Vintage receiver vs New Mini Hi-Fi system ? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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kiwi32
08-08-2010, 09:52 AM
First,hi folks!
I wasn't able to find an answer to my question,so here is my first post.

I am building a small audio system which is pretty complicated.In short,it is a small recording system which includes a behringer 10 imputs mixer,a mic,a computer with a nice creative soundcard,and logitech surround speakers set.
All this is wired together so i can control the volume on the mixer and listen to it on the speakers or record on the PC.The main out of the mixer will be wired to an eq and then the eq out will be connected(splitted too) to the PC and the speakers.No problem here.

I also want to wire a vintage cassette deck,a vintage CD changer.
I want to be able to change the volume from the deck out and the cd out with the mixer.I will also split the main out from the eq to the tape in to be able to record.
Note that I already purchased all the material,including the deck and cd changer.When I say vintage,its from 1970 to 2000.

This is where the complication starts.How to wire it to the mixer?
So far I was thinking about 3 things:
1-I wire it directly to the mixer using RCA outs.I would then be able to control volume independently on the mixer,but it will take 2 imputs instead of one and no possibility to get radio.
2-I buy a new mini hi-fi chain,and use the auxiliary imputs to connect the Cd changer.I would then unplug the speakers included with the system,and use a small speaker wire to rca adapter and wire it to the mixer.I would get radio.
3-I get a vintage receiver and wire the changer and tape to it,then run the tape out output to the mixer.I'll get fm radio.

I was planning to use #2.I already purchased a sony mini hi-fi system,after I started thinking if I did the right choice.I got a second chance offer on ebay on a receiver I had tried to get,and that made me think I should go with #3.

Few other questions:
What is inside this mini hi-fi?Can I get good sound from it?I was not able to find out since all the reviews use the included speaker pair,but what if I use it with my mixer instead?How does it perform vs a vintage stereo receiver?

I already purchased the sony hi-fi,but it would not be a problem to get the receiver instead.I could always use the sony stereo elsewhere.

Most was purchased on ebay,new.Some were used.I got good prices for almost every pieces.Prices include shipping.
Sorry for the long post,thanks in advance for your advice!

HARDWARE involved:

Mixer : behringer 1002b http://arm.in/ilU 90$

PC SoundCard : Creative X-fi USB http://arm.in/ilV 100$

MIC : akg perception 100 http://arm.in/ilW 40$

PC Speakers : http://arm.in/ilX 110$

EQ : Behringer FBQ3102 http://arm.in/ilY 80$

Cassette Deck : JVC TD-w805 http://arm.in/ilZ 25$

CD changer : Sony CDP-CX205 http://arm.in/im0 40$

Mini Hi-Fi System : Sony stereo system CMT-NE3 http://arm.in/im1 70$

Speaker Wire Adapter : China no-name http://arm.in/im2 5$

Receiver(only thing not bought yet) : Kenwood 1080VR http://arm.in/im3 http://arm.in/im4 40$ as a pending second chance offer

Premium cabling by monoprice.Snake cable for mixer to RCA from seismic audio http://arm.in/im5 40$,not yet purchased (out of stock).

:smile5:

Dual-500
08-08-2010, 10:23 AM
In my small computer studio system I bring a turntable preamp and three PC's toghther into an Ashly LX308 and really like it. The output of the LX308 feeds the monitore. For the vinyl recording I bypass the LX308 and go from phono preamp through a DBX compressor/limiter and into PC sound card.

The Ashly LX308 is a stereo line level mixer and does not have multi-bus capability.

The Behringer 1002b looks like it will do you well for your intneded usage. The board has pre and post outs plus main outs. I'd probalby use the main output bus for the monitors and the sub bussing for recording outputs.

I'd opt for the Kenwood hands down.

JoeE SP9
08-08-2010, 10:28 AM
Get the receiver. It will probably produce better sound. A vintage receiver will also have a phono stage and plenty of connection options. If you ever want vinyl, just plug in a TT.

kiwi32
08-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Thank you for both of your reply!
SteveW:
I was initially planning to use the other output too,but then how to wire it with the EQ?
So I believe I have to split the EQ outputs and use only main out for my system(unless I want a raw record without eq effects later).
JoeE SP9:
The tt expansion is definitely a considerable plus for the receiver.

So far,2-0 for the receiver!:biggrin5:

Dual-500
08-08-2010, 11:20 AM
The console should have eq on it. If you want pre/post eq for recording and monitors you may need a second eq and you probably won't want to record the "wet" signals going to the monitors.

You may find the eq on the console will work to correct/enhance the recording feed.

Again, it's how you use the system. I would opt for a baseline eq for the monitors so you have something to work from when listening/recording different media/sources.

