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Mr Peabody
04-25-2010, 07:19 PM
I have been converted or convinced. After being impressed by my Heresy III I realized Klipsch could make good speakers. The Heresy dropped off sharply around 60Hz or so though. They were still a lot of fun to listen to. I wanted a pair of Cornwall bad, something that sounded good yet went lower. Their cabinet was just too big for my space. So I contemplated a sub. I kept an eye out for Klipsch for sale thinking in my mind if I saw a pair of Cornwall I'd make it work some how. No, I didn't find any. However I saw a pair of Forte. It sort of rang a bell but I knew they weren't in the Heritage. So I asked my Klipsch guru about them and he said they were very good. So I picked up a pair from CL for $400.00. The cabinets are a bit rough but the drivers looked perfect. Well, one passive radiator has a dented dust cap. One of the corners on the base were cracked so I took them off as soon as I got them home.

I typically don't care for passive radiators. OK, enough babble, the Forte are phenominal. Just amazing. The best Klipsch speaker I've ever heard. They seem to have the good character of horns without the negatives. If you didn't know I wonder if you could tell they were horns or Klipsch just by listening. They do play lower than the Heresy but the response is nicely balanced. I mean I can crank these babies without the horns piercing my ear drums. But they aren't rolled off or dull either, not sure how Klipsch achieved this. What's more puzzling is why they aren't making speakers like this today. The Forte has to be the best value in a used speaker, ever. I had them hooked to my Conrad Johnson gear, began going through some CD's evaluating sound quality and found myself just letting the songs play, taken back by what I was hearing and enjoying it.

The thing about Klipsch they are very sensitive but on the other hand they are very revealing. So lower power amps may not be a problem but low quality will be. You guys looking for a good bang for the buck on a used speaker need to learn which Klipsch are good. Then treat yourself to a pair.

Now I have a dilemma. The Heresy were short and tilted back some so I could actually sit them in front of my t2.5's. The Forte are much taller and do not tilt. So I will either have to move them around when wanting to listen to them or make them permanent and put together some other Klipsch to go with it for surround sound. I know it's crazy to like these better than my Dyn's for music but at the time I do. I'm sure I will be wrestling this a long time because this is something I don't want to make any hasty moves on .

Ajani
04-25-2010, 07:42 PM
Well take your time and decide... Part of what makes this hobby so exciting is that no matter how experienced you are, there maybe a product around the corner that makes you rethink your HiFi preferences... Enjoy!

Ajani
04-25-2010, 07:52 PM
So all you need now are some Klipsch La Scala II's and a 3 watt Set amp...

Mr Peabody
04-25-2010, 08:00 PM
What I really need is more room :)

Ajani
04-25-2010, 08:12 PM
What I really need is more room :)

How about a room filled with money? I think that's what all of us HiFi nuts really need...

poppachubby
04-25-2010, 08:29 PM
Congrats Peabody. Soon you will be leaving us to post at the Klipsch forum.

It's funny, I think what's happening with your discovery is more than just the Klipsch speakers themselves. It's really your system's synergy and signature, perfect for the Klipsch sound. I am a HUGE fan of radiated bass but I have never heard the Forte.

I would love eventually to own some LaScala, your posts are making them more desirable that's for sure.

basite
04-26-2010, 01:14 AM
What I really need is more room :)


and a pair of Klipschorns, and a 3watt SET amp...

thekid
04-26-2010, 01:15 AM
Congrats!
There are alot of Forte fans so I guess you are finding out why. If space is an issue you can always send the Heresy's my way and I will babysit them for you......... :D
$400 also seems like a good price for them so you did doubly well. Looking at their driver complement they must do bass very well I would think.

Your comments on the Klipsch sound just make it even more painful that I am on the road for the next 3 weeks and can't get around to rehabbing the Heresy I's....... :(

RGA
04-26-2010, 09:32 AM
High efficiency speakers with good electronics is tough to beat. Now imagine much better HE speakers with all the advantages and none of the pitfalls of the vintage horns and with bass. Booya!!

Worf101
04-26-2010, 11:23 AM
What I really need is more room :)
Might I interest Monseur in a 20 pound sledge hammer?

Worf

3LB
04-26-2010, 02:47 PM
I am familiar with the Forte and I love PRs. I own a set of Polks with PRs. I designed a single driver concept, bipolar configuration with forward firing PR and still use it today.

