Is DACMAGIC an upgrade for the NAD C525BEE ?

[ygg-it]

Do you think we can get a big improvement to get a DACMAGIC joint to the NAD C525 ?
(so getting rid of the NAD C525 DAC section)


I read somewhere that there is no differences between the DACMAGIC and the NAD 525 DAC section...:nonod: so I'm not sure..

Thanks!

[luvtolisten]

Hi & Welcome!
Strictly my opinion, for what it's worth, I wouldn't call it an upgrade, but you may hear a different sound, which may, or may not be to your liking, a matter of taste I would say. Within the past 2 years I bought the Dac Magic, a NAD T754 receiver, a Cambridge Audio A640-V2A (integrated amp) and a Marantz CD4001 (5 disc CD changer).

I compared the Dac Magic with the DAC in the NAD, using the digital output of the Marantz 4001. I could hear , just a slight difference. The NAD has what is described as a "dark sound". Perhaps the bass is a bit more noticeable. The Dac Magic seemed a little brighter, but not harsh, maybe extended, the low end was good, but not as pronounced to me as the NAD, yet still pleasant.

I compared the Dac Magic with the Marantz 4001,using the digital output to the Dac Magic, and the analog output of the Marantz to the Cambridge A640-V2. To me the difference was even less o slight. So much so that I use the Marantz for playing CD's, (using the analog output) and the Dac Magic (because the 640 has no DAC) for playing iTunes from my laptop connected to the 640.

The salesman told me I would hear a "night and day" difference,when I first inquired about the Dac Magic, which I found to be an exaggeration.I think your NAD is new enough, I wouldn't call it an upgrade, but a slight change in sound. Better or worse depends on your taste.

To be honest, I like both sounds, which would I pick? I really don't know. I like having the option, even though I think (just my own opinion mind you) the difference is slight.

[Mr Peabody]

I tend to agree, the difference would be more of a change in sound opposed to upgrade. You'll have to travel up the food chain a bit to achieve an actual upgrade.

[02audionoob]

Another agreement here. It seems like the real quality DACs start at around $1,000...although I've always been intrigued by the Grant Fidelity DAC-09, which is apparently a re-badged Xiang Sheng model.

[blackraven]

Go with a PS Audio Digilink III DAC. You can usually find them used on Audiogon for around $600.

[poppachubby]

Even the older PSA Digilinks, V1 and 2 are great DAC's. The first version only does 16/44.1 but believe me, it does it extremely well.

I have heard the DACMagic several times and have never been impressed with it. IMO, it's overpriced. Cambridge junkies love to talk about how great it is and that it performs past it's price point. I don't feel that's true at all. My basic and "cheap" 4 x TDA 1543 DAC sounds just as good IMO for a 1/4 the cost.

[Mr Peabody]

Unless just wanting a DAC you might consider trying the Emotiva ERC-1. I put it side by side against the NAD 545 and I thought the ERC-1 was better in every aspect except bottom end weight, not necessarily bottom end detail or accuracy but if wanting a big bass sound the NAD would have been a better choice. The ERC-1's sound stage was massive in comparison and much more air around instruments. If you are in the U.S. you can pick up an ERC on a deal right now.

[RGA]

Do you think we can get a big improvement to get a DACMAGIC joint to the NAD C525 ?
(so getting rid of the NAD C525 DAC section)


I read somewhere that there is no differences between the DACMAGIC and the NAD 525 DAC section...:nonod: so I'm not sure..

Thanks!

Just because something is more expensive or is a dedicated DAC does not mean it will be better - or more to the point better enough to justify the expense.

If you have a relatively budget system I would hold off on upgrades until you have the money to really make significant worthwhile changes.

