AKFest 2010

[poppachubby]

Well, it was a great day today! Firstly I got to meet my buddy 02audionoob and hang for the day. Awesome fun and of course, he's a stand up guy. He even bought me Taco Bell. He took alot of pics too, which I'm sure he'll be adding along with his thoughts.

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So the scene was set for some good times. AKFest was held at a Sheraton hotel. They booked floors 2 and 3 with some minor action on the main floor. Each manufacturer had a guest room to set up in.

I didn't know what to expect, but I would start by saying it seemed very slow. I mean in the low attendance way. This of course was a good thing as rooms were very accessible with no rush to leave. Also, the technicians were also handy to help or answer questions.

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After reading Rich's reviews about CES I didn't bother to bring any music. Murphy's Law...I think every room we walked into asked if we had something to play.

I thought for a bit about how I wanted to make this thread. I don't want to bore anyone, but I want to include some relevant info also. I guess I'll give my overall impressions and if anyone has questions, fire away.

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I really thought that I was going to be overwhelmed with all the product we were set to see. My wife had prepared herself to see me come home, self loathing and all. I always get antsy after seeing a nice set up, particularily if it kills mine! I could only imagine what a day of nice set ups would do for the audio libido.

Surprisingly, no actually shockingly, there was no large amounts of envy to be had. I was in disbelief at just how many rooms sounded bad. Let me define bad for you. Excellent detail, excellent frequency reproduction, excellent seperation, excellent imaging and excellent soundstaging.

Confusing indeed. What made them bad is what they didn't have...a spark, immediacy, ability to engage...they had nothing. Elevator ready if you ask me. I don't know how many rooms we sat in that had this issue, at least a good 7 or 8. Total nap time. It didn't seem to matter what the gear was or how nice it was either.

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The picture you just looked at was of the Audio Note room. We auditioned a CD4.1x into a Jinro 211SE using the Lexus Signature speakers. Roughly 50 grand in gear. I was SOOOO excited that they were there. I know Rich is gonna kill me for saying this, but they had one of the most boring sounds of all. No life whatsoever. I was so dissapointed...



...it wasn't until about half way through the day, that I started to feel pretty good. The more bland and blahzay we encountered, the more I thought about my meager little system back at home. Sure, I was beat at things like detail and response, but I was a clear winner for something I realised that is important to me, immediacy.

So onto the best stuff of the day.

Unfortunately audionoob took the VanAlstine photos, so he will have to post them. AVA was using Salk speakers and a pretty humble looking HK CDP. I asked the guys to hook up a beautiful pair of Salk open baffle. We put in Simon's Graceland, and the results were bad. I thought a dynamic album like that would have shined through, but it didn't. We quickly switched to Mangione's greatest hits and bang!! We had a winner. Literally as the first blast of his horn came out, my attention was caught. The AVA and Salk tag teamed in a great way bringing out the best of this jazz recording. The highs were so incredibly smooth, truly effortless for the Salks. The bass was also extremely dynamic as the Salks have a giant rear port which clearly helped the cause.





The next room featured Harbeth speakers with Rogue Audio monoblocks. A Bel Canto transport and Macbook rounded it out.

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Upon first walking in, it had the same feel many of the dud rooms had. I wasn't expecting much. What was great is that the tech allowed us control of the volume and Macbook. Once that was fixed up, we had a listen and this system could perform nicely. I couldn't put my finger on what was unique, but it truly had an engaging quality.



Vocals were bold and imaged nicely but seemed thin, lacking depth to the pitch. Clearly where the vocals suffered is where this set up found its magic for instruments. The Harbeth gave wonderful clarity and tone to even the most subtle of sounds. They were also excellent at imaging, from low volumes to high, the speakers stayed true to each instrument's involvement, never exaggerating or dissapearing.

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I was super excited to visit Grant and hear the LP 6.1. It was there all right, and sounding lovely.

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I must admit, with such a busy room I was distracted and didn't get the best listen to this. Aside from this, Grant truly does have wonderful gear. We had them input the 6.1 into the P-307. Just a magical sound.