Get the receiver, put it together and play with it a bit to see what works best for your objectives.

kiwi32
08-08-2010, 12:43 PM
The mixer doesnt have an integrated EQ,but does have EQ connection.
However,from what I understood,the output is mono and there is not in\out loop.I am suppose to wire the eq out to one of the outputs.
Thats why I think just splitting the signal(thanks to monoprice splitters)would be easier.I do not need any higher-end equalizing(just post eq on the main out).

See the detailled pic of the console front: http://arm.in/imr

Dual-500
08-08-2010, 02:03 PM
The mixer doesnt have an integrated EQ,but does have EQ connection.
However,from what I understood,the output is mono and there is not in\out loop.I am suppose to wire the eq out to one of the outputs.
Thats why I think just splitting the signal(thanks to monoprice splitters)would be easier.I do not need any higher-end equalizing(just post eq on the main out).

See the detailled pic of the console front: http://arm.in/imr
That little baby console has low, mid & high eq on each set of input channels - standard protocol for a console.

It will work well for you. Get the old school receiver and put it together. The manual should have some block diagrams for you to look at. Then, draw up your own configuration by adding the components you selected.

The list of gear you have will work and work well for a starter type setup. Real good! :thumbsup:

kiwi32
08-08-2010, 03:33 PM
Sorry,I tough an the expression "eq" meant more channel than low mid high(another newbie mistake).Anyway I am going to need more than low mid high,so I already bought the Behringer FBQ3102 which offers around 30 channels : http://arm.in/imV
So hopefully the splitting will do the trick decently.

Thank you for your advice.First thing tomorrow morning I purchase the receiver ! :D

Dual-500
08-08-2010, 04:08 PM
I didn't know what you wanted to do - general tone shaping or more specific eq.

I picked one of these up a few weeks back for use in the center channel of the HT system:

PQ16 eq (http://www.ashly.com/retired/spec-sheets/cs-pq.pdf)

kiwi32
08-08-2010, 04:37 PM
It looks like a fine piece of equipment for sure,tough my very limited knowledge in the matter limits my understanding of most of the terms used there :P

BTW, what do you think of the mini sony stereo ? Now that I am not going to use it(at least for this project),I wonder if the system as a whole will be any good?

Thanks.

Dual-500
08-08-2010, 06:24 PM
Let me tell you something here my friend. EVERY and I do mean EVERY member on this site started at DAY 1.

That gets lost all to often in the noise level.

HIFi as a hobby is a journey that's unique to each of us.

Have fun! Enjoy the journey.

I've been playing with this crap for 40+ years and only know a little. I know a lot more than when I started - but, still only know a little. Much more to learn and enjoy.

It's about even between listening/watching enjoyment and building and configuring systems for me. Playing with the stuff, what you're doing now is great fun. Asking questions and exchanging knowledge and experience with other members is nice.

Just put it together, hit the switch and rock on......

Dual-500
08-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Here's one for a sound check on your new system when you get it going.

Quality ain't the best - there was a better version out there but I can't find it right now - still looking.

A little in your face classic rock from my day........you better believe I still crank this on up from time to time. Crank it up REAL loud. Get them VU meters swinging!

Saw BTO live in Dallas in 1994 - awesome show - outdoors in place called Dallas Alley. And, it was free!

From their first and my favorite album.

Hold Back the Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlecPUs6iMw&feature=related)

kiwi32
08-09-2010, 04:50 AM
Thanks for the tip.It might not be my favorite kind of music but I'll give it a try for sure once everything is wired up.:2:

JoeE SP9
08-09-2010, 12:19 PM
There have been some unfavorable things written on this site about Monoprice cables. OTOH Blue Jeans cables have gotten a good response.

kiwi32
08-09-2010, 05:40 PM
Interesting post.I tough MP were loved by everyone.
I sure researched the forum for the comments,but I find most of the comparisons unfair.
They seem to be comparing monoprice vs blue jeans like if they were the same.
BJ are 10x pricier than MP.I don't think they deliver a 10x better sound quality.For now,at this point of my setup and experience,I love MP cables and am satisfied with them.
But thanks for the input,this sure made me learn new stuff.
What do you think about the snake cable?I didn't know such kind of cable existed before I designed my setup.

JoeE SP9
08-10-2010, 07:12 AM
I'm using DH labs Q-10 Signature speaker cable and Air Matrix IC's. I settled on these after trying many different cables over the last ten years. I like the Kimber KCAg and Silver Streak cables a lot. Both of them are too prone to RFI for my location. KCAg is also quite expensive, although cost is relative.

