Walmart prices do fall

[Smokey]

As I browse price of the new HDTV on the market regularly for future purchase, I have noticed that Walmart do lower prices on their LCD TVs....albiet their slogan.

For example, look at this thread from last month where I quote Walmart prices on Proscan TVs(post #34):

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=330241&highlight=proscan+walmart#post330241

As you can see, I quote 40 inch Proscan 1080p LCD for $448, and 42 inch LED-LCD model for $649. And that was the price from the Walmart link.

Now if you click the link in same post, 40 inch LCD have dropped from $448 to $428, and 42 inch LED have dropped from $649 to $598. Wonder how much further prices will drop.

So what is the purpose of this post. Just FYI :D

[Woochifer]

Wonder how much further prices will drop.

Good gawd, how much longer are you gonna "wonder"? :confused: Yeah, the prices might drop another $20 or $50 by the end of the year. But, that's all the more time spent wondering and less time watching.

Buy the dang TV, ANY TV! :incazzato:


So what is the purpose of this post. Just FYI

Seems that starting up these HDTV threads is Smokey's method of procrastinating! But, then when you finally buy a TV, what will you talk about then? :cool:

[Smokey]

Seems that starting up these HDTV threads is Smokey's method of procrastinating! But, then when you finally buy a TV, what will you talk about then? :cool:

Then it will be time to talk about bluray player :D

The size I am looking for 37 inches LCD do not seem to be as common as 32 inch or 40 inches. I was at Sears the other day, and they had bunch of 40 inches LCDs on display for under $600, but only two 37 inch models from Samsung and LG.

Samsung is charging premium on their TVs, however LG seem to be right up my alley with all features all want, but reviews on LG said that it suffer from "light" blacks. So the search goes on :)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Then it will be time to talk about bluray player :D

The size I am looking for 37 inches LCD do not seem to be as common as 32 inch or 40 inches. I was at Sears the other day, and they had bunch of 40 inches LCDs on display for under $600, but only two 37 inch models from Samsung and LG.

Samsung is charging premium on their TVs, however LG seem to be right up my alley with all features all want, but reviews on LG said that it suffer from "light" blacks. So the search goes on :)

Oh for the love of money get the 40" Smoke. What are you waiting for, the second coming?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Gimme that hat Festus! I'm gonna whack you over the head with it!!! :incazzato:

[Smokey]

Believe me when I say it is rough out there :nonod:

When looking at LCDs in the store, picture quality on them look good to awesome even on cheap ones. But when reading their reviews on net, there seem to be everthing wrong with those LCDs.

[RGA]

This one looked quite good in the store and is a brand I've seen out for quite some time. I'm trying to get more info on them. It's a 40 but they have 32 versions. Toshiba had a 37 inch model for around this money. Toshiba is a name brand.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/insignia-insignia-42-1080p-120hz-lcd-hdtv-ns-42l550a11-ns-42l550a11/10138696.aspx?path=870005dbf3a5a228e67c4bb54687fce aen02

An article written on CNET 6 years ago about this off brand stuff might be of interest http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-5510938-1.html

Back then you were saving 1/3 or more of the list price but today you are only saving a hundred to two hundred dollars. Granted the off brands are probably a lot better than they were. I really like the Aquos television I saw as well - it was Sharp indeed. Insignia is supposedly a disguised LG. When I lived in Korea LG was the premium television brand and Samsung was the low rent stuff. In Japan LG was priced way above Samsung and Sony and was Japan's leading brand. My Korean friend mentioned that LG was their top brand. Having said that they have a lot of interesting Hyundai and Kia cars that are not sold in the west. He said they ship all the poor cars to the west because we'll buy anything LOL, while they keep the best models at home.

It's difficult to know what the hell is being sent to the west. Assuming that LG is the best LCD brand in the world as my Korean and Japanese friends indicate - it seems those "best" ones are not the ones being sent to North America because they seem to get 3rd place status behind Sony and Samsung. But I find online reviews are not current enough. Some publications rave about Vizio and others think it's a dog.

If you are a videophile and watch lots of Blu-Ray from what I can tell you should be buying a Plasma - they seem to be the best option. If you watch a lot of television - and not a lot of movies then the off brands are fine because the best TVs won't put their quality to good use. If you sit fairly far away the difference between 720P and 1080P won't make much difference, and many reviews seem to indicate that some 120hz versus 60hz is difficult to see and not really worth the expense, and if you play video games forget Plasma. And with Plasma you probably MUST buy the 4 year or longer warranty which may blow any savings they offer.

Personally, I might go with 32 inches now and wait for a front projector system that can allow for a much larger screen - prices of those are falling fast. Three years ago I saw a Panasonic system $1600 projector and maybe $500 for this special screen in a well lit room and it was very impressive. That was a special Christmas sale price but it had a nicer more film quality picture to me than any LCD I have seen. Surely there must be better FP systems than that one today for $1500.