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OK, you guys want to know what i think the best room was?!? Drum Roll Please!!

It was the Marantz room. That's right, you heard me.

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We heard the SM and SC-11S1 with SA-11S2 SACDP into a pair of ParadigmSignature S8 Reference.

Pure magic is all I can say. noob and i wondered what it could have been like if they had stepped up the speakers. The 'digms performed wonderfully however, and didn't sound like they needed to play catch up.

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The dynamics were unreal. Full, bodied and textured. I was literally on the edge of my seat. The Marantz combo imaged better than anything else today. If one could say that a set up can be emotional, this is it.

The guitar solo we were listening to had so much range in regards to volume and presence. The Marantz voiced that guitar perfectly and you could feel the passion of the artist playing it.

On that note, the bass was exceptional. Lively and tight, but somehow never overwhelming. Again, there seemed to be dynamic range with this system that nothing else had today.

Anyhow, it was alot of fun and I certainly learned a thing or two. I think I'd like to try and make it for CES next year.

[poppachubby]

Some More Pics


Mac


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Soundstring Cables

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Some random pics...


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[poppachubby]

Here's a great one to look out for. 02audionoob found these guys in a tucked away room. The company is Dali. They are a Danish speaker manufacturer. They had these little speakers at the show call the Mentor Menuet. They are wicked tiny, with 4 inch drivers. They were using a Rega Mira 3 and an Apollo to drive them.

Where's the subwoofer!?!

I've never heard bass come out of a tiny speaker like this before. Room filling, warm and tonal bass. Quite frankly it was incredible. It had to have been the best product of the show. They retail for around $1K a pair.

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[Ajani]

Very good thread PoppaC!!! Thanks for sharing....

You do realize that your audiophile credibility is dead forever by declaring the most "mass market" SS and Cone speakers (Marantz and Paradigm) as the best sound at the show??? :arf:

Seriously though, it illustrates a good point that sometimes audiophiles get so caught up in being snotty about brands and tech, that we'd dismiss excellent products without even listening to them.... I can't count how many times I've heard brands like Marantz, Paradigm and Klipsch get ripped on, by persons who haven't even heard the model in question...

Looking forward to the rest of the pics... and hopefully audionoob's thoughts on the show as well

[poppachubby]

Very good thread PoppaC!!! Thanks for sharing....

You do realize that your audiophile credibility is dead forever by declaring the most "mass market" SS and Cone speakers (Marantz and Paradigm) as the best sound at the show??? :arf:

Seriously though, it illustrates a good point that sometimes audiophiles get so caught up in being snotty about brands and tech, that we'd dismiss excellent products without even listening to them.... I can't count how many times I've heard brands like Marantz, Paradigm and Klipsch get ripped on, by persons who haven't even heard the model in question...

Looking forward to the rest of the pics... and hopefully audionoob's thoughts on the show as well

Thanks for the compliment as I'm not too confident about "reviewing" as such. You would have loved the Dali's as I know you have a thing for small monitor style speakers. Keep an eye out for them as I'm sure they'll make a splash. They were noob's find.

As for the show, I suppose personal taste plays into it. The rooms I didn't enjoy had gear that did all it claimed to do, except entertain me.

There were a couple of instances where noob and I didn't agree fully. He enjoys "laid back" more than I do, but for the most part we would leave together in agreement.

The Marantz/Paradigm had the best vibe while still remaining true to all of the academic categories we judge in. Quite simply, you had to be there to hear it. I think there are quite a few Marantz fans on AR in terms of SACD, and certainly some Paradigm fans also.

We missed the Jolida room which was a big dissapointment. We stuck our heads in and he ran down the gear they were demo'ing. Looked amazing.

[poppachubby]

The other thing I should add is that quite a few of the exhibitors were using high end, super fancy voltage regulators. Monster had one on display which had a smart tech in it. Every few seconds it would check the voltage and adjust accordingly, based on settings you have inputted.

Mac also had a new voltage unit on display, and in their chain.

[thekid]

Pops-Great write up and commentary!!
It would have been nice to get back to my home state and listen to some excellent audio to boot but it just wasn't in the cards.

