers I've listed will have better sound quality (meaning that an audiophile would not need to purchase an external DAC, as I did to use with the Squeezebox)...



Now I never said that the Squeezebox was highend, but compared to what you posted. it will hold its own.

Based on what??? Have you compared the Squeezebox to the "not yet released" Cambridge, Rotel or Marantz streamers??? Or have you just looked at a spec sheet and made an assumption???

[recoveryone]

And??? I know what the Squeezebox plugged directly into my amp sounds like (which is why I use an external DAC)... My point has always been that the analog output of the Squeezebox is nothing special, so hopefully one of the streamers/servers I've listed will have better sound quality (meaning that an audiophile would not need to purchase an external DAC, as I did to use with the Squeezebox)...




Based on what??? Have you compared the Squeezebox to the "not yet released" Cambridge, Rotel or Marantz streamers??? Or have you just looked at a spec sheet and made an assumption???

The same assumption that you took, due to the name brand of the units.?????
and yes you said it yourself, base on the sound quality of the Marantz CD unit and other products they made. I have own other DAR in the past that where not very good on many levels, made by computer companies (Netgear, Linksys) and when I found the reviews of the Squeezebox I made a leap of faith and have not turn back since. I know there are better DAR out there, but for the money its hard to beat the squeezebox and the performance it gives. I have nothing against any of the items you linked, I just felt that you tried to throw the Squeezebox down the river, because it was not made by a well known audio company. I guess we will just have to wait and see if an extra $500+ buys satisfaction.

[Ajani]

The same assumption that you took, due to the name brand of the units.?????
and yes you said it yourself, base on the sound quality of the Marantz CD unit and other products they made. I have own other DAR in the past that where not very good on many levels, made by computer companies (Netgear, Linksys) and when I found the reviews of the Squeezebox I made a leap of faith and have not turn back since. I know there are better DAR out there, but for the money its hard to beat the squeezebox and the performance it gives. I have nothing against any of the items you linked, I just felt that you tried to throw the Squeezebox down the river, because it was not made by a well known audio company. I guess we will just have to wait and see if an extra $500+ buys satisfaction.

I've made no assumptions based on brands, here's the first post where I talk about sound quality:


So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound

Pleas note the highlighted key word in my post... I don't just assume that they will sound better than the Squeezebox (I'd have to test them first - which for me involves listening rather than just reading spec sheets)....

Also, I never tried to throw the Squeezebox down the river... It's a great product for $300 (I've had mine for over 2 years) and, like I've done, can be easily upgraded by purchasing a DAC... I created this thread to show persons, who are considering setting up music servers, that there are some (relatively affordable) new options coming soon from several brands... However the first responses from yourself and a few others were immediately negative and dismissive of the products (which none of you have auditioned or even read a review of)... So I've merely addressed all those dismissals...

[recoveryone]

Ummm Gents, the reason to consider any of those servers/streamers is not just convenience... a $300 Squeezebox Touch or a $50 used computer would make a convenient music server...

The issue is sound quality... I'd have to connect the Squeezebox/computer to a DAC to get decent sound... So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound... Just plug them into your integrated amp (like a CD player) and listen to some sweet tunes...

My existing setup is a Squeezebox Classic ($300) connected to a Benchmark DAC1 ($1K) with an Audioquest digital cable ($30). So total = $1,330... Considering the reputation for sound quality of Marantz's cd players, the $800 NA7004 music server might sound just as good as my $1,330 setup (plus look a lot nicer - just one box)...

You left out part of the sentence?

Here is the post that got my attention and yes you made the assumption about the name brand. And when you stated that the Dac's in the squeezbox were only some budget level, I only posted the spec sheet to prove that their are quality parts used in the design of the unit. Now I re-read those ads again, the Cambridge does not even state what Dac's it has and the the Rotel use the Wolfson Dac's. So as you point out that I had holes in my points, but I only showed that the information on these are incomplete, so to say,hope or wish they are better is a reach. So even if I did tried to compare spec's only the SB would still come out ahead due to lack of information from the others. For some reason you think me and others are attacking you, but that is not the case from me for sure.