Some guys hear PR and don't like them. Some guys would rather read graphs. You never know until you try. I love klipsch.

FWIW I've heard those LaScalas...I'd rather have the Fortes or better yet, the Chorus (The Forte's big brother).

jrhymeammo
04-26-2010, 03:36 PM
Congrats Mr. P.

I've tried to acquire a pair of Forte few times, but other Agon members had quicker fingers than mine... I don't think the Forte are out of place in your system or any other decent speakers. You have great gear for any speakers to strut their stuff.

LeRoy
04-26-2010, 05:13 PM
Congrats on your latest speaker score.

LeRoy

Mr Peabody
04-26-2010, 06:39 PM
3LB, any idea what would make a good center for the Forte?

Bassite, when are you going to get a CD player upgrade :) Not that the 5001 is bad but it's not to the level of the rest of your system.

Mr Peabody
04-26-2010, 06:46 PM
Just like a Klingon.... always wanting to hammer something :) Sorry, must decline I have to stay within my boundaries.

JoeE SP9
04-26-2010, 06:49 PM
Glad to hear you got something you like. Good listening. Congrats.:thumbsup:

bfalls
04-27-2010, 05:49 AM
I have a pair of Kg4 which are in the same line as the Fortes. I always felt the Heresey's were bass-shy but have an excellent mid-range.

I really enjoy the Kg4s and will never part with them. I have them in a HT setup with a KV3 center and RS-3 surrounds. Excellent little system. It's not really needed, but for fun I've added a ACI Saturn compound sub driven by a Marantz M-700 mono amp. It really helps when watching movies.

I think the KV3 matches the Kg4s perfectly and would probably sound good with the Fortes. Others have also used the Klipsch Academy ( sought after and can be pricey). I tried a KLF-C7 because I thought its 8" woofers would match the Kg4s better, but didn't like the combo. The C7 made the voices sound as though they were passing overhead, instead of coming from the screen. I also thought I'd try an RC-35 or RC-3, but changed my mind since I was happy with the KV3.

I see the KV3 on ebay frequently for around $150-$200 and the Academys for about double.

Mr Peabody
04-27-2010, 08:53 AM
bfalls, thanks. Is the Academy a line or is that just what they call the center? I'm assuming neither of those are current models?

bfalls
04-27-2010, 09:39 AM
bfalls, thanks. Is the Academy a line or is that just what they call the center? I'm assuming neither of those are current models?

Yes both are past models. The Academy is a center speaker. I believe the best match for the Forte will be from a past series. I don't think you'd find a good match from their current speakers, too many different materials and horns.

You might try a KV3. They're popular enough you'd have no problem selling it if you don't like it. It was a perfect match for my KG4s. The believe the Forte is the next speaker in line, but not positive. There's a Quartet in there somewhere.

frenchmon
04-27-2010, 10:08 AM
Cant wait to get to your place MrP....I want to hear those babies....but I would have liked to see you get the Ergos....but if you are happy thats all that matters. You just may have to push those big Dynaudios t2.5's out the door if the Klipsch are doing what the Cantons did.

Maybe this Saturday I can come over and listen, and then we go to Wylies to hear the Gallo's and the Musical Designs Amp

frenchmon

Ajani
04-27-2010, 10:10 AM
What I really need is more room :)

Since room is an issue, you could always send the Dyns my way... I have space for them... :ihih:

Mr Peabody
04-27-2010, 11:49 AM
Coincidently a dealer has a KV3 for $150.00 on Audiogon. It's black but, hey... maybe on the shelf it won't be so noticeable.

I agree, a center would have to be a model prior to Titanium at least.

Ajani, I may move along my 60's at some point but I'll probably hang on to the Contours. Of course, if I can hang out in Jamaica with them.... we may be able to work something out. :)

Ajani
04-27-2010, 11:53 AM
Coincidently a dealer has a KV3 for $150.00 on Audiogon. It's black but, hey... maybe on the shelf it won't be so noticeable.

Go for it... You should be able to sell it if you don't like the sound (or the cosmetics) without losing much money...

audio amateur
04-27-2010, 02:01 PM
P, why don't you make do without a center? You can reroute the center channel info to your mains easily by setting the center speaker to 'off' on your pre/pro. Unless your mains are super far apart from each other it should work well.

frenchmon
04-27-2010, 02:46 PM
Coincidently a dealer has a KV3 for $150.00 on Audiogon. It's black but, hey... maybe on the shelf it won't be so noticeable.