On the digital front for CD replay I would probably make the jump to something like the Audio Note DAC kit 2.1 as it's a major step up over the Dac 1. This would be about $1500 and you have to build it. http://www.audionotekits.com/dac2_1.html

This is about as cheap as I would go and the reason I say this is because most audiophiles with budget systems eventually intend to upgrade all their other components at some point. You don't want to be wasting money on $700-$1k components only to then want to get rid of those shortly. The Tube DAC-09 from Grant Fidelity is a great little unit but it's nowhere remotely in league with the AN DAC - it's more for people who have no tubes in their system, or DAC or perhaps a preamp (it does all three). It's a terrific little unit but it's more for a beginner.

Even with Audio Note I would probably skip their level zero and one gear because while good it too will not stave off the upgrade desires.

I attempt and would suggest you try and purchase gear that you think you will happy with for at least a decade. I am on a teacher salary so I can't afford "end of the road" products but I can afford to find gear that doesn't present that feeling of upgraditus. I would choose musicality and enjoyment where possible even if it slightly lies by ommission.

[Mr Peabody]

RGA, although I don't totally disagree, $399.00 to $1,500.00 is quite a jump. I'm sure there is something in between that would satisfy for some time. You can pick up a NAD Master series SACD for $999.00. Or, a single box Arcam.

[Feanor]

....

On the digital front for CD replay I would probably make the jump to something like the Audio Note DAC kit 2.1 as it's a major step up over the Dac 1. This would be about $1500 and you have to build it. http://www.audionotekits.com/dac2_1.html

This is about as cheap as I would go and the reason I say this is because most audiophiles with budget systems eventually intend to upgrade all their other components at some point. You don't want to be wasting money on $700-$1k components only to then want to get rid of those shortly. The Tube DAC-09 from Grant Fidelity is a great little unit but it's nowhere remotely in league with the AN DAC - it's more for people who have no tubes in their system, or DAC or perhaps a preamp (it does all three). It's a terrific little unit but it's more for a beginner.
...
Without discussing the particular merits of the Audio Note DAC, I disagree strongly with this advice for a person getting into hifi with a small budget. To wit the extra $1000 spend on a DAC will deliver a very small increment of sound quality compared to the same amount spent on speakers or amplfier.

Furthermore it's unwarranted to assume that a given individual is about to embark on a long trail of upgrades.

[poppachubby]

I know where Rich is coming from, he always assumes the most from a poster. In this case, he assumes the poster will want to take his interests and hobby to the best it can be. Where it comes off as crass is when the dollar figures are attached.

To the OP, you should investigate the TDA 1543 and non oversampling applications. They tend to be very basic electronically, and therefore cost effective. Soundwise very smooth, detailed and well, musical. I would reccomend just punching the subject into your browser, and away you go.

I have compared my modest little DAC to several and although it doesn't always blow them away, second thoughts/listens are generally needed. You would have to spend quite a bit of cash to defeat it, and I can assure you the DACmagic doesn't have the goods.

Check these machines out, WAY moremusical than the Cambridge unit...

http://www.pacificvalve.us/LITEDACAH.html

http://www.pacificvalve.us/TDACCHAMELEON.html

http://www.pacificvalve.us/MusilandMD10.html

[luvtolisten]

I know where Rich is coming from, he always assumes the most from a poster. In this case, he assumes the poster will want to take his interests and hobby to the best it can be. Where it comes off as crass is when the dollar figures are attached.

To the OP, you should investigate the TDA 1543 and non oversampling applications. They tend to be very basic electronically, and therefore cost effective. Soundwise very smooth, detailed and well, musical. I would reccomend just punching the subject into your browser, and away you go.

I have compared my modest little DAC to several and although it doesn't always blow them away, second thoughts/listens are generally needed. You would have to spend quite a bit of cash to defeat it, and I can assure you the DACmagic doesn't have the goods.

Check these machines out, WAY moremusical than the Cambridge unit...

http://www.pacificvalve.us/LITEDACAH.html

http://www.pacificvalve.us/TDACCHAMELEON.html

http://www.pacificvalve.us/MusilandMD10.html

Interesting, and reasonable! Good info PoppaC.! May I add if you do look for a DAC, you may want lean toward the option of having one with a USB input as well, to use with your PC .

