Claim, "World's Best CDP"

[Mr Peabody]

Could it be? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=v7mvl21fbcs19a9hjfmui147211qeg f8&topic=84390.0

For your consideration.

Still probably out of most of our price but for the "world's best" pretty reasonable actually. On one hand it claims to sound "analog" on the other "like master tapes".

[Feanor]

Could it be? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=v7mvl21fbcs19a9hjfmui147211qeg f8&topic=84390.0

For your consideration.

Still probably out of most of our price but for the "world's best" pretty reasonable actually. On one hand it claims to sound "analog" on the other "like master tapes".
If Albert Von Schweikert says it's the best and that he's going to distributed it, then why wouldn't I believe him? And what a bargain at only US$12,000.

For my part, unlike Albert, I don't hate digital sound in general, (only lots of digital recordings -- just like I hated lots of LPs back in the day). Therefore "analog-like" sound is not per se a critireon for me.

See the manufacturer's link HERE (http://www.eera.fr/). BTW, it is an upsampling machine, (sorry about that Audio Note lovers).

If we're talking "best" CD player, I'd check out a EMM Labs CDSA SE, (here (http://www.emmlabs.com/pdf/CDSA_brochure.pdf)), which does play SACD. BTW, it over (not up) samples everything to 5.6448 MHz, (2x DSD). And only $10k; see EnjoyTheMusic's "gold standard" review HERE (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0407/emm_labs_cdsa_se.htm).

But practically speakng I think the best CD player is a actually a computer with nice DAC, preferably with an asynchronous USB connection; I'd be looking at THIS (http://www.ayre.com/qb9.htm) Ayre QB-9 DAC for example. The Ayre's $2500. Otherwise maybe a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC, (here (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-dac?cat=audio)), $3000. .

[RGA]

Feaner

Just to let you know the "gold standard" is a bit of a play on words since the reviewer's name is Phil Gold.

Best is a funny term - The best DAC I have heard is the new DAC 5 sig. But I have heard a DAC 5 not sound very good in a different non designed for system - IE; with solid state amplifier, multiwat speakers, no silver etc. Conversely the DAC 2.1 sounded terrific with a B&W D802 and Classe amp. So go figure.

The EMM Labs gear is first rate, and I auditioned the QB9 at soundhounds from Ayre and for that money it was very good. Enjoythemusic.com also has the dac 5 in their SA section http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0903/audionotedac5.htm

Still that was seven years ago. The new one takes it out. Albert could be right but it will depend on the resolution of the rest of the system in my view. There is gear out there that could be seriously held back by the amplifier or loudspeakers.

Rochlin, enjoythemusic's editor, drummer, recording engineer?? just reviewed the new Ongaku versus the Kondo one he used to own (the only reviewer who actually put that kind of coin out) and he said that he didn't think his system was up to truly showing what it was capable of doing.

The rest of the system needs to be up to the job and so words like "best" really only mean best out of what I tried based on my system - if the system is limited then you may not really be evaluating as well as you like.

My only skepticism comes when someone is going to be a distributor for a product. Is it really and truly "the best" or is that everything else already had a distributor and this is the best of what has no distribution? Those are different things.

[Mr Peabody]

I thought the claim was bold as well but wanted to share. I have heard that PS Audio DAC and transport combo. I personally was not impressed. It sounded alright but to me seemed a bit soft and the transport had a flimsy tray, for $6k I expected a bit more. The shop that picked it up claims to have sold a few though. I would like to hear one of those Electrocompaniet players. I also wouldn't mind hearing some Ayre. That's a brand I've heard a lot about but no one carries.

[Feanor]

....

The EMM Labs gear is first rate, and I auditioned the QB9 at soundhounds from Ayre and for that money it was very good. Enjoythemusic.com also has the dac 5 in their SA section http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0903/audionotedac5.htm

...
No doubt the DAC 5 takes Audio Note's "1x oversampling" concept to the "Nth" degree. It's certainly a beautiful box filled with high-grade transformers, tubes, and other components. But for $33,000, (*gulp*), the Ayre has to look liike a bargain.

