thinking of getting a VAC CLA-1

[Father Time]

I was about to pull the trigger on a audio research L something tube preamp for $1600 for my VTL st85 tube amp, then found this VAC. I guess they were involved with the marantz 7 and some other super high end tube stuff and I can pick the Vac up for $445. I think that the blue book was alot higher on the VAC, and it's really supposed to be nice. I'll be running the VTL st85 tube amp with a jolida tube 100 cd player in the rare black for $600 and what ever tube preamp I pick up. I would appreciate some help from the tube experts here! IF THE VAC is all that, I will pick that up and save a considerable amount of change to get some good interconnects, etc... please let me know what you think. Thanks!!!!
Also selling all my really nice SS gear: mcintosh mc250 with a MX113 preamp/tuner, all the marantz stuff below, a primo pioneer SX-1250 and a like new in box SX-980, 2 top of the line pioneer quads and about 20 other receivers and speakers, most everything below. I live in Tucson, az.
But first and foremost, need the preamp info. Thanks,
Father Time.
If I get the VAC I will need to know the best tubes to get ! thanks

[poppachubby]

Oh Father Time you are back from the future, or is it the past this time?

Preamps huh? I am curious what your long term goals are for sources, just a CDP or would you be adding vinyl at all. Also, what's your total budget for this purchase?

Keep in mind that an ARC pre amp is a lifetime purchase. The type of piece you never get rid of, because you'll never need to. I am unfamiliar with the VAC, but will look into it. I have to wonder, would the VAC hold your interest for good?

The only thing I don't like about you getting the ARC, is that it's alot of cash if you haven't auditioned it. While it's unlikely you won't like it, imagine how you would feel if you didn't.

The VAC has that ring of protection around it, if you don't like it, you can prbably get your cash back out. Have you listened to any ARC gear?

[Father Time]

actually wasn't looking at an arc...

[poppachubby]

actually wasn't looking at an arc...

Sorry, ARC is short for Audio Research Corporation. You said this...



I was about to pull the trigger on a audio research L something tube preamp for $1600

[poppachubby]

Yes, I have read about VAC briefly. I recall now. They only make a couple of different pieces. i would say they are well regarded by deal seeking audiophiles. I think the VAC with a set of top shelf NOS tubes would do you fine. Indeed the money saved could be spent on esoteric cables, or even better, some music.

The other consideration I was asking you about is whther or not you want a phono stage. VAC make a full feature pre amp with phono, or a basic without. you would need to add an external pre amp if you wanted vinyl with your CLA.

If you are indeed budgeted for an ARC pre amp, i would suggest auditioning one. They are pre amp royalty, and would be suited for your wonderful MC 250, another legend. I would imagine the difference in build and sonics between the Vac and ARC would be sizable, but only a listen would prove this.

Good luck!

[Hyfi]

I have the VAC CLA1 MKII. It was $6500 when new and considered a Reference Pre Amp by many including Stereophile and other HE magazines. If it is the same as mine, it has a 20lb outboard power supply, a Passive-Normal-High Gain switch. It uses 2 12AU7s and 2 12AX7s. For a couple hundred bucks ($300-$500) you could send the unit to RHB Sound Dezign and have it brought back to original or better condition. I plan to do it at some time but the one I got worked fine when I got it after new tubes were used. Keep in mind, the unit is basically dual mono with 2 volume knobs. Also, if you plan to to use a sub from your pre, you will have to use only one single cable to the sub unless you go speaker level as no matter how you attempt to use a Y-splitter, it will short the pre to mono only, even after a AV switchbox. That being said, because of the VAC design, there is the needed LF from eithr channel. As far as the best tubes question goes, that is always subjective as to what someone prefers. Out of budget constraints, I was suggested to run the JJ Tesla tubes which sound fine. I rolled a few older Sovtek tubes with good results also.

What color faceplate? Mine is the Gold faced. See this link post 85-
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=27977&page=3

[Father Time]

The preamp I was looking at was the audio research LS15 and he wanted $1600 for it. Can Anyone get get the bluebook for me? My amp that I will be using with the preamp is the VTL Pure Tube ST85. But I came across the VAC CLA-1 (don't use phono) for only $445. There are lots of positive articles about this preamp! Also will be using the Jolida JD100 tube cd. I have heard the audio research and the jolida and the VTL demoed for me through some martin logan's and they sounded unbelievable! But if the VAC is that good,
I can save some serious $ and get some other stuff I need. Help me out here as I'm ready to make a move tomorrow. Thanks guys!

[poppachubby]

I trust what HyFi has added here. What are you asking. Is the ARC as good as the VAC? Or... Which is the better deal?

I don't think the VAC would be as good as the ARC, but who knows, maybe synergy with your exact components would prove otherwise.

As I already stated, the VAC is a great value for a good pre. You can get your money back out should you decide to upgrade. Put in a nice set of NOS Amperex or Mullard tubes and you're ready to rock.

You may as well try out the VAC at this point. You can always sell and go back to the ARC.

Let us know...

[frenchmon]

Father Time PM sent.

[Father Time]

Thanks poppachubby! Already heard the audio research. LS 15 and it sounds ridiculously good! The VAC has the gold face is not as attractive as the arc. I'm hoping I can save some $for other stuff and that vac is as a good a preamp the arc is? I will audition the VAC in the morning and let you know. Wish me luck!

[JoeE SP9]

As a long time ARC preamp user I'm putting in my plug for their preamps. I've used three preamps in the last 25+ years. All three of them have been from ARC. If and when I replace my SP-9 it will be with another ARC.

[poppachubby]

As a long time ARC preamp user I'm putting in my plug for their preamps. I've used three preamps in the last 25+ years. All three of them have been from ARC. If and when I replace my SP-9 it will be with another ARC.