[RGA]

Okay Smokey I have found the best television on the market at 42 inches - no holds barred and under $1000. LG's new Slim 42LD630. 240hz, 1080p - but why is it the best TV because Mark Levinson did the sound. That's right Mark Levinson designed the invisible speaker system - LOL. So no need for your surround sound receivers and other cluttered loudspeakers. Woohoo.

Seriously for $999 it looks to be quite impressive. I like the new slim designs and it seems packed with all the latest stuff - even has a headphone jack which is nice.

So Far this is my leading candidate. http://www.lg.com/ca_en/tv-audio-video/tv/LG-lcd-tv-42LD630.jsp

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/lg-electronics-lg-slim-42-1080p-240hz-lcd-hdtv-42ld630-42ld630/10145525.aspx?path=649ca50cbbd2cd314daa8f15aa4a2fa 5en02

[Smokey]

Thanks RGA for info. I like to have larger size, but I am restricted to 37 inch due to width of entertainment center.

Insignia LCD seem to be good TVs for money, and from reveiws, much better than low brand names such as Proscan or Dynex. I found this web site where it rate LCD and Plasma TVs from 52 to 32 inch, and measure their color temperature, blacklevels, gray scale, etc..

Very informative:

http://www.televisioninfo.com/ratings.php

[pixelthis]

Believe me when I say it is rough out there :nonod:

When looking at LCDs in the store, picture quality on them look good to awesome even on cheap ones. But when reading their reviews on net, there seem to be everthing wrong with those LCDs.

Its called propaganda smoke, been going on for awhile, except in the modern
corporate world its called marketing.
DIDNT THE new LED LCD sets look great? And BTW, when are you gonna break down and pull the chain, are you gonna be like that guy with the lamp, wandering forever , looking for an honest man?
Or the guy who didnt buy a color set till 1989, said he was waiting for them to perfect it?:1:

[RGA]

I read the site and I would look carefully at Insignia here. If you notice they had a top score in the 35-39 inch part but there really isn't much competition. The model series is the same as their other tvs and in the 40-44 inch part they were dead last. This implies to me that their 37 inch model would also score near the bottom if they did not separate the sizes. In other words if they had a list from 35-44 inches the Insignias would both be near the bottom of the heap. The LG 37 is $180 more but they actually seem to like it a bit better (perhaps the Insignia wins on value) but the LG is 240hz refresh and the price has come down. Though I can't find these models in Canada.

I noticed that LG has done quite well in all the reviews I have seen CR and the like and they seem to be priced a bit lower.

Too bad you can't go higher than 37 because it seems like the better technology is in the 40 inch and up group for not a whole lot more. Have you considered getting rid of the entertainment center. My mom bought the 40 inch SONY TV and it is very nice and quite large - but if she could do it again she would have bought the 50 or 55 incher.

I am looking at 32 inch because I live a bit like transient and don't want to be lugging a huge tc all over the place. But the slim TV's with the slim boxes make 40 inch a possibility now.

[pixelthis]

Thanks RGA for info. I like to have larger size, but I am restricted to 37 inch due to width of entertainment center.

Insignia LCD seem to be good TVs for money, and from reveiws, much better than low brand names such as Proscan or Dynex. I found this web site where it rate LCD and Plasma TVs from 52 to 32 inch, and measure their color temperature, blacklevels, gray scale, etc..

Very informative:

http://www.televisioninfo.com/ratings.php

They are good for the money...But!!..YOU CAN GET A LOT MORE for the money if you spend just a little more money. Or maybe its just me, but Insignia has never floated my boat.
AS FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT CENTER, its time for a new one, or do like a friend did,
saw off the top half, hang the TV.
Vizio has about the best 37" for the money, although a friend loves his 42" PHILLIPS.
My 37" VIZIO at my parents is going on four years old, still looks great.
They are about the best cheap TV maker out there, although I did see some element
sets at WALFART, thought they were defunct.:1:

[kevlarus]

I am looking at 32 inch because I live a bit like transient and don't want to be lugging a huge tc all over the place. But the slim TV's with the slim boxes make 40 inch a possibility now.


There is a HUGE weight difference. I went from 27" tube (flat panel) to 32" LCD. I could barely move the 27", but it's nothing to lift and lug around the LCD. There's room for a cat to walk across in front and in back of the tv at the same time now.

Hate it when they sit and look at you directly in front of the screen...

[PeruvianSkies]

They are good for the money...But!!..YOU CAN GET A LOT MORE for the money if you spend just a little more money. Or maybe its just me, but Insignia has never floated my boat.
AS FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT CENTER, its time for a new one, or do like a friend did,
saw off the top half, hang the TV.
Vizio has about the best 37" for the money, although a friend loves his 42" PHILLIPS.
My 37" VIZIO at my parents is going on four years old, still looks great.
They are about the best cheap TV maker out there, although I did see some element
sets at WALFART, thought they were defunct.:1:


....by the phrase "at my parents" do you mean upstairs?