[Ajani]

You left out part of the sentence?

Here is the post that got my attention and yes you made the assumption about the name brand. And when you stated that the Dac's in the squeezbox were only some budget level, I only posted the spec sheet to prove that their are quality parts used in the design of the unit. Now I re-read those ads again, the Cambridge does not even state what Dac's it has and the the Rotel use the Wolfson Dac's. So as you point out that I had holes in my points, but I only showed that the information on these are incomplete, so to say,hope or wish they are better is a reach. So even if I did tried to compare spec's only the SB would still come out ahead due to lack of information from the others. For some reason you think me and others are attacking you, but that is not the case from me for sure.

OK... how can my use of the word IF be an assumption that those brands sound better than the Squeezebox???

Anyway my point in calling attention to these 4 products is clear. I would ask what your point in this thread is (as you claim it is not to attack the products), but that would just prolong a rather pointless discussion...

[recoveryone]

OK... how can my use of the word IF be an assumption that those brands sound better than the Squeezebox???

Anyway my point in calling attention to these 4 products is clear. I would ask what your point in this thread is (as you claim it is not to attack the products), but that would just prolong a rather pointless discussion...

my point was the value and performance of the SB compare to a unit costing hundreds more. and here is the info on a couple of companies that make the upgraded power cord:


Summing up
While the Slim Devices Squeezebox with stock power supply (footnote 1) offers generally good performance from its analog outputs, it was the sound it produced driving a high-end DAC from its digital output that persuaded me to purchase the review sample. While I still turn to a dedicated disc player for the highest sound quality, much of my listening to music is done while I'm doing something else—writing, editing, reading—and for that, the Squeezebox has become my primary source. As I wrote in the mid-April eNewsletter, "physical discs seem so 20th century!" Very highly recommended.
<HR>
Footnote 1: A number of companies, such as Red Wine Audio (http://www.redwineaudio.com/SB2_SB3_Mods.html) and Bolder Cable (http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/Detail?no=371), now offer modifications and upgraded power supplies for the Squeezebox. Red Wine also offers a battery supply for the Squeezebox.

[Mr Peabody]

I like the Olive having the hard drive built in to save space but on the other hand it could be more likely to have reliability issues down the road. These may not be for the guy who already has his library on the computer as you can stream any where from it. After all these years digital inputs are becoming a feature on CDP's.

[recoveryone]

OK... how can my use of the word IF be an assumption that those brands sound better than the Squeezebox???

Anyway my point in calling attention to these 4 products is clear. I would ask what your point in this thread is (as you claim it is not to attack the products), but that would just prolong a rather pointless discussion...

When using conjectures you lead your readers to think you are stating fact from a belief: So If the world is round I will sail around the world

So IF the Marantz, Rotel, Cambridge, Olive units maintain the kind of sound quality those brands are known for, then you won't need a DAC to get good sound...


con·jec·ture

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</OBJECT><NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> [/URL]/kənˈdʒɛkhttp://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngtʃər/ http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (https://secure.reference.com/sso/register_pop.html?source=favorites) [U]Show Spelled (http://forums.audioreview.com/) [kuhhttp://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn-jek-cher] http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html) Show IPA (http://forums.audioreview.com/) noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
–noun 1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

2. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.

3. Obsolete . the interpretation of signs or omens.


–verb (used with object) 4. to conclude or suppose from grounds or evidence insufficient to ensure reliability.

[E-Stat]

Your complaint about the squeezebox was the analog Dac
Whatever do you mean by the "analog DAC"? Do you understand what that acronym represents?


, but you don't even use the those Dac's in your own setup as you connect you system via digital output
Exactly. I use better.

rw

[E-Stat]

Not sure what your building setup is, but I place my server in the garage, so no extra noise or unsightly computer rig
At as IT professional who works out of his home, I place my "unsightly" computers in the office.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/office1.jpg

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/office2.jpg

If I want to use a computer in the garage or out by the pool, I use the laptop. My audio gear in the garage is tucked away in a closet behind the speakers. I rather like the fact that the Touch has such a small footprint.


http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/touch.jpg

rw

[recoveryone]

very nice home office, love the wood floors

[Mingus]

I also order the Squeezebox Touch and should get it in a few days. I'll hook it up to the Living Room system whiIe streaming the audio thru the wireless router. I got lots of music in my PC mostly CDs and downloads from itunes. The units in Ajani's post looks like high end Squeezebox type devices. It should play well.