"If and when I sell Chubbs my SP9..."

[JoeE SP9]

It's your's when the time comes.

[bobsticks]

C'mon...$4 bills, seriously? That's a "no-brainer"...grab the VAC. I think VAC has been unfairly characterized as sort of a second-rate dealio. While certainly not of ARC stature VAC is pretty solid stuff...certainly worth the price of a decent dinner at an upscale brasserie...plus, as has been said, you can always recoup though I'd be surprised if you felt it necessary.

[poppachubby]

C'mon...$4 bills, seriously? That's a "no-brainer"...grab the VAC. I think VAC has been unfairly characterized as sort of a second-rate dealio. While certainly not of ARC stature VAC is pretty solid stuff...certainly worth the price of a decent dinner at an upscale brasserie...plus, as has been said, you can always recoup though I'd be surprised if you felt it necessary.

While I hate spending a guy's hard earned cash also, let's not stop him from indulging either.

When you made the move to high end Mac/Martin Logan, what were the naysayers telling you then? I'm sure you made the jump knowing it would most likely be the last move you would need to make.

I feel like if he is budgeted for an ARC or something of similar stature, he should make the move if it proves to be the best move to make. Indeed, I'm sure he could find something ARC, more reasonably priced at Agon.

[Father Time]

[QUOTE=Hyfi]I have the VAC CLA1 MKII. It was $6500 when new and considered a Reference Pre Amp by many including Stereophile and other HE magazines. If it is the same as mine, it has a 20lb outboard power supply, a Passive-Normal-High Gain switch. It uses 2 12AU7s and 2 12AX7s. For a couple hundred bucks ($300-$500) you could send the unit to RHB Sound Dezign and have it brought back to original or better condition. I plan to do it at some time but the one I got worked fine when I got it after new tubes were used. Keep in mind, the unit is basically dual mono with 2 volume knobs. Also, if you plan to to use a sub from your pre, you will have to use only one single cable to the sub unless you go speaker level as no matter how you attempt to use a Y-splitter, it will short the pre to mono only, even after a AV switchbox. That being said, because of the VAC design, there is the needed LF from eithr channel. As far as the best tubes question goes, that is always subjective as to what someone prefers. Out of budget constraints, I was suggested to run the JJ Tesla tubes which sound fine. I rolled a few older Sovtek tubes with good results also.




Thanks for the info... I did pull the trigger on the VAC CLA-1 MK2 (in mint condition} after I auditioned it because it sounded really good, maybe not as good as the arc ls15, but $1100 cheaper! and very clean! Wilson's sales person was even impressed as they only have solid state. Then I went and listened to the arc ls15 and it was awesome, but passed for now, and picked up the Jolida 100a tube cd which sounded awesome also! and got that for $600 with the original tubes and upgraded tubes and in mint condition. I just couldn't afford the $1500 for the arc right now. Maybe in a few weeks... I have always wanted tubes but could never afford it, now I have a nice set up. Just have to get some killer speakers! I have about 10 pairs so will have to check them out.
will post some photos later!

[poppachubby]

Great! You made the right move, considering the ARC was out of your reach financially. The gear sounds great. Please post some pics and opinions once you're up and running.

[Father Time]

It was a no brainer! it was mint, had the killer power supply with the the high end cord and sounded sweet. I will hook it all together and figure out what speakers that will sound the best. i guess that I will need really efficient speakers to get the best sound? I've got all the way to 96 decibels.Now got to sell all my ss gear. got all the legends. Any input would be appreciated! Or anyone want to trade some classic ss receivers for some speakers?

[poppachubby]

When combining speakers with tube gear, it's more than just sensitivity to consider. There are impedance specs at play also.

To give you an example, my Sound Dynamics are 102db sensitive. However, they sound like dog crap with my Golden Tube. It's just not a good fit.

I'm not sure how many wpc your amp puts out, but you'd be surprised with the right combo, how low you can get the sensitivity spec.

Presently my speakers are 91db, however my amp puts out 40 wpc and is powerful for a tube amp.

Mix and match, but don't be afraid to try all of you pairs out. Unless the result is atrocious, try to spend a day or 2 with each.

[Hyfi]

Thanks for the info... I did pull the trigger on the VAC CLA-1 MK2 (in mint condition} after I auditioned it because it sounded really good, maybe not as good as the arc ls15, but $1100 cheaper! and very clean! Wilson's sales person was even impressed as they only have solid state. Then I went and listened to the arc ls15 and it was awesome, but passed for now, and picked up the Jolida 100a tube cd which sounded awesome also! and got that for $600 with the original tubes and upgraded tubes and in mint condition. I just couldn't afford the $1500 for the arc right now. Maybe in a few weeks... I have always wanted tubes but could never afford it, now I have a nice set up. Just have to get some killer speakers! I have about 10 pairs so will have to check them out.
will post some photos later!

Good deal, you won't be disappointed. Try some speakers that excel in midrange.

[bobsticks]

When you made the move to high end Mac/Martin Logan, what were the naysayers telling you then? I'm sure you made the jump knowing it would most likely be the last move you would need to make...

Actually, virtually everyone was telling me not to do it...instead to opt for their specific flavor of the month. I went with my ears instead and found things that would integrate into my room and system with greatest ease.


It was a no brainer! it was mint, had the killer power supply with the the high end cord and sounded sweet. I will hook it all together and figure out what speakers that will sound the best. i guess that I will need really efficient speakers to get the best sound? I've got all the way to 96 decibels.Now got to sell all my ss gear. got all the legends. Any input would be appreciated! Or anyone want to trade some classic ss receivers for some speakers?