[PeruvianSkies]

Thanks RGA for info. I like to have larger size, but I am restricted to 37 inch due to width of entertainment center.

Insignia LCD seem to be good TVs for money, and from reveiws, much better than low brand names such as Proscan or Dynex. I found this web site where it rate LCD and Plasma TVs from 52 to 32 inch, and measure their color temperature, blacklevels, gray scale, etc..

Very informative:

http://www.televisioninfo.com/ratings.php

Smokster....

Buy the best TV you can buy right now for the money, the largest size with the best colors, resolution, and functionality. A TV is an investment designed to last several years, hopefully 10 or more and longer than that if you don't mind having one that is outdated.

[pixelthis]

....by the phrase "at my parents" do you mean upstairs?

so IT WASN'T A NIGHTMARE.
That schizo nutcase, that melted down, started telling lies, and harrasing me to the point of a restraining order, who was chased off this site fully encased in tar and feathers...
HES' BACK.
And no, I DONT MEAN "UPSTAIRS", you see, after you graduate from high school,
you move from your parents house, as you will discover one day.
THEN , AFTER you live your life, and your family homes neighborhood has
deteriated(pretty much like your mental health) you discover two old folks afraid to
step outside, who are stuck where they are.
I HAVE LIVED my life, I have nothing to prove, and since I AM SINGLE, I get to take care
of the folks.
Unlike you, who never moved out in the first place.:1:

[bobsticks]

This should get interesting...

[GMichael]

FA? Got any of that popcorn left?

[pixelthis]

This should get interesting...

You shoulda been here last time...
WWIII with enhancements.
Hint...don't dis his speakers, his fragil ego will keep him on your back for months:1:

[Smokey]

IThe LG 37 is $180 more but they actually seem to like it a bit better (perhaps the Insignia wins on value) but the LG is 240hz refresh and the price has come down. Though I can't find these models in Canada.

I noticed that LG has done quite well in all the reviews I have seen CR and the like and they seem to be priced a bit lower.

What I like about LG is that it give users control over its color temperature and gray scale, so it can be calibrated to corrcet temperature (6500k degree) without going into its service menu (its called ISFcc).

LCDs like Sony, Toshiba or Panasonic will not let users adjust color temperature without getting the service manual ($50) which also can get complicated.


They are good for the money...But!!..YOU CAN GET A LOT MORE for the money if you spend just a little more money. Or maybe its just me, but Insignia has never floated my boat.
AS FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT CENTER, its time for a new one, or do like a friend did,
saw off the top half, hang the TV.
Vizio has about the best 37" for the money, although a friend loves his 42" PHILLIPS.
My 37" VIZIO at my parents is going on four years old, still looks great.
They are about the best cheap TV maker out there, although I did see some element
sets at WALFART, thought they were defunct.

Pix, I thought you said you are going to clean up your post, and use back space to get rid of hard carrige return between your sentences. If you are not going to take time fixing your post, don't expect us to take time reading it.

[Woochifer]

This one looked quite good in the store and is a brand I've seen out for quite some time. I'm trying to get more info on them. It's a 40 but they have 32 versions. Toshiba had a 37 inch model for around this money. Toshiba is a name brand.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/insignia-insignia-42-1080p-120hz-lcd-hdtv-ns-42l550a11-ns-42l550a11/10138696.aspx?path=870005dbf3a5a228e67c4bb54687fce aen02

An article written on CNET 6 years ago about this off brand stuff might be of interest http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-5510938-1.html

Back then you were saving 1/3 or more of the list price but today you are only saving a hundred to two hundred dollars.

Therein lies the rub with going to the off brands. With an off brand TV, you're basically buying a disposable TV because they're made during one-off manufacturing runs -- two models from the same off brand might come from entirely different outsource suppliers. No service manuals, limited availability of spare parts, and spotty post warranty support at best. With my Panasonic, I can order any part for the TV off their website -- every part is listed, and service manuals are available for purchase. Name brand TV manufacturers have a full customer service infrastructure, and that's part of the price difference.

When flat panel TVs cost more than $2,000, the off brand pricing made the tradeoffs more worthwhile.


Granted the off brands are probably a lot better than they were. I really like the Aquos television I saw as well - it was Sharp indeed. Insignia is supposedly a disguised LG. When I lived in Korea LG was the premium television brand and Samsung was the low rent stuff. In Japan LG was priced way above Samsung and Sony and was Japan's leading brand. My Korean friend mentioned that LG was their top brand.

But, you also have to consider that Samsung is a much more established name in North America. LG is a relative newcomer to this market -- they made their move to more upscale markets by offering up some extra features like built in DVRs and THX calibration, and including longer warranties (not sure if they still include two-year warranties standard). But, LG had to do that, because they were otherwise not competitive with the other brands. FWIW, the enthusiast sites generally rank LG below Samsung and Sony on measures like color accuracy and motion resolution.