[JohnMichael]

Great write up and excellent pictures. Hey who is the good looking guy next to Frank? I really wish I could have been there but there is always next time.

[frenchmon]

Nice reporting poppaC! Why am I not surprised at the Marantz Reference and Paraidgm Reference Sigs 8??? Because I know what both can do. THe Paadigm has a very good mid-range soud that can truly give off some sound...and with Marantz Referenceit is very good indeed...totally different from the Mass Market line of AVRs'.

frenchmon

[Ajani]

Thanks for the compliment as I'm not too confident about "reviewing" as such. You would have loved the Dali's as I know you have a thing for small monitor style speakers. Keep an eye out for them as I'm sure they'll make a splash. They were noob's find.

As for the show, I suppose personal taste plays into it. The rooms I didn't enjoy had gear that did all it claimed to do, except entertain me.

There were a couple of instances where noob and I didn't agree fully. He enjoys "laid back" more than I do, but for the most part we would leave together in agreement.

The Marantz/Paradigm had the best vibe while still remaining true to all of the academic categories we judge in. Quite simply, you had to be there to hear it. I think there are quite a few Marantz fans on AR in terms of SACD, and certainly some Paradigm fans also.

We missed the Jolida room which was a big dissapointment. We stuck our heads in and he ran down the gear they were demo'ing. Looked amazing.

Shame you missed Jolida, I'm always interested to hear opinions on their gear (I may not own any tubes yet - but I want some in my 2nd or main system eventually - variety is king)..

I'm actually a fan of Marantz CD players... The last CD player I had before I switched completely to Music Servers was the CD5001... If I was a rabid classical lover, then I would have opted for the Marantz SA8001 instead of my DAC1...

One clarification though: I'm not a small monitor guy (other than on my PC)... 1) I do like deep bass (just not boomy and/or over-emphasised bass) & 2) Not an 'audiophile' reason - but I much prefer the look of a big pair of towers over monitors on a stand... Especially the old school 3ways with the 12 inch woofers!!!

[poppachubby]

I'm actually a fan of Marantz CD players... The last CD player I had before I switched completely to Music Servers was the CD5001... If I was a rabid classical lover, then I would have opted for the Marantz SA8001 instead of my DAC1...

Yes, it's one area they managed to keep their reputation in tact with. Of course having Philips behind them never hurt either. There are a couple of vintage models I would love to own, but I'm now considering research on SACD. Research aside, I won't have the budget for a proper SACDP for some time.



One clarification though: I'm not a small monitor guy

Oh. Sorry I seem to recall you having love for M-Audio and such. I just thought big sound from a small box would intrigue you.

[02audionoob]

I did indeed have the good times of meeting up with Chubbs and making the rounds. I made out much better than Chubbs did, since all he got was Taco Bell and I got a pair of his handmade speaker cable, 6 records and a handful of jazz DVDs.

I too was impressed with the Marantz setup, even to the point of probably agreeing that it was the best sound we heard. I was digging those tiny Dali speakers and that setup also reinforced how much I like the Rega electronics. I didn't get quite the quality of photos that Chubbs did, for the most part...but here are a few...

Grant Fidelity...
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Some tube glow in the Audio Note room...
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Some more tube glow in another room...a Danish speaker designer...
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The Danish speakers...
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Tyler's towers, driven by yet another tube system...
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[02audionoob]

The Marantz setup...
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The McIntosh setup...
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I forgot to check who makes these monsters...
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The $60k speakers...
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The Salk speakers and the Van Alstine gear (with a Squeezebox and a Harman/Kardon CD player...
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All in all, a great time. It was fun to see the guys whose names are on the equipment and especially fun to meet up with Chubbs and talk about not just gear but life in general.

[poppachubby]

I forgot about those goofy $60K speakers. Even the stupid price tag couldn't jog my memory, not like the sound would either.

You got some sweet azz pics. There's a thread on AK hurtin for pics. I'm too lazy at this point.

How'd you make out today? Hit the shops? I'm thinking about SACD, hard.

