serious listening...what to do during it?

[Tarheel_]

So you have set up your listening space...moved speakers, toe-ed them in, changed components, turned on your best source material....THEN WHAT?

I've often tried to sit down and relax to music. Just me, the room, my gear and the music, but after 10-15mins i'm looking for something to do or a beer to drink.
Sure, we can be critical in dedicated music systems and wonder how this/that affects tonal accuracy, staging and imaging, and realistic sound reproduction.

But, at the end of the day, what do you do with the time?

[Ajani]

That's a good question... I actually don't engage in "serious listening" that often anymore... I play music very often, but I don't like to spend time analyzing sound quality (unless I just got a new component)...

So sometimes I'm on the computer, cooking or exercising while my system is playing... Though I do just relax on the couch and listen (not critically, but solely for enjoyment) at some point each week....

[JohnMichael]

I do a lot of serious listening instead of watching tv. I find when I am happiest with my system I do very little critical listening. My former roommate could not understand that when I was listening to a symphony or Broadway musical I did not want him to talk to me at home anymore than I would want him to talk in the concert hall. Of course I do get up to get a glass of wine. If I am cleaning or other chores that is when I play pop music.

I recently did some critical listening to my three phono preamps and was surprised with the results.

[atomicAdam]

I try to sit down for 'serious' listening at least 3 times a week for a couple hours at a time. It doesn't always happen - but that is what I aim for.

When I find myself unable to engage with the music is when I find I don't have something set up correctly or some component or system as a whole just isn't emotionally engaging.

I can almost always but on a record and be swept away with it.

Maybe it is just me, maybe it is level or love for the music, maybe it is a level of quality in the system.

Sounds to me though, if you are finding yourself searching for other things to do with in 15 min of sitting down to listen... than you either don't seriously like what you are listening too or the system just isn't getting you involved.

[ForeverAutumn]

So you have set up your listening space...moved speakers, toe-ed them in, changed components, turned on your best source material....THEN WHAT?

I've often tried to sit down and relax to music. Just me, the room, my gear and the music, but after 10-15mins i'm looking for something to do or a beer to drink.
Sure, we can be critical in dedicated music systems and wonder how this/that affects tonal accuracy, staging and imaging, and realistic sound reproduction.

But, at the end of the day, what do you do with the time?

Forgive me for asking this, but what's the point of having an optimal system if you don't enjoy just sitting and listening to the music?

For me, the music comes first. I can sit on my couch, close my eyes, and zone out to music that I love for hours. Although, it's most enjoyable on my best system, I can listen on a pretty crappy system (within reason) too because it's about the music not the sound.

I'm not trying to be critical of your post, I ask this honestly because I've just never understood the love for gear over the love for music.

[GMichael]

Strangely enough, I do most of my critical listening on my second system. :blush2: I love to lie in bed listening to music while I slip off to sleep. It is also is set up to come on each morning as my alarm. I do some critical listening on my main system, but always end up interrupted by something within a minute or two.:frown2: My next upgrade is going to have to be speakers for the bedroom.:idea:

[frenchmon]

So you have set up your listening space...moved speakers, toe-ed them in, changed components, turned on your best source material....THEN WHAT?

I've often tried to sit down and relax to music. Just me, the room, my gear and the music, but after 10-15mins i'm looking for something to do or a beer to drink.
Sure, we can be critical in dedicated music systems and wonder how this/that affects tonal accuracy, staging and imaging, and realistic sound reproduction.

But, at the end of the day, what do you do with the time?

Well I love good music. Imma Jazz lover. I also listen to some classical, but not to the level of JohnMichals...only because I dont know many titles and who to look for, but I have a few classical albums and CD's I do like.

Now you ask "then what?' Well for me I have to have decent gear to be able to relax. Some people watch tv to relax. When I have a long day at work, there is nothing better than knowing I can have a good evening meal and the 2 channel waiting for me. Sometimes I have my lap top, but to just relax and enjoy the music is a very effective way of winding down and relaxing. Its not critical listening at that point....its just relaxing to the sounds and pure enjoyment. There has to be some kinda connection with the listener and the music. You have to let it get inside of you. Listening and enjoying the sounds takes me away from life's Hustle and bustle of the day.

