SACD Considerations

[poppachubby]

Hey gang. Once I upgrade my turntable/speakers, I will turn my attention to digital. My main system will become all analog, and I will move the digital to the H/T room. That said I am starting to research SACD/High Rez capable players.

Firstly I would like to know which players you guys are using, and which players you've had in the past. Please include some thoughts on each, especially price/performance value.

Of course, bigger is better and I have no budget set as of yet, but which players rule their respective price points? Can the "cheaper" players roll with the big boys, or is the gap really big?

Looking forward to your info. Keep in mind I'm just gathering info here for research. I won't have a budget for this for at least a year or two. By then SACD will probably be obsolete and it will be SDACD. That's Super Duper Audio CD BTW...

I was offered a Pioneer DV-578 for a decent price, but I declined. I want to jump in with both feet. Aside from the SACD player, I will be considering an upgrade to my trusty Sony AV receiver as well. I'm thinking Denon since it's served my father in law so well. I just hate Denon's overly complicated panels.

Anyhow, thanks all...

[Feanor]

Hey gang. Once I upgrade my turntable/speakers, I will turn my attention to digital. My main system will become all analog, and I will move the digital to the H/T room. That said I am starting to research SACD/High Rez capable players.

Firstly I would like to know which players you guys are using, and which players you've had in the past. Please include some thoughts on each, especially price/performance value.

Of course, bigger is better and I have no budget set as of yet, but which players rule their respective price points? Can the "cheaper" players roll with the big boys, or is the gap really big?

Looking forward to your info. Keep in mind I'm just gathering info here for research. I won't have a budget for this for at least a year or two. By then SACD will probably be obsolete and it will be SDACD. That's Super Duper Audio CD BTW...

I was offered a Pioneer DV-578 for a decent price, but I declined. I want to jump in with both feet. Aside from the SACD player, I will be considering an upgrade to my trusty Sony AV receiver as well. I'm thinking Denon since it's served my father in law so well. I just hate Denon's overly complicated panels.

Anyhow, thanks all...
Well, I'm confused about your objectives here, PC. Why do you want SACD?

Your "main" system, by which I construe you mean your best sounding system, is to be all-analog, so ... presumably you aren't looking to SACD primarily for purer sound. You're going to put the SACD in you HTsystem; does this mean you want this technology for multi-channel? (MC is the best justification for SACD, IMO.) Then again, I have the impression that your musical preference doesn't tend to Classical which is where most of the SACD action is.

On top of this you admit that my the time you can afford a quality SACD player, the technogy might be dead anyway. So I wonder what you expect from SACD. As for a succesor to SACD, Blu-Ray has the potential for that, but as yet there us much less music on Blu-ray than even SACD.

[emaidel]

A little over two years ago, I bought the Marantz SA-8001 SACD player, which, at the time, had received a Stereophile "Class-A Recommendation." That was quite something for a player that cost "only" $900. It remains one of the finest pieces of equipment I've ever purchased: it not only introduced me to SACD (2-channel, not multi-channel), but does a splendid job on "redbook" CD's too. Placing it on a combination of Vibrapods and Vibracones, as well as using a quality interconnect made huge improvements too.

The 8001 was replaced by the 8003 for an additional $100, and while it didn't receive a "Class-A Recommendation," it probably didn't only because Stereophile didn't report on it. From what I've read elsewhere, the 8003 is every bit as good - or perhaps better - than the 8001. I wouldn't be surprised if an SA-8004 were in the works.

I find the sound of SACD's noticeable better than that of CD's, and when comparing the two layers on hyrbrid discs, the SACD layer always outperforms the CD layer; however, the difference is far from night and day. Additionally, some Telarc SACD's, at least to my ears, sound noticeably worse than the same material on older redbook CD's. This is not a fault of the medium, but rather, the choice of microphones used, especially the Sennheiser MKH-800, which provides a lush, full sound, but one completely lacking in upper-end detail.

Telarc SACD's are now a part of history, as Concord Music gave walking papers to almost all former Telarc personnel last January, but some of the earlier issues (those done without the MKH-800 mike) sound pretty good (Donald Runnicles' "Carmina Burana," and Robert Spano's "A Sea Symphony are two good examples), and 2-channel remasters of older Telarc Soundstream masters are outstanding.

The SACD format, while hardly thriving, is far from dead. There are over 6,000 titles available, but if you're not a classical music fan (which I am), you'd be better off looking elsewhere. Two fairly recent Mobile Fidelity SACD remasters of Doobie Brothers albums are flat out fabulous, but finding that kind of material on SACD is extremely difficult.

[bobsticks]

Additionally, some Telarc SACD's, at least to my ears, sound noticeably worse than the same material on older redbook CD's. This is not a fault of the medium, but rather, the choice of microphones used, especially the Sennheiser MKH-800, which provides a lush, full sound, but one completely lacking in upper-end detail.