[Ajani]

my point was the value and performance of the SB compare to a unit costing hundreds more. and here is the info on a couple of companies that make the upgraded power cord:


Summing up
While the Slim Devices Squeezebox with stock power supply (footnote 1) offers generally good performance from its analog outputs, it was the sound it produced driving a high-end DAC from its digital output that persuaded me to purchase the review sample. While I still turn to a dedicated disc player for the highest sound quality, much of my listening to music is done while I'm doing something else—writing, editing, reading—and for that, the Squeezebox has become my primary source. As I wrote in the mid-April eNewsletter, "physical discs seem so 20th century!" Very highly recommended.
<HR>
Footnote 1: A number of companies, such as Red Wine Audio (http://www.redwineaudio.com/SB2_SB3_Mods.html) and Bolder Cable (http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/Detail?no=371), now offer modifications and upgraded power supplies for the Squeezebox. Red Wine also offers a battery supply for the Squeezebox.

Seriously do you even read the reviews you post??? They all say the exact same thing I've said:

The analog output of the Squeezebox is nothing special - good for $300, but definitely not mid or high end, regardless of what the spec sheet says about the DAC chip that it uses (BTW Burr Brown DAC chips are used in $300 CD players as well - that doesn't meant those players sound as good as high end ones)... The reviewer you quoted, John Atkinson if I'm not mistaken, makes it clear that he purchased the sample to use the digital outputs with a high end DAC... The digital outputs are fine, but that requires using an external DAC (like the Benchmark I use)... Note that he does not say that he bought the unit and used the analog outputs with an upgraded power supply ($10 power cord or whatever)...

Also, I suggest you research the rating the Squeezebox Classic was given in Stereophile versus the Marantz SA8001 CD Player... Then you will understand the reputation I am referring to for Marantz products around the $1K mark... And why it is possible that the players I opened this thread to talk about may indeed sound better than the $300 Squeezebox...

Note also, that an $800 streamer sounding better than a $300 one does not in anyway imply that the $300 one is not a good product (since somehow you think I'm dissing the Squeezebox by suggesting that more expensive alternatives might sound better)

[recoveryone]

Seriously do you even read the reviews you post??? They all say the exact same thing I've said:

The analog output of the Squeezebox is nothing special - good for $300, but definitely not mid or high end, regardless of what the spec sheet says about the DAC chip that it uses (BTW Burr Brown DAC chips are used in $300 CD players as well - that doesn't meant those players sound as good as high end ones)... The reviewer you quoted, John Atkinson if I'm not mistaken, makes it clear that he purchased the sample to use the digital outputs with a high end DAC... The digital outputs are fine, but that requires using an external DAC (like the Benchmark I use)... Note that he does not say that he bought the unit and used the analog outputs with an upgraded power supply ($10 power cord or whatever)...

I read them all in full, but as with many on here, If I can spend less and get more I am a happy man.

Now, since you feel I am shooting down these item you posted. Maybe it is the fact there is no spec sheet to compare to the $300 SB. The Rotel listed one and I did not see anything that would get me all warm and fuzzy to upgrade for the price. So lets just call this for what it is, you have your view and I have mine and until these items it the market its all sale pitch. But at least I post facts and unbiased reviews and I have yet to see you post the same. oh by the way if your interested I found a few more companies that make the upgrade power supply:

Hosfelt Electronics.....................Hosfelt.com......P art #7202C3 (you may have to change the connection end) price $7.00

Elpac............................................. ..................Part # WM075-1950-760


All I try to do is help. hopefully this upgrade will save you a few dollars down the road.
If you re-read all these post, it has been you that has continued this dialog all in a effort to try to promote these items and prove your point that the analog output is lacking, which no one disagreed with. I do appreciate this exchange for I have learned about the power supply upgrades myself and just may look into getting one for my own system. So I did learn something.

