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MaxPay22
05-12-2010, 10:54 AM
I am a coach at the local high school and we are looking to install a new sound system. We have recently blown through 3 sets of speakers and possibly two receivers. So needless to say before we spend anymore money were going to try and locate the best stuff that we know will work.

I am looking for recommendations for speakers, receivers, mixers, amps or anything else that we might need. I have personally stopped trying to guess at what might work and am self admittingly not very tech savvy.

We have a varying budget probably around 500 bucks to get good quality/loud sound for a lot of years.

Thanks

woofersus
05-12-2010, 12:48 PM
How big an area are you looking to cover? The whole field? With something to shout through or to use for quality music playback? $500 isn't going to get you very far I'm afraid. Honestly I can't think of much of anything that sounds halfway decent for that price off the top of my head. If you're just looking to play music in the dugout maybe it can happen.

blackraven
05-12-2010, 01:14 PM
How many speaker's do you need and will it be for a PA system or just music? Will the speakers be outside all the time? Also, how long of a run from the amp to the speakers and what gauge wire are you using?

It sounds like your amps have been under powered and probably clipping, damaging both the amp and speakers.

You will need a sturdy high current amp and 10guage speaker wire if the distance to the speakers is more than 20feet. You will also need speakers that have a high wattage ratiing and good sensitivity to play loud.

Here's a power amp that will last but you will need a preamp along with it-

http://www.zzounds.com/item--CWNXLS802

With a $500 budget for amp and receiver, here's a receiver that will work if not abused. Its high current and decent power for 2 speakers.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hk+3490&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=12414092109633830827&ei=bhzrS-DeAoT48Ab_48XiDg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ8wIwAg#ps-sellers.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
05-12-2010, 01:32 PM
I am a coach at the local high school and we are looking to install a new sound system. We have recently blown through 3 sets of speakers and possibly two receivers. So needless to say before we spend anymore money were going to try and locate the best stuff that we know will work.

Sounds like you are seriously underpowering the system and pushing the receivers too hard trying to fill the field with sound. Receivers do not make very good outdoor public address amplifiers. The Ohms and impedance are not a match for outdoor PA speakers.


I am looking for recommendations for speakers, receivers, mixers, amps or anything else that we might need. I have personally stopped trying to guess at what might work and am self admittingly not very tech savvy.

We have a varying budget probably around 500 bucks to get good quality/loud sound for a lot of years.

Thanks

There is no way to accomplish any of this with $500, no way, no how. It sounds to me like there is not enough dedication of funds to this project which is why it is not working very well. I believe it is better to spend once for quality, instead of a dozen to cut corners. This is especially true when talking about project designed to last a few years.

Designing a PA system for a baseball field requires one to know the following things.

How big are the stands?
Are the stands covered?
Is is stadium like, or just an open type field?
Will it be used for music or speech only? Or both?
What places are do you have to mount the speaker for optimum coverage?
Do you want this to be a temporary system that must be setup every game, or a permanent installation?


Also you will need wiring that is designed to withstand hot, cold, sun, rain if it is exposed. This alone will eat quickly into $500, but you need it as most indoor wiring is not designed to be exposed to outdoor weather.

blackraven
05-12-2010, 01:52 PM
If you could increase your budget to about $800 to $1000 you could go with that Crown amp that i posted earlier, all you would need would be an inexpensive preamp and some decent PA speakers.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAZPRE2

Another option would be to buy this HK 3390 receiver and use the preamp outs to control this other crown amp that i just found for a discount for $199

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hk+3390&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8460421031248634155&ei=kyLrS7vfFYOC8gbB79XkDg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDEQ8wIwAg#ps-sellers

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-CRO-XLS202-LIST?SRC=D0301DT0HAMS0000&utm_source=shopping&utm_medium=feed&

Luvin Da Blues
05-12-2010, 02:52 PM
Are you guys freakin serious? It's a ball diamond not a concert hall.