There are times when listening critically, I play several CD's of different bands from the same era. When I listen like this I hear what sets them apart from others...you find their "signature" and "technique" . Its the same with piano players and sax players and guitar players. You can listen and hear some of the people you know influenced them in their playing...or you can hear their own signature or technique they started. Billy Higgins is known as a very "musical drummer" and you can hear it in his drumming. Thats what sets him apart. Connie Kay of the Modern Jazz Quartet and The Paul Desmond Quartet is a self taught drummer never having a lesson. He is know for his great subtle cymbal work. Art Blakey another great drummer, has a signature that is heard always after the bridge. Buddy Rich...well you know his signature right off the bat. that cat is the best drummer I've ever heard...him and Max Roach. So I like to listen to the different techniques of the different musicians...like Sax players...some are warm and smooth, some are thunderous and hard and loud..some slow and some just touch your soul like Paul Desmond and Benny Golson who in my opinion was very much under-rated. So you gotta love music for you to be able to just sit and listen.

[Tarheel_]

Forgive me for asking this, but what's the point of having an optimal system if you don't enjoy just sitting and listening to the music?

For me, the music comes first. I can sit on my couch, close my eyes, and zone out to music that I love for hours. Although, it's most enjoyable on my best system, I can listen on a pretty crappy system (within reason) too because it's about the music not the sound.

I'm not trying to be critical of your post, I ask this honestly because I've just never understood the love for gear over the love for music.

maybe my op wasn't clear, i didn't really mean i sit and analyze my setup/system over enjoying the tunes each time.

I'm really looking for what folks do when they actually sit down and listen.

on 2nd thought, maybe we should define 'serious listening' -vs- 'critical listening' as I consider them separate.

[dean_martin]

bourbon, neat.

If it ever cools off down here, I'll open a bottle of Scotch and I have a bottle of Yamazaki 12 year old Japanese whisky waiting for the right occasion.

[atomicAdam]

maybe my op wasn't clear, i didn't really mean i sit and analyze my setup/system over enjoying the tunes each time.

I'm really looking for what folks do when they actually sit down and listen.

on 2nd thought, maybe we should define 'serious listening' -vs- 'critical listening' as I consider them separate.

Well - when I sit down to listen just for what is on - I pretty much put a pillow between me back and the couch - something to keep my eyes at the right angle for the speakers behind my neck - put the feet out - hands typically in lap or at my side - sometimes my cat jumps on me to join in - and i close my eyes and enjoy the ride. oh - and i have the remote near me.

now, if i am spinning vinyl, i pretty much do the same and then have to get up every 10-20min to flip the record.

I try to slow my breathing down so that i wont hear or notice it - i typically unplug the refrige - laptops and computers same - throw up a couple more thick blankets to reduce high frequency reflections - turn off the lights - turn up the volume - and drift away on the soundwaves.

[ForeverAutumn]

I see. I misunderstood you then. I apologize.

When I have the time to sit down and listen, that's all I do. I put on a CD that I love, close my eyes, and just listen. Sometimes I'll have a relaxing beverage, wine or tea depending on my mood, more often than not, a 20 pound cat will be purring on my lap. It's all very soothing. I don't feel the need to be doing anything else other than enjoy the moment and enjoy the tunes.

[atomicAdam]

bourbon, neat.

If it ever cools off down here, I'll open a bottle of Scotch and I have a bottle of Yamazaki 12 year old Japanese whisky waiting for the right occasion.

THAT ICECUBE IS HUGE!!!!

It is a Cubezilla! Watch out Tokyo!

[ForeverAutumn]

Cubezilla!

:yikes: LMAO!!!

[SlumpBuster]

bourbon, neat.

If it ever cools off down here, I'll open a bottle of Scotch and I have a bottle of Yamazaki 12 year old Japanese whisky waiting for the right occasion.

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[dean_martin]

THAT ICECUBE IS HUGE!!!!

It is a Cubezilla! Watch out Tokyo!

never been to Japan, but my son has. I'll have to ask him about the ice over there. It looks kinda like a Godzilla egg from that awful Godzilla movie with Matthew Broderick.

Yamazaki is a Suntory brand. Bill Murray's character in Lost in Translation goes to Tokyo to do a commercial for Suntory.

Edit: Hah! - SB beat me to it.

[JoeE SP9]

For me there isn't really any difference in the type of listening as long as I'm in my chair. When playing LP's, of course I have to get up frequently. Many times it's just an excuse to dance (alone) to the next couple of selections. I also have the volume up to a "good" level. usually 90+dB.

I generally have to do this alone as conversation is not practical at 90+dB levels. Also when I plunk someone in the sweet spot and play selections for them the volume is up and my toes are tapping. For those occasions I stand behind "the chair" and dance anyway!

As for drink and recreational substances; I'll partake of whatever I have at hand. It's usually, well lately, Saint Pauli Girl. In the bottle only.