I agree, a center would have to be a model prior to Titanium at least.

Ajani, I may move along my 60's at some point but I'll probably hang on to the Contours. Of course, if I can hang out in Jamaica with them.... we may be able to work something out. :)

Are you really thinking of replacing your Dyns with the Forte's and a Center channel?

frenchmon

Ajani
04-27-2010, 02:59 PM
Are you really thinking of replacing your Dyns with the Forte's and a Center channel?

frenchmon

Seems so... I already called dibs on the Dyns..... lol

Mr Peabody
04-27-2010, 03:14 PM
For now let's just call it creating an alternative, not replacing. I also need to do more listening to each set up.

AA, no center is an option I just have been used to having one. The Klipsch do put the vocals dead center too.

jrhymeammo
04-27-2010, 03:28 PM
Hey P

We are happy to hear you are having a positive experience with your new toy, but hold off on any further purchases...

frenchmon
04-27-2010, 03:55 PM
For now let's just call it creating an alternative, not replacing. I also need to do more listening to each set up.

AA, no center is an option I just have been used to having one. The Klipsch do put the vocals dead center too.

Well I can see why you would switch speakers....the Klipsch may present a more lively sound than the Dyns. They are totally two different sounds. The Dyns are a more relaxed laid back sound while the Klipsch are more excitable in the high extensions and mids.

I wonder what the Klipsch Palladium sounds like? I betcha that sucker has a large dispersion of sound. Its to bad the smalles floor standers cost $8000 a pair.

Mr Peabody
04-27-2010, 06:17 PM
I just watched a recorded hour of 24 and scanned some HD channels. What was different is for fun I put a Heresy in for center and hooked up the Forte. I know it would have been better with proper set up but for some reason the Klipsch on home theater was not as thrilling as on music. The sub needed to be turned higher but aside from that the vocals weren't as natural as with the Dyn's and although sound effects like doors opening and guns being cocked were much more prominent with the Klipsch they some how seemed too prominent if that makes sense.

It's so hard comparing music between the Dyn's and Klipsch just because the sound is so drastically different.

Mr Peabody
04-28-2010, 07:41 PM
I guess this is becoming my blog. After listening to a couple things tonight through the Forte I moved them out of the way and plugged the t2.5's back in. The Dyn's rank supreme on bass, good grief. The Forte has decent bass it's very quick and clean. The T2.5's are detailed in the bass but the bass fillls the room more, like I'm using a sub. With the t2.5's the vocals are warm and more like the singer is in the room. The Forte, vocals still seem live but more like maybe an amplified version. The dynamics with the Klipsch are addicting. The t2.5's are dynamic with a lot of power. The Klipsch seem to be more of an airy sound, that thing that gives a sense of live in the room.

No conclusions just observations.

frenchmon
04-29-2010, 10:25 AM
I guess this is becoming my blog. After listening to a couple things tonight through the Forte I moved them out of the way and plugged the t2.5's back in. The Dyn's rank supreme on bass, good grief. The Forte has decent bass it's very quick and clean. The T2.5's are detailed in the bass but the bass fillls the room more, like I'm using a sub. With the t2.5's the vocals are warm and more like the singer is in the room. The Forte, vocals still seem live but more like maybe an amplified version. The dynamics with the Klipsch are addicting. The t2.5's are dynamic with a lot of power. The Klipsch seem to be more of an airy sound, that thing that gives a sense of live in the room.

No conclusions just observations.

The bass on the Dyns seem to overpower the rest of the sound of the speaker when you compare then to whats going on in the Klipsch...you think?

frenchmon

poppachubby
04-29-2010, 10:34 AM
Mr. P what are your thoughts regarding sources?

I have found that with CDP my Sound Dynamics can respond rather harshly depending on the disc. With analog they are very well suited. Have you done much comparison with this angle?

Ajani
04-29-2010, 11:55 AM
Mr. P what are your thoughts regarding sources?

I have found that with CDP my Sound Dynamics can respond rather harshly depending on the disc. With analog they are very well suited. Have you done much comparison with this angle?