[Ajani]

I read them all in full, but as with many on here, If I can spend less and get more I am a happy man.

Now, since you feel I am shooting down these item you posted. Maybe it is the fact there is no spec sheet to compare to the $300 SB. The Rotel listed one and I did not see anything that would get me all warm and fuzzy to upgrade for the price. So lets just call this for what it is, you have your view and I have mine and until these items it the market its all sale pitch. But at least I post facts and unbiased reviews and I have yet to see you post the same. oh by the way if your interested I found a few more companies that make the upgrade power supply:

Hosfelt Electronics.....................Hosfelt.com......P art #7202C3 (you may have to change the connection end) price $7.00

Elpac............................................. ..................Part # WM075-1950-760


All I try to do is help. hopefully this upgrade will save you a few dollars down the road.
If you re-read all these post, it has been you that has continued this dialog all in a effort to try to promote these items and prove your point that the analog output is lacking, which no one disagreed with. I do appreciate this exchange for I have learned about the power supply upgrades myself and just may look into getting one for my own system. So I did learn something.

If you learned something then congrats...

Why you seem to think I'm a salesman for products I have no financial interest in is beyond me....

My sole aim has been to identify new products... and like anyone with even a lick of intelligence, I will wait for them to be released, so I can audition them and determine if they are worth the money...

Also spec sheets would not be reason to upgrade from the Squeezebox... Even if the Rotel, Marantz, etc have better specs I would not buy any of them unless they actually sound better than the Squeezebox...

Also, why would I need to post unbiased reviews, when all the reviews you post are saying exactly what I've been saying?

As for the issue of me continuing the dialog. Note 1: Dialog requres 2 people... so you are as guilty of continuing it as I am (since you always respond)... Note 2: You started this dialog in the first place... I had no desire to discuss anything with you (please refresh your memory of my initial post - which was about 4 new products and had nothing to do with you or the Squeezebox)... And my second post where I mention my setup was not even to you (since you weren't in this thread yet) but you felt the need to comment and started this dialog...

[E-Stat]

very nice home office, love the wood floors
Thanks. BTW, I just ordered a surplus Elpac WM220-1 power supply for $55 delivered. Since it has a DIN plug, at the very least I will need to replace it with a 2.5mm barrel. This is the one Bolder modifies ($125) for use with the SB. Then again, you could purchase the "Ultimate Power Supply" and aftermarket cable for a cool $1325!

Mods to Elpac (http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/-strse-381/power-supply-squeezebox-squeeze/Detail)

Power supplies always matter, but I really think you will not find much, if any in the way of improvement for ten bucks. You are probably aware that the WM075-1950-760 is no longer available. Mouser has a compatible one for about $26 plus shipping, but it is still a wall wart.

WM1005-760 (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Elpac/WM1005-760/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtpkqKkT5w3unIPqQ29rfWGWtCrzyMlrRI%3d )

rw

[recoveryone]

I read the info on the bolder and they go way over the top..lol, but for $20-60 bucks I will give one of them a try. Don't forget to post your findings

[pixelthis]

Pix these products (with exception of the Olive) are essentially Squeezeboxes (hopefully with better DACs and output stages)... So the reason to consider buying any of them is because they would have good sound quality... If you believe that all digital sounds the same, then you could just buy a Squeezebox or even better yet a used laptop and plug it directly into your stereo...

You miss my point.
How much extra would a cheap optical drive and a 1TB drive for storage cost? A few
hundred bucks. So its a squeezebox, still figuring out why you need one of those,
but why do you need one of these then? Anybody that knows computers doesnt need a squeeze, BTW.:1:

[E-Stat]

You miss my point.
How much extra would a cheap optical drive and a 1TB drive for storage cost?
The appropriate question is: How much extra would a better DAC cost?


Anybody that knows computers doesnt need a squeeze
or...