[poppachubby]

I just sit and listen and take in the music. I agree with Adam, is you aren't whisked away then you should probably change the album. Could be something in your chain that's not agreeing and tiring your ears.

Aside from this, I like to read liner notes, expecially on the old jazz LPs. I also like to do some light reading, like a coffee table book or Maximum R&R magazine, etc.

Right now I have this book next to my chair...

http://www.usedbooks.co.nz/images/Book/1594480184.jpg

[audio amateur]

maybe my op wasn't clear, i didn't really mean i sit and analyze my setup/system over enjoying the tunes each time.

I'm really looking for what folks do when they actually sit down and listen.

on 2nd thought, maybe we should define 'serious listening' -vs- 'critical listening' as I consider them separate.
I feel like im waisting time (not doing anything constructive) if im sat down listening to music and doing nothing else, so I usually have my laptop with me. But I do indulge every now and then, although it doesnt necessarily last a long time...

[Geoffcin]

bourbon, neat.

If it ever cools off down here, I'll open a bottle of Scotch and I have a bottle of Yamazaki 12 year old Japanese whisky waiting for the right occasion.

Single malt and a good recording....Oh yeah!

Good Cabernet will do too. That and some good cheese and possible grapes...Hey, that's what's on for tonight - thank you!

[thekid]

To me the terms "serious" or "critical" are interchangable and connotate that some type of analysis is going on. You could be anlyzing gear or you could be analyzing a piece of music. I don't think many people except the most obsessed audiophile truly does that much "critical" listening because there is IMO little need for it once you have your system set-up and are playing from your library of music. Slight changes in the room, additional gear and new music are intances where "critical" listening should be performed IMO.

How you listen to your set-up is a different manner and probably varies from person to person. Some like JohnMichael here treat it like a concert experience and they want to devote their focus to listening to the music while others here apparently mix in a few other activities such as light reading or small chores. I don't think anyone here can tell you what will work best for you. Sitting in the "sweet spot" and not moving while listening to music is not a requirement so find what makes the best listening experience for you and relax.

[Geoffcin]

IMHO you can't do light reading or small chores and even remotely expect to do "critical listening". Sitting relaxed is an absolute must, and with no other distractions like talking, working a laptop, or texting on your cell phone.

I would say 90% of my audio time is NOT spent in such a state, and however enjoyable that time is, it really can't be called serious listening.

[thekid]

IMHO you can't do light reading or small chores and even remotely expect to do "critical listening". Sitting relaxed is an absolute must, and with no other distractions like talking, working a laptop, or texting on your cell phone.

I would say 90% of my audio time is NOT spent in such a state, and however enjoyable that time is, it really can't be called serious listening.

I think you misread my post.

I agree that you cannot do "critical listening" while doing other things. My main point was that most of the time you do not need to do "critical listening" but only have to enjoy the music. I think the OP is operating under the impression that because he has invested some much time, energy and money into his set-up he feels he must sit and do "critical listening" everytime he sits down to listen to music. Most people do not (cannot) listen to music like this on a steady basis.

[Ajani]

maybe we should define 'serious listening' -vs- 'critical listening' as I consider them separate.

IMO, there are 3 types of listening:

critical listening - you remove all distractions and analyze the sound of the system and the music being played...

serious listening - you remove all distractions, but just listen to the music for enjoyment. No analysis is done of sound quality...

casual listening - You listen for enjoyment, don't do analysis of sound quality and don't remove distractions...

I believe that critical listening is a necessary evil to be employed when evaluating a potential purchase... but should be done rarely as it often leads to obsessive behavior (Upgraditis) which leads to more serious problems (bankruptcy)...

Serious listening is something I think hardcore music lovers do fairly regularly, but the average person rarely (if ever) does... Considering that we have 5 senses, it is very difficult to shut off 4 of them and just listen to music... Personally, I find that many of my serious listening sessions end because once the groove gets me, I jump up to dance... so bye bye sweetspot...

Casual listening is the most practical method on a regular basis... And is the reason why not everyone is an audiophile... If you never do any critical listening, then there is probably no incentive to upgrade components...

[JoeE SP9]

So you too have happy feet. Last night I was playing some CD's I recently received from CD Universe. When I put on Nigeria 70 and skipped to Upside Down (Fela) I had to dance! Anyone who can play music like this and not start "bar stool dancing" at minimum has no sense of rhythm. I can dance while listening. I can't read anything. Even the newspaper is out of the question.