[poppachubby]

Interesting, and reasonable! Good info PoppaC.! May I add if you do look for a DAC, you may want lean toward the option of having one with a USB input as well, to use with your PC .

I have an Audigy Soundblaster soundcard with toslink and coax outputs. I tend to shy away from USB. I had a USB dac for sometime and found I enjoy my current set up better.

This unit contains 4 - TDA1543 chips and a DIR 9001 receiver. I can tell you that there is no digital voicing even on things like cymbals, which usually suffer at the hands of digital. This design is employed by the DIY crowd.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4374884521_6bc33e7ab4.jpg

The only dud in the TDA 15xx line up was the 1547. It was a 1-bit bitstream dac and sounded like azz.

It's a good idea for anyone who can't afford big cash but wants some decent sound. I know I am a broken record when it comes to this subject, but if I can convert even one person to digital happiness, it's worth it.

[luvtolisten]

I am enlighten. I must play 90% of my music from my PC, because it's convenient more than anything and I like a variety of songs. Is that a DYI kit that can be bought you have pictured?

[poppachubby]

Is that a DYI kit that can be bought you have pictured?

Yes and no. I bought it like this, if that's what you mean. However, you can buy the board naked or even dissasembled, and put it into your own box. I've seen pics where guys put them into clear acrylic and neat stuff like that.

If you want an affordable way to try it out, Ebay is your best option. Keep in mind you're dealing with Asian sellers.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/HI-FI-DIR9001-4X-TDA1543-parallel-connection-NOS-DAC-S-/120567505945?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c12622419

Like I said this design is popular with the DIY crowd, mostly because it's simple and uses very few parts. This means you can put more money into the parts you need, and have a real quality item. It's price and size are more a bi product of it's design, than an indicator of it's performance.

[luvtolisten]

Thank you. Now I'd like to find a sound card with digital coax/toslink for my laptop.

[frenchmon]

Do you think we can get a big improvement to get a DACMAGIC joint to the NAD C525 ?
(so getting rid of the NAD C525 DAC section)


I read somewhere that there is no differences between the DACMAGIC and the NAD 525 DAC section...:nonod: so I'm not sure..

Thanks!

while I have never heard the C525 I have had 30 days with the D-Magic and my Rotel RCC 1055 CDP. Now from what I do know about this NAD series in general, they have a more darker laid back sound. Not as much sparkle in its presentation. I did hear a NAD CDP but cant remember which model, at an audio store connected with a NAD integrad amp and DALI speakers and it did sound good, but did not have the top end sparkle I like from the tweeters. Some audio hobbyist dont mind the more laid back sound that this NAD series offers but I like a little more livelier sound. (But I do like Marantz which has a little more sparkle than NAD in my opinion) And if some one gave me one or I just could not refuse a great deal on one, I would try and liven it up a bit with brighter cables like silver cbles and brighter speakers. IF the brighter components would not do the trick, I would have to sell it.

Now I mentioned that I had a month with the DAC Magic in my own home with my Rotel CDP. While all three are in the same price class, and the Rotel being the most expensive at $699 when new, they are all very compatible in class and should be in fidelity. But the Rotel and the Magic have a more brighter sound than the NAD I suppose. So in fairness to the D-Magic I found that it offered a slightly more sweeter tone to music with a rounded sound than the Rotel CDP. The Rotel was not sweet sounding nor rounded in its presentation but brighter in detail. I did not find the sounds of the two DACs involved a night and day difference thus I could not justify keeping the Dmagic due to its pricing point. But for my laptop computer the DMagic would have been perfect.

The Dmagic in my opinion would give this same sweetness but I dont know if the characteristics of the NAD house sound would come through. While you do get good advice from audio hobbyist, the sure way of knowing is to trust you own ears. Heres an example of what I mean.

I had heard that a vintage table like Technics would sound just as good as my entry level MMF 2.1 turntable if not better than it.