Just a hint, PoppaC: Mr P is a hardcore source 1st advocate and the reason some of us AR members upgraded from $300 CD players....

frenchmon
04-29-2010, 12:52 PM
PoppaC....I can tell you this...if your sources are not up to the level of your amp and preamp and even your speakers....you will know it.
frenchmon

frenchmon
04-29-2010, 01:03 PM
Put it to you like this....I have a $750.00 Marantz 7.1 reciever in my hometheater...a Adcom amp for the front speakers which are a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7v3 for fronts...and Klipsch towers (KM 4) in the rears and a nice Mirage sub and center channel. I have a cheap $100 sony CDP.It sounds like dookie in that system. But it does just fine with junk. Now when I plug the Rotel into that system...it sounds twice as nice. But the Rotel CDP sounds not as good in the Rotel system as the $1500 XRAY....so the better your source the better it will sound. And the opposite is true as well....if I take the $1500 XRAY and plug it into my Marantz home theater....you would think you are listening to the Rotel.

frenchmon

Ajani
04-29-2010, 01:28 PM
PoppaC....I can tell you this...if your sources are not up to the level of your amp and preamp and even your speakers....you will know it.
frenchmon

There is no recipe for great sound: I've experienced good results with cheap sources and relatively expensive speakers and amplification... Also with cheap speakers and a relatively expensive source... At the moment in order of quality (high to low) my components are source, amp, interconnects, speakers, speaker cable.... And the sound is suprisingly good...

I do suggest looking to the weakest link (note: that is not necesarily the cheapest component in the chain)....

frenchmon
04-29-2010, 01:56 PM
There is no recipe for great sound: I've experienced good results with cheap sources and relatively expensive speakers and amplification... Also with cheap speakers and a relatively expensive source... At the moment in order of quality (high to low) my components are source, amp, interconnects, speakers, speaker cable.... And the sound is suprisingly good...

I do suggest looking to the weakest link (note: that is not necesarily the cheapest component in the chain)....

Hmmmmm....Your experience is different from mine, but I would not call Benchmark, Squeezbox and Emotiva cheap gear as in quality...nor do I know any body who has....when I talk about cheap...I mean quality, not price. The Rotel is not cheap quality wise...but the CDP was made in 1995..., and the Sony was just plain old cheaply made...And the $750 Marantz just can let all the detail through from the XRAY as the two channel separates do. And I dont need to talk about the cheap cables and speaker wire.

frenchmon

Ajani
04-29-2010, 02:17 PM
Hmmmmm....Your experience is different from mine, but I would not call Benchmark, Squeezbox and Emotiva cheap gear as in quality...nor do I know any body who has....when I talk about cheap...I mean quality, not price. The Rotel is not cheap quality wise...but the CDP was made in 1995..., and the Sony was just plain old cheaply made...And the $750 Marantz just can let all the detail through from the XRAY as the two channel separates do. And I dont need to talk about the cheap cables and speaker wire.

frenchmon

I was refering to my Technics speakers and the freebie zipcord with them as cheap... the Benchmark. Emotiva etc is much higher quality....

frenchmon
04-29-2010, 02:41 PM
I was refering to my Technics speakers and the freebie zipcord with them as cheap... the Benchmark. Emotiva etc is much higher quality....

Ohhh...if that's the case, wait till you get your Revels and some decent cable (blue Jean Cable) and then you will see...the nics and the zips will pale in comparison...im sure you have not heard all that the Emotiva , Benchmark and Sqeezbox can do...the detail has not even been released as of yet...just wait and see.

frenchmon

Ajani
04-29-2010, 02:47 PM
Ohhh...if that's the case, wait till you get your Revels and some decent cable (blue Jean Cable) and then you will see...the nics and the zips will pale in comparison...im sure you have not heard all that the Emotiva , Benchmark and Sqeezbox can do...the detail has not even been released as of yet...just wait and see.

frenchmon

No doubt, the nics and zips are the weak links in the chain right now....

Mr Peabody
04-29-2010, 04:51 PM
Frenchmon, I don't think the bass is over powering on the Dyn's, I think despite what it shows on paper the Dyn's still play much lower than the Forte. Could also be the difference between a 2-way versus a 3-way with the 3-way's mid being a horn.

Poppa, I spun some vinyl when I first got the Heresy but have not with the Forte yet.

frenchmon
04-29-2010, 06:05 PM
Frenchmon, I don't think the bass is over powering on the Dyn's, I think despite what it shows on paper the Dyn's still play much lower than the Forte. Could also be the difference between a 2-way versus a 3-way with the 3-way's mid being a horn.