As my budget permits I'm replacing all my IC's with the Air Matrix IC's (4 to go). I use their T-14 cable and White Lightning IC's for my surrounds (rear speakers) and their amplifiers.

kiwi32
08-10-2010, 07:23 AM
I am a bit septical about "the power of cables".
What difference do you hear between those cables?
How can they make any sound difference at all?(this cable delivers more bass,this one is a bit low on the mid,etc).
Thanks

pixelthis
08-10-2010, 10:02 AM
I am a bit septical about "the power of cables".
What difference do you hear between those cables?
How can they make any sound difference at all?(this cable delivers more bass,this one is a bit low on the mid,etc).
Thanks

There is no "power of cables", although some wish it were so.
Good shielded cables, with gold plated plugs, is all you need.
I have HDMI from monoprice, BTW, they work great.
THE "MINI" SYSTEM is not junk, but junk squared, great for a shelf in the garage, but thats about it, clock radio amps, and speakers, not even made by Sony, someone makes them for Sony.
A decent receiver would simplify your system somewhat, but if you are doing remote recording, you will need an entirely different rig.
ONE WORD OF ADVICE, the Cassette is obsolete, whatever you make will be lowered to its specs, which are poor in todays world.
ANY AUDIO FILES YOU MAKE need to be stored in lossless form on a very good HD with a backup.:1:

kiwi32
08-10-2010, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the input.This is exactly what I tough about cables,which I so far separate in 3 basic classes:
1-very cheap.no shielding(interferences),signal degradation.Think radioshack.
2-decent.no interferences,minimal degradation over long run,better connectors(thigher fit,means better connections with the receiver).Think MP(good price) or BJ(overpriced).
3-studio.no interferences,no degradation even over very long run,better connectors(thigher fit,means better connections with the receiver).Think Monster ,transparent.Over priced.At that point I think the only difference is degradation,and there an easy way to fight it: crank the volume.

I do know cassette is obsolete,but I have a few recording I would like to record.Beside,25$ is a reasonable price for it.But I am not planning to use it with anything serious.

Have a nice day.

Edit:Oh and about the mini system,I think I will use it exactly for what you suggested.

kiwi32
08-10-2010, 01:31 PM
Hey,I have another question now:
What do you think of my snake cable instead of 1\4 to RCA adapters for each imputs(2 per output)?
It looks like 1\4 to rca adapters are cheaper than the snake cable,and the snake will require another adapter(1\4 to 3\8)after,so I am revisiting my idea.

Dual-500
08-10-2010, 04:13 PM
Hey,I have another question now:
What do you think of my snake cable instead of 1\4 to RCA adapters for each imputs(2 per output)?
It looks like 1\4 to rca adapters are cheaper than the snake cable,and the snake will require another adapter(1\4 to 3\8)after,so I am revisiting my idea.
Neither solution is very good. Assuming you want to go from RCA female on the back of gear like the receiver into the 1/4" ins on the console? Right?

Use cabling and stay away from adaptors. The only adaptors I ever use is 1/4" TRS to XLR. And RCA male to 1/4" fem - the adaptor is actually 1/4" male to RCA female.

Best to stay away from adaptors all together if possible.

For your cables try Guitar Center they have a pretty good selection and prices aren't too bad.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audio---RCA-Cables-Cables.gc

Or, get the snake and change out the ends to RCA at one end. If you can solder.

kiwi32
08-10-2010, 04:38 PM
I had no idea this kind of cables existed.
I would prefer to keep the solder out of this thing,last time I used it,well,I prefer not to mention what happened.I definitely eliminated this snake cable.
The problem is that i already have most of the RCA cables here.If I was going to buy the pre-made ones I had to throw them away,thus the reason why I was thinking about the adapters.
What do you think of those?
http://arm.in/iqw
Thanks.

Dual-500
08-10-2010, 05:47 PM
Those will work just fine.

These are ones to really avoid: http://www.zzounds.com/item--CBI336IC Not the brand, the type - too much side strain on connector and equipment.

kiwi32
08-10-2010, 06:24 PM
Or those http://arm.in/iqx ?Theyre about the same price...
I have to stop shopping for adaptors lol

kiwi32
09-07-2010, 02:24 PM
Hi !
Here is an update to this thread:
First,I got the receiver.The face plate was smashed in pieces in one corner!
At least it still works,and aesthetics aren't too important due to it's location.
I also bought a turntable but still havent received it.
It's a Technics SL-J1 http://2.ly/cvsm http://2.ly/cvsn .
I am still awaiting the cables I ordered from monoprice so I cannot hook anything,but I did quickly tried the EQ with some temp cabling.

It looks like I missed an important point in equalization.

I wanted to be able to isolate instruments(read:frequencies) completely to re-use them later.Ex,take a saxophone solo and cut all other frequencies(basss instruments,piano,etc) to get only the ones used by the saxo and then record and re-use elsewhere. My EQ(A Behringer FBQ3102 to remind you)can only go to -12db.I realized it after trying to do this;It would lower the other frequencies,but never completely so i couldn't isolate the instrument.
+12db -12db is,as I understand it,the most common amplitude for EQs.I red about parametric and graphic,but still saw that even parametric have -12db as a maximum cut fr most.

Am I missing something?Why does it sound like I am the only one who want to get ride of a frequency completely instead of attenuating it?What equipment do I need to do such a thing?

Thanks for your advices!

kiwi32
09-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Anyone please ?