Telarc SACD's are now a part of history, as Concord Music gave walking papers to almost all former Telarc personnel last January, but some of the earlier issues (those done without the MKH-800 mike) sound pretty good (Donald Runnicles' "Carmina Burana," and Robert Spano's "A Sea Symphony are two good examples), and 2-channel remasters of older Telarc Soundstream masters are outstanding...

I wonder if that's why Parvi's Symphony Fantastique sounds so horrible...?

I agree with the gents, Chubbs, that mebbe you wanna ask some questions of yourself before jumping in with both feet. As stated there is some "modern fare", most notably Elton John, The Doobies, Toto, and Steely Dan, but really classical and jazz rule the roost.

I test drove the Krell SACD Standard a few years back and it was a great unit though not particularly able to find synergy within my system... I suspect that you might find it a tad clinical based on your stated preferences. If you do decide that SACD is a worthy next step I think the recommendation of the Marantz is a good one.

[rakeford]

I just bought a Yamaha DVD-S2700. It plays SACD, DVD-Audio, and Redbook CD. I chose this because, it specs well, has great reviews on the forums, is reasonablely priced ($400-$500 street, $1000 MSRP), and matches my new reciever (Yamaha RX-797). I currently use only 2CH audio.

I bought 4 SACD and 1 DVD-Audio. They all sound great through my Klipsch RF-7 and my Senn. HD650. I am quite pleased with my purchase.

The Yamaha DVD-S2700 is an upgrade from my Sharp DX-650 (still sounding good) and my BSR MCD8050 CD changer (which now skips and misbehaves). I have not done a comparsion sound check between these and the Yamaha DVD-S2700.

At $80 street, the Yamaha DVD-S1800 may be a better value. But the extra $$$ was not an issue with my wallet.

I'm sure someone will chime-in the the Oppo's now.

[poppachubby]

Thanks for the opinions thus far. I was wowed recently by an SACD player so i would like to check it out. Lack of titles will of course drive me away. I'm still interested in any other opnions out there.

Yes Feanor, my analog would be reference. From that point I would like to upgrade mt HT and figured I would include a decent player for 2ch or MC.

[blackraven]

Here's a Denon 1940 CI Univeral player thats a great buy from Amazon-

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-DVD-1940CI-player-upscaling/dp/B000T892MA/ref=sr_1_41?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1273009503&sr=1-41#moreAboutThisProduct

I bought the Yamaha S-1800 on Sale for $79 down from $450. Its a good SACD and average CDP. I bought it just for SACD play.

[emaidel]

I wonder if that's why Parvi's Symphony Fantastique sounds so horrible...?

.
Paavo Jarvi's rendition of "Symphonie Fantastique" is an early Telarc SACD that didn't use the MKH-800 microphone. To me, it sounds OK, but is recorded at far too low a level. I also don't think much of Jarvi's skill as a conductor: he's certainly not bad, but tends to make much of the material sound plodding and dull. Far and away, his worst SACD - both in terms of lackluster, dull sound, and uninspired conducting - is his compilation of material from Tchaikovsky. His Ravel and Debussy compilations aren't much better.

Several folks at Telarc (whom I can't mention) very much disliked the Sennheiser MKH-800, and for the same reasons I don't. Still, others insisted on using it extensively, resulting in big, lush, overly bassy and quite dull sounding recordings. Hardly what I expected when I bought an SACD player.

On the other hand, many SACD's from BIS are nothing short of outstanding, especially Osmo Vanska's superb renditions of all nine Beethoven Symphonies.

[hifitommy]

and still being released. dont let the naysayers drive you off. sacd is clearly better than rbcd and about equal to LP. another thing is that sacd players upsample prior to filtration which makes them sound better because they avoid the distortion caused by ringing in conventional DACs.

my rbcd collection bec ame more dear to me after hearing them on my sony ns500v and the marantz 6001 is pretty close. i

picked the marantz because it also will do DVDA which is much more dead than sacd. still, i want to play whatever dvda i get hold of (i have a few including beck's guero).

and people thought i was anachronistic for sticking with vinyl!

[poppachubby]

Hello High Fidelity Thomas. I had a listen to the new Marantz SA 11S2 SACDP over the weekend. It was mesmorizing and indeed every bit as wonderful as vinyl. Thought I would start looking into adding a machine to my HT room.

Have you checked your email? I am waiting for a response from you. I need your opinion regarding value of a couple new TTs.

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Poppa,

If you are interested in my Marantz PM me.

[Mr Peabody]

Poppa, I have not embraced SACD but A couple thoughts come to mind. First, if possible audition the NAD Master Series SACD, it can be found $999.00 usually. It only plays CD/SACD though. Being an analog guy you might appreciate this unit's special sound. It's not the last word in resolution but the instruments have a weight and realism. I find the sound sort of "dark". When I was listening a Jazz piece was on and the sax cut through and I could just feel myself in a dark smokey Jazz Club.