[E-Stat]

If we're talking "best" CD player, I'd check out a EMM Labs CDSA SE,.
I heard one in an exceptional system and find it sounds superb with both SACD and CD content, but it is the low end single box player in the line. It is the XDS1 (http://www.emmlabs.com/html/audio/xds1/xds1.html) which is the current top end model at slightly more than double the price of the CDSA.

rw

[Feanor]

I heard one in an exceptional system and find it sounds superb with both SACD and CD content, but it is the low end single box player in the line. It is the XDS1 (http://www.emmlabs.com/html/audio/xds1/xds1.html) which is the current top end model at slightly more than double the price of the CDSA.

rw
Methinks I'd settle for either Meitner box over anything else in a player.

[theaudiohobby]

..
But practically speakng I think the best CD player is a actually a computer with nice DAC, preferably with an asynchronous USB connection; I'd be looking at THIS (http://www.ayre.com/qb9.htm) Ayre QB-9 DAC for example. The Ayre's $2500. Otherwise maybe a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC, (here (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-dac?cat=audio)), $3000. .You can get your existing SPDIF DAC to provide asynchronous USB data transfer with this device/cable from halidesign (http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/)http://www.halidedesign.com/images/products/bridge/bridge.png,
it's a bit pricey at USD450 (oops, price increase) , but it opens up a large number of possibilities.

[E-Stat]

... but it opens up a large number of possibilities.
If your DAC has a BNC connector.

rw

[Ajani]

So does this mean that my Benchmark DAC1/Squeezebox combo is not the pinnacle of digital playback?

It is hard to take the opinion of a soon to be distributor seriously... Though, he may be honest that the CD player is the best he has ever heard.... However, even that means nothing considering how subjective our hobby is... I'm sure there is someone who has heard the Tentation and thought it was nothing special (as I've yet to come across a HiFi product that is universally loved)....

[RGA]

I thought the claim was bold as well but wanted to share. I have heard that PS Audio DAC and transport combo. I personally was not impressed. It sounded alright but to me seemed a bit soft and the transport had a flimsy tray, for $6k I expected a bit more. The shop that picked it up claims to have sold a few though. I would like to hear one of those Electrocompaniet players. I also wouldn't mind hearing some Ayre. That's a brand I've heard a lot about but no one carries.

My nderstanding is the Ayre DAC is really best suited for computer playback and I have to say it was a stunner. I heard it through a Mac mini/lcd screen Sim Audio amp and Dynaudio floorstanders which sounded very good. Best I have heard from Dynaudio with the exception of the Evidence Masters (or whatever the massive behemoths were called).

Try not to judge the flimsiness of the tray - I realll have disliked a lot of the fast moving ones because they seem to rattle on their way in and out. But the tray is not the transport mechanism. But I like the CD 6 for this - it is the DiscMagic Transport and opens and closes with rock solid confidence. Being about 14 years old and bought new as a heavy used demo I can's say enough about it with regards to build quality. Just needs a better DAC. Meanwhile I have been bothered by numerous tray mechanisms from numerous makers like Sim Audio, Audio Note, Mark Levinson, Rega and others. They're more expensive and all seem a lot fussier in operation or they're slower to read discs, or they jam, or they revert to the beginning of the disc if they encounter minor dirt.

[RGA]

No doubt the DAC 5 takes Audio Note's "1x oversampling" concept to the "Nth" degree. It's certainly a beautiful box filled with high-grade transformers, tubes, and other components. But for $33,000, (*gulp*), the Ayre has to look liike a bargain.

The new one is $76,000. Price is never the issue when you talk statement products - everyone's statement tend to be high. The issue I think is what is better or best and frankly that is both subjective and objective. CD is a superior format to Vinyl objectively but the results are not always evidence of that subjectively (and the latter is the only one that actually counts) because the ear/brain interface is what determines what sounds right not the machines - unless it it Lt. Commander Data kind of ears.