So I got a chance to buy a Technics vintage table in very good condition...I would give it a 8 out of 10, and I got it at a good price of $12 bucks. Here was my chance to see if the vintage was on par with the MMF 2.1 or even better. I wanted to know if good money was wasted. The 2.1 is mint and has the 2M RED cart and the Technices has the OM 10 cart. The Red is a better cart than the OM 10 but not by that much....they share many of the same characteristics. Fired up the Technics . Sounded really really good and I thought to myself, man it may even sound better than the MMF 2.1....So after the song, I quickly removed it from the Rotel phono and plugged in the 2.1...fired it up with the same song and instantly knew which was the better deck. The difference was not subtle but very noticeable....it was a wide margin of difference. One was louder, more transparent, seemed to give more detail and just had more fidelity than the other. The MMF 2.1 blew the Vintage Technices out of the water and after listening to both decks back to back for a while, I was glad I had not spent money on the wrong deck even if the 2.1 was given to me as a gift from the missus. The vintage Technics is good, so dont get me wrong, but the newer enty level 2.1 was just more of the right direction as far as getting to highend sound.

The point is.....what audio hobbyist say, is not always true across the board. You just have to some times trust your gut and then go and see for your self if the opportunity affords itself. So try the DMagic and trust your ears.

[RGA]

Without discussing the particular merits of the Audio Note DAC, I disagree strongly with this advice for a person getting into hifi with a small budget. To wit the extra $1000 spend on a DAC will deliver a very small increment of sound quality compared to the same amount spent on speakers or amplfier.

Furthermore it's unwarranted to assume that a given individual is about to embark on a long trail of upgrades.

This is not directed to you but the thread but partly responds to your point as well.

The OP did not list his speakers or other gear. I am discussing the merits of having a few hundred dollar CD player and then adding a few hundred dollars" DAC and IMO that is a waste of time. I certainly agree that in the lower price realms I would put the money to very nice speakers - but I go by the premise that everyone who goes on an audio forum and didn't buy surround sound receivers and other rubbish from Wal-Mart is probably someone who has "some" interest in audiophile grade equipment. Buying NAD over a Sony Receiver for instance illustrates the person is interested in high fidelity reproduction.

I think most experienced audiophiles have bought and sold and lost money on gear at some point over the years. The point for me is to try and save some people from such mistakes by offering experiential advice. They can choose to follow it or not. I agree with Feaner that a budget system probably won't make the best use out of the $1500 DAC but again it is going to be an upgrade in the now and in the future it will likely not be a weak link depending how far the OP goes.

Source first people should like the idea. The speaker first people will recommend keeping the NAD and upgrading speakers - I would certainly upgrade speakers or something else over buying a cheap non tube DAC or non tube one box or any upsampling CD player.

I think it's poor advice to assume that people who post here will never spend more than $5K on a system. Most people start with cheap stuff and usually regret that they didn;t wait and get the better model. Back when I was buying Arcam was a step up over NAD and Rotel but it was not a good upgrade. It was better but it wasn't "keeper" quality (and it still isn't). Everybody I know who bought Arcam sold it or traded it. It's certainly good for the money but it is a stepping stone that is easy to jump over for something a lot better and would have been better to keep the lower end stuff a little longer and put some money in a Stereo Savings account ( I have one for this purpose) and get something that truly is a significant move.

My initial point was to either make a big major improvement to something like the DAC 2.1 or don't bother because the $1k players just are not going to be a significant move. I would sooner upgrade something else such as speakers - a $1500 speaker will likely be a LOT better than any $500 speaker (although it depends on the speakers)

[Mr Peabody]

You definitely have to start with a good source. The rest of the chain is important but if the information isn't there in the first place you are wasting your time with the rest of the chain. As an example playing a mp3 through a $50k system will be a pretty good sounding mp3 but it won't sound as good as an equivalent CD player for the system. With that being said I also think you can find a significant upgrade from $400.00 without going to $1500.00. Besides that who says a person would even like Audio Note, not every one, hardly any one, hears the way you do RGA.

I also, feel some what vendicated by the fact that many on the board have upgraded their sources and have come to find out what I have been saying about the importance of source is true.

