New Yorkers paying $11 for pack of cigarettes

[Smokey]

As a smoker, I am glad I don't live in Newyork city. Also as smoker, it pains me that recent price hikes has only been targeted to smoker as a form of descrimination. I mean if state want to tax people's habit heavily, why only target smokers. Tax hikes on beer and alcohol will probably bring in more revenues as there are more drinkers than smokers.

By the CNN Wire:

New York (CNN) -- New York City already had the highest cigarette taxes in the nation, and a new state law that went in to effect Thursday pushed the price of smoking even higher.

The state legislature on Monday approved a bill adding an additional state tax of $1.60 to every pack. The bill, which was signed into law by Gov. David Paterson, raised the state tax to a total of $4.35 per pack.

New York City smokers pay an additional municipal tax of $1.50 per pack, so the new tax increase means that smokers in the city will pay $5.85 per pack in taxes. That drives the average local retail price up to nearly $11 per pack, according to some estimates. Chicago is the runner-up at $3.66 per pack in taxes, according to the organization.

The tax hike is aimed at generating an additional $440 million in 2010-2011 tax revenue to support health care programs.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/07/01/new.york.cigarette.tax/index.html

[Feanor]

As a smoker, I am glad I don't live in Newyork city. Also as smoker, it pains me that recent price hikes has only been targeted to smoker as a form of descrimination. I mean if state want to tax people's habit heavily, why only target smokers. Tax hikes on beer and alcohol will probably bring in more revenues as there are more drinkers than smokers.
...
I see your point, Smokey. Though I don't smoke myself though I do imbibe (with restraint).

Furthermore I think marijuana and probably most of other drugs should be legalized and taxed. In general, consumption, though not distribution, of drugs should be legal with the health consequences treat has such rather than as a criminal problem. It's absurd when you think of it: all the profit goes to criminal pushers while the public pays the hugh, endless, and relatively ineffectual cost of policing; at the same time the health costs remain. Instead, let the gov't make the profits and save the cost of policing.

[ForeverAutumn]

If the tax is going to support health care, then I have no sympathy. It is a known fact that smokers experience more health problems and cost health care systems significantly more than non-smokers. Look at any private health, life, or disability insurance costs as a good example of the additional cost for smokers. In some instances, smokers can pay 50% - 60% more than non-smokers for the same insurance product. This is because the risk of a smoker making a claim is that much higher.

Why should I, as a non-smoker (I quit almost 20 years ago), have to pay the additional cost of your health care through my own taxes? If cigarettes are the cause of the increase to health care then it is the users who should be taxed.

Smoking is a voluntary luxury. If you don't like paying the tax, then quit smoking so that you don't have to.

[ForeverAutumn]

You may find this interesting and it may help you understand why this extra tax to support health care is being charged.

Here’s a timeline about some of the more immediate effects of quitting smoking and how they will affect your body right now.

In 20 minutes your blood pressure will drop back down to normal.
In 8 hours the carbon monoxide (a toxic gas) levels in your blood stream will drop by half, and oxygen levels will return to normal.
In 48 hours your chance of having a heart attack will have decreased. All nicotine will have left your body. Your sense of taste and smell will return to a normal level.
In 72 hours your bronchial tubes will relax, and your energy levels will increase.
In 2 weeks your circulation will increase, and it will continue to improve for the next 10 weeks.
In 3 to 9 months coughing, wheezing, and breathing problems will dissipate as your lung capacity improves by 10%.
In 1 year your risk of having a heart attack will have dropped by half.
In 5 years your risk of having a stroke returns to that of a non-smoker.
In 10 years your risk of lung cancer will have returned to that of a non-smoker.
In 15 years your risk of heart attack will have returned to that of a non-smoker.

[GMichael]

Another quitter here. I stopped over 18 years ago. Save yourself the heart-ache and join us quitters.

[markw]

That last time was in '92 and that one worked. I tried many things, the patch, Smokenders, Various other groups and hypnosis. I did hypnosis fourtimes.