Well, any input that I could give would simply be in suggestion form...what maybe to run for a test drive. Clearly you've been around the block a few times and are capable of coming to your own conclusions.

What kind of music do you prefer? What qualities in playback do you value? Neutrality? Lush mids? PRaT? How big is your room? What's your budget?

[Father Time]

Hi Bobsticks,
Just setting up the system right now,,,, Speakers will be a big deal for me. I have some Infinity 5000 at 4 ohms, which will be 85 watts rms through my VTL st 85, some infinity CS 3008, jbl's,sansui's cerwin vega most of the kickass stuff we couldn't afford because we were kids!
Sound really good with the infinity cs 3008, on everything I've tried yet. Nothing like the martin logans I auditoned some stuff through... wow! I guess I'll be looking to upgrade... anyone having something that would be of help, let me know. Listen to rock, blues, jazz etc... little of everything...

[Father Time]

Poppachubby, What speakers must I have... I'm very anal as I played guitar for 46 years. I trust your judgement as you have one on already. Help me out man, I need the best quality sound,,, yet I"m not rich, I could spend a thousand on craigslist.GIve me a clue, poppachubby Thanks...... Or trade some primo solid state! or both

[poppachubby]

Hahahaha. Well Father Time, in all honesty I am NOT a speaker guru. I am however a musician also, I play bass guitar. However, you say up to $1000 which is an excellent budget on the used market.

Before I can make a suggestion, what kind of speakers do you really enjoy? Do you prefer a brighter sound? Neutral?

You could go with a classic horn loaded speaker, like the Klipsch Heresy. Very well suited to tubes. Not the best for low end but super sweet mids and dynamic highs. Klipsch also have other classic models such as the KG series which would be sub 1000 used.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1287282021

http://pic4.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1279137055.jpg

The speakers I usually suggest for people seeking value, AND quality would be Tekton. These are American made, hand crafted and simply wonderful sounding. Single driver design with SET amps in mind. Check out his open baffle design.

Right now he has the model 8.1T on sale for $650. Great deal. You should email him and chat him up, very personable guy who will give you some insight in your search.

http://www.tektondesign.com/model81t.htm

http://www.tektondesign.com/images/model81tmid.jpg

http://www.tektondesign.com/images/obmid2.jpg

Another popular route for tube loving audiophiles, is the DIY kit. Madisound sell some really well regarded stuff. For this kit the cost is under $1000, but the sound would be competitive up to double that. By all means browse the other kits. The Fostex are well regarded and also the SEAS and Scanspeak.

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_158&products_id=1325

https://www.madisound.com/store/images/madisound/product/bk16.jpg


Maybe you would like to try out something truly unique, like a planar. The Magnepan MMG sells directly from Magnepan for under $1000. They have an excellent return policy. Again, with your specific amp, it may be good or maybe not. Alot of tube fans swear by these.

http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG

http://www.magnepan.com/content/binary/speakers/MMG_01.jpg







OK Father Time, that's a start for you. Do some research and try to audition as much as you can locally. There's alot of speakers made with tube amps in mind. It's a real synergistic endeavour. I would also suggest using the search option in the speaker thread, it's your friend. This is not a new topic.

[Hyfi]

With your new(to you) VAC, be prepared to hear some detail you may have been missing.

Enjoy and report back. I hope getting up to manually change the volume all the time is not too much bother. I don't mind since other than my HT, I have never had a remote pre.

[poppachubby]

Hyfi what speakers are you using?

[Hyfi]

Hyfi what speakers are you using?

I use the Clearfield Continentals (von schweikert) and Dynaudio 82s but the former excel in midrange and soundstage and are in the mix right now along with the Stratos amp. The Counterpoint again excels in midrange.

I have also been using passive mode on the pre but not enough time to make any determinations.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=27977&page=3

Post 85

[poppachubby]

Gorgeous set up. I recall that thread, the whole corner treatment "controversy"? Haha. You know your wife loves you when your speakers are bigger than her fridge.

Do you not find the Dyn's excel in bass? I have never heard a pair, but bass seems to always be mentioned.

[Hyfi]

Gorgeous set up. I recall that thread, the whole corner treatment "controversy"? Haha. You know your wife loves you when your speakers are bigger than her fridge.

Do you not find the Dyn's excel in bass? I have never heard a pair, but bass seems to always be mentioned.

Oh, they do excel in bass but at the loss in mids-highs. I love them for sure but have gotten so used to the refined sound and awesome midrange of the VAC-Counterpoint-Clearfields, also using my sub.

I will be dropping the Danes back in soon and may be able to eliminate the sub for a while.

[poppachubby]

Oh man a sub too?!? That Marcus Miller must sound insane through your system. How do you set the sub? For the ultra low I suppose. You've got the HT tied in there too.

[Hyfi]

Oh man a sub too?!? That Marcus Miller must sound insane through your system. How do you set the sub? For the ultra low I suppose. You've got the HT tied in there too.

I'm using and old Realistic (Rat Shack) Audio-Video Switchbox from the late 80s so both Main system and HT can use the sub. Yeah, I know it probably is a loss at some point but I got tired of going behind all the gear to swap the cables every time I watched a movie or went back to audio.

Yes, the Marcus Miller disk is killer and now with my sub up off the floor I get everything one could want but no floor, windows and walls vibrating. Just clear precise bass notes with proper tone and timber.

I set the sub to crossover wherever the instructions said to and set the volume by ear. Then I flip the filter switch and let the HT auto set the sub for movies.

[Hyfi]

Hey Father Time,

Did you get an owners manual with the VAC? If so, would you be willing to scan and share the important parts? Music in return!