[02audionoob]

I have an Audigy Soundblaster soundcard with toslink and coax outputs. I tend to shy away from USB. I had a USB dac for sometime and found I enjoy my current set up better.



The PS Audio DLIII that blackraven recommended has a USB connection and I would say it's a worthwhile addition. It would be great for a laptop loaded up with FLAC files.


Thank you. Now I'd like to find a sound card with digital coax/toslink for my laptop.

Sounds like a Creative SoundBlaster Live! USB.

[poppachubby]

Ya for laptop USB is just about non-optional. I think you can buy a unit that will convert USB to digital, but why bother?

[02audionoob]

Ya for laptop USB is just about non-optional. I think you can buy a unit that will convert USB to digital, but why bother?

Those vinyl-to-MP3 recordings I've sent you go through one.

[luvtolisten]

Those vinyl-to-MP3 recordings I've sent you go through one.

Hey noob, if you don't mind me asking, which one do you have?

[02audionoob]

Hey noob, if you don't mind me asking, which one do you have?

I have a Creative SoundBlaster Live USB. It has RCA plugs in and out, as well as an optical out, optical in, mic in and headphones out with volume control.

[luvtolisten]

I have a Creative SoundBlaster Live USB. It has RCA plugs in and out, as well as an optical out, optical in, mic in and headphones out with volume control.

Thank you kind sir, I will have to check it out.

[RGA]

You definitely have to start with a good source. The rest of the chain is important but if the information isn't there in the first place you are wasting your time with the rest of the chain. As an example playing a mp3 through a $50k system will be a pretty good sounding mp3 but it won't sound as good as an equivalent CD player for the system. With that being said I also think you can find a significant upgrade from $400.00 without going to $1500.00. Besides that who says a person would even like Audio Note, not every one, hardly any one, hears the way you do RGA.

I also, feel some what vendicated by the fact that many on the board have upgraded their sources and have come to find out what I have been saying about the importance of source is true.

The DAC was an example, the point wasn't the specific DAC because they are designed to work in all tube (SET) systems. I think most reviewers and audiophiles I know who have heard what I have heard agree. I don't believe people hear things wildly differently which is why at CES 2010 I found that most of us were in agreement over what were the best rooms. I might have had a room fourth on my list and someone else had it first and they might have had my first place room second or third but in general the cream rose to the top and we agreed that the top rooms were the top rooms and the weak ones were weak ones. It's not unlike movies where you see certain movies make most top 10 lists because most people see the same things from movies. This is the same for wines, cars what have you.

Audio is more difficult because things can be mismatched and IMO most systems are because people buy name brands and piece of them together without really trying things out as a match. Reviews actually can hurt the consumer in this regard. Brand A won the super test so I will buy brand A whether it's a good match for my speakers is beside the point. The AN DAC may be the equivalent of a top of the line Michelan tire and if you put it on a Ferrari you will see what it can do - if you put it on a Yugo it ain't going to do very much. I have heard the DAC 5 sound better than any digital by a country mile. I have also heard is sound rather weak in a not well matched rig. Best to mediocre based on what it's on.

[poppachubby]

Hey Rich, why do you have a Cambridge CD6?!? Seems like an odd piece for you to own. I would kill to have a Cambridge CD3.

[Mr Peabody]

For the record I like Audio Note DAC's. I still have my 1.1x it was bested by the T+A though. I would love to hear what the AN upstream sounds like. I'm not interested in having to build my gear especially when it starts at $1500.00, just me, I'm lucky to know which end of the solder gun to use.

[RGA]

Mr. Peabody.