The first lasted about six montha and I figured I had it licked ansd I could have "just one". Yeah, right.

The second time lsted about a month or so. My father dying might have had something to do with that one, though.

The third time didn't last a month but, to tellt he truth, I really wasn't really into quitting at that time. I just thought it was the right thing to do.

The last time, though, ws a few months later and I was psychologically ready to give it up and it finally worked. I just had to remember that I can't have "just one".

If I could do it after 25 years, so can you.

[dakatabg]

I was smoking for around 5 years. On the 4th year I started having problems with my lungs like pain and hard time to breath. On the 5th year I decided to stop. It wasn't as hard as I thought but you suffer a little. This empty feeling in your chest bothers you a lot especially after a dinner ( o man ) but you can live without it. Like markw said, forget about thinking there will be another one. Well it's been already 2 years and a half and I haven't had a single one. I feel much better and no more pain and breathing problems.

Sometimes when I have a hard day or being nervous you feel like having one or like something is missing but no. In my opinion it as how you set it up in your mind. If you truly wanna stop you will do it.

Do the calculation to see how much you pay a month and a year. It is like you are paying off a car.


Something funny - few of my buddies got laid off and they didn't have money to buy cigs so they quitted without even knowing it. ha ha hopefully we don't get to this situation!

So yeah I am proud of myself and when I smell cigarets, ill I don't like it.

[Worf101]

As a New York State Resident this tax would apply to me. However since I don't smoke cigarettes it does not. I smoke only cigars now and while the new law does apply to all tobacco I can still get great cigars online and tax free.

Tobacco got my Daddy but at age 91.
Tobacco got my brother at age 44.

Dad went quick about 2 month after being diagnosed with the big L.C. But at age 91 he'd had a good run. Plus he'd stopped smoking in his 70's.

My Brother Charles smoked as a teen and cancer got him early. He was quite the drain on health services as he lingered. However he put much money into the system over the years and was entiteld to at least SOME care, he'd paid for it.

I understand about the societal costs of self abuse. Smokers, like most Americans, want it both ways. They want the "right" to kill themselves as they see fit.. Yet they want society to care for them if they fall ill. "Leave me alone to live my life as I see fit, but save me if I start to drown." I never started cigs, if I had, I might feel differently.

Worf.

[bobsticks]

As a New York State Resident this tax would apply to me. However since I don't smoke cigarettes it does not. I smoke only cigars now and while the new law does apply to all tobacco I can still get great cigars online and tax free.

Tobacco got my Daddy but at age 91.
Tobacco got my brother at age 44.

Dad went quick about 2 month after being diagnosed with the big L.C. But at age 91 he'd had a good run. Plus he'd stopped smoking in his 70's.

My Brother Charles smoked as a teen and cancer got him early. He was quite the drain on health services as he lingered. However he put much money into the system over the years and was entiteld to at least SOME care, he'd paid for it.

I understand about the societal costs of self abuse. Smokers, like most Americans, want it both ways. They want the "right" to kill themselves as they see fit.. Yet they want society to care for them if they fall ill. "Leave me alone to live my life as I see fit, but save me if I start to drown." I never started cigs, if I had, I might feel differently.

Worf.

Great post Worfster. I agree wholeheartedly with Feanor that the time has come to revisit our concept of the "War on Drugs". I also agree with Autumn that the taxes must be applied to healthcare and healthcare only.

All these things make sense to me.

However if we, as a society, collectively decide to go down the body-Nazi road it must be considered that obesity and its resultant conditions generate far greater medical costs than tobacco...and certainly alcohol and elicit drugs. Where's the sin tax on Twinkies?

[GMichael]

Great post Worfster. I agree wholeheartedly with Feanor that the time has come to revisit our concept of the "War on Drugs". I also agree with Autumn that the taxes must be applied to healthcare and healthcare only.

All these things make sense to me.

