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poppachubby
08-24-2010, 06:41 AM
Of course, for those of us in the know, not much needs to be said about Reference 3A.

I have available to me, for $60.00, a vintage pair. They have no model number however I have some info on them. They are 26 lbs each, 25" * 12.5" * 10.5", 50 watt RMS continuous, 30 - 35Khz. They were manufactured in Nice, France in 1980.

Everything appears in excellent condition and of course, sound magical.

At this price point, I will be buying them regardless. This is the only way I will be owning anything with the 3A logo on it.

I'm just wondering what, if anything is known about 3A at this stage of the companies progress.

If anyone has specific knowledge of this speaker, how would it weigh against my Missions? The 707 is hardly a perfect speaker, BUT, synergistically matches my gear amazingly. The reknown low mid hump is handled well by my room treatment. They image above average and are a joy to listen to.

I have fired off an email to Reference 3A so hopefully I get some help from that end.

Thanks all!

http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/kj/100819/386r8/9086dh4_20.jpeg

tube fan
08-24-2010, 06:58 AM
Absolutely a great price!!! Enjoy them, they are a very good speakers. I found that eliminating my carpet improved the mid-bass accuracy a lot (went from thick carpet to tile). Good luck!

poppachubby
08-24-2010, 08:31 AM
Thanks. The seller will not hold them for me. He is strictly "first come first served". Hopefully I get my cash in on time, however, 3A is an audiophile secret, and his ad is not the most convincing.

JohnMichael
08-25-2010, 05:11 PM
Poppachubby did you get the speakers. I hope you were quick enough. I have recently listened to a few Reference 3A speakers and boy they could almost empty your wallet they were sounding so good. One day I will have a pair. I have not heard this model but I sure like the way they look.

poppachubby
08-25-2010, 05:29 PM
John I won't have the cash until next Thursday. As I already posted, his ad is not very appealing and actually doesn't even mention 3A. It says "stereo speakers made in France". I will cross my fingers that no one beats me to it. If I do get them, I am starting to feel that they'll trump the 707's with ease.

JohnMichael
08-25-2010, 06:03 PM
John I won't have the cash until next Thursday. As I already posted, his ad is not very appealing and actually doesn't even mention 3A. It says "stereo speakers made in France". I will cross my fingers that no one beats me to it. If I do get them, I am starting to feel that they'll trump the 707's with ease.


Use any cash you might have thought about mailing.

poppachubby
08-26-2010, 02:47 AM
Use any cash you might have thought about mailing.


Borrow from Paul to pay Peter... no John, I won't be doing that. If i allow myself to do that, the line will become blurred. That money is spent.

I have found out some more thanks to the kind folks at AK. This pair are not Reference 3A...just 3A. Apparently 3A began in France, was bought out and moved to Switzerland, changed their name to Reference 3A and began producing in Canada (of course).

The pair pictued in this thread are 3A Apogees. Man I hope I can net these, I think this may be a really good score. I think I may talk to my wife about dipping into some savings cash.

The chart on the far left has the specs...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227332&d=1282772653

http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!B0u8bLQEWk~$(KGrHqIOKnUEw9C,gcTMBMblOvoL0g~~_12.J PG

poppachubby
08-26-2010, 01:02 PM
I got em!! They are gorgeous. They have a proprietary plug, I will have to split it and splice. Anyone seen one of these before?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4930439840_9d3e5477f7_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4930441702_4a72da8a8d_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4929853771_4d60386c29_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4929854983_33e764b98f_z.jpg

RGA
08-26-2010, 01:24 PM
If you want more info on them I believe UHF magazine might be able to help you out. They were big fans of the 3a speakers back in the day before they had the "Reference" put in front. You may be able to get a review of them in their back issue section. Nice find.

poppachubby
08-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Oh Rich man, they sound tremendous...got some Prince on, Lovesexy...whoa...

frenchmon
08-26-2010, 01:58 PM
What sound...Lively?

poppachubby
08-26-2010, 03:40 PM
What sound...Lively?


Still listening, but quickly...

most neutral I have owned, still dynamically excellent with good recording, 92db/6ohms but they are not "loud", detail surpasses the Missions,

I would say, no they are not lively but more like a magnepan would be in expression. They have my attention, that's for sure. They don't image as well as the Missions.

poppachubby
08-26-2010, 06:01 PM
Well...what can I say?