Having said that they have a lot of interesting Hyundai and Kia cars that are not sold in the west. He said they ship all the poor cars to the west because we'll buy anything LOL, while they keep the best models at home.

Or alternatively, they didn't ship their best cars west because they knew they would be noncompetitive against other makes and models that are sold here. Hyundai and Kia were only able to gain a foothold in the North American market because at that time, lower Korean labor costs enabled them to undercut Japanese, American, and European competitors on price. Granted, they have substantially upped their product quality and now make most of the cars they sell here in North America.


It's difficult to know what the hell is being sent to the west. Assuming that LG is the best LCD brand in the world as my Korean and Japanese friends indicate - it seems those "best" ones are not the ones being sent to North America because they seem to get 3rd place status behind Sony and Samsung. But I find online reviews are not current enough. Some publications rave about Vizio and others think it's a dog.

Frankly, I don't know anyone who says that LG is the best LCD brand in the world. What they are is a first-tier manufacturer (i.e., one that makes its products, and offers up full customer support) that very competitively prices its products, relative to the best selling brands. LG has a lot of good products in the North American market, and they include more features for the price than other manufacturers. But, you really have to watch out because they make some very questionable design choices with a lot of their products (such as their 120 Hz models that don't allow consumers to switch off the motion interpolation feature). For the most part, Samsung and Sony do things the right way with their LCD TVs.


If you are a videophile and watch lots of Blu-Ray from what I can tell you should be buying a Plasma - they seem to be the best option. If you watch a lot of television - and not a lot of movies then the off brands are fine because the best TVs won't put their quality to good use.

Not necessarily. IMO, the biggest advantage with plasma will continue to be the viewing angle -- the color accuracy remains the same no matter what angle you're at. And that's a big benefit if you sit off-center or have company over, no matter if you're watching video or film-based content.


If you sit fairly far away the difference between 720P and 1080P won't make much difference,

That's also contingent on the screen size. At 50", I think the difference is clearly visible at normal viewing distance. At 42" or below, it's marginal.


and many reviews seem to indicate that some 120hz versus 60hz is difficult to see and not really worth the expense,

Better not be professional reviewers, because the juddering effect with film-based sources on a 60 Hz TV is noticeable if you look for it. 120 Hz (or 72 Hz and 96 Hz with plasma sets) will reduce the judder if it's implemented correctly.


and if you play video games forget Plasma.

Groundbeef is one of the biggest gamers on this site, and he uses a plasma set. And another consideration if you use a Wii is that LCD screens are a lot easier to damage with a flying Wiimote. (It takes a much lower impact force to render a LCD screen unwatchable than to crack the glass on a plasma panel)


And with Plasma you probably MUST buy the 4 year or longer warranty which may blow any savings they offer.

The three-year reliability record for plasma sets is no different than with LCDs.


Personally, I might go with 32 inches now and wait for a front projector system that can allow for a much larger screen - prices of those are falling fast. Three years ago I saw a Panasonic system $1600 projector and maybe $500 for this special screen in a well lit room and it was very impressive. That was a special Christmas sale price but it had a nicer more film quality picture to me than any LCD I have seen. Surely there must be better FP systems than that one today for $1500.

Talk to GM and some of the others with front projection setups. The prices on projectors have been low for a while, but you're now getting better picture quality in the lower price ranges.

[RGA]

Woochifer

You seem really up on this stuff. What are your thoughts on Plasma for gaming. My plan is Sony PS3 - Honestly I don't play a lot of games but with the new games you tend to sit and play them for a few hours. Gone are the days of 20 minutes of Pac-Man. The games are kind of addicting. My concern is the burning colours into the screen. I had an old JVC tube television that actually burned a pink spot on the screen (could not be degaused as a fix).

Plasma seems to have a bad rap for losing life and once it runs out of plasma the screen is dead. But they seem a fair bit less expensive up here than LCD Televisions.

I remember that when Plasma first came out the consensus was that the picture was way better than LCD. Is a 40 inch 720p Plasma competitive with 1080 LCD. Is there anything to be looking for with Plasma.

I kind of wrote them off and maybe that was unfair.

I have a Sony Bravia 40 inch LCD here and if I have a complaint it's that some faces seem to morph - the forehead will move but the rest of the face doesn't. It's kind of weird. Noticeable in the center of the screen. Happens on TV program not on DVDs.

[pixelthis]

Woochifer

You seem really up on this stuff. What are your thoughts on Plasma for gaming. My plan is Sony PS3 - Honestly I don't play a lot of games but with the new games you tend to sit and play them for a few hours. Gone are the days of 20 minutes of Pac-Man. The games are kind of addicting. My concern is the burning colours into the screen. I had an old JVC tube television that actually burned a pink spot on the screen (could not be degaused as a fix).

Plasma seems to have a bad rap for losing life and once it runs out of plasma the screen is dead. But they seem a fair bit less expensive up here than LCD Televisions.