1. Wants multiple music systems sharing same library
2. Wants a digital transport in a different room from the music server
3. Has limited space

rw

[Ajani]

You miss my point.
How much extra would a cheap optical drive and a 1TB drive for storage cost? A few
hundred bucks. So its a squeezebox, still figuring out why you need one of those,
but why do you need one of these then? Anybody that knows computers doesnt need a squeeze, BTW.:1:

In addition to the the points E-Stat made, I'd add that a simple feature like a remote makes the Squeezebox more useful for listening to music from across the room than a computer...

For listening to music through headphones, I prefer to have a direct connection to the computer, but for speakers the Squeezebox is far more convenient...

In fact, at the moment I have my Bencmark DAC connected (via M-Audio USB Transit) to my laptop in my bedroom, driving my headphones... While I use the Squeezebox with my amp and speakers in the living room...

[recoveryone]

You miss my point.
How much extra would a cheap optical drive and a 1TB drive for storage cost? A few
hundred bucks. So its a squeezebox, still figuring out why you need one of those,
but why do you need one of these then? Anybody that knows computers doesnt need a squeeze, BTW.:1:

Pix you are 100% correct if all you did was use that computer for one system in your house. A good sound card and DAC is all you need and some sound card don't even need a DAC to improve the sound (personal taste). But for someone like me, I can lay in bed use my remote to the squeezebox and listen to the Steve Harvey morning show from New York (I live in California), get out of bed head down stairs and turn on the squeezebox down stairs and listens to Last.fm (smooth Jazz or Neo Soul) while the kids can turn the squeezebox upstairs (3rd one) and listen to the hip hop/top 40 playlist all from the same computer, all at the same time. Flexability and Full control at its best! for me.

[pixelthis]

Pix you are 100% correct if all you did was use that computer for one system in your house. A good sound card and DAC is all you need and some sound card don't even need a DAC to improve the sound (personal taste). But for someone like me, I can lay in bed use my remote to the squeezebox and listen to the Steve Harvey morning show from New York (I live in California), get out of bed head down stairs and turn on the squeezebox down stairs and listens to Last.fm (smooth Jazz or Neo Soul) while the kids can turn the squeezebox upstairs (3rd one) and listen to the hip hop/top 40 playlist all from the same computer, all at the same time. Flexability and Full control at its best! for me.

In other words you are squeezebox CRAZY.
Of course, you could do the same with a wireless net and migrating laptops, cheaper and
more versatile.
SQUEEZE, like a lot in this hobby, is mainly a triumph of marketing over common sense.
Its like people with the pre conceived notion of a "whole house" system, when inexpensive satellite systems could be more flexible, maybe cheaper.:1:

[recoveryone]

In other words you are squeezebox CRAZY.
Of course, you could do the same with a wireless net and migrating laptops, cheaper and
more versatile.
SQUEEZE, like a lot in this hobby, is mainly a triumph of marketing over common sense.
Its like people with the pre conceived notion of a "whole house" system, when inexpensive satellite systems could be more flexible, maybe cheaper.:1:

LOL... I would not go that far, but this wireless network DAR is the best I have tried so far to date and I had others that just didn't cut the cake. If I was starting from scratch, it would be cheaper to go another way, but I already had HT/2 channel systems in all bedrooms along with the main system in the family room. Adding the squeezebox was cheaper for me (if you read back a few post on my cost of the computer) each squeezebox was around $200 (from ebay seller) two new, one used. Combine cost of all the SB comes out to the cost of an average laptop . More importantly was the control of creating personal playlist and being able to play what you wanted in each room, unlike a whole house system or having to fire up a laptop in each room. My server runs 24/7 with the MS auto update turned off, so no unexpected restarts.

[E-Stat]

Of course, you could do the same with a wireless net and migrating laptops, cheaper and more versatile
Exactly what kind of new laptop do you suggest that is cheaper than $280? Not to mention is instant on, requires no anti-virus programs, updates, etc.

rw

[Feanor]

Exactly what kind of new laptop do you suggest that is cheaper than $280? Not to mention is instant on, requires no anti-virus programs, updates, etc.

rw
A Netbook like this one (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6433505&CatId=4949) will do fine. Connect it via USB to the DAC of your choice and you're done. As a dedicated music machine the computer doesn't need anti-virus, etc., and many Windows services can be disabled.