[02audionoob]

The shops listed on the AK site were all over the area, including as far east as Eastpointe (east of Detroit) and I was staying out southwest of Ann Arbor. So my record shopping consisted of only Encore Recordings in Ann Arbor. We took a little mini-tour of the U-M campus...stopped in at their art museum, the law library and a few other places. I didn't take a camera, so I'll just borrow someone else's photo of the beautiful new wing of the art museum.

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[Ajani]

Yes, it's one area they managed to keep their reputation in tact with. Of course having Philips behind them never hurt either. There are a couple of vintage models I would love to own, but I'm now considering research on SACD. Research aside, I won't have the budget for a proper SACDP for some time.

Yep, their SACD players have been well respected by audiophiles for quite some time... Their amps have been respected in Europe and Asia for quite some time... but still get a hard time in the US, despite some excellent reviews... The amp you heard at the show is rated Class A in Stereophile...



Oh. Sorry I seem to recall you having love for M-Audio and such. I just thought big sound from a small box would intrigue you.

Oh it is intriguing... I actually do like active speakers quite a bit (for budget buys)... The M-Audios are excellent entry level speakers... I honestly can't think of an amp/speaker combo I'd prefer at $400 (or possibly even $800).... However, I donated the M-Audios to someone who really loves small monitors: my younger brother...

[frenchmon]

I'm actually a fan of Marantz CD players... The last CD player I had before I switched completely to Music Servers was the CD5001... If I was a rabid classical lover, then I would have opted for the Marantz SA8001 instead of my DAC1...

!

Yeah...i hear ya, im a fan as well....I really like their Reference line stuff and I hear the new "Pearl" stuff is off the chain.

frenchmon

[bobsticks]

What an outstanding review! Thanks for sharing your insights and the excellent pics...I'm crafting a memo right now to various members on the State and Federal Gaming Commisions as to why I need a lottery win to afford that Mac stack...beautimous...

Greenies for you, sir...

[02audionoob]

In the case of this particular McIntosh system, I thought it was among the lesser-quality setups at the Fest...or perhaps mid-pack. I wouldn't go so far as to judge all of their gear by this one quick listen, but on one of the two rooms I heard a harsher edge to the music than I would have been happy with if it were my system.

[RGA]

poppachubby

First nice show report

Second I am glad to see rooms allowing you to bring your own music and making it a point to ask you - maybe they read my show report and clued in (chortle chortle), though others made the same comments at CES.

Third, never think you have to agree with anyone or that I would get on you for not liking something I like. Though you do know you're wrong, right? :18:

Seriously though, I have read so many responses to Audio Note at show reports over the years and yours is not at all out of line with several of them. And I should point out that I was so unimpressed on my first audition that I didn't even bother to take note of the model names.

I read one not long ago where a reviewer went to the room one day hated it went back to it on another day and had completely opposite reaction proclaiming it the best sound he heard at the show. http://sixmoons.com/industryfeatures/vsac20083/vsac_2.html

Fred Crowder had this experience at CES this year as well. At CES Fred said that the "Sound early on Thursday was disappointing, but... http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=694

It is interesting that this seems to be fairly common reaction. If the 6 moons reviewer didn't make the second trip then his view would be wildly different. Though I would find it odd to be boring with the music that Peter brings to the shows - the very high volume level metal and hard rock and trance music he plays should get the pulse going. Though Dave is more of a classical opera guy which frankly doesn't really work at shows in my opinion. It's more intimate music that IMO requires a more intimate setting than an audio show with people blathering away and coming and going. But that's just me. When I listen to classical or most instrumental for that matter I like to be in my chair relaxed without any distractions of any kind. Other kinds of music work better in busier environments - rock dance hip hop etc.

[Geoffcin]

Hey Poppy & Noob, this is some great stuff you guys posted! Glad you got to hear some great systems. Paradigm eh? Doesn't surprise me at all. When I covered the 2005 HE expo the Totem Mani-2 won best in show from me. Those Canadians make some great speakers!

[poppachubby]

Though Dave is more of a classical opera guy which frankly doesn't really work at shows in my opinion. It's more intimate music that IMO requires a more intimate setting than an audio show with people blathering away and coming and going. .