But 30k is nuts on my budget LOL. It gets to a point of sillyness in my view but hey if you got it baby flaunt it flaunt it. (Zero Mostel in the Producers). And I have to say it does sound a lot better than the 4 which sounds a lot better than the 3 which sounds a lot better than the 2 which blows away the level 1. A dealer mentioned that where it truly starts for AN digital is 2.1 balancd sig with CDT/two transport which is an upgraded Philips Pro top loader. Below that they're nice cd players but merely hint at it. I think he's being too hard on the lower ones but just going from the 1.1 to the 2.1 and I couldn't go back - so he may have a point.

The question though is would you even spend $3,500 on a redbook cd player over the computer DACs like the Ayre? I want to borrow the Ayre and do a head to head against the one box because that is an interesting dilemma. Even if the one box is better which my first sessions indicate - how much better is really worth the extra storage space and fuss?

[RGA]

So does this mean that my Benchmark DAC1/Squeezebox combo is not the pinnacle of digital playback?

It is hard to take the opinion of a soon to be distributor seriously... Though, he may be honest that the CD player is the best he has ever heard.... However, even that means nothing considering how subjective our hobby is... I'm sure there is someone who has heard the Tentation and thought it was nothing special (as I've yet to come across a HiFi product that is universally loved)....

What I heard from the Benchmark room at CES it will be tough to beat at that price I think. In fact benchmark has a lot of interesting products at what appear to me anyway to be very very reasonable prices.

I greatly admire their build it yourself approach which is very similar to the XoticPC website building your own laptops - you can buy a VASTLY better laptop for a lower price with cutting edge technology that you can't buy walking into BestBuy which almost look like their machines are two years behind Xotic PC.

With Benchmark you can choose the kind of preamp or just a DAC if you have a preamp and you can choose the kind of connectors you want. And it's small which would be a great bedroom system where space is limited. I certainly can't lug my OTO to my working city for the teaching year so the Benchmark looks quite nice.

[theaudiohobby]

If your DAC has a BNC connector.

rwNope, there is a choice of connectors, RCA or BNC.

[E-Stat]

Nope, there is a choice of connectors, RCA or BNC.
Your picture successfully faked me out. I think it is safe to say you will find more units that use RCA connectors than the Berkeley flavor. :)

rw

[Ajani]

What I heard from the Benchmark room at CES it will be tough to beat at that price I think. In fact benchmark has a lot of interesting products at what appear to me anyway to be very very reasonable prices.

I greatly admire their build it yourself approach which is very similar to the XoticPC website building your own laptops - you can buy a VASTLY better laptop for a lower price with cutting edge technology that you can't buy walking into BestBuy which almost look like their machines are two years behind Xotic PC.

With Benchmark you can choose the kind of preamp or just a DAC if you have a preamp and you can choose the kind of connectors you want. And it's small which would be a great bedroom system where space is limited. I certainly can't lug my OTO to my working city for the teaching year so the Benchmark looks quite nice.

The Benchmark is a great product (though I was just kidding about the Pinnacle question). However, I think it is coming under some really heavy competition in its price range. Just consider how many sub $2K DACs are now available from major HiFi manufacturers and you'll see how difficult things will be for Benchmark going forward. Not to mention the number of brands aiming to deliver music streamers (with internal DACs), Marantz, Rotel and Cambridge Audio all have streamers in the works.

Then you have to consider direct internet sales brands (like Emotiva who will be offering a $300 DAC with remote - no headphone socket though). So competition is going to be fierce...

[theaudiohobby]

Your picture successfully faked me out. I think it is safe to say you will find more units that use RCA connectors than the Berkeley flavor. :)

rwCorrect, I wonder why they chose to use the BNC for the artwork, probably it looked prettier than the RCA connector :)

[Feanor]

...

The question though is would you even spend $3,500 on a redbook cd player over the computer DACs like the Ayre? I want to borrow the Ayre and do a head to head against the one box because that is an interesting dilemma. Even if the one box is better which my first sessions indicate - how much better is really worth the extra storage space and fuss?
Do you mean extra storage and fuss of handling CDs vs. computer files?