[bobsticks]

It was a no brainer! it was mint, had the killer power supply with the the high end cord and sounded sweet. I will hook it all together and figure out what speakers that will sound the best. i guess that I will need really efficient speakers to get the best sound? I've got all the way to 96 decibels.Now got to sell all my ss gear. got all the legends. Any input would be appreciated! Or anyone want to trade some classic ss receivers for some speakers?

I think this is the right approach. I would take some time with some very familiar components/speakers and figure out which elements in the wide variety of music most please you. Given your proclivity for rock itt might be bass slam...or the lush midrange of jazz (and with you being a guitar player it wouldn't surprise me if it were the latter) or perhaps some other quality.

One of the best sub-$1000 used speakers out there is the Martin Logan CLS, and I mention this specifically because you claimed an affinity for ML. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the VTL is up to the impedence swings of the big panel. Your mileafe may vary, but IMO, the current smaller Logans that fall within your price range leave a lot to be desired...and most certainly fall far outside the current sonic signatures to which you're accustomed.

I like poppachubby's suggestions...the horns of the Klipsch rock and single drivers can be interesting though challenging. Aside from the Lowthers the Fostex are highly regarded and can prove a great value for the buck. If you get a chance to sample single-driver crossoverless drivers and find them to your liking you might start testing the waters for something like this:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/cain2/bailey.html

Even used the Abbeys and the Bailey would be a little outside the current price parameter but maybe you'll sell some of those lovely solid state gears in the meantime.

Whatever the case, take some time and acclimate yourself to the new kid on the block and evaluate what you really want.

[manlystanley]

The preamp I was looking at was the audio research LS15 and he wanted $1600 for it. Can Anyone get get the bluebook for me? My amp that I will be using with the preamp is the VTL Pure Tube ST85. But I came across the VAC CLA-1 (don't use phono) for only $445. There are lots of positive articles about this preamp! Also will be using the Jolida JD100 tube cd. I have heard the audio research and the jolida and the VTL demoed for me through some martin logan's and they sounded unbelievable! But if the VAC is that good,
I can save some serious $ and get some other stuff I need. Help me out here as I'm ready to make a move tomorrow. Thanks guys!

Hey FT,
Not sure if you've gotten this yet, but:

Low: $880
Average: $1520
High: $1740

Last $1450

Best Regards,
Stan

[JoeE SP9]

bobsticks;
Where can you find ML CLS's for less than $1000. I'll be first in line for a pair.

[bobsticks]

Lol, there's a pair on the 'Gon right now for a cool grand even. If one could arrange local pickup I would imagine ol' boy would haggle...but I get your point. Nobody is gonna find them for five or six hundy and that should not be inferred.

[Father Time]

Hey Father Time,

Did you get an owners manual with the VAC? If so, would you be willing to scan and share the important parts? Music in return!






No I didn't Hyfi, But the thing sounds unreal, even after I found out the tubes are old... So I'm putting in 2 ( I can't read the previous owners writing) electra harmonix 12ax7 and
2 Phillips military 12au7's in it. I heard the military tubes are good. The owners is giving them to me at cost. So I should hear a lot of difference as the tubes in weren't changed in yrs!:crazy: I am so impressed with the VAC preamp! Can't wait till tomorrow when I put the new tubes in! Still looking to find some appropriate speakers. Would love to do some trading!

[Father Time]

How are the KEF 104/2 speakers? I found a nice pair on CL for $475. Just don't know if they are appropriate for my system.

[bobsticks]

How are the KEF 104/2 speakers? I found a nice pair on CL for $475. Just don't know if they are appropriate for my system.

KEF is the redheaded stepchild of North America. For the record, I love the KEF house sound...I use a pair of Q7s in a secondary system and, frankly, listen to most of my rock fare on them.

At 92dB/W/m at 4 ohms the 104 will perform fairly well with the VTL. They'll give you extended highs and a lush midrange. I believe they extend down to 60 or 65Hz so the bass is of decent clarity but insufficient for fullrange...if you grab 'em be prepared to get a seperate subwoofer.

[Hyfi]

No I didn't Hyfi, But the thing sounds unreal, even after I found out the tubes are old... So I'm putting in 2 ( I can't read the previous owners writing) electra harmonix 12ax7 and
2 Phillips military 12au7's in it. I heard the military tubes are good. The owners is giving them to me at cost. So I should hear a lot of difference as the tubes in weren't changed in yrs!:crazy: I am so impressed with the VAC preamp! Can't wait till tomorrow when I put the new tubes in! Still looking to find some appropriate speakers. Would love to do some trading!

Just a note, I ran into a bad batch of the Electro Harmonix 12au7s from Parts Express last year and found out they had a whole bad run from Quest For Sound where I purchased my JJ Teslas of both 12ax7 and 12au7s.

When I got the preamp, it had EH Gold ax7 tubes in all 4 sockets, which works but not properly. I have been pretty impressed with the unit myself as it replaced an entry level Sound Valves 101i tube pre that I was running for several years.

For the past week I have had the VAC in Passive mode which is being discussed in a different thread about Passive sound but I am liking it except missing the bass slam. Last night I decided to flip my JM Labs Tantal 509 speakers on in the family room, which are driven from same amp as main system thru a niles switchbox and 50ft of rat shack wire, and was very impressed. Sound and soundstage was impressive compared to my mains which are harder to drive.

So with the right speaker combo, passive mode can be a real joy.

It's great to finally have someone to chat with that has the same preamp as I do since they are getting close to vintage and with the original $6500 price tag, not too many people have one.

As I posted earlier, RHB Sound Dezigns do some fabulous work modding and bringing units back to spec. Starting at $300, they will replace all caps and such and then you can go upwards in price from there. I'm willing to bet another $500 would bring both our units back to day 1 sound quality.