I remember that when Plasma first came out the consensus was that the picture was way better than LCD. Is a 40 inch 720p Plasma competitive with 1080 LCD. Is there anything to be looking for with Plasma.

I kind of wrote them off and maybe that was unfair.

I have a Sony Bravia 40 inch LCD here and if I have a complaint it's that some faces seem to morph - the forehead will move but the rest of the face doesn't. It's kind of weird. Noticeable in the center of the screen. Happens on TV program not on DVDs.

THEY DON'T "RUN OUTTA PLASMA", but leaking gases that produce the plasma used to
be a problem, not so much anymore.
But burn in is, they claim to have fixed it, but the "fix"(a circuit that has the pic jumping around like a MEXICAN JUMPING BEAN) is a nusciance. On balance a LCD is better
for gaming...and just about everything else.
As for cheap TV sets, the tv has evolved into a non-fixable , disposable appliance,
two forms, one, a cheap disposable device with a decent pic, the thing breaks, toss it.
THE OTHER FORM is a long lasting but relatively more costly family heirloom, hand it down to the kids when you're ready to replace it(or the grandkids!):1:

[Johnny B. Galt]

Smokey:
A couple of years ago, I was in the same boat. In order to have TV in our living room, I ran into a spousal restriction of having it fit inside an antique armoire. 37" was the largest that would fit. At the time, there were more options. I went with a Vizio because it was inexpensive and locally available. It also had problems. After two service calls, it went back to Sams. They cheerfully gave me my money back and I ordered a Toshiba Regza online. Its been a great TV but does have limitations. I am annoyed by the motion blur when watching basketball. Of course, Toshiba then introduced their super-thin bezel line and I found out a 40" in it would fit in the same space. Maybe they are still around online? Every time I watch that TV, I wish it was larger....

[Smokey]

I went with a Vizio because it was inexpensive and locally available. It also had problems. After two service calls, it went back to Sams.

Vizio seem to be good value for the money but from your experience and other reviews, their TV production seem to be very uneven. You might get one TV that is flawless, but the next one in line is a lemon. Also as Wooch mentioned, they lack customer service infrastructure, so better pray nothing goes wrong with it. Also their LCD reviews is nothing to write home about.



They cheerfully gave me my money back and I ordered a Toshiba Regza online. Its been a great TV but does have limitations. I am annoyed by the motion blur when watching basketball. Of course, Toshiba then introduced their super-thin bezel line and I found out a 40" in it would fit in the same space.

I don't know if you know this or not, but Toshiba started outsourcing their lower-mid end CRT and LCD TVs few years back (I think it was to Funai). So it is only Toshiba in name. Too bad though as they use to make some of best TVs in industry right up there with Sony and Panasonic.

[Smokey]

That's also contingent on the screen size. At 50", I think the difference [720P vs 1080P] is clearly visible at normal viewing distance. At 42" or below, it's marginal.

With bluray native resolution being 1080p, that comment might be irrelevant and outdated :)

[Woochifer]

With bluray native resolution being 1080p, that comment might be irrelevant and outdated :)

How would it be irrelevant? You're seeing more and more 1080p HDTVs in the smaller screen sizes. It's not really necessary because at normal viewing distances, you'd be hard pressed to see any difference from the lower priced 720p sets.

[Woochifer]

Woochifer

You seem really up on this stuff. What are your thoughts on Plasma for gaming. My plan is Sony PS3 - Honestly I don't play a lot of games but with the new games you tend to sit and play them for a few hours. Gone are the days of 20 minutes of Pac-Man. The games are kind of addicting. My concern is the burning colours into the screen. I had an old JVC tube television that actually burned a pink spot on the screen (could not be degaused as a fix).

With the newer plasma sets, you really have to have a fixed graphic on screen for a long time to get temporary image retention. Permanent burn in on the newer plasma sets really requires a lot of abuse. You just need pay attention and use a little common sense (i.e., don't leave static images on-screen for days on end). The newer anti-retention features are not at all noticeable (there's no mexican jumping bean effect -- that's old info).


Plasma seems to have a bad rap for losing life and once it runs out of plasma the screen is dead. But they seem a fair bit less expensive up here than LCD Televisions.

Plasma doesn't run out. The phosphors simply fade over time -- in principle, not much different than CRTs. The newer plasma panels have a rated service life (where the maximum light output reaches 50%) of 100,000 hours, which is higher than the CCFL backlights on LCD TVs.


I remember that when Plasma first came out the consensus was that the picture was way better than LCD. Is a 40 inch 720p Plasma competitive with 1080 LCD. Is there anything to be looking for with Plasma.