In my own system I have never found the one-box player to be better than the computer with decent DAC, but "results may vary" as they say.

[Feanor]

You can get your existing SPDIF DAC to provide asynchronous USB data transfer with this device/cable from halidesign (http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/)http://www.halidedesign.com/images/products/bridge/bridge.png,
it's a bit pricey at USD450 (oops, price increase) , but it opens up a large number of possibilities.
Well for $450 it ain't going to happen at my place. Halide refers to technology developed by Wavelength Audio (http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/); Ayre also uses their technology. Both Halide and Ayre are likely paying stiff licensing fees.

In my present setup I'm not using USB at; my sound card has S/PDIF coax output and that's what I'm feeding to my DAC. Sounds very good to me, but a plausible case can be made that asynchoronous USB should be better on account of lower jitter. On the other hand there are lots of things beside S/PDIF that can insinuate jitter as I understand.

In that sense the expensive Wavelength Audio solution, (async USB), is absurd because standard USB and S/PDIF can be avoided althogether. There are devices that use neither S/PDIF nor USB to get music from a computer, e.g. Squeezebox and DLNA (http://www.dlna.org/home) devices, and also PS Audio's PerfectWave Bridge (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-bridge?cat=audio)device, that retrieve the data via wired or wireless LAN protocols. In these cases jitter is not an inherent problem. My Asus O!Play media play pulls music files from my Windows Home Server via the LAN and delivers the digital stream to my AV receiver via HTML; it also has its own DAC and can output analog. The Asus cost a whopping $80.

Or if you're using a computer music player you would ideally use a well-designed, RFI/EMI resistant sound card with its own DAC and forget about an external DAC altogether. Plenty of people do despite that though purist audiophile distain the very idea. If I'm not mistaken, card with at good reputation is the "prosumer" E-MU 1212M (http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?product=9872); this costs $170.

[Ajani]

Do you mean extra storage and fuss of handling CDs vs. computer files?

In my own system I have never found the one-box player to be better than the computer with decent DAC, but "results may vary" as they say.

If RGA is indeed talking about the extra storage and fuss of CDs, then for me the answer is NEVER.

I just can't go back to using a CD player after using a music Server... My first server was a Mac Mini (AAC files, not lossless) direct to a Rotel Preamp (no DAC) versus entry level NAD and Marantz CD players... Even though I heard some improvement using the dedicated CD players over the MAC, the shear convenience of the music server killed my use of the CD player...

So now I'd much rather just add a high quality DAC and use a streamer/computer/etc...

[Feanor]

If RGA is indeed talking about the extra storage and fuss of CDs, then for me the answer is NEVER.

I just can't go back to using a CD player after using a music Server... My first server was a Mac Mini (AAC files, not lossless) direct to a Rotel Preamp (no DAC) versus entry level NAD and Marantz CD players... Even though I heard some improvement using the dedicated CD players over the MAC, the shear convenience of the music server killed my use of the CD player...

So now I'd much rather just add a high quality DAC and use a streamer/computer/etc...
Absolutely! :thumbsup:

[Mr Peabody]

How is scrolling through all those songs looking for the one you want easier than just dropping the CD in? I know where all my CD's are, well.. except one, I haven't been able to find my War, Best Of in quite some time. I think it takes a special type of person to navigate menus.

[poppachubby]

Well guys it looks like I may be joining the ranks of a high end computer server. I am almost there, but have decided that a CDP will take a backseat for now. There are a couple of things to do, such as a DAC upgrade, purchase of a Squeezebox and some more hard drive space.

My ability to rip LPs has hit an all time high. The quality is such that I don't feel the need to purchase any CDs. Instead I can focus my money into the LP, and rip for digital purposes. If I need a disc, I will still be capable.

BTW Feanor that EM-U device is killer. Their entire line is great, really professional type gear...all business. I think if my Creative ever dies, I will go with EM-U for certain. There's a whole bunch of guys on AK who use them, and love them.

Anyhow, how's the DAC sound in the Squeezebox? Ajani?