Poppa, I spun some vinyl when I first got the Heresy but have not with the Forte yet.

The Forte is a true 3 way?

frenchmo

Ajani
04-29-2010, 06:19 PM
The Forte is a true 3 way?

frenchmo

Yep:

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/forte-overview/

I love a 3 some ummm 3 way....

poppachubby
04-29-2010, 07:17 PM
Poppa, I spun some vinyl when I first got the Heresy but have not with the Forte yet.

OK you got my meaning. Frenchmon and Ajani, I wasn't referring to whether his sources are up to snuff. I was just asking if different sources using different source material made any difference. I have nice synergy with room to upgrade both my CDP and deck.

Ajani
04-29-2010, 07:29 PM
OK you got my meaning. Frenchmon and Ajani, I wasn't referring to whether his sources are up to snuff. I was just asking if different sources using different source material made any difference. I have nice synergy with room to upgrade both my CDP and deck.

Ah, but do you have the room full of money required to upgrade both? :devil:

poppachubby
04-29-2010, 07:40 PM
Ah, but do you have the room full of money required to upgrade both? :devil:

I think it's you who will be needing a room full of money...Revel. :20: Are you going to buy them new?

Presently my CDP is fine for me. My focus is on a new deck. I'm not sure how to play it. I could get an Ariston for $400 or save and get a brand new Opera Consonance for $1000. We'll see...

Ajani
04-29-2010, 08:38 PM
I think it's you who will be needing a room full of money...Revel. :20: Are you going to buy them new?

Presently my CDP is fine for me. My focus is on a new deck. I'm not sure how to play it. I could get an Ariston for $400 or save and get a brand new Opera Consonance for $1000. We'll see...

Most likely new... Not much of a used market here for audiophile gear... and a half priced, used Revel on Audiogon (after shipping and duties) would cost me as much as a new one from my local dealer...

frenchmon
04-30-2010, 07:18 AM
PoppaC...do you know of any one who has used a Grant Fidelity P-307 - as a buffer? Or what have you heard concerning it? IF so what where the results?

And while I got you hear...if you dont have this...you should go out and get this and then fire up dim tubes...http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8241/51k0r4kej5lsl160aa16005.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/51k0r4kej5lsl160aa16005.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Or I can send you a copy

frenchmon

poppachubby
04-30-2010, 08:53 AM
Hey Frenchie, good to hear from you as always. I would love a copy of that. I have Let Freedom Ring on vinyl and it's a great album. I thought you were talking about the Grant buffer itself. Yes I think that pre amp is a fantastic piece at a great value.

The sonic benefits will be many and I don't think an SS pre can keep up with a tube pre. All the nonsense about "colour" and "soft bass, rolled off highs" is exaggerated. Once in your chain, the last thing you will be thinking about is measurements or decreased dynamics. As a jazz fan you will be floored by the improved imaging/stage, and the exceptional tone of instruments like the tenor sax.

I have Lou Donaldson's Blues Walk on right now, his sax sounds so incredibly sexy. My Kenwood Basic C1 couldn't even come close to what the EICO can achieve.

Concerning if I've heard it or not, no not personally. AudioKarma has an entire room for Grant and its moderated by Ian Grant himself. The feedback for that piece is positive.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=164

What did you have in mind?
Grant have a great return policy, so why not try it out and see?
http://grantfidelity.com/site/P307

http://www.theaudioxchange.com/user_images/7195181.jpg

poppachubby
04-30-2010, 09:13 AM
BTW Byron, I will be at AKFest tommorrow and Grant have a room booked. I plan to spend some extra time in there as it is.

I want to hear the Opera Consanance LP 6.1 table that they retail at $1K. JoeESP9 put me onto the value, and after some researching I have concluded that it's a HUGE value. We have been working OT at the shop like slaves, and I have been stashing money for an upgrade.

If that pre is in the chain, I'll be sure to evaluate it for you.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1109/opera_lp61.jpg

frenchmon
04-30-2010, 12:19 PM
Hey Frenchie, good to hear from you as always. I would love a copy of that. I have Let Freedom Ring on vinyl and it's a great album. I thought you were talking about the Grant buffer itself. Yes I think that pre amp is a fantastic piece at a great value.