However if we, as a society, collectively decide to go down the body-Nazi road it must be considered that obesity and its resultant conditions generate far greater medical costs than tobacco...and certainly alcohol and elicit drugs. Where's the sin tax on Twinkies?

In the works. Last I heard they are planning a tax on fast food.

[dean_martin]

Are the tobacco growers, cigarette manufacturers, distributors, etc. contributing to or funding these specific NY health care programs or is it just the NY consumers?

Sure, smoking is voluntary for maybe that first month, but when you started as I did at 15 (I quit about 12 years ago) and you have an addictive personality a/k/a obsessive compulsive (of course this doesn't apply to me) there's enough blame to go around. I think the active ingredients in tobacco PRODUCTS (I'll call it nicotine because that's what we've been told it is) affects different people in different ways. I know some long-time smokers who broke out in hives while trying to quit. I became highly irritable and unable to concentrate. I've heard others claim that they quit cold-turkey and that it was no problem.

Smokers are treated like second class citizens. Ever seen the little group huddled together outside the office building in sub-freezing weather? They can't use the breakroom to smoke. Even in the few remaining places where it's legal to smoke, the looks non-smokers give smokers when they light up would be hilarious if they weren't filled with so much venom. I used to prefer the smoking section to the non-smoking section in restaurants simply because the smokers seemed to be enjoying themselves more. The non-smoking section was usually a morgue in comparison.

Oh well, somebody has to stand up for the Smokeys in this country. They're a dyin' breed.

[ForeverAutumn]

We pay tax on "snack food" here. Basic groceries such as fruit and veggies, dairy, meat, and canned goods are tax free. Snack foods like chips and pop have a 13% (in Ontario, varies by province) tax.

Also, prepared meals (fast foods, restaurants) are taxed.

[GMichael]

Oh well, somebody has to stand up for the Smokeys in this country. They're a dyin' breed.

Ouch... :19:

[dean_martin]

Ouch... :19:
That may be right, but maybe it's not what I intended? I dunno.

[bobsticks]

... I used to prefer the smoking section to the non-smoking section in restaurants simply because the smokers seemed to be enjoying themselves more. The non-smoking section was usually a morgue in comparison...

I've found this to be true as well...

[3LB]

I never smoked cigs. I do smoke the occassional cigar, but never developed habit. Cigs are engineered to be habitual. Some of the oldest money in this country is from the tobacco industry, and before the big oil companies took over, the tobacco industry dictated policy, elected presidents and cultivated public opinion, as it was tobacco money that bought and developed the newspaper media. So is it any wonder how tobacco still isn't treated like any other dangerous substance? Is it any wonder why some tobacco companies own snack food brands? Our government wouldn't allow cigarettes to be consumed legally unless they wanted us to die in our 50s.

I lost my father to heart disease. He was a chronic smoker. As a truck driver, he could smoke as much as two packs a day. He died an exhausted, sickly old man - he was 53.

Cigarette smoking is no different than suicide - the results are the same and while your passing will be mourned, your choice will be resented.

[dean_martin]

I lost my father to heart disease. He was a chronic smoker. As a truck driver, he could smoke as much as two packs a day. He died an exhausted, sickly old man - he was 53.



Sorry 'bout your dad, 3LB. My dad smoked for many years. He quit when I was in my early teens. I remember him breaking out in rashes around his neck and waist while he was trying to quit. I decided to quit after 15 years because I felt worn out all the time. It wasn't easy. I think there's some hereditary compulsive gene in my family. I'm thankful I've never tried crack or heroin or I'd be strung out or dead.

[ForeverAutumn]

while your passing will be mourned, your choice will be resented.

You know, that's exactly the reason I chose to quit. I had seen people who had loved ones die from cancer and I decided that I never wanted to be responsible for putting the people I loved through that pain.

Sorry about your Dad 3LB. I also lost my Dad to heart disease when he was only 62. He smoked a pipe until his first heart attack at age 58. He quit smoking but didn't make any other changes for his health. I quit smoking shortly after him. My quitting, led to my brother and sister-in-law quitting too. I guess that was the one good thing that came out of it.