I have a line on the original PSAudio Ultralink for $150. Yes, yes, yes I know, it's old and yaddy yaddy. It only does 16/44.1, but you know what? It does it extremely well and the outputs are top notch. It's still an excellent sounding machine and a good start for where I am going.

OK folks, domo ori gato Mr. Chubbsbato

[Ajani]

How is scrolling through all those songs looking for the one you want easier than just dropping the CD in? I know where all my CD's are, well.. except one, I haven't been able to find my War, Best Of in quite some time. I think it takes a special type of person to navigate menus.

I would not suggest scrolling... Using search and entering the name (or first few letters) of the song/album/artist you want to hear is much much much faster than scrolling or selecting CDs from a stack (and I don't need to get out of my seat to change CD)....

Also, for the most part I use playlists.... so for example I'll have a Reggae playlist with 30 songs I love, that flow together... so I sit in my chair and hit play... rather than getting up around 30 times to change CDs...

Also I can use that same playlist whether I'm in my bedroom at my computer or in my living room at my stereo... so no need to move a stack of CDs back and forth between rooms...

Mr. P, you really just need to play around with a music server for awhile to see how convenient it is...

[poppachubby]

Hmmmm, the price seems right on this unit. I thought that Zanden already had the championship belt of highly musical, analog sounding digital.

Yamada is my kind of guy. He has focused on RBCD playback at 16/44.1 and believes that Philips chips and die cast CDM are the best ever made. Obviously he has heavily modified everything. I think his philosophy is a great one. I would rather have 16/44.1 done extremely well, than a machine that "does it all" not so great.



The model 2500 is a cool $20K USD...


http://www.audioconsultants.co.uk/images/products/digital/pop-up/Zanden-2500-CD-Player--001.jpg


Of course, for a bit more pocket change, the ultimate in digital reproduction is the model 5000 DAC and 2000 transport. Combined for a small fee of approx. $50K USD.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/pics/zanden_5000_signature.jpg

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/pics/zanden_2000_premium.jpg

[Ajani]

Well guys it looks like I may be joining the ranks of a high end computer server. I am almost there, but have decided that a CDP will take a backseat for now. There are a couple of things to do, such as a DAC upgrade, purchase of a Squeezebox and some more hard drive space.

My ability to rip LPs has hit an all time high. The quality is such that I don't feel the need to purchase any CDs. Instead I can focus my money into the LP, and rip for digital purposes. If I need a disc, I will still be capable.

BTW Feanor that EM-U device is killer. Their entire line is great, really professional type gear...all business. I think if my Creative ever dies, I will go with EM-U for certain. There's a whole bunch of guys on AK who use them, and love them.

Anyhow, how's the DAC sound in the Squeezebox? Ajani?

I have a line on the original PSAudio Ultralink for $150. Yes, yes, yes I know, it's old and yaddy yaddy. It only does 16/44.1, but you know what? It does it extremely well and the outputs are top notch. It's still an excellent sounding machine and a good start for where I am going.

OK folks, domo ori gato Mr. Chubbsbato

The DAC in my Squeezebox (Classic) is nothing special, so even your old ultralink might be an upgrade... Though I have heard that the new Squeezebox Touch has a much better DAC than the classic.... So it might be good enough to use on its own (at least until you are ready to buy a higher quality external DAC)...

Be careful though PoppaC, Music Server laziness is contagious and you might find that despite preferring the sound of your vinyl, you spend more and more time listening to the music server instead...

[poppachubby]

How is scrolling through all those songs looking for the one you want easier than just dropping the CD in? I know where all my CD's are, well.. except one, I haven't been able to find my War, Best Of in quite some time. I think it takes a special type of person to navigate menus.

If you had to search 1000 CDs for one title vs. 1000 files for one title...it wouldn't be much of a race. I am all for discs but this is not an area in which they come out on top.

A good program such as Media Monkey can be configured extremely well. You can create efficiencies based on your personal style, that being how you file and retrieve.

Furthemore, my Creative card has a remote control. I can serach my music remotely by genre, group and album. This requires an organized database, but the work is well worth it.