The sonic benefits will be many and I don't think an SS pre can keep up with a tube pre. All the nonsense about "colour" and "soft bass, rolled off highs" is exaggerated. Once in your chain, the last thing you will be thinking about is measurements or decreased dynamics. As a jazz fan you will be floored by the improved imaging/stage, and the exceptional tone of instruments like the tenor sax.

I have Lou Donaldson's Blues Walk on right now, his sax sounds so incredibly sexy. My Kenwood Basic C1 couldn't even come close to what the EICO can achieve.

Concerning if I've heard it or not, no not personally. AudioKarma has an entire room for Grant and its moderated by Ian Grant himself. The feedback for that piece is positive.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=164

What did you have in mind?
Grant have a great return policy, so why not try it out and see?
http://grantfidelity.com/site/P307

http://www.theaudioxchange.com/user_images/7195181.jpg

I dont know about that poppaC....my Rotel pre with the XRAY is pretty sweet. The XRAY is kinda sweet sounding and warm by its lonsome and was made for tubes. Musical Fidelity makes tubed gear as well as SS gear and some of their SS seems to have a tubed characteristics. I dont know if you know any thing about Canton speakers but they are pretty dynamic in themselves and have a way of drawing you into the music. They are in no way boring speakers....I once took them over to Peabodys and he said he had never heard box speakers do what they can do....He thought they had a sound similar to electrostats. Then the A+ cables and speaker wire makes for a nice system...its not really hard and edgy like SS and not as rounded as tubes but it does lean that direction as it is.

Yeah...Blues Walk is great, but have you heard Dexter Gordons version...it will blow your sox off. Its on the Album "Gotham City". I use to have the album years ago, but it got away from me and now they don't even make it any more....I can figure out why. If you run across it, grab it in a heart beat. Its got Dexter Gordon on sax, Percy Heath on bass, Art Blakey on drums, Cedar Walton on piano, Woody Shaw on trumpet and George...yes George Benson on guitar. This album is just a killer for any hard bop fan....if you find a copy snatch it up.http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5964/21gdbf1ecklsl500aa30087.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/i/21gdbf1ecklsl500aa30087.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

The XRAY has an external tube DAC...the XDAC V8 that can be had for about $1500 new if you can find one. Used they run about $750-800 on Audiogon if you can find one there. I really dont want to fork out $800 on a used DAC. When I took the XRAY CDPV8 over to Peabodys and connected it with his Conrad-Johnson tubed gear it was a match made in heaven...so, im just think that the P-307 can be used as a tube buffer between my XRAY and preamp or between the pre and amp.

frenchmon

frenchmon
04-30-2010, 12:26 PM
BTW Byron, I will be at AKFest tommorrow and Grant have a room booked. I plan to spend some extra time in there as it is.

I want to hear the Opera Consanance LP 6.1 table that they retail at $1K. JoeESP9 put me onto the value, and after some researching I have concluded that it's a HUGE value. We have been working OT at the shop like slaves, and I have been stashing money for an upgrade.

If that pre is in the chain, I'll be sure to evaluate it for you.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1109/opera_lp61.jpg

Ok thanks

frenchmon

poppachubby
04-30-2010, 05:03 PM
Frenchie I have been auditioning a Scott Nixon TubeDAC for about a week now. Wonderful product and priced quite well. So incredibly detailed with real strength to the subtleties.

Mr Peabody
04-30-2010, 08:08 PM
I have the Heresy back on the CJ gear and I'm really leaning toward them maybe bettering the Forte in midrange but I need to figure out some way to do a shoot out. Both side by side may not be best but it is the only way I know of to go back and forth some what quick. I've been using my Vanessa Williams CD on each set. It's funny you'd think that brass might be overwhelming with the Klipsch but that's an area where the Heresy really shines. It's a bit embarrassing to admit but the brass in the background of one song can be heard with the t2.5's and it's brassy but through the Heresy it's more defined, more like a real horn would sound in the room, it has more form, resolution.

The Forte, maybe due to the rear firing radiator, is sensitive to placement. I hooked them to the Krell in my workout room, the space was more enclosed, and the bass was stronger. I need to play with placement because the Forte aren't impressing in that situation.

poppachubby
05-01-2010, 03:20 AM
I dont know about that poppaC....my Rotel pre with the XRAY is pretty sweet. The XRAY is kinda sweet sounding and warm by its lonsome and was made for tubes. Musical