[Ajani]

So you too have happy feet. Last night I was playing some CD's I recently received from CD Universe. When I put on Nigeria 70 and skipped to Upside Down (Fela) I had to dance! Anyone who can play music like this and not start "bar stool dancing" at minimum has no sense of rhythm. I can dance while listening. I can't read anything. Even the newspaper is out of the question.

LOL... I do wonder how some audiophiles just recline in a chair in the sweetspot and not move, while a sweet groove is playing... I almost embarrassed myself at a few HiFi shops while auditioning gear... If I really like the sound, I want to dance, rather than just sit still in the auditioning chair...

[Feanor]

So you have set up your listening space...moved speakers, toe-ed them in, changed components, turned on your best source material....THEN WHAT?

I've often tried to sit down and relax to music. Just me, the room, my gear and the music, but after 10-15mins i'm looking for something to do or a beer to drink.
Sure, we can be critical in dedicated music systems and wonder how this/that affects tonal accuracy, staging and imaging, and realistic sound reproduction.

But, at the end of the day, what do you do with the time?
Critical listening requires that you do nothing else. Obviously this is true for audiophile critique of the sound. But it's also true for full appreciation of the music.

But it could be that some music requires even more concentration to be appreciated. I'm fond of comtemporary classical music; I find it requires particularly close attention to be properly appeciated. For example Elliott Carter's Piano Concerto ...

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[ForeverAutumn]

LOL... I do wonder how some audiophiles just recline in a chair in the sweetspot and not move, while a sweet groove is playing... I almost embarrassed myself at a few HiFi shops while auditioning gear... If I really like the sound, I want to dance, rather than just sit still in the auditioning chair...

I'll tap my toe, but that's about it. Although I listen to a lot of progressive rock and it's hard to dance in 11/15 time. :3:

[Ajani]

But it could be that some music requires even more concentration to be appreciated. I'm fond of comtemporary classical music; I find it requires particularly close attention to be properly appeciated. For example Elliott Carter's Piano Concerto ...

It's truly interesting how subjective music is... I listened to the first 2 minutes of that song and it sounded like such a cacophony that I couldn't bear the thought of another 8 minutes of it... It sounded to me as if the piano keys were just being hit erratically, rather than with a clear flow to the intended music... Yet I'm sure that song is probably considered a masterpiece by many...

[Geoffcin]

I think you misread my post.

I agree that you cannot do "critical listening" while doing other things. My main point was that most of the time you do not need to do "critical listening" but only have to enjoy the music. I think the OP is operating under the impression that because he has invested some much time, energy and money into his set-up he feels he must sit and do "critical listening" everytime he sits down to listen to music. Most people do not (cannot) listen to music like this on a steady basis.

Well, I'm going to have to agree with you there. I certainly can't find the time to sit back and sip scotch with a good recording on a regular basis. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy my gear. heck, I've got 4 setups counting the computer system!

I think where it got off track is that the OP doesn't feel like sitting for hours in the dark with his rig, and was wondering if all of us do too. The fact for me is YES! I wouldn't mind a couple hours in a darkend room with my setup and a bunch of good recordings. If I didn't then I would either be looking to change out my gear or find another hobby.

[recoveryone]

I guess I fall in the catorgory of most, that I do not have the time on a regular bases to sit and enjoy. Fridays, my day off is about the only time I get to listen at any length and then I am on the computer or doing other things around the house. I assume most of use have fallen victim of multitasking in our fast pace world of always being plugged in. Being able to sit back and relax and just listen to music mean you are unplugged from the rest of the world (our lives) Cell phones, facebook, AV review, Kids, 200+ channels of HD TV and our spouses who some will feel how in the hell do you get the hide away from all this while I have to maintain the fort. lol

[emaidel]

I am fortunate now that I'm retired to have the time to do serious listening often. In fact, most of my listening is serious listening, and rarely ever anything else. If I want background music, then I turn on the music channel on my TV (which runs through an Adcom GFP-565 preamp, Rotel RB-980BX amp into a pair of B&W 802F Specials), and just have it on while I go about some other business.

I feel I'm also fortunate - very fortunate - to have found what appears to be the perfect "marriage" amongst my components, and so my system sounds very, very good. Most of my listening is to classical music, and it is through my audio system(s) that I have developed the taste for and knowledge of classical music that I have.

My latest venture, is to self-educate myself with the music of Anton Bruckner. I'd never known any of his music before, and now own recordings (mostly SACD's) of his 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Symphonies. My favorite (at least so far) is his Fourth, and the BIS SACD with Osmo Vanska conducting in particular. Listening - seriously listening - to the last two movements is exhilarating.