[poppachubby]

The DAC in my Squeezebox (Classic) is nothing special, so even your old ultralink might be an upgrade... Though I have heard that the new Squeezebox Touch has a much better DAC than the classic.... So it might be good enough to use on its own (at least until you are ready to buy a higher quality external DAC)...

Be careful though PoppaC, Music Server laziness is contagious and you might find that despite preferring the sound of your vinyl, you spend more and more time listening to the music server instead...

Ya thanks. I must admit when I first got the Creative, the remote control feature had me in it's clutches.

The PSUL is a super smooth DAC with nice detail, again limited to 16/44. We'll see how it all unfolds. I am trying to do things as "cheaply" as possible as i still have things to do with my analog end.

I will look at the big picture and see. I may just hold off until the timing is better. However I am really enjoying the rips I am getting right now.

[RGA]

Do you mean extra storage and fuss of handling CDs vs. computer files?

In my own system I have never found the one-box player to be better than the computer with decent DAC, but "results may vary" as they say.

Yes I mean the extra space and handling of CDs - with a computer you can buy a USB powered hard drive the size of an iPod that holds 1Tb for $129 on sale. That's a LOT of music in lossless compression.

As for sound it's all in what you've auditioned - perhaps you've not tried a very good cd player in your system. I am not really thrilled with most CD players.

[Feanor]

Yes I mean the extra space and handling of CDs ...

As for sound it's all in what you've auditioned - perhaps you've not tried a very good cd player in your system. I am not really thrilled with most CD players.
True, I haven't had anything CDP I'd call high-end in my system, but then for that matter, I haven't had a high-end DAC either.

It's still an open debate whether integral player is necessarily better than computer. Theoretically computer should be as good, maybe better but it all depends on the implemenation. In the case of computer, there is typically more variables to that might mess things up. Likely a really high-end player or matched transport + DAC combo would sound best -- but likely not by much vs. an h-e DAC, and the computer interface is indispensible as far as I'm concerned, (using Foobar2000 or J.River Jukebox as the player on Windows 7).

In my right mind I personally won't go higher than the Ayre QB-9 DAC, regardless of how much money I had. (Note I did say "in my right mind".)

[Mr Peabody]

Being computer based I knew there had to be some way to retreive the music quickly.. Making playlists would be cool.

Actually, Poppa, I still may lose the race but I know right where each of my CD's are. They're not alphabetized, but more separated by genre and I some how am just able to remember on what shelf or rack they are in. Sometimes I really throw myself for a loop when I call myself reorganizing them. Then I have to remember what i was thinking at the time :)

[RGA]

Feanor

This is why I own a 300 disc player. My plan was to buy an external DAC since the DAC to me has more influence on the sound. Why I say that was going back to the Arcam Alpha series. The 7 through 9 had the same physical machine with a modular dac that could be removed and upgraded later. The improvement was all in the DAC, So why not have the 300 disc mega changer feature set with a very good DAC and conceivably you could get far better sound than an Alpha 9 but with way way more features and ease of access.

I just have the plans and never get to them because other things come up. And now the 300 disc players have given way to the computer storage. While I still believe Peter is on to something about the time domain continuum of digital replay and the kind of single ended non feedback analogy of a zero times oversampling no error correction (by the player) no noise shaping and filtering it is a very small minority of makers that have copied or followed the approach through. So unless you have auditioned really AN or Zanden at the higher price levels and perhaps 47labs at the lower levels that "sound" from digital I have not heard from anyone else including EMM Labs. That doesn't mean those others won't be preferred but I usually recommend them for audition "all the time" and thus for many (too much) but if people have gone through their 10th CD player all using delta sigma Burr Browns of over and upsampling methodologies and still complain about digital then it's almost an automatic go-to recommendation to be assured of a "different sound" letting the end user make the call if it's better or not.