It was quiet and boring. The dynamics were not apparent at all. Detail was quite evident, but I didn't really care.

Perhaps next time...

[bobsticks]

In the case of this particular McIntosh system, I thought it was among the lesser-quality setups at the Fest...or perhaps mid-pack. I wouldn't go so far as to judge all of their gear by this one quick listen, but on one of the two rooms I heard a harsher edge to the music than I would have been happy with if it were my system.

I'm not surprised...Mac is similar to Krell only in that they produce some outstanding electronics (IMO and assuming you like the "house sound") and some outstandingly sucky speakers...

[woofersus]

Nice writeup. I agree on the Marantz room - it was excellent. My favorite was the Tyler Acoustics D1's however. I'd peg Marantz/Paradigm as second. Probably third, and one of the biggest values, was the Fritz Audio room. There were other good sounding rooms, but frequently that came at a monstrous price tag, like Dynaudio/Wadia or McIntosh. The Audio Note room was ok, but I felt like not enough to justify the pricing. The big 211 amp was really nice though. (better be for 20k)

My biggest surprise of the show was the big classic 1.3's (the unnamed "big ones" noted above) I thought that system sounded really nice, and I don't usually like big horns or vinyl. (of course the proprietor got a little irritated with me when I suggested almighty vinyl might not be where its at, but I was trying to impress upon him how exceptional HIS vinyl/horn setup was)

Room acoustics tend to be bad, so I try not to judge too harshly, but the most disappointing rooms for me were the Focal/Monster/Micromega setup, the Jolida/MBL/Tascam setup, and the Bamberg 5 series system. Oh, and a room that was hosted by a local club where I heard some vintage Klipsch speakers that sounded godawful. Almost like something was broken. I'm guessing it wasn't Klipsch's fault, whatever it was.

Great writeup. Wish I'd taken so many pics.

[02audionoob]

I'm not surprised...Mac is similar to Krell only in that they produce some outstanding electronics (IMO and assuming you like the "house sound") and some outstandingly sucky speakers...

That's a good point. I wandered into a McIntosh dealer's shop one time and sat and listened to a Mac digital setup with some B&W floorstanders and it was probably the best system I had ever heard at the time.

[RGA]

It was quiet and boring. The dynamics were not apparent at all. Detail was quite evident, but I didn't really care.

Perhaps next time...

It's unfortunate that Dave is suffering from tinnitus - he had to leave the CES room numerous times when Peter started to play the metal. Unfortunately, they need to play Audio Note like a big Horn system like those from Avantegarde or Dual Concentrics like the Tannoys. Not that low volume is not important but at a busy show - put on some Slayer, AC/DC, Nightwish, Evil Nine and crush the room with driving powerful bass. Illustrate what a SET can do - then after that play the 70db Renata Tebaldi, Marias Callas stuff that other rooms love. While classical is great - it is arguably the least popular music being listened to today. So why not play what people "mostly" listen to - and that usually has some sort of drum set.

No excuse - I bet I would have liked several more rooms at CES if they bloody well turned the volume up and put on some music with a pulse. I mean if I have to listen to another room playing some slow ass Diana Krall or the 50 other artists of similar slow ass pace commonly played in most rooms I'll drive a fork into my ear. I mean seriously I don't need to hear someone covering for the umpteenth time one of Ella Fitgerald's tunes - chances are very very likely I end up liking the Ella version a helluva lot better so why would I want to listen to Diana Krall or Nora Jones sing it worse? Makes little sense. Though I like both of those two when they sing new stuff.

I digress.

[poppachubby]

Nice writeup. I agree on the Marantz room - it was excellent. My favorite was the Tyler Acoustics D1's however.

Thanks for the kind words Tim. Welcome to the site! I hope an experienced enthusiast, such as yourself, will stick around and join our small but passionate group. There is a ton of experience here, of all interests.

