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dkilburn
04-04-2004, 04:16 PM
I just purchased a new pair of Paradigm Monitor 7's. I now have them set up and have noticed that they are much brighter, noticably so, then when I auditioned them. Is there something in setting these up that I may have overlooked or something in the room dynamics that I should consider changing? The room they are in is pretty small (11' X 11'). Please help.

stratman672001
04-04-2004, 05:08 PM
Paradigms are usually a little bright fresh out of the box. But once they've had break in time the treble settles in nicely. Plus listening rooms usually have sonic tweaks so that you are hearing them in an optimum setting.
Is the room reverberant? That can also make a big diff in sound. You might want to look into some room treatments (Diffusor panels and the like). What gauge cable are you using? Smaller gauges (less than 16) can restrict bass.
The most you can really do at this time though is just let them break in... About 100 hrs should do... Hope that helps

RGA
04-04-2004, 06:58 PM
This has always been an issue to me with Paradigm speakers and most speakers using meta tweeters. You'll either get used to them (some call it break in but the driver property change is so minute that it is inaudible after about 10 hours). You can however do things to reduce brightness. Having a carpeted room is a first step or use a big rug if you're on hardwood. Using heavy drapes and or a a leather couch - various firnishings to deaden sound.

I personally find none of that stuff helps because the tweeters beam and that's what you hear before they start bouncing off of walls...but it can help.

Another thing to try is to toe the speakers in so that the tweeters cross at a distance about 1-3 feet in front of you. Speakers not designed for tht however will have the soundstage compress. If you're not happy in a week take em back and get something else...don't live with something you're not happy with...lots of other speakers out there.

cam
04-04-2004, 07:05 PM
I just purchased a new pair of Paradigm Monitor 7's. I now have them set up and have noticed that they are much brighter, noticably so, then when I auditioned them. Is there something in setting these up that I may have overlooked or something in the room dynamics that I should consider changing? The room they are in is pretty small (11' X 11'). Please help.
Yes they do need a break-in period. I have the same speakers and as they were breaking in I personally didn't notice the highs settling in but what I did notice was the lows filling out. Only then did my speakers sound warm. Also the amp you use could be the difference, I went from a technics which to me made my ears bleed to a denon which soothed things out. People always slag paradigm titanium tweeters bla bla bla, but I am into the incredible detail that they produce. Just let those woofers break-in and you will see that you have warm tight bass with awesome detailed highs.

bturk667
04-05-2004, 12:29 PM
One question: When you auditioned them did you do so in your room, or was it at the dealer?

dkilburn
04-05-2004, 12:47 PM
I auditioned them at the dealer. I also only listened to one cd, which although it sounded great, did not cross a wide musical spectrum.

kexodusc
04-05-2004, 12:48 PM
I have a set of very nice Vifa driver based speakers in my main stereo room, and that's one distinct difference I can tell between soft dome tweeters and metal tweeters. For some music, soft dome just sounds better. I'd say some female voices and stringed instruments, maybe winds too. When it comes to rock though, I generally prefer the metal tweeters. More crunch or something, I don't know. At loud volumes some soft domes really don't do justice.
Sarah Brightman's Eden CD is a good test for the Monitors, I've found. I compared them to Energy's Connoisseur (which I'm a big fan of) several months ago, and the Monitors really display some clear high frequency detail. Some people don't like this. It's probably a preference.

Woochifer
04-05-2004, 01:58 PM
First off an 11x11 room is small, and potentially small enough for a Paradigm Monitor 7 to overpower. Also, consider how damped your room acoustics are. If you got nothing but reflective solid surfaces everywhere then EVERY speaker that you bring into the room will sound brighter than in the dealer's demo room (which for high end stores at least, are usually treated so that they sound less lively). An overly lively room causes timing distortions that make a speaker sound brighter and harsher than it would in a less echoey room. The easiest way to check for potential problems is to stand in the middle of the room and clap your hands together. If you hear a "slap echo" then your room is the culprit.

Since your problems are in the highs, things like different toe-in angles, bringing in a cushier sofa, hanging tapestries or rugs on the wall, putting in a thicker area rug, putting acoustic panels at the reflection points, etc. should help lessen the reflections in the room. Low frequencies problems are trickier to tame.

I believe in break in only to a point. Out of the box, speakers can indeed sound different, but if you've already been doing several hours of listening, then the speakers are broken in. A lot of the "break in" is actually your ears getting attuned to the speakers.

kexodusc
04-05-2004, 04:03 PM
Hey Wooch, how does one go about identifying the reflection points in a room? Trial and error? Any time honored traditional methods?

bturk667
04-05-2004, 05:16 PM
Well there in lies the problem, doesn't it? You should always listen to speakers, hell any component for that matter, in your own listening room and with your own equipment. Otherwise how will you know if you really like it or not.

My advice, bring the Paradigms back, well at least try to. Then go out and do it the right way. I bet you will be much happier!

PS. Take your time and bring a few more CDs; a diverse collection. Never use any others. Always bring the same ones; you need a point of reference!

bturk667
04-05-2004, 05:19 PM
Replace your speakers with light bulbs. Then place mylar on the wall or use a mirror, look for the position of the reflection of the light bulb. Light, sound, same reflective points.

F1
04-05-2004, 05:23 PM
Hey Wooch, how does one go about identifying the reflection points in a room? Trial and error? Any time honored traditional methods?

Basically if you have two large parrallel blank surfaces (no furniture in between) like hard floor and hard ceiling you tend to have echoe. You need to to cover with some sound absorbant or furniture to deflect the sound.

Woochifer
04-05-2004, 06:47 PM
Hey Wooch, how does one go about identifying the reflection points in a room? Trial and error? Any time honored traditional methods?

Simplest way is to just open up the grilles and take a seat at your listening position. Have somebody go around the room, floor, and walls with a mirror. Wherever you can see the tweeters in the mirror from your listening position is a primary reflection point for where you're sitting. If that reflective spot is a hard smooth surface, then it will bounce the sound right back towards you and those are the spots where you want to either absorb or diffuse the sound waves.

I know that if the reflected sound and direct sound are not far enough apart from one another, you will basically perceive them as coming from a single source, and that time delay either from the front wall, floor, sidewalls, or ceiling, in a typical room is not enough for your brain to perceive it as a different sound but it is enough of a time difference to smear the sound. Putting a piece of acoustic foam or a fiberglas panel at that spot will help to reduce the amount of reflected sound that gets bounced towards the listening position.

nightflier
04-06-2004, 12:33 PM
Hey Wooch, how does one go about identifying the reflection points in a room? Trial and error? Any time honored traditional methods?

Never mind, it was already answered....

Hang, or ask a friend to hold up a mirror by the wall. If you can see the speaker from your usual sitting position, that a point on the wall is a reflection point. You can use the same technique with the floor and ceiling, although that might be overkill.