Your point though is not lost on me. How much sound will you trade for convenience? I would trade some sound quality I get 500% more user friendliness. A single disc player with a basic screen with moving parts that can fail versus buying 3 hard drives using 2 of them as back-ups at today''s prices could be under $400 for 3 one TB drives. What kind of transport can you buy for $400? DACs last and while the Ayre is $3k that is because this is still relatively new. Wait till companies out of China or from Grant Fidelity and the like bring out as good or better for $500.

[IBSTORMIN]

You take a CD, take some of the information out of it and compress it, call it an MP3 or WAV. Then you buy expensive equipment to try to make it sound it's best. Why not just pop the CD in a player and enjoy the original unedited version with all the information still there?

[RGA]

You take a CD, take some of the information out of it and compress it, call it an MP3 or WAV. Then you buy expensive equipment to try to make it sound it's best. Why not just pop the CD in a player and enjoy the original unedited version with all the information still there?

It's all about convenience. You can hook up an iPod to new Car Decks and it will control the iPod and thus on long trips you can let it play thousands of songs without the need for changing cd's or carrying a huge case that only carries 40-60 albums. Especially a pain for the one hit wonders.

Even at home - I like a song from Billy Vera and the Beater's (At This Moment) - I like one song and it's a pain to get up and change CD's for one song. So what happens is I don't play it and that album fills up a box somewhere. With Mp3 you get that one song into the play list more often.

Mp3 is great for that. So while I still prefer the better CD players for the quality (and Vinyl) mp3 has a big draw when it comes to actually playing more music in the collection. This is why I bought a 300 disc player years back. It was for those one hit wonders while I would keep the CD's I listen all the way through out of that 300 disc machine.

It's about the music first and the quality of said music is second. I see too many people spending $30,000 on gear for their 40 albums.

[Feanor]

You take a CD, take some of the information out of it and compress it, call it an MP3 or WAV. Then you buy expensive equipment to try to make it sound it's best. Why not just pop the CD in a player and enjoy the original unedited version with all the information still there?
Are you misunderstanding, IB? In the first place if you rip to WAV, AIFF, FLAC, ALAC, APE or other lossless format, there is no loss of information.

Do you think it's easier to use a CD player? Well, once you have ripped your CDs it is certainly not easier. And I rarely use my CD player anymore; (the last time was when I had minor network issue a few weeks ago -- I store my music files on a server in the basement). There are other computer solutions, but I use a dedicated music computer where I use the Foobar2000 music player. This program allows me to list my entire music collection by any genre, artist, album, and composer (which is especially important to me, a mainly classicl listner). Compare this point & click to rummaging through stacks or shelves of CDs. BTW, the sound is at least as good as from my CDP.

(See my stereo configuration below for some more configuration info.)

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/Foobar_example700.jpg

[IBSTORMIN]

It's about the music first and the quality of said music is second.

I feel differently. It's about the Quality first or why bother listening. As I have upgraded my home system I have quit listening to the stereo in my car. I don't enjoy it anymore because after a few minutes of listening to get my music fix, I realize it sounds like crap. I purchased a Toshiba Gigabeat which was not as convenient, did not have as many accessories, etc, etc because it sounded better than I-pod when I compared the two, at least at the time. Just my take on things.

[IBSTORMIN]

Are you misunderstanding, IB? In the first place if you rip to WAV, AIFF, FLAC, ALAC, APE or other lossless format, there is no loss of information.

Maybe it's just me, but I hear a difference. I also hear a difference in burned CD's and only play the originals. It's a curse.

[Feanor]

Maybe it's just me, but I hear a difference. I also hear a difference in burned CD's and only play the originals. It's a curse.
There are various technical reasons why there might be audible differences so it isn't necessarily "just you".

On the other hand it's most likely just you. When I play back lossless computer files vs. CDs via the same DAC I hear no difference. Then too some people insist that a carefully configure computer sounds better than a CD player -- and there are technical reasons why this might be so.

[IBSTORMIN]

--and there are technical reasons why this might be so.

Which are??? Don't keep me hanging.

I also thought that "lossless" are not truly without loss, they supposedly take out what you will not miss, so they say.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm still a CD guy but I do have this article that compares hard drive to CD
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/nugent.htm