Pick up a used 100 to 500watt 70 volt PA amp with built in mixer, a mic and maybe a source (ie; a cd player) and a bunch of 70 volt PA speakers/horns. Place the speakers where they do the best good now and add to them later as the funds allow. You will have to run 18/2 twisted wiring but tap this line for each speaker on the way.

TOA always made good budget PA gear but there are lots to choose from.

blackraven
05-12-2010, 05:50 PM
That crown amp is a PA amp! The first one is 500wpc at 8ohms and 1000wpc at 4ohms.

Here are some cheap preamps-

http://www.nextag.com/PA-7000-Preamplifier-656487859/prices-html

http://www.nextag.com/Audiosource-EQ-200-Stereo-3006239/prices-html

I would also look at audiosource preamps

woofersus
05-12-2010, 07:31 PM
Are you guys freakin serious? It's a ball diamond not a concert hall.

Pick up a used 100 to 500watt 70 volt PA amp with built in mixer, a mic and maybe a source (ie; a cd player) and a bunch of 70 volt PA speakers/horns. Place the speakers where they do the best good now and add to them later as the funds allow. You will have to run 18/2 twisted wiring but tap this line for each speaker on the way.

TOA always made good budget PA gear but there are lots to choose from.

It's not a concert hall but it is an outdoor application, which tends to require a lot more than people think. What's loud in your living room is a different story when you're 100ft away.

A 70V system is a feasible option here if they're looking to cover a large area with announcements and such. If they can find a great deal on something used maybe it can work, but even with this kind of system they'll be scraping the bottom of the barrel for $500. For example this (http://www.allprosound.com/catalog/productdetails%7Efprodid%7E9050%7Eitem%7ETOA-BG-1060.htm)TOA 60w 5-channel 70V amp runs $360 alone. Then you've got to find some decent speakers for $140. (that are sensitive enough to play loud on 60w without clipping) I found a pair of Pyle horns on ebay for $100 but they'll sound like crap and have questionable reliability at best. Here's (http://www.allprosound.com/catalog/productdetails%7Efprodid%7E3380%7Eitem%7EAPS-Brand-SYSTEM-75.htm) a really basic system that will do ok for announcements and such, but not music for $600 - and it's only 2 speakers so coverage will be limited.

If they want reasonably decent sounding music playback, then 70V isn't the best route, and the outdoor speakers capable of that kind of application get significantly more expensive.

woofersus
05-12-2010, 07:38 PM
That crown amp is a PA amp! The first one is 500wpc at 8ohms and 1000wpc at 4ohms.

Here are some cheap preamps-

http://www.nextag.com/PA-7000-Preamplifier-656487859/prices-html

http://www.nextag.com/Audiosource-EQ-200-Stereo-3006239/prices-html

I would also look at audiosource preamps

I'd assume they'll need a mic pre, so a home stereo preamp won't be the best thing. There are a number of compact mixers out there, but the smallest, cheapest ones I can think of are still around $250 new. If they're doing a standard 2-channel PA system the cheapest way will probably be a powered mixer, but those get up into the $400-$600 range pretty quickly for one that isn't total junk. Might be able to find one of the ubiquitous Yamaha EMX series used for a good price.

MaxPay22
05-13-2010, 05:48 AM
Thanks for all the responses. I am well aware that 500 dollars isn't a whole lot when we're dealing with quality. I wanted moreso to convey that we don't have a unlimited budget. Just wanted to know what you guys thought was the best bang for our buck as well as only purchasing things that were absolutely critical to providing us with our best option.

We want to be able to play music and have vocals. But honestly music is probably more important. We only have annoucers once or twice a season but music daily. We also have some old school horns that still work on with out mic.

I am not educated at all in this sort of thng and am possibly just looking for somebody to explain what type of hardware we need.

We are only really looking right now to put two speakers on top of the pressbox. If we can get good coverage (200 feet) thats really all we need. We have a nice field with decent stands but you must remember its still the size of an average high school field.

Thanks for the help.

markw
05-13-2010, 06:28 AM
We are only really looking right now to put two speakers on top of the pressbox. If we can get good coverage (200 feet) thats really all we need. We have a nice field with decent stands but you must remember its still the size of an average high school field.While you might think it's a fairly simple task, the reality is that you're gonna need some fairly husky speakers and a considerable amount of power to drive them. This doesn't even take into account any mixing boards you might want.

You're best bet might be to solicit some opinions from local sound reinforcement rental companies in the area to see what they would recommend. That might give you some idea of what you're up against.

poppachubby
05-13-2010, 06:46 AM
While you might think it's a fairly simple task, the reality is that you're gonna need some fairly husky speakers and a considerable amount of power to drive them. This doesn't even take into account any mixing boards you might want.

You're best bet might be to solicit some opinions from local sound reinforcement rental companies in the area to see what they would recommend. That might give you some idea of what you're up against.

I agree, I think this is not necessarily the wrong venue for advice, but you might be better served elsewhere.

As a musician I have experience with filling a large space with sound. Your best bet will be to consult with a local music shop, OR try any local company that deals with audio logistics for events, concerts, festivals, etc.

These guys may have a sales angle, but I think a good and reputable business will give you the info you need, understanding your budget constraints. The big difference with going to a local pro is that they can view the area in question, which we can only try to imagine.

On another note, I think some of the suggestions so far have been pretty crafty considering the budget. Great job guys!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
05-13-2010, 07:30 AM
Thanks for all the responses. I am well aware that 500 dollars isn't a whole lot when we're dealing with quality. I wanted moreso to convey that we don't have a unlimited budget. Just wanted to know what you guys thought was the best bang for our buck as well as only purchasing things that were absolutely critical to providing us with our best option.

We want to be able to play music and have vocals. But honestly music is probably more important. We only have annoucers once or twice a season but music daily. We also have some old school horns that still work on with out mic.

I am not educated at all in this sort of thng and am possibly just looking for somebody to explain what type of hardware we need.

We are only really looking right now to put two speakers on top of the pressbox. If we can get good coverage (200 feet) thats really all we need. We have a nice field with decent stands but you must remember its still the size of an average high school field.

Thanks for the help.

So this is for music only application, and the occasional announcer. Okay that is a start.

No matter, $500 isn't going to cut it.

Questions that still need to be answered in order to get you started.

Is this going to be a permanent system? If it is, you are going to need speakers that are weatherproof, or create a weather proof housing over some weather proof speakers. You are going to need to know this because a permanent system, and a temporary system(that you tear down and put away after every game) will require different hardware, and wiring options.

You are going to definitely need more than two, at the minimum four at least(probably more). You can opt for a center field cluster on a mounting platform, or you can use two speakers per stand with them faced at 45 degree angles for optimum coverage. A center field cluster will require more power, but the benefit is entire field and stands coverage. If the pressbox is centrally located behind the plate, that is a good place for speakers unless there is an overhang above the stands.

Do you want powered speakers(which simplify things)?

You are going to need a mixer, a microphone(for those rare announcing occasions),an amp(for non powered speaker options), a two way speaker system, and perhaps a subwoofer as well(you may only need one of these), and a CD or media player. You will also need enough wire to make a long or short run based on the distance from the mixer(or amp with non powered speakers) to the speakers.

I have done several baseball field installs. One was just a portable system that was installed before each game, and torn down and put away after each game.

The other systems were permanent system one for a little league parks, and for a college baseball stadiums.

Before you buy a single item, you need to ask yourself the basic questions I have stated in both of my posts. This will keep you from making the same mistakes that have been made in the past.

Putting together a PA system for a baseball field is completely different than putting together a system for home audio. Home audio components are terrible for PA situation, and PA speakers are terrible for home applications.

MaxPay22
05-24-2010, 06:00 AM
Well after all the consideration, we were able to pick up Two Mackie SRM450v2 loudspeakers and a small mixer for about 700 bucks. The place is so loud you can't even talk to the person next to you. It's not a permenant outdoor set up but simple enough to put up and tear down where it was very cost efficient and awesome.

Thanks for your help

woofersus
05-24-2010, 04:46 PM
I've always liked the SRM450's. Good choice as far as a portable powered speaker goes.