I'd hate to do without comprehensive music player interface like Foobar2000; Squeezebox won't do that for me.

[E-Stat]

A Netbook like this one (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6433505&CatId=4949) will do fine. Connect it via USB to the DAC of your choice and you're done.
If your DAC supports USB, then that would be fine.


As a dedicated music machine the computer doesn't need anti-virus, etc., and many Windows services can be disabled.
If Wi-Fi access is enabled, it is vulnerable to attack. Having 1 GB of memory with Win7 is a joke.


I'd hate to do without comprehensive music player interface like Foobar2000; Squeezebox won't do that for me.
Gee, being able to use playlists, search by song, artist, album, genre, year released, random play by any of those criteria, etc. sure works for me. I can control it remotely by the server.

rw

[Feanor]

...
Gee, being able to use playlists, search by song, artist, album, genre, year released, random play by any of those criteria, etc. sure works for me. I can control it remotely by the server.

rw
Last I looked, (been a few months), there was no practical way to search & sort by Composer, which is essential for me.

'Stat, Squeezebox is a good device might even be the best alternative for you and others. However it is suboptimal for me. Are you really arguing that SB is more versitile than a computer? That would be tough arguement to win. It's hair-splitting to bicker about whether you can get by with a $300 computer or need to spend $500.

[E-Stat]

Last I looked, (been a few months), there was no practical way to search & sort by Composer, which is essential for me.
When I search for "Prokofiev", I get 73 results. Ability to sort within the search? I'm just not that picky I guess.


Are you really arguing that SB is more versitile than a computer? That would be tough arguement to win.
Versatile? No. I don't need a media player to run Quicken or play Doom. I've got three other boxes for that. Faster access? No comparison whatsoever. SB is ready when you push the power button. Boot time for a 1 GB laptop? Two minutes? Less ongoing work and expense to maintain? Yes. Far smaller footprint? Yes. More flexibility with multiple digital outputs? Yes.

rw

[Feanor]

When I search for "Prokofiev", I get 73 results. Ability to sort within the search? I'm just not that picky I guess.


Versatile? No. I don't need a media player to run Quicken or play Doom. I've got three other boxes for that. Faster access? No comparison whatsoever. SB is ready when you push the power button. Boot time for a 1 GB laptop? Two minutes? Less ongoing work and expense to maintain? Yes. Far smaller footprint? Yes. More flexibility with multiple digital outputs? Yes.

rw
Fine: everybody should get Squeezebox. Buy Logitech stock now.

[pixelthis]

Exactly what kind of new laptop do you suggest that is cheaper than $280? Not to mention is instant on, requires no anti-virus programs, updates, etc.

rw

Well, you only need a few, refurbs would do fine.
Even better , get wireless.
Me, when I want to listen to music, I go into the music room.
If at work or elsewhere, my DAS from YAMAHA does fine, sounds quite good.
HATE TO COMPLICATE THINGS, but that is just me.:1:

[E-Stat]

Even better , get wireless.
That's how the Touch works.


Me, when I want to listen to music, I go into the music room.
I cannot imagine limiting access to music that way.

rw

[Mingus]

Just receive the SB Touch. Its all set up and working very well. The Touch is connected to the Yamaha HT receiver located in the LR via analog jacks and streaming music from PC is located in the bedroom upstairs. The PC is also connected to the Onkyo HT receiver via digital cable in the same room. If it goes well I'll get one for the basement HT system. Also looking into getting a DAC for the Touch connection.

[pixelthis]

That's how the Touch works.


I cannot imagine limiting access to music that way.

rw

Oh, pshaw.
I paid 350 bucks just to have decent audio at work, and will listen to music anywhere.
But to listen in the highest quality you need decent gear, speakers, quiet, and one
of your favorite brands of beer(optional). But for just casual listening, a hundred of my favorite
albums on a memory stick will do. BUT when I am at the house...
Anyway , heres what I lug to work everyday, kinda my own personal "music room".:1: