DTS Neo 6 vs. DPL II

[audio amateur]

As I'm coming to the end of my HT project, I thought it would be interesting to have your opinions on these two codecs, and for those of you who use them, which one you prefer and why. Also, specificy what you're playing them with (movies, music or video gaming).

For my part I've had little exposure so I can't really comment but i'll messing with it shortly.

Good day to you all!

[kexodusc]

I use PL IIx to get 7.1 on any sources that aren't, unles there's an ES/EX option to matrix. Almost never use either for music unless it's just to experiment (sometimes it is quite pleasant).

I don't find DTS Neo 6 to be as good, and rarely use it.

[GMichael]

I only use either if I'm watching a movie that is not in 5.1 or 7.1 already. Both work fine though. PL IIx seems to have a little more bass while Neo 6 seems to have better mids and highs. The differences are minor to my ears though. Pick your poison.
Most HD movies are in at least 5.1 so I'm using these two very little these days. My system lives in STRAIGHT mode.

[L.J.]

Like GM said, I use straight mode 99% of the time. When I do come across the occasional 2 channel movie I want in 5.1, I go with PL II. For me, it seems to give a slightly better effect over Neo 6.

[kevlarus]

For me, I find PL II too compressed and use Neo6 for any non surround material, which is normally non-HD cable channels. I don't process standard stereo music and is output to all speakers as either left or right as appropriate. The powered sub does its own crossover for material like that.

[Tarheel_]

i have an older HK receiver so i prefer Logic7. However, my second choice is Neo:6 Music because it gives 7.1 whereas i only have PL II for 5.1.

I use Logic7 a lot for the music channels on Directv.

Call me odd, but i like listening all day (while i work) to surround music vs the more common 2 channel.

[pixelthis]

Being a fan of other DTS modes, wish I could say that its preferred, but I actually can tell
(a very slight) difference , and it goes towards plxII for stereo and mono sources.
DDII is a lot like a discrete 5.1 soundtrack, amazing what this can do to enhance older
shows, especially action fare.:1:

[markw]

PLII on movies that aren't in DD/DTS. Never on music.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I use PLIIx on all two channel sources except some music. It does a better job of forming a sound bubble around you, much better than Neo:6. DPLIIx adds the sixth and seventh matrixed channels to the 5.1 it already generates. It's matrix and steering are much more advanced than Neo:6, so it can place images in between channels - something Neo:6 just can't do. So you get 7 matrixed channels, and 7 points in between them to steer signals. This makes for more coherent sound staging when used with two channel sources.

[kelsci]

DPL-2 is very similar to the sound of Dynaquad experiments that I did some years back. However I seem to find the DPL-2 movie mode more accurate than its music mode. Certain music in the DPL-2 music mode did not seem right in some instruments positioning of which it did in the movie mode. I find the movie mode to want in bass,somthing the music mode has. DTS NEO spreads sound across the field between the three front speakers but I find it does not do anything much in the rear as separation goes. I never had the opportunity to try Logic 7. I have tried Circle Surround 1 on my brothers Marantz receiver but I was not all that impressed with its imaging qualities. If I ever have the energy to write about Dynaquad and DPL-2, I will do it on my blog with a link to this board.

[audio amateur]

Thanks for the feedback. It looks like there's a preference for Dolby. I too will use DD or DTS when available, I suppose I was really asking about music and video games.

GM LJ and co., don't you guys use DLP or Neo when playing PS3?

Sir T, I know you have a 7 channel setup but what if it was a 5 channel setup and DLP II not DLP IIx. Would you still favor Dolby?

[GMichael]

.

GM LJ and co., don't you guys use DLP or Neo when playing PS3?



All the games I have are already in 5.1+. Using DLP or Neo would turn it into 7.1 but that adds proccessing. Straight mode just sounds more real to me (if a game can ever be real). I prefer most things as they were recorded. The only exception being old movies not recorded in surround of any kind.

[kelsci]

DPL-2, NEO and the rest of the bunch works on a 5.1 system. The only exception that I cannot comment on is the 2x or anything similar if you happen to rurn 2X on without height speakers.

Years back, Yamaha had a height system in some of their receivers. They did have a swithch in the menu to turn the height speakers on if they were hooked up. On the same token, they had the same switch turn the height speakers off and have the so called effects folded into the main left and right speakers.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Thanks for the feedback. It looks like there's a preference for Dolby. I too will use DD or DTS when available, I suppose I was really asking about music and video games.

GM LJ and co., don't you guys use DLP or Neo when playing PS3?

Sir T, I know you have a 7 channel setup but what if it was a 5 channel setup and DLP II not DLP IIx. Would you still favor Dolby?

Probably. I personally like Jim Fosgates implementation of the matrix decoder better than Dts's.

[PeruvianSkies]

i have an older HK receiver so i prefer Logic7. However, my second choice is Neo:6 Music because it gives 7.1 whereas i only have PL II for 5.1.

I use Logic7 a lot for the music channels on Directv.

Call me odd, but i like listening all day (while i work) to surround music vs the more common 2 channel.

Agreed. I personally only want to hear the source in the way it was meant to be, not in what the receiver wants to do in order to 'enhance' or make fake surround options, etc.

[Tarheel_]

I use PLIIx on all two channel sources except some music. It does a better job of forming a sound bubble around you, much better than Neo:6. DPLIIx adds the sixth and seventh matrixed channels to the 5.1 it already generates. It's matrix and steering are much more advanced than Neo:6, so it can place images in between channels - something Neo:6 just can't do. So you get 7 matrixed channels, and 7 points in between them to steer signals. This makes for more coherent sound staging when used with two channel sources.


Sir TT, have you played with Logic 7 modes? Looking through their literature back in the day, they have massive amounts of papers on the subject about how it came to life. Not sure how relevant this is today, but when i compare all the modes (except Circle) on my 7.1 setup I prefer Logic 7 as it seems more natural...smoother and front heavy with ambiance.

[pajr2179]

I prefer Stereo or DPLII for music. My receiver(soon to be upgraded) doesnt have the new formats. 5 channel stereo just doesn't sound right to my ears.

[canuckle]

For clarity's sake:

Dolby PLII - takes a stereo signal and turns it into 5.1

Dolby PLIIx - takes a 5.1 signal and turns it into 6.1 or 7.1

[kevlarus]

I prefer Stereo or DPLII for music. My receiver(soon to be upgraded) doesnt have the new formats. 5 channel stereo just doesn't sound right to my ears.

I dunno. Using 5 channel "stereo" is impressive when you're out on the deck with the smoker (no, not grilling) and you can hear the music nice and crisp without being processed to death and powered sub that has proper crossover setting. (this is presuming it's stereo instead of 5.1 audo source)

[GMichael]

I dunno. Using 5 channel "stereo" is impressive when you're out on the deck with the smoker (no, not grilling) and you can hear the music nice and crisp without being processed to death and powered sub that has proper crossover setting. (this is presuming it's stereo instead of 5.1 audo source)
It works well for most all parties.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

After a very long comparison last night, I am going to have to backtrack my comments, and give context to others.

Last night I came home from the studio and decided I wanted to watch a movie in my small reference theater. Given that the Sony playstation store was offering a free viewing of the funny and schloky Godzilla 2000, I decided to download the freebie, and give it a whirl.

I first wanted to make sure that switching between DPL IIx and Dts Neo:6(version 2.2) their newest algorythm. All of my previous impressions of Neo have been based on their first implementation, but with several updates to my switcher/processor I found that I had their latest version. The difference between the two of them is quite striking.

When I determined that there was absolutely no change in volume in switching between the two matrix processing, I sat down and compared the two.

Dts Neo:6 - Had a cleaner more robust and powerful presentation between the two. The fine details of the mix, foley, and panning of effects was more precise with Neo. Neo kept the entire production locked solidly up front, and any panning to the sides was very clearly delineated. The film score was presented with a more palpable sense of instrument position within the soundfield than DPL IIx.

DPL IIx - Had a huge immersive soundfield 360 degrees around the listening position. However fine details got lost in that soundfield, and were not quite as pronounced as with Neo. DPL IIx seemed mushy and clouded, and it sounded like the dynamics were quite a bit restrained in comparison to Neo. The best way I could describe DPL IIx experience was much like having a huge immersive cloud around you, with details stuck in the cloud. It is quite a different presentation from Neo.

After this listening session(I have never heard these side by side before), I am leaning far towards using Dts:Neo 6 for all of my two channel movies.

[Tarheel_]

After a very long comparison last night, I am going to have to backtrack my comments, and give context to others.

Last night I came home from the studio and decided I wanted to watch a movie in my small reference theater. Given that the Sony playstation store was offering a free viewing of the funny and schloky Godzilla 2000, I decided to download the freebie, and give it a whirl.

I first wanted to make sure that switching between DPL IIx and Dts Neo:6(version 2.2) their newest algorythm. All of my previous impressions of Neo have been based on their first implementation, but with several updates to my switcher/processor I found that I had their latest version. The difference between the two of them is quite striking.

When I determined that there was absolutely no change in volume in switching between the two matrix processing, I sat down and compared the two.