PM me if your interested in some trading since it's not so popular around here in the open as it was a few years in the past when comps were king.

[poppachubby]

Father Time, what tubes are in it already? You are moving hastily on the tubes without even hearing them. Just because they're old doesn't mean they don't sound good.

My HF-85 was produced in the 50's/60's. I bought it with the original Mullards, which sound better than most modern production tubes. They have alot of life left, and tested quite strong. Infact, if I were to sell it without the Mullards, and put a typical modern equivelant in, I would get LESS money for it.

There are some great tubes out there, currently being produced, but generally they cost quite a bit.

[Hyfi]

Here is a link to an online PDF Owners Manual for both CPA and CLA units. With or without phono, the rest of the specs should be the same.

http://www.vac-amps.com/Manual_CPA1_Mk3.pdf

[tube fan]

Poppa's right about ARC's preamps. I've owned my ARC SP-8 for 25+ years. However, you got a fantastic price. Poppa's Mullard tubes are right at the top of any tube lovers list! Poppa gets it: get sound you love (for me, this is tubes and analogue), and then concentrate on the music.

[Father Time]

Here is a link to an online PDF Owners Manual for both CPA and CLA units. With or without phono, the rest of the specs should be the same.

http://www.vac-amps.com/Manual_CPA1_Mk3.pdf


Thanks Hyfi! The manual came in really handy as I was wondering about the gain controls... I'm running it in passive right now and I like it although miss the gain but it still can really get loud. Yeah, I'm looking for some speakers for sure, just can't really afford any to be honest till I sell some of my other speakers and ss receivers. I have some very nice vintage SS stuff that I would definitely like to trade for some killer speakers!
Any members in or near Tucson, Arizona?

[Father Time]

I put the new electro-harmonix russian tubes in, got all 4 for around $60 (at cost) from the original owner that I bought it from at wilson audio. The tubes I replaced were some old golden dragon chinese tubes that had been in it for Many years! I have a lot to learn about tubes and the differences of them.
It sounds great, but I guess they have to burn in for awhile, from what I've been told...

[Father Time]

I see some mint Klipsch Heresys on Craigslist in primo cond for $400. would that make me a happy camper?

[Hyfi]

I put the new electro-harmonix russian tubes in, got all 4 for around $60 (at cost) from the original owner that I bought it from at wilson audio. The tubes I replaced were some old golden dragon chinese tubes that had been in it for Many years! I have a lot to learn about tubes and the differences of them.
It sounds great, but I guess they have to burn in for awhile, from what I've been told...

The Golden Dragons are what came in the unit when new. They could have been the originals.

[Father Time]

Well, got lucky and picked up a primo set of Klipsch KG4's and a set of B&W DM580's in excellent cond, cept for a little imperfection on the grill ( hardly noticeable), and a mint B&W ASW 1000 (1000watts) subwoofer. Not to mention a bag of straightwire interconnects as a toss in. They were the original owners of everything, having most of the receipts and manuals. I'm having a hard time deciding which speakers I like better... I thought the B&W's would win hands down, but the klipsch are sounding really good! I haven't even hooked up the sub yet as it is LARGE! I still have to demo my Advent Heritage Towers through the system. Those speakers really impressed me so much I got another pair and am using them in my home theater setup.
I had a lucky day on craigslist... I'm not even going to say what I paid for them but I payed more for my preamp, which I stole! It pays to watch it a lot!
Listening to some Ry Cooder through the klipsch right now and am very impressed. The bad thing is this is in my office and it's only about maybe 10x10 if that... But I have a bunch of speakers to sell and I want to audition them on my tube stuff because it sounds so much better. So I'll keep them out here till I get them sold. I think everything will go quicker that way.
Back to my new score, I think in a larger room the B&W's may have better imaging and possible sound better, they are both really close in the office!
Father Time signing off... need an attitude adjustment!:cornut:

[poppachubby]

Right on!! Sounds great. If you look back, I recommended the KG series along with the Heresy's. I knew you would like them, they are indeed great speakers for mating with tubes. Configuring your sub may prove tricky. Tube amps put out a different kind of bass response. Personally, I've never been a "bass" guy. As long as it's audible and effective, that's enough for me.

Glad everything worked out for you, don't be a stranger.

[Father Time]

Not a chance, I love this site and the people! If anyone is interested in trading some bomb ass speakers for some great SS receivers. Got the nicest example of the Mcintosh MC250 (bench marked at 75rms one side and 76rms on the other(9.8 out of 10) and a Mcintosh MX113 also in beautiful condition, a ridiculous and just gone through recently Pioneer SX-1250 with the wood case that is a nice an example as one could find. Also got a pretty much nib pioneer sx-980 with the box, styrofoam packing, plastic and original fm antenna. Guy bought 2 over seas as he liked it so much he didn't want to be without. Problem was, the one never went bad so he ended up selling it to my friend, who had to reluctantly liquidate when he had to move. The original owner took the receiver out of the box and played it for a couple hours a year, like an old antique car.... and that was it.
And it looks and sounds it!
Have much more, there premier quad channel that went for about $1k new, and a lesser one that only went for $750 in the mid 70's with an occilloscope on the face. a 10 out of 10 sansui 4000 with wood case, and lot's more... Marantz 2216, 2230, 2245 with all new lights all in exc. cond. The list goes on. I'm in Tucson, Az. I want a ridiculous set of speakers! Have alot of speakers also, but I want something extra special for my tube stuff!
I'm also a semi-pro photographer and can of course take some great pics if anyone wants!
Just thought that I would through all that in and see what happens:ihih:

[Father Time]

I guess the b&w sub is only 120 watts rms. The model number will fool you sometimes... But it is the biggest sub I've ever had!:)

[frenchmon]

Father Time...check your PM.