What bests what is difficult to determine because it depends on what system things are put in. Audio Note DACs simply are not designed for high damping SS amplifiers and speakers that are designed for those kinds of amplifiers. The fact that it sounds good at all is very nice but the fact is it is mismatched. This is not to say that mismatches can't work - they can but they certainly are not remotely at their best. Bryston sounds truly terrible with my speakers but in a system with PMC speakers I enjoyed the reproduction at the price a fair amount. Depending which system one hears the Bryston in it could be viewed as utter junk or quite wonderful. I read a review of my amp where the guy was running tough to drive Thiels. Audio Note would never match the amp to such a loudspeaker and while the reviewer liked it a lot and even said if he stopped reviewing he would buy it, it still was nowhere near at its best. He got only a hint of what the OTO is capable of and anyone running Audio Note digital with SS is getting maybe 10-20% of the idea of what AN is all about. And people are still impressed with that 20% - imagine what the other 80% can bring.

Poppachubby

The CD 6 is my oldest component and does seem out of place - sonically it is out of place. I bought the unit in the mid 90's and it was basically the source that put Cambridge Audio on the map. It was an overbuilt CD player in the day selling at a lower price than perhaps it should have been. It was an $800 cd player back then with some nice connections balanced, independent power supplies, and a robust Discmagic transport mechanism. The intent was to buy an external DAC. At the time the CD 6 was in the same class as the Rega Planet but the Planet had some reverb in the chain that i could not account for - they were trying to sound tubey or analog which they did but it sounded artificial to me. The CD 6 was more truthful in some ways. The CD 6 has been surpassed by inexpensive devices - most recently the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC 09 that goes for about $300 depending on their sales even less - and it is quite a lot better than the CD 6 dac stage.

I am currently reviewing CD players because it is the weak spot of my system. The one I am currently reviewing will be tough to give up. Though adding a DAC to my CD 6 may be an option. It's about 13 years old and still works as good as day one - which is a testament to the build quality of the CD6. Indeed, when I bought the CD 6 it was a demo unit under hard use for over a year - it had the glass top to show all the parts inside and what they did.

[Mr Peabody]

I used the 1.1x with my CJ gear for a good while until my transport went out. That's when I began actually just looking for another transport but ran into the T+A which I really fell for.

[ygg-it]

Hello People, thank you very much for all your replies.

I've read all, and then all studied (so please continue to post..)

I like very much the kit but 1500 usd is (on my opinion) too much for a kit.
In Italy (custom+transp+tax) you will pay more than 1300 euro....

To tell the truth I'm really happy with NAD 525 (choosen after several hours of listening), so I was just thinking to a "worth" upgrade.

I found this which you have also suggested:

http://cgi.ebay.it/Convertitore-digitale-PSAUDIO-DL3-Digital-Link-III-/360279841362?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Altro_Audio_da_Casa&hash=item53e25a1a52

I didn't find it used, but the price seems ok for a "new" device (!? too low ?)
I think it should be a step better than DACMAGIC and may be it can really upgrade my NAD 525...

[Feanor]

Hello People, thank you very much for all your replies.

I've read all, and then all studied (so please continue to post..)

I like very much the kit but 1500 usd is (on my opinion) too much for a kit.
In Italy (custom+transp+tax) you will pay more than 1300 euro....

To tell the truth I'm really happy with NAD 525 (choosen after several hours of listening), so I was just thinking to a "worth" upgrade.

I found this which you have also suggested:

http://cgi.ebay.it/Convertitore-digitale-PSAUDIO-DL3-Digital-Link-III-/360279841362?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Altro_Audio_da_Casa&hash=item53e25a1a52

I didn't find it used, but the price seems ok for a "new" device (!? too low ?)
I think it should be a step better than DACMAGIC and may be it can really upgrade my NAD 525...
Hi, ygg. The DL III is available in the US, (e.g. from Audio Advisor, see here (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSDL3)), for US$700 so 750€ doesn't seem too low, I would say.

Will it sound better than the NAD 525? That PS has a good reputation but the message you should take from the current thread is "maybe or maybe not". :)

[poppachubby]

Personally I think the Digilink will be an upgrade. The analog output on those units is tremendous, very welll made.

[RGA]

The only way you'll know if it is worth it is to try it.

There are simply far too many variables. The system needs to have enough resolution to make out the possible superior qualities of better front of the chain components. A great speaker can't fix a poor CD player but a poor speaker won't show you what the source is truly capable of giving you.