LCD picture quality has come a long way, but plasma TVs have also improved during that time. LCD and plasma have addressed many of their earlier weaknesses, but some differences are inherent to the design itself. The bottomline is that plasmas will never match the maximum light output of LCD, and LCD will never match the viewing angle of plasma. I chose plasma because I like the more film-like quality of the images. Now that I'm used to a plasma set, the off-angle color shifting with LCD TVs is very noticeable. Some people that like bright picture settings with LCDs probably won't like the lower light output on plasmas either.

The smallest plasma panel being made right now is 42". Panasonic is the only manufacturer that makes 42" plasma panels at 1080p resolution. Samsung and LG only make 720p panels in that size.


I have a Sony Bravia 40 inch LCD here and if I have a complaint it's that some faces seem to morph - the forehead will move but the rest of the face doesn't. It's kind of weird. Noticeable in the center of the screen. Happens on TV program not on DVDs.

You might have the picture set to some kind of justified stretch mode. The regular stretch mode will reformat the 4:3 images to 16:9 uniformly, which makes everybody on screen look fat. The justified stretch mode will lessen the stretch in the middle of the picture and progressively elongate the stretch as you get further to the sides.

If it's a SD TV program, you should try setting the aspect ratio to 4:3 (pillarboxed mode).

[Smokey]

How would it be irrelevant? You're seeing more and more 1080p HDTVs in the smaller screen sizes. It's not really necessary because at normal viewing distances, you'd be hard pressed to see any difference from the lower priced 720p sets.

I know what you are saying. But my argument was choosing a 720p set soley base on that fact might not be the best route. A 720p set will compromise 1080i and 1080p sources regardless.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

With the newer plasma sets, you really have to have a fixed graphic on screen for a long time to get temporary image retention. Permanent burn in on the newer plasma sets really requires a lot of abuse. You just need pay attention and use a little common sense. The newer anti-retention features are not at all noticeable (there's no mexican jumping bean effect -- that's old info).

Adding to this, a properly calibrated plasma will eliminate any chances of getting burn in. Burn in does not just come from leaving a static image on the screen. It comes from leaving a static image on the screen that has the contrast and brightness too high.



LCD picture quality has come a long way, but plasma TVs have also improved during that time. LCD and plasma have addressed many of their earlier weaknesses, but some differences are inherent to the design itself. The bottomline is that plasmas will never match the maximum light output of LCD, and LCD will never match the viewing angle of plasma. I chose plasma because I like the more film-like quality of the images. Now that I'm used to a plasma set, the off-angle color shifting with LCD TVs is very noticeable. Some people that like bright picture settings with LCDs probably won't the lower light output on plasmas either.

I don't get this off angle bit, even though I know it is true. I want to know who watches their sets at the angles where changes of the color happen. I know on one of my Sony's, I would have to be sitting so far to the side for the color to change, that it makes the picture unwatchable even if the color didn't change


You might have the picture set to some kind of justified stretch mode. The regular stretch mode will reformat the 4:3 images to 16:9 uniformly, which makes everybody on screen look fat. The justified stretch mode will lessen the stretch in the middle of the picture and progressively elongate the stretch as you get further to the sides.

If it's a SD TV program, you should try setting the aspect ratio to 4:3 (pillarboxed mode).

I good stretch mode will just stretch the picture without adding any artifacts. Sony is particularly good at this, and so is Samsung.

[GMichael]

I'd rather have the grey bars to each side than to use any of the stretch modes available. Artifacts or not, stretching is just wrong IMO.

[Woochifer]

Adding to this, a properly calibrated plasma will eliminate any chances of getting burn in. Burn in does not just come from leaving a static image on the screen. It comes from leaving a static image on the screen that has the contrast and brightness too high.


Although I will say that some video game images do produce much higher contrast images than what you will typically see from TV or disc content.


I don't get this off angle bit, even though I know it is true. I want to know who watches their sets at the angles where changes of the color happen. I know on one of my Sony's, I would have to be sitting so far to the side for the color to change, that it makes the picture unwatchable even if the color didn't change

Here are some clips from Displaymate's website (they sell calibration software, but also post some interesting test articles) where they photographed some test images at different angles. The article goes to great lengths to identify the angles at which color shifting begins. For the LCD sets that they tested, you did not have to go too far off-center for image alterations become visible. Once I picked up on the off-center color shifting, it's became a distraction whenever I go over to somebody's house and watch something on a LCD TV.

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image006.jpg
Panasonic plasma at 0 degree angle
http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image007.jpg
Panasonic plasma at 45 degree angle

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image008.jpg
Sony LCD at 0 degree angle
http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image009.jpg
Sony LCD at 45 degree angle

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut.htm

I also think that it could have to do with the type of LCD panel used -- not all LCD panels are created alike. From my understanding, IPS panels have the widest viewing angle, but they are also the most expensive ones to produce. PVA panels cost less and offer up similar color resolution, but have a slightly narrower viewing angle. The least expensive TN panels are more common with computer monitors, and rarely used with TVs because of their narrow viewing angle and lower color range. Unless it's in the literature, the only way you can identify the type of LCD panel used by a TV is to open up the back panel and check the OEM number. The HD Guru site also posts info about the LCD panel type used in certain models.