[luvtolisten]

As a resident of NYS, I against the cigarette tax. All this is , is a "popular" tax. There is little sympathy for the smoker. So most people say "good!" tax them! But let's say everyone quit smoking, do you think NYS would let that little tax bonanza disappear? No they would just get it someplace else. NYS is in big trouble financially. In debt big time.
They are raising taxes AND cutting services. And that includes Health Care.

[Smokey]

Something funny - few of my buddies got laid off and they didn't have money to buy cigs so they quitted without even knowing it.

That made my whole day http://www.ethanwiner.com/Smileys/ROFLMAO.gif

Thanks for all replies and good advice. I understand where you coming from when indicating that smokers are a big burden on health care so they should pay up. Worf summed up nicely by saying "They want the right to kill themselves as they see fit.. Yet they want society to care for them if they fall ill. "Leave me alone to live my life as I see fit, but save me if I start to drown.""

That is fair enough in principals, and on the same note it is also fair to say that smokers are the not only one clogging up the health care. As bobsticks pointed out, if we collectively decide to go down the body-Nazi road it must be considered that obesity and its resultant conditions generate far greater medical costs than tobacco.

One trip down grocery store and one see that all foods with high sugar (soda), fat and processed food are the cheapest, and going by price most bought. Not only taxing these item that are major source of obesity and cancer will bring in more revenues, it also reduce population intake because of higher price.

And dean martin, I did not forget your remark regarding smokers :cryin:

[Feanor]

I've found this to be true as well...
Smoking sections: the problem in restaurants and other places, is that they stink.

And unfortunately that STINK usually drifts into the non-smoking sections. Many years ago I commuted 3.5 hours a day by Greyhound bus. The smoking section was the back half of the bus; I sat as close to the front as possible. Nevertheless I could smell the smoke from a single cigarette with 30 seconds of the passenger lighting up.

Thank the powers that be that smoking is now banned in restaurants, buses, planes, and all interior public places, in our juristiction. Soon I hope it will be banned in exterior public places too, e.g. public streets, parks, etc. People should be permitted to smoke on their own property only if not affecting neighbours and provided they have no children.

[Feanor]

I never smoked cigs. I do smoke the occassional cigar, but never developed habit. Cigs are engineered to be habitual. Some of the oldest money in this country is from the tobacco industry, and before the big oil companies took over, the tobacco industry dictated policy, elected presidents and cultivated public opinion, as it was tobacco money that bought and developed the newspaper media. So is it any wonder how tobacco still isn't treated like any other dangerous substance? Is it any wonder why some tobacco companies own snack food brands? Our government wouldn't allow cigarettes to be consumed legally unless they wanted us to die in our 50s.

...
Hah! Ain't it the truth, 3LB. And haven't I said big corporations will tell any lie to increase their profits? Haven't I been saying that their money determines what government does in countries like yours and mine?

Legalize street drugs and these big operations would take over distribution from the drug lords in a wink, (or put them on the boards of directors).

[bobsticks]

Hah!
Legalize street drugs and these big operations would take over distribution from the drug lords in a wink, (or put them on the boards of directors).

I agree with the sentiment but the mechanism is the problem. How does one convince drug lords that it's in their best interest to cut profits and operate within the system? This especially rings true when one considers the resultant tax burden on them in their CoO upon becoming a "legitimate business operation".

But let's not mince words here, it should happen but it never will. First the proceeds from the illegal drug business have been funneled into legitimate businesses for so long that there is an inexorable financial Gordian Knot.

More importantly, do you think the entrenched power structure is going to legitimize any endeavor that would lend credence or empower brown people?

[Feanor]

...

More importantly, do you think the entrenched power structure is going to legitimize any endeavor that would lend credence or empower brown people?
"Brown people" (of one shade or another) will soon be a majority of the population in the US ... but then when did being the majority necessarily lead to impowerment of a segment of the pop? Viz. working people, (a.k.a. the middle class), are a majority.