Also, you mentioned upgrading your HT set up. The Marantz AV8003 preamp processor can be found pretty cheap online compared to it's original retail and it does decode DSD, so all you would need is something like the Oppo or similar Blu-ray that plays SACD. Then you'd be set for BD or SACD. The AV8003 will accept the digital DSD via HDMI. I can't remember price but Accessories For Less had some pretty cheap.

[Mr Peabody]

Eagle Rock is pumping out a pretty good number and variety of Blu-ray concerts.

[poppachubby]

Thanks for the heads up Peabody. My dealer pushes NAD hard, it would be simple for me to audition anything NAD. I'll go have a look for it on Monday, this weekend is Mother's Day.

[hifitommy]

would be a better choice. it will do ALL significant formats including dvda and BD which is likely to take off at least for a while. its acceptance in the press is an encouragement. 2L is releasing some titles that include BD and sacd for the one price.

AND its less than $1k.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83SE/

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

note the included prices.

[poppachubby]

Tommy, I am a bit busy right now. Can you tell me why i shouldn't buy the BDP-80?

[hifitommy]

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/default.asp

but if the price is right, and it is at amazon at $289, no reason i guess. you could pore over the specs etc at the oppo site for comparison.

i just think not buying a completely universal player like the nad for more money might be a waste.

[blackraven]

Pops, if you are buying the Oppo for its SACD play then the BD-83se would be the best choice as its analog section is improved.

I think that the Marantz SA8001/8003 would be a great player for you because of its warmer more analog sound. It's definitely less didgital sounding than most players. The NAD also sounds like it would be a good fit.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Eagle Rock is pumping out a pretty good number and variety of Blu-ray concerts.

Yep, it is nice to be on their screener's list! I have found both the sound quality and video quality of their releases to be consistently very good.

[YBArcam]

I'm currently running a Cambridge Audio 650BD. I think it's a great player, and it does a nice job on red book CDs too. I believe it's a modified version of the Oppo player. It plays CD, SACD, DVD-A, HDCD, and of course DVD and BR. There are lots of great DVD-A discs out there, of course most of them now are probably only available on ebay and the like.

I briefly had an Arcam DV135, which I wasn't too impressed with. Also a Marantz DV-7001, which was better than the Arcam. The Arcam probably isn't that bad, in the right system.

I moved to the 650BD because I wanted to get rid of the DV-7001 while it was worth something, and blu-ray was a logical upgrade. I am running it in my stereo rig, but eventually video playback will happen too (I'm hoping to run a cable to my PC for that), and I'll continue to use the BD650 in my audio-only system since it's in the same room as my PC.

[frenchmon]

PoppaC....I don't know if you are still looking for a SACDP, but im sitting hear listening to my Marantz universal player the VC6001 and this thing is sounding so good in Red Book mode. I mean its not on the same level in Red book with my Musical Fidelity but its a very nice Red Book player. The SACD is even better. And because its a discontinued model you may be able to find one on the cheep. The only knock against it is the slow loading. So if you can get around that, you will have a very good universal player. New they cost $699. So keep a look out for one...you wont be disapointed. You may find them a round $150 now.

[poppachubby]

PoppaC....I don't know if you are still looking for a SACDP, but im sitting hear listening to my Marantz universal player the VC6001 and this thing is sounding so good in Red Book mode. I mean its not on the same level in Red book with my Musical Fidelity but its a very nice Red Book player. The SACD is even better. And because its a discontinued model you may be able to find one on the cheep. The only knock against it is the slow loading. So if you can get around that, you will have a very good universal player. New they cost $699. So keep a look out for one...you wont be disapointed. You may find them a round $150 now.

Thanks for thinking of me frenchie! Actually, JRA and I struck up a deal for his Marantz SA series mentioned in this thread.

I am considering a used Pioneer DV-578 available locally. It gets good ratings for it's class, and it would be a cheap way for me to try out SACD. He is selling the unit which is mint, plus 3 mint discs for $100. Nice deal. It also plays DVD-A.

If I dig it, I'll put it into my secondary HT and buy JRA's Marantz for the main HT. I have come to the same conclusion as you. They play RBCD's excellent, so it's not a loss to buy a good SACD machine.

Firstly I must buy a new TT.

At this moment, I have my headphones on playing RBCD of this little gem, could definitely use the Marantz...

frenchmon, I'm ridin high on cloud nine...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/1969-tempts-cloud9.jpg

[frenchmon]

Im sure you will like the Marantz SACD. Mine is just wonderful.

Good choice in the TEMPS....I love all their stuff....sad day when Eddie Kendricks died.