Panasonic uses IPS panels exclusively for their LCD TVs (since they are a prominent OEM vendor of IPS LCD panels), and I think that Sharp and Hitachi also use IPS panels. Sony and Samsung manufacture and use both types


I good stretch mode will just stretch the picture without adding any artifacts. Sony is particularly good at this, and so is Samsung.

The thing is that some people just don't like to see everything look fat on screen. With my Panny, the justified mode will keep the proportions closer to normal towards the center of the screen. This works surprisingly well since most TV programs tend to direct the action towards the center of the screen. But, it still looks strange because any stretch mode is going to muck around with the picture quite a bit. LG I think calls it horizon mode and it's more of a zoom feature that stretches the image, but keep the proportions more normal by cropping some of the top and bottom.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Although I will say that some video game images do produce much higher contrast images than what you will typically see from TV or disc content.



Here are some clips from Displaymate's website (they sell calibration software, but also post some interesting test articles) where they photographed some test images at different angles. The article goes to great lengths to identify the angles at which color shifting begins. For the LCD sets that they tested, you did not have to go too far off-center for image alterations become visible. Once I picked up on the off-center color shifting, it's became a distraction whenever I go over to somebody's house and watch something on a LCD TV.

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image006.jpg
Panasonic plasma at 0 degree angle
http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image007.jpg
Panasonic plasma at 45 degree angle

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image008.jpg
Sony LCD at 0 degree angle
http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut_files/image009.jpg
Sony LCD at 45 degree angle

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut.htm

I also think that it could have to do with the type of LCD panel used -- not all LCD panels are created alike. From my understanding, IPS panels have the widest viewing angle, but they are also the most expensive ones to produce. PVA panels cost less and offer up similar color resolution, but have a slightly narrower viewing angle. The least expensive TN panels are more common with computer monitors, and rarely used with TVs because of their narrow viewing angle and lower color range. Unless it's in the literature, the only way you can identify the type of LCD panel used by a TV is to open up the back panel and check the OEM number. The HD Guru site also posts info about the LCD panel type used in certain models.

Panasonic uses IPS panels exclusively for their LCD TVs (since they are a prominent OEM vendor of IPS LCD panels), and I think that Sharp and Hitachi also use IPS panels. Sony and Samsung manufacture and use both types



The thing is that some people just don't like to see everything look fat on screen. With my Panny, the justified mode will keep the proportions closer to normal towards the center of the screen. This works surprisingly well since most TV programs tend to direct the action towards the center of the screen. But, it still looks strange because any stretch mode is going to muck around with the picture quite a bit. LG I think calls it horizon mode and it's more of a zoom feature that stretches the image, but keep the proportions more normal by cropping some of the top and bottom.

I have seen this test, and have some displaymate software I use for calibration.

I know all of the Sony sets I own use the IPS panel, because Sony uses these panels on their mid and higher end models. I also know they use IPS panels for their 3D sets, and Samsung does as well.

I got a really good price on Panasonic's 65" 3D plasma panels. They regularly sell for a hair less than 5G's, but I got them for $2600 a piece. I am going to use one in my Orlando home, and the other two in my studio. My accountant wanted to kill me dead, but the deal was too good to resist.

[RGA]

So an update. The Philips 240hz models seem to be a gimmick. The fellow at FS said that most people wind up turning the motion blur thing completely off - he says it's not a true 240hz model and the 1ms response time is a gimmick. Though it looks fine.

He doesn't like the LG models because there is a problem with the sync on a lot of them for video game players, audio and video not in sync. the 32 inch Philips advertises right on the box "PC-In" and yet has no PC VGA connection LOL.

He said the Samsung and Sony 60hz 1080p 40inch will be more than fine at a distance larger than 6 feet and that many don't really see the benefit of the 120hz. Unless it's sports. He said for movies or PS3 games there is no advantage. The backlight is worthwhile but only in the XBR models which are about 4 times the money. He was also not impressed by paying more for the light level adjustments. He also noted that Sony, Sharp, and Samsung 60hz TVs are usually better than the 120 hz models from the others.

So there are two 40 inch TV's - both 1080P both 60hz. The Samsung LN40C530 40 is less expensive than the Sony and has a swivel stand. To get 120hz version seems to be close to 50% more money. just doesn't seem worth if it.

Customer satisfaction seems pretty high to boot. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1T4SUNC_enCA359CA359&q=Samsung+LN40C530+40&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=14303778421112769995&ei=Cu1ITKmHMYv4sAPs0IRJ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCQQ8wIwAg&os=reviews

[Woochifer]

So an update. The Philips 240hz models seem to be a gimmick. The fellow at FS said that most people wind up turning the motion blur thing completely off - he says it's not a true 240hz model and the 1ms response time is a gimmick. Though it looks fine.