First of all, god bless the seller. An old man, living about 20 minutes out of town. A small rural town. He was using an 8 track player with mono RCA speaker cables. I would venture to say they have been lightly used. He clearly wasn't an audiophile, and had no real clue as to the value. This is possibly dollar for dollar the best value I have ever scored. $60!! A quick Google search showed a sale in 2009 for $300.

I will compare these speakers to my Mission 707, since they were the last pair in the reference system.

Upon first listen, it was a bit of a shock. Firstly they aren't as "loud" and the imaging isn't as accurate as the 707. That feeling slowly eroded as the Apogees began to show themselves.

The stage is huge, with more realistic depth than I have ever heard in my system. The imaging is great, but the 707 is deadly. Where these make up is with integration. The full stage is seamless, from extreme left to right.

The 3A's are extremely neutral. That said they are remarkably dynamic. The bass is punchier, highs are super smooth. The 707's lack in the low mid region whereas the Apogees have no such compromise.

Overall, detail and seperation is phenomenal. Low level detail is extremely audible, and an integral part of the mix. I find it keeps me stuck to my seat, ultra engaging presentation.

Even as i write this, I have been pausing and turning my head towards the music. It just invites you in. The immediacy is truly grand.

So far I've thrown about 6 or 7 jazz LPs, some Prince, Robbie Robertson, The Who and Zappa.

If this is 3A's bottom of the line, I will be forever looking for something further up the line. That goes for all of you guys out there, these are a super value, even at 2 or 300 bucks.

RGA
08-26-2010, 06:02 PM
Awesome - from the pic they have an interesting driver arrangement. My wharfedales have the tweeter and mid slight to one side but each speaker the drivers are opposite the other. The 3A speaker are on the same side. I have not seen that before I don't think. The only older review I could find was UHF number 24 but it is the 3a MM (before the DeCapo) and MS5 http://uhfmag.com/Individualissue.html

I know they loved Dehay's designs because they use their top of the line La Suprema as their reference speakers. And I almost bought the Reference 3A MM De Capo which I had been targetting for a couple of year but went with something else.

poppachubby
08-26-2010, 06:31 PM
Awesome - from the pic they have an interesting driver arrangement. My wharfedales have the tweeter and mid slight to one side but each speaker the drivers are opposite the other. The 3A speaker are on the same side. I have not seen that before I don't think. The only older review I could find was UHF number 24 but it is the 3a MM (before the DeCapo) and MS5 http://uhfmag.com/Individualissue.html

I know they loved Dehay's designs because they use their top of the line La Suprema as their reference speakers. And I almost bought the Reference 3A MM De Capo which I had been targetting for a couple of year but went with something else.


Thanks Rich. Frankly, I'm stoked. The Dynaco A25 has the same issue with the non symmetrical tweeter. I have seen pairs that are mirrored, and guys usually make a big fuss about it. They are sought after.

JohnMichael
08-26-2010, 07:19 PM
Well...what can I say?

First of all, god bless the seller. An old man, living about 20 minutes out of town. A small rural town. He was using an 8 track player with mono RCA speaker cables. I would venture to say they have been lightly used. He clearly wasn't an audiophile, and had no real clue as to the value. This is possibly dollar for dollar the best value I have ever scored. $60!! A quick Google search showed a sale in 2009 for $300.

I will compare these speakers to my Mission 707, since they were the last pair in the reference system.

Upon first listen, it was a bit of a shock. Firstly they aren't as "loud" and the imaging isn't as accurate as the 707. That feeling slowly eroded as the Apogees began to show themselves.

The stage is huge, with more realistic depth than I have ever heard in my system. The imaging is great, but the 707 is deadly. Where these make up is with integration. The full stage is seamless, from extreme left to right.

The 3A's are extremely neutral. That said they are remarkably dynamic. The bass is punchier, highs are super smooth. The 707's lack in the low mid region whereas the Apogees have no such compromise.

Overall, detail and seperation is phenomenal. Low level detail is extremely audible, and an integral part of the mix. I find it keeps me stuck to my seat, ultra engaging presentation.

Even as i write this, I have been pausing and turning my head towards the music. It just invites you in. The immediacy is truly grand.

So far I've thrown about 6 or 7 jazz LPs, some Prince, Robbie Robertson, The Who and Zappa.

If this is 3A's bottom of the line, I will be forever looking for something further up the line. That goes for all of you guys out there, these are a super value, even at 2 or 300 bucks.