[blackraven]

I like to sit and listen with all the lights off and get swept away by the music. Its almost like meditation. I tune out everything else and unwind, listen and enjoy. Other times the wife and I will sit and listen (sometinmes dance) while drinking wine, marguerita's or shots of Buffalo Grass Vodka. The music gets turned way up when I cook or do chores around the house.

I try not to do the critical listening where I'm nit picking about my system anymore because you can drive yourself crazy. I've come to really appreciate the big bang for a buck sytem that I have put together.

[frenchmon]

As for drink and recreational substances; I'll partake of whatever I have at hand. It's usually, well lately, Saint Pauli Girl. In the bottle only.

I remember those days. Nothing like a good Saint Pauli Gal back in the day. But I dont do aything these days...havent had a drink since 1989.....and enjoying being drink and drug free ever since.

[Auricauricle]

Critical listening, for me, requires a commitment of time and effort; an investment that usually discourages the inclusion of others into the Inner Sanctum and has to be conducted with some preparation. Most of these sessions occur in the wee hours, when there are few distractions and nothing to occupy my thoughts but the music. Depending on the music, the preparation may or may not include alcohol or other substances to facilitate the entry into the spirit of the musician(s), who like shamans enter my inner being when the consciousness is completely overcome. This may involve other measures, such as taking deliberate breaths--as one might meditate--but these contrivances can be distracting. I just like it best when the music takes over, an experience much like an orgasm. In such occurrences, it is like a shock, right up the spinal cord to my brain. In such a state, I feel as though I understand the composer completely: there is no other way the piece could have been written....

(Ahem. Ye-e-e-sss...)

[TheHills44060]

Definitely need to have a drink. Beer or wine.

[Feanor]

It's truly interesting how subjective music is... I listened to the first 2 minutes of that song and it sounded like such a cacophony that I couldn't bear the thought of another 8 minutes of it... It sounded to me as if the piano keys were just being hit erratically, rather than with a clear flow to the intended music... Yet I'm sure that song is probably considered a masterpiece by many...
Yours is a typical reaction. But yes, Carter is one of the great composers of the latter half of the 20th century though he will never have the popular recognition he deserves for reasons you can imagine. (He is still alive and still composing in his 102nd year).

His music is almost entirely atonal, (which you call it erratic), however it is anything but random. If you listen carefully, (and that was my point), you will hear his music is polyphonic, i.e. having multiple parts, (or thermes), played by different instruments or groups of instruments. What is more unusual is that the multiple parts often have different tempos. Yet theses different parts and different tempos occassionally combine in planned manner.

[Jack in Wilmington]

I remember those days. Nothing like a good Saint Pauli Gal back in the day. But I dont do aything these days...havent had a drink since 1989.....and enjoying being drink and drug free ever since.

1989 that was a good year. That's when I gave up smoking. I'm drinking a little more now that my doctor said a glass of red wine is very good for me. Like the occasional pale ale or such. Now that my system has never sounded this nice (Thanks to you guys) I do spend my critical listening time.

[Tarheel_]

some very good replys...i'm enjoying reading through them all

[MntnMan62]

Great question. I tend to do most of my critical and serious listening on my second system in the mancave. First, I'll make sure I have a nice scotch (Lagavulin) or vodka (Rain Organic) and then I'll sit down and put something on that I have a real hankering for. I may just sit there and gaze off into space or catch up on some reading. Sadly it seems today's lifestyle just doesn't allow much time for this type of thing. I recall my days as a teenager in the mid to late 70's and I spent hours and hours doing exactly as I describe, except I was listening to albums, not compressed mp3's, and without the scotch or vodka. Now, I am lucky if I can put together 15 to 30 minutes a week. While that stat can really bum you out, I convince myself that it is all about quality, not quantity. Bottom line is we can probably all stand to do a little more critical listening. Might make the world a nicer place.:16:

[Bluey]

I have the Cambridge Audio 650a and 650c so its not difficult to insert a favourite CD or SACD and just sit or lie down to escape the real world.
Since setting up my Cambrdge Audio system I do 'listen' more than I did when just running the HT system.
I do the serious listening instead of watching the 'box' at least 3 times a week, with casual listening more regularly.
Critical listening is not what I had in mind when buying my equipment.
I recently bought CA's 650T and can now listen to DAB+ as well, which is to me what its all about - i.e. listening to and enjoying music.

Cheers from Down Under.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I sit down or lie down. I turn out the lights making the room as dark as possible. I turn up the volume to levels that could revive the near dead. I close my eyes. If I know the lyrics I may try to sing along. I try to avoid interference from my other senses and wind up in a trance-like state. The goal is a spiritual experience.