You have not listed the rest of the system - it may be that the NAD is the best thing in your system.

[frenchmon]

The only way you'll know if it is worth it is to try it.

There are simply far too many variables. The system needs to have enough resolution to make out the possible superior qualities of better front of the chain components. A great speaker can't fix a poor CD player but a poor speaker won't show you what the source is truly capable of giving you.

You have not listed the rest of the system - it may be that the NAD is the best thing in your system.

I agree with you here. On paper and parts the Digilink is an upgrade. But when plugged into a system it may not sound like it. It may be to much for his system and he will either downgrade the DAC or upgrade the other gear. OR it could be just what he needed. But they only way to tell is to get in with your own ears.

[poppachubby]

I agree with you here. On paper and parts the Digilink is an upgrade. But when plugged into a system it may not sound like it. It may be to much for his system and he will either downgrade the DAC or upgrade the other gear. OR it could be just what he needed. But they only way to tell is to get in with your own ears.

Oh the DAC will not be a downgrade, I can assure you. Rich has a point I supppose if the fidelity is not there to interpret the info. As I wrote previously, even the first version of the DL is a nice sounding DAC and an upgrade to many entry level units, particularily NAD.

I have yet to hear a NAD CDP that is engaging enough to pull out my wallet. Infact my Magnavox will mop the floor with certain NAD.

[frenchmon]

Oh the DAC will not be a downgrade, I can assure you. Rich has a point I supppose if the fidelity is not there to interpret the info. As I wrote previously, even the first version of the DL is a nice sounding DAC and an upgrade to many entry level units, particularily NAD.

I have yet to hear a NAD CDP that is engaging enough to pull out my wallet. Infact my Magnavox will mop the floor with certain NAD.

I never said it was a down grade Pops....read it again.

[02audionoob]

Although we all exercise a bit of caution when saying something is undoubtedly superior, and rightfully so, it seems like somehow we could admit that a $1,000 DAC would upgrade a $300 CD player.

[poppachubby]

OK, guess I misread, sorry.

[frenchmon]

Although we all exercise a bit of caution when saying something is undoubtedly superior, and rightfully so, it seems like somehow we could admit that a $1,000 DAC would upgrade a $300 CD player.

Oh I agree.

But as an example...my mono price cables would not let the finer detail of my Musical Fidelity come through, but the Analysis Plus did. And when I plug my Paadigm 7v3 floor standers into my 2 channel system, I can't hear the things in the midrange like I can with my stand mount Canton speakers. If the synergy is not there then the music can become lifeless and boring.

[Mr Peabody]

I loved the sound of NAD's Master Series SACD player. The 545 wasn't bad but when you take into the account lack of detail and comparatively compressed sound stage not the best deal around for $499.00. If NAD could hold to their "house sound" while letting more detail through they'd have a good sounding player. At least for those who like good bass slam and a dark presence.

[ygg-it]

And what about this?

Satch DAC Kit

:frown2:

http://cgi.ebay.it/Satch-DAC-Kit-Easy-Assemble-/290375901772?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439bc0a24c

and this??

http://cgi.ebay.it/Original-Satch-DAC-PCB-RevB-Matching-Power-Transformer-/230405971943?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35a5441fe7

[Mr Peabody]

I personally would trust the PS Audio

[RGA]

And what about this?

Satch DAC Kit

:frown2:

http://cgi.ebay.it/Satch-DAC-Kit-Easy-Assemble-/290375901772?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439bc0a24c

and this??

http://cgi.ebay.it/Original-Satch-DAC-PCB-RevB-Matching-Power-Transformer-/230405971943?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35a5441fe7

You are in Italy so the kit I suggested is out of the question. However, I would recommend you listen to a complete Audio Note system that is not designed like typical systems - a polar shift in approach, design, and results - regardless of whether you can afford it.

High Fidelity Italia Srl
Via Collodi
I-20010 Cornaredo (MI)
ITALY
Alessandro Faccendini
Monica Clerici
Tel: 0039 029 361 1024