[Father Time]

pm'd you back.

[Father Time]

Well poppachubby, I went ahead and got the ARC LS15... I couldn't help myself. Sounds awesome!, But, so does the VAC! I actually like the vac very much. Running it with the VTL st85 amp, through some B&W dm580's and that B&W ASW1000 sub.... Very sick. I will keep one of them and maybe trade the other for some super sick speakers. I like the sound of the martin logans. Also have been looking at some PSB speakers that caught my attention.
BTW, the B&W ASW1000 sub is absolutely stunning. I can't turn it past 9 0'clock at 80 hz. Loving it. Makes a major difference even though the bass was good. IF you come across one of these for a deal on CL I would snatch it up.

[poppachubby]

Wow...awesome!! It's funny, I was just comparing my own preamp's phono specs with other esoteric phono stages today. I figure I am good up to $1000. Once at that level, the specs get silly.

I decided to look at some ARC specs for fun. They quite simply shame everything out there, fully functional pre or external phono stage.

You will never need another preamp again. While I am sure that the VAC sounds great, and you are enjoying it, the SNR in the ARC should absolutley topple the VAC. It should be more than audible.

Anyhow, you made a great purchase and are now seated amongst audio royalty (you lucky SOB!!!).

[Father Time]

Hey Poppachubby,
The thing is I was thinking that the ARC was gonna smoke the VAC, but it didn't! I really like the vac, the way it sounds, etc... But at this point it's too close to tell They both sound so nice I don't know at this point. They are both kick ass for sure! I will probably keep the ARC and sell the VAC as the blue book is higher and it's in such primo cond. Although the ARC looks brand new and is newer period. The arc seems a tad brighter also.
So poppachubby, if I don't like the brightness, what do I do? Put something like a mullard tube in the amp or the arc? Like I said, I'm new to the tube thing:smile5:

[poppachubby]

Tube characteristics can help, but aren't any guarantee. If the ARC is truly bright, it will impose itself on just about anything you do.

Figure out which tubes you are using and visit this site. Not only does he sell them, but he will discuss their sound. Might be a good start, and an education.

http://www.audiotubes.com/

[Father Time]

Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.

[poppachubby]

Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.

No problem, I learned alot just reading on that site. Brent Jesse is reachable by email for any questions, he's a super guy. He has NOS black glass 6L6's I am thinking about buying.

I would say if your back end is bright without fatigue, be happy!! Alot of tube set ups have a darker quality, with rolled off highs. It's all a matter of taste.

Put a nice set of tubes into those things and get ready to fall in love. Vocals will be simply untouchable. Anyhting that lives in the mid range will be too infact. You have some very nice gear...

[JoeE SP9]

Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.

What tubes are currently in the ARC?

Tube rolling can and does make a large difference.

[Father Time]

thanks again poppachubby! And JoeE SP9, I will take a look a little later and let you know.
I must say that after much listening last night, it sounds much better than I thought... I'm just very anal about this stuff. I had my friend over and he liked the arc much better. He just wants to come and listen to my stereo any chance he can! He's hooked!:lol:

[Hyfi]

thanks again poppachubby! And JoeE SP9, I will take a look a little later and let you know.
I must say that after much listening last night, it sounds much better than I thought... I'm just very anal about this stuff. I had my friend over and he liked the arc much better. He just wants to come and listen to my stereo any chance he can! He's hooked!:lol:

This is all very interesting since the VAC sold for 2X that of the ARC unit.

[JoeE SP9]

I would love to be able to properly audition that VAC. I'm not stuck on a look or a manufacturer. If it sounds better to me then it is.

[Hyfi]

I would love to be able to properly audition that VAC. I'm not stuck on a look or a manufacturer. If it sounds better to me then it is.

Joe, I just noticed the CD63SE in your siggy. I have [edit]a 67SE [edit] that recently just stopped spinning the disk when loaded. I loved the player and have been trying to decide if I should have it repaired, and by who, or toss it.

I was also using an Audio Alchemy DDE1.1 with it and that was recently hooked to my DVD player and on all the time. When I swapped my new rack in and plugged it back in, nothing. Not sure if that is worth the repair either.

Any thoughts?

Where did you say you were in Philly? Maybe when things settle down and summer is over, we can come up with a way to listen to the VAC. Mind you, I am not running expensive fancy tubes, just newer JJs recommended by Quest For Sound in Bristol.

[E-Stat]

...if I don't like the brightness, what do I do? Put something like a mullard tube in the amp or the arc? Like I said, I'm new to the tube thing:smile5:
Sorry to step in, but I might be of assistance as well. Like Joe, I also have also been a long term ARC user and likewise have an SP-9 MKIII. Tubes can make a difference for sure (I use Amperex 7308s), but brightness can also be caused by untrapped RFI downstream from the source and/or the cabling used. This false brightness can be power or signal borne. For source components, I use either aftermarket power cords or use a power conditioner. I prefer well shielded ICs as well. A side benefit to banishing the noise is increased low level resolution.

BTW, I also use VTL amps and find a synergy between the slightly lean character of ARC products and the slightly warm character of VTL stuff.

rw

[JoeE SP9]

Hyfi; I live in Germantown. I like your idea. I'd love to hear the VAC. When my CD63SE dies I won't be repairing it. If I was in the market for a new CD player I'd be looking at one of the new Marantz players. I bought a Yamaha DVD S1800 earlier this year. I wanted SACD capability and the price ($80) was right. For RBCD's my MSB DAC does the job. A Marantz is in my future,

I have a supply of NOS Telefunken and Sylvania tubes. I was allowed to clean out a closet full of tubes years ago when HUP (Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania) was getting rid of the last of their tube monitors and other related gear. I was a Biomedical Engineer there for 8 years. I got tired of being around sick people and went back to school for a MS Computer Science. It's all in the past as I'm now retired.