Sometimes imaging can be improved upon by using material around the tweeter. In the past I have used self adhesive foam weather stripping and self adhesive felt furniture protectors. When these are used they cut down on diffraction and then imaging improves. More fun and experiments.

tube fan
08-27-2010, 08:13 AM
Poppa, your new look is beautiful. What a find!

Geoffcin
08-27-2010, 09:00 AM
It looks like the've time-aligned the drivers in these speaker. Should make for a very coherent presentation. I also find it interesting that they rate the speaker to 35kHz! Perhaps the French have dog like hearing response?!

Congrats on the new speakers!

poppachubby
08-27-2010, 11:21 AM
Thanks for all the comments guys...

RGA
08-27-2010, 12:04 PM
You got them for $60. You know that truly is a great find. Even if you have to refoam them for $20-$50 down the line you get a very good speaker with a huge following. I thought I did well getting those Tannoy speakers for $60 at a pawn shop but I would FAR FAR rather have the 3a speakers. Quite an excellent find.

I am looking to build a second system - the Tannoys are it for a short time until I see something like those "real" finds like the 3a come up. I have the Rotel 1082 preamp but after I finished my reivew of the GF PM 150 power amps I have no power amp to go with it. So I am looking at used power amps and good second hand speakers - or I could get the Wharfedales fixed up but I want to take the adjustable corssovers out of the picture.

My dealer likes PS Audio used and so in fact does the guy who makes my tube equipment since he sold it for years, so I may give them a try with the Rotel.

Can you describe what you like about the speakers. I am guessing they will have a somewhat similar presentation to the De Capo? I like the original De Capo over the i designated models.

In fact the Mission speakers you had were no slouches - I always felt Mission was more than a bit underrated.

poppachubby
08-27-2010, 12:35 PM
Rich, first of all, a compliment about speakers from you is worth it's weight in gold. I figure anytime i can get you, Ralph or Terrence aroused, I have done well.

You want my honest opinion? I think the Mission 700 series from the 80's may very well be the best used value out there. Underrated is the truth. My 707s are not perfect however, and I think their compromises would drive you crazy, after reading your preferences. You should keep your eyes peeled for the 780 Argo, they are off the chain.

I was fortunate to see the ad at all. It was very non descript, with no mention of the brand name at all. He mentioned "made in France" and that's what prompted me to contact him. While picking them up, he was telling me that he had several calls offering to buy. I got in just in time.

I tried to describe the sound in post 13. They are extremely detailed with a bass that's punchy, highs which are smooth. I would liken the delivery to a Magnepan or similar type of speaker in that while they are certainly loud enough, they are not a "loud" speaker. Indeed the compromise for sheer volume is superb integration. Keep in mind the Apogee is the bottom of the line for 3A.

I am all about immediacy these days. If it does not compliment my rig, and grab my attention, it gets relegated to the H/T or comp.

Rich, the Tannoys sound nice. have you heard any vintage Angstrom? There is a pair locally for less than $100, they are a great sounding pair.

poppachubby
08-27-2010, 12:41 PM
I am listening to Al Cohn w/ Herb Ellis. I should add that there is a real sense of depth and spatiality. Lots of air around the players, and audible reverberation between the channels which really brings that realism out of the recording. The presentation is truly grand.

Edit...Rich while looking for the original ad, I found this. The seller of my pair has taken it down, I wanted you to check it out. Look at this pair!! Quite a price, shipping would prove costly....

http://london.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-electronics-Audiophile-Speakers-3a-360-W0QQAdIdZ209411906

MikeyBC
08-28-2010, 05:07 PM
Hell 'I'd consider a nice long drive to get those at that price....unless your 20 hours from London On.

RGA
08-30-2010, 08:35 AM
I am listening to Al Cohn w/ Herb Ellis. I should add that there is a real sense of depth and spatiality. Lots of air around the players, and audible reverberation between the channels which really brings that realism out of the recording. The presentation is truly grand.

Edit...Rich while looking for the original ad, I found this. The seller of my pair has taken it down, I wanted you to check it out. Look at this pair!! Quite a price, shipping would prove costly....

http://london.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-electronics-Audiophile-Speakers-3a-360-W0QQAdIdZ209411906

Those look to be in excellent shape for $250. But I am at the other end of the country.

hifitommy
09-06-2010, 11:17 AM
talk about LUCK. what a great score, glad you didnt miss them. i know i am late for the train here but i just happened on this thread.

just the kind of luck i had in stumbling upon my arc sp3a1 for $160!

poppachubby
09-06-2010, 12:18 PM
Thanks Tommy I am enjoying the hell out of them.