It's funny you mention the Tylers. They were a pair I wanted to like, but didn't end up enjoying. When we went into one of the member's rooms, he had a smaller pair of Tylers set up with a Rita tube amp and SACD player. I enjoyed those quite a bit. We had a similar experience with Mac/Classic Audio.

I missed a few rooms which is my biggest regret now. :incazzato:

The room with the big azz horns and tubes looked phenomenal, but sonically was unappealing to me. I think interaction helps fuel interest. The Rogue Audio/Harbeth would have been lame if the tech hadn't turned control over to us. It was only then that we were able to see what it could do.

I think some rooms were concerned if they pushed the volume too hard, the speakers might break. Heck, turn the darn thing up, let people hear AND feel it. Show the world you are here and ready to make some noise!! This approach may have changed my view of a few rooms.

[poppachubby]

I like both of those two when they sing new stuff.

I digress.

Ya, I don't mind Diana Krall or Nora Jones. I would have been happy to hear them played. Some rooms were far lamer than that.

I was looking for a casket in the room, wondering if we had wandered away from the show, and into a procession.

[Geoffcin]

I think some rooms were concerned if they pushed the volume too hard, the speakers might break. Heck, turn the darn thing up, let people hear AND feel it. Show the world you are here and ready to make some noise!! This approach may have changed my view of a few rooms.


Actually it's simple respect because that they don't want to step all over each other at the show. If everyone just played as loud as they liked or could then the whole place would be an orgy of noise.

Most speakers open up over 80dB or so. Lord knows my maggies are like night and day when you get them cranking, but at shows it's just not done at shows unless you've rented the big hall just for yourself.

I remember being totally non-plussed by a pair of VonSwiekert VR9-se's in a small room. They were hooked up to massive amps, but playing at like 70dB although I'm sure that we could have pealed the wallpaper off with them. The tech (who happend to be the designer) said we could have "pressurized the whole floor"! However the smaller VR4-sr sounded better in it's slightly larger room playing just slightly louder. Go figure.

[woofersus]

Actually it's simple respect because that they don't want to step all over each other at the show. If everyone just played as loud as they liked or could then the whole place would be an orgy of noise.

Most speakers open up over 80dB or so. Lord knows my maggies are like night and day when you get them cranking, but at shows it's just not done at shows unless you've rented the big hall just for yourself.

I remember being totally non-plussed by a pair of VonSwiekert VR9-se's in a small room. They were hooked up to massive amps, but playing at like 70dB although I'm sure that we could have pealed the wallpaper off with them. The tech (who happend to be the designer) said we could have "pressurized the whole floor"! However the smaller VR4-sr sounded better in it's slightly larger room playing just slightly louder. Go figure.

That's true, but I thought some rooms found a nice medium level that allowed for decent listening and didn't shake the walls. I specifically remember the Von Schweikerts in Denver last year sounding basically pleasing, but being played so quiet I couldn't really evaluate them. One of the quietest rooms at the show actually. I think it's a combination of the preferences of whoever is running the system/room and the perceived strengths of the speakers.

[woofersus]

It's funny you mention the Tylers. They were a pair I wanted to like, but didn't end up enjoying. When we went into one of the member's rooms, he had a smaller pair of Tylers set up with a Rita tube amp and SACD player. I enjoyed those quite a bit. We had a similar experience with Mac/Classic Audio..

I think the Tylers were a bit too big for the room they were in, which made it a little tough to judge some of their characteristics, but I'm familiar with the designer's (Danny Richie) other work and most of his hallmarks were there. I thought that they had the cleanest and fastest bass at the show, and the top end was totally non-fatiguing. Very easy to listen to a little too loud.

I did feel similarly about the Macs. I didn't spend a ton of time in that room since it was crowded and it didn't immediately do anything for me, but I expected something great and found it to be just ok. Nothing bad really, but not exceptional by any means.

[poppachubby]

Actually it's simple respect because that they don't want to step all over each other at the show. If everyone just played as loud as they liked or could then the whole place would be an orgy of noise.



Point taken, but some of these rooms were really quiet Geoff. Also, the rooms were quite isolated in terms of sound leaking into the halls or through the walls. Perhaps we were on the newlywed floor...