Yes, different tubes can and do make a large difference in the sound of a preamp or any tube based gear. More things to tweak. He he!

E-Stat is absolutely correct about RFI. I tried some Kimber Silver Streak a while back. Although I don't have a lot of overt RFI what was there was quite evident with the unshielded Kimber. I've since switched to DH Labs BL-1 Silver plated Copper.

[Hyfi]

Hyfi; I live in Germantown. I like your idea. I'd love to hear the VAC. When my CD63SE dies I won't be repairing it. If I was in the market for a new CD player I'd be looking at one of the new Marantz players. I bought a Yamaha DVD S1800 earlier this year. I wanted SACD capability and the price ($80) was right. For RBCD's my MSB DAC does the job. A Marantz is in my future,

I have a supply of NOS Telefunken and Sylvania tubes. I was allowed to clean out a closet full of tubes years ago when HUP (Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania) was getting rid of the last of their tube monitors and other related gear. I was a Biomedical Engineer there for 8 years. I got tired of being around sick people and went back to school for a MS Computer Science. It's all in the past as I'm now retired.

Yes, different tubes can and do make a large difference in the sound of a preamp or any tube based gear. More things to tweak. He he!

E-Stat is absolutely correct about RFI. I tried some Kimber Silver Streak a while back. Although I don't have a lot of overt RFI what was there was quite evident with the unshielded Kimber. I've since switched to DH Labs BL-1 Silver plated Copper.


I'd love to roll some tubes but can't justify the cost at the moment. As far as cables go, I am using Synergistic between cdp-pre-and amp. I have several different Tara Labs cables I can play with.

I have also been playing with the Passive setting as to rule out the tubes altogether. I also just put the Danes back in the mix utilizing the Stratos, so I am getting a totally different sound than with the CFs.

Germantown is not too far from Southampton so we will have to try and hook up for a listening session some time in the near future.

[poppachubby]

HyFi please take your camera to Joe's!!!! He has no digital camera and I have been dying to see his gear...

[frenchmon]

Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.

Hey Father Time...congrats of the LS15. I have a buddy who has a LS15 preamp. It was sounding kinda boring. He said all it needed was new tubes. So he changed the tubes andnow the the thing has so much sophistication...it has a velvety kinda quality to the sound and it set the instruments in its own space with depth to the sound stage. I feel in love that night with the LS15. What was driving the LS15 was a McIntosh 225 tube amp...only 25 watts per channel.

He also has an Electrocompaniet CDP and some home made speakers with Morel tweets and Vifa woofers. The guy is very good with wood working and actually measured and cut his own wood and rubbed the finish....and built his own crossover. I guess the only thing on the speaker he did not build is the drivers. Speaker cables and interconnects where also home made by him.

Now I've heard systems costing thousands more, but I have yet to listen to a system that sounded better than what I heard that night. The sound was not saturated with tube sweetness nor was it edgy as some SS. This is not a laid back or borring system at all....but one that gets your attention and just pulls you into what is happening on the huge stage before you.

Like I said, I have yet to listen to a two channel system sounding better...and while living on the east coast, before moving to the mid west, I heard systems costing into the $100.000 's and none of them, SS or Tube sounded better that that combo of the McIntosh/ARC combo. Not saying there are none, ima sure there are, but I have yet to hear one.

I dont think it was the LS15 alone that produced that sound, but it sure added to what his system can do. In the LS15, which is not the top of the line in the ARC family, is without a doubt a very good preamp. So if I where you, I would build around it with good synergistic gear...you can shoot for the ceiling with that preamp.

[JoeE SP9]

HyFi please take your camera to Joe's!!!! He has no digital camera and I have been dying to see his gear...

Sorry PC. I've been looking for a digital camera to replace my antique Nikon F-2. The Olympus Pen E-PL1 is getting my attention. Unfortunately my discretionary funds have been depleted by the recent purchase of two Crown XLS402's. Right now I'm using one on my subs and the other to drive my stats. My tube mono blocks need some new output tubes so the Crown is a nice substitute. When I get the new tubes the Crown's will be bridged and put to work on my subs.

BTW: The Crowns were an absolute bargain; $199 each with free shipping. That's 300 WPC @ 8 Ohms and 900 Watts bridged, so Crown says. I know they have lots more power than the Hafler DH-200 they are replacing.

I have had the clip lights blinking at a measured +106dB at one meter. This was measured with my Rat Shack meter set to slow on the 100dB range. The meter needle was gently bouncing off the stop which is just past the +6 reading. It sounded very very good.

I hadn't realized it was that loud. I saw the clip lights blinking and pulled out the meter out of curiosity.

[poppachubby]

Sorry PC. I've been looking for a digital camera to replace my antique Nikon F-2. The Olympus Pen E-PL1 is getting my attention. Unfortunately my discretionary funds have been depleted by the recent purchase of two Crown XLS402's. Right now I'm using one on my subs and the other to drive my stats. My tube mono blocks need some new output tubes so the Crown is a nice substitute. When I get the new tubes the Crown's will be bridged and put to work on my subs.

BTW: The Crowns were an absolute bargain; $199 each with free shipping. That's 300 WPC @ 8 Ohms and 900 Watts bridged, so Crown says. I know they have lots more power than the Hafler DH-200 they are replacing.

I have had the clip lights blinking at a measured +106dB at one meter. This was measured with my Rat Shack meter set to slow on the 100dB range. The meter needle was gently bouncing off the stop which is just past the +6 reading. It sounded very very good.