Dts Neo:6 - Had a cleaner more robust and powerful presentation between the two. The fine details of the mix, foley, and panning of effects was more precise with Neo. Neo kept the entire production locked solidly up front, and any panning to the sides was very clearly delineated. The film score was presented with a more palpable sense of instrument position within the soundfield than DPL IIx.

DPL IIx - Had a huge immersive soundfield 360 degrees around the listening position. However fine details got lost in that soundfield, and were not quite as pronounced as with Neo. DPL IIx seemed mushy and clouded, and it sounded like the dynamics were quite a bit restrained in comparison to Neo. The best way I could describe DPL IIx experience was much like having a huge immersive cloud around you, with details stuck in the cloud. It is quite a different presentation from Neo.

After this listening session(I have never heard these side by side before), I am leaning far towards using Dts:Neo 6 for all of my two channel movies.

How can someone determine which version of Neo is loaded???

My HK remote is great in many ways...one of them is having a separate button for each surround format. So, if i want to switch from DPLII to Neo:6 to Logic7 to 7 channel stereo, there is only one button for each. You set which mode (music - movies) in the menu so it switches to that particular one.
Comparing side/by/side over and over, I prefer Logic7 Music then Neo:6 Music for 2 channel movies and Directv music channels.

I'm thinking out-loud here as i wonder how many folks can directly compare the different formats without diving into menus and thus losing the sound (memory) of that format?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

How can someone determine which version of Neo is loaded???

You are not going to be able to tell since most receivers and pre-pro's use the Dts chipset. My processor uses Dts algorithms since it does all processing in software, not on chips.


My HK remote is great in many ways...one of them is having a separate button for each surround format. So, if i want to switch from DPLII to Neo:6 to Logic7 to 7 channel stereo, there is only one button for each. You set which mode (music - movies) in the menu so it switches to that particular one.
Comparing side/by/side over and over, I prefer Logic7 Music then Neo:6 Music for 2 channel movies and Directv music channels.

One of the main features I have on my processors is what is called auto lock. This locks the processor in to the bitstream so when you make switches between any Dts or DD bitstream, it does not lose lock, switching is instantaneous with no breaks. If you switch between Dts and DD, it will instantly lock in to the stream very quickly, and the break is only milliseconds long. This way you can instantly hear any changes(if there are any) between the two codecs with almost no pause in between. I can't do this with any of my other AVR's or Pre-pro's.


I'm thinking out-loud here as i wonder how many folks can directly compare the different formats without diving into menus and thus losing the sound (memory) of that format?

It all depends on how their AVR and Pre-pro's handle the switching between the two bit streams. I have a Sony AVR (a late pre-production model designed especially to work with the PS3) that can switch back and forth between bitstream, and the pause is only minimal. Like your HK, there is only one button for each accessed on the remote.

[audio amateur]

Thanks the update T. Im guessing my Neo is one of the earlier versions.

[eisforelectronic]

I prefer PLII to DTS neo, but I would much rather have Logic 7. Too bad it's only available on Harmon products.

[kelsci]

I prefer PLII to DTS neo, but I would much rather have Logic 7. Too bad it's only available on Harmon products.

I think logic 7 started on Lexicon products and worked its way down when Harmon bought Lexicon. I have never heard this codec myself but I wish I could to form an opinion on this.
I believe that Jim Fosgate had some kind of gizmo similar to Logic 7. I believe years back I heard this and I was not impressed with it in the store that I heard it. I know Sir Terrence likes Fosgate but I was not turned on by his products but to be fair I was not the one that hooked up that system in the store either. I think that at the time these two products were made I was first entering the relm of sourround sound. Regardless of these codecs, they are not nagically pulling surround out of a magic hat. If you hear surround effects using them it is because there are out of phase cues immersed in the stereo sound field. These out of phase cues say in the case of music got recorded that way or the sound mixer placed certain instruments in space with whatever devices they use to do this in some sort of out of phase concoction. This surround out of stereo can be heard naturally if you have used a comcorder that records in stereo and whose microphone has the ability to pick up sounds off the ends of their picups. I have plenty of matrix surround sound recorded on my videos because the particlaly mic I used some 20 plus years ago had that capability on what is called a polar field.

[eisforelectronic]

A long time ago when I worked at Circuit City, I fooled many people with the standard Eagles CD playing in Logic 7 Vs The DTS Eagles CD. Sometimes I would turn off the tv and play the DVD vs the regular CD in Logic 7. You had to really pay close attention to the rears to tell the difference, well that was the most obvious. Basically anyone passing through assumed I was playing the surround version.