240 Hz can make a difference if it's correctly implemented, even with the motion interpolation switched off. But, keep in mind that many 240 Hz TVs, especially those in the lower price ranges, implement it by simply strobing the backlight. The screen itself does not actually refresh at that rate, and aside from being a deceptive marketing ploy, strobing the backlight at 240 Hz with a 120 Hz LCD panel has the net effect of reducing the maximum light output by about half.

Sony and Samsung implement 240 Hz correctly by using two separate video processors, each running at 120 Hz. I don't think that any video processors have a native 240 Hz rate yet, so this expensive method is the only way to do it correctly at the moment.

The thing you have to remember about going to 120 Hz and 240 Hz refresh is that they are supposed to reduce motion blur and juddering. The higher refresh rate can already help reduce motion blur, while the motion interpolation feature further smooths out the picture (but at the expense of all kinds of video artifacts that make the picture look fake).


He said the Samsung and Sony 60hz 1080p 40inch will be more than fine at a distance larger than 6 feet and that many don't really see the benefit of the 120hz. Unless it's sports.

Actually, the other benefit of 120 Hz (or any other even numbered multiple of 24, such as 72 Hz or 96 Hz) is the judder reduction on film-based sources. Where you really see judder is with the end credits or with any slow panning scenes.

[pixelthis]

So an update. The Philips 240hz models seem to be a gimmick. The fellow at FS said that most people wind up turning the motion blur thing completely off - he says it's not a true 240hz model and the 1ms response time is a gimmick. Though it looks fine.

He doesn't like the LG models because there is a problem with the sync on a lot of them for video game players, audio and video not in sync. the 32 inch Philips advertises right on the box "PC-In" and yet has no PC VGA connection LOL.

He said the Samsung and Sony 60hz 1080p 40inch will be more than fine at a distance larger than 6 feet and that many don't really see the benefit of the 120hz. Unless it's sports. He said for movies or PS3 games there is no advantage. The backlight is worthwhile but only in the XBR models which are about 4 times the money. He was also not impressed by paying more for the light level adjustments. He also noted that Sony, Sharp, and Samsung 60hz TVs are usually better than the 120 hz models from the others.

So there are two 40 inch TV's - both 1080P both 60hz. The Samsung LN40C530 40 is less expensive than the Sony and has a swivel stand. To get 120hz version seems to be close to 50% more money. just doesn't seem worth if it.

Customer satisfaction seems pretty high to boot. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1T4SUNC_enCA359CA359&q=Samsung+LN40C530+40&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=14303778421112769995&ei=Cu1ITKmHMYv4sAPs0IRJ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCQQ8wIwAg&os=reviews

TALK to another salesman.
Every modern set has a backlight control, and they can make a difference, they allow you to increase black level in a dim room, for instance.
SONY, sharp, and Samsung do tend to be better, but cost better, and I have not found a 60hz that can beat a 120 hz, not saying they don't exist, but every 120hz I have seen has looked fine.
240hz is under the law of diminishing returns, 75% of the picture is fake, extrapolated
frames, unless your processor is amazing you are not even watching anything real most of the time.
The PC thing is a minor issue, an HDMI adapter ( or a component adapter) will work fine.
A video card with HDMI is less than a hundred bucks.
A vga to DVI connected to a DVI- HDMI or any number of combinations works fine.
CANT beleive what you heard about the backlight, its absolutely rediculous.
In a dim room I turn mine down to 25% sometimes, the black levels look amazing.
Finally, a friend has a 46" SAMSUNG, bought a 42" PHILLIPS for his bedroom, likes
the pic better than his Samsung.
Go figure:1:

[RGA]

Pixelthis

The thing is when I look at them I like the Philips the best but the settings may just be better out of the box.

It's basically between these

Philips http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/philips-philips-40-1080p-240hz-lcd-hdtv-40pfl5505-40pfl5505/10145790.aspx?path=e99bbfcfd03961e7d24900aff6bbb9c een02

Sony http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/sony-sony-bravia-40-1080p-lcd-hdtv-kdl40ex400-black-kdl40ex400/10139060.aspx?path=935494de9cfdbe518d04739b241bcac ben02

Samsung
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/samsung-samsung-40-1080p-lcd-hdtv-ln40c530-ln40c530f1fxzc/10140413.aspx?path=6f34b5f5cf3f40cd4f2be56e1f2a84a ben02

On paper the Philips looks to be by far the best of the three of them. I assume that the Philips may not be a true 240hz but would it be a true 120hz? I assume you can make selections. The 40 inch Philips does have the PC VGA - just the 32 does not but they obviously just use the same box screening.

Both the Sony and Samsung are 60hz - the Sony has auto light adjustment for the room. Samsung's does not but has the swivel which would be useful - not a big deal though.

The guy who works for Philips testing them claims that it is a true 240hz so now I am thinking maybe FS (commission) is trying to get rid of the 60hz televisions - maybe has more money in it?