I hadn't realized it was that loud. I saw the clip lights blinking and pulled out the meter out of curiosity.

Nah, it's cool. I will eventually make it over to your place. Remember my aunt lives in Pittsburgh, but the kids are too small for a road trip.

You must admit, there's been a couple of conversations where a pic from your end would have been good.

As for the amp scenario, I have been giving more thought to amping my mains and sub in my HT.

[Father Time]

Well, I'm bummed! I have to move so I will probably have to sell my VAC pre amp... blue book is $1860.00 so I plan to sell them for around $1700.00, or else I'll have to sell my arc which I'm liking. I actuallylove them both, but need to make some $, so will sell the VAC. So if you know someone, let me know ...
.

[poppachubby]

Well, I'm bummed! I have to move so I will probably have to sell my VAC pre amp... blue book is $1860.00 so I plan to sell them for around $1700.00, or else I'll have to sell my arc which I'm liking. I actuallylove them both, but need to make some $, so will sell the VAC. So if you know someone, let me know ...
.

I suspect if you use Audiogon, it will sell quickly.

[Hyfi]

Well, I'm bummed! I have to move so I will probably have to sell my VAC pre amp... blue book is $1860.00 so I plan to sell them for around $1700.00, or else I'll have to sell my arc which I'm liking. I actuallylove them both, but need to make some $, so will sell the VAC. So if you know someone, let me know ...
.

Good luck with that. Before I became the owner of the VAC I have, I couldn't even sell it for $500. (the original owner asked me to help him sell his whole system together or separately) Maybe the economy is a little better than in the weeks after the downturn, but not much.

Bummer you can't keep them both. I wish I still had my old Sound Valves just to swap them once in a while like I do with my amps. Between 2 pairs of speaker, 2 amps, and a pre that does passive and gain, I get 6 different sounding systems by only moving a pair of speakers.

[Father Time]

Well, I'll try CL first as I'm not a subscripted member of audiogon yet. And if I can't get what I want for it, I'll just get another tube amp and set up yet another system. I just found a bad assed house to move in to with lots of room and won't have an ole lady telling me to turn it down when it's not even at 9 O'clock! I got all my tube stuff in my office so I won't "bother" anyone with the beautiful sound of my valve equipment!
It's funny, my brother in law is kind of an audiophile type, and he auditioned my new set up and I asked him what he thought... He said "I think it is the nicest I have ever heard".
When people come over, all the guys are in my office listening to my stereos and the women are in the house.... Typical I'm sure!
I think that I may get another VTL st85 and run bi-amped as monos as I gather it sounds extremely good that way...

[Father Time]

Well, I'll try CL first as I'm not a subscripted member of audiogon yet. And if I can't get what I want for it, I'll just get another tube amp and set up yet another system. I just found a bad assed house to move in to with lots of room and won't have an ole lady telling me to turn it down when it's not even at 9 O'clock! I got all my tube stuff in my office so I won't "bother" anyone with the beautiful sound of my valve equipment!
It's funny, my brother in law is kind of an audiophile type, and he auditioned my new set up and I asked him what he thought... He said "I think it is the nicest I have ever heard".
When people come over, all the guys are in my office listening to my stereos and the women are in the house.... Typical I'm sure!
I think that I may get another VTL st85 and run bi-amped as monos as I gather it sounds extremely good that way...

[Father Time]

sorry about the double post... The server was trippin' and said it was busy and ended up posting twice....

[Father Time]

You know, I just plugged in the VAC pre amp, after not listening to the vac after getting the ARC LS15 (for about a month), and I was shocked! That VAC is sick! I think that I will have to sell the ARC...
There is no comparison. The Vac is unbelievable. Crisper, more presence,more dynamics, I can hear everything. Rocking my Advent heritage towers, through my VTL st 85 and Jolida JD100 and listening to some Herbie Hancock. Shut my mouth... No comparison, and the tubes aren't even burned in yet! I'm in love! Wish you were here!
ARC LS15 for $1500 if you know anyone.... That's what I paid, not looking to gain, just get my dough back for the move... In mint condition.

[Hyfi]

You know, I just plugged in the VAC pre amp, after not listening to the vac after getting the ARC LS15 (for about a month), and I was shocked! That VAC is sick! I think that I will have to sell the ARC...
There is no comparison. The Vac is unbelievable. Crisper, more presence,more dynamics, I can hear everything. Rocking my Advent heritage towers, through my VTL st 85 and Jolida JD100 and listening to some Herbie Hancock. Shut my mouth... No comparison, and the tubes aren't even burned in yet! I'm in love! Wish you were here!
ARC LS15 for $1500 if you know anyone.... That's what I paid, not looking to gain, just get my dough back for the move... In mint condition.

I know this is an old post but it came up in a Google search for my VAC Pre.

That VAC is sick! Love that line and the fact that after living with the ARC for a while, it really shined when he dropped it back in the mix.

VAC makes incredible gear and unless you have had the chance to hear any of it, you have no idea what you are missing. I still don't care that I have to get up and change 2 volume controls since it is true dual mono.

I recently re-tubed mine with what VAC puts in the newer gear for wonderful results. I also use the Buffered Passive mode for lower level listening and greater volume control and looking to roll some 12AX7s. In the buffered mode, the AU7s are taken out of the circuit witch are the gain tubes in this unit and the signal goes only thru the AX7s.

I also re-tubed my Counterpoint Amp with Rectifiers and 6FQ7s from the early '60s. What an incredible difference that made with the old RCA Clear Tops.

It would be great to find out whatever Father Time ended up doing and keeping.

[K730292]

Father Time

Tripped across this thread....

Please update me on your experience with your VAC CLA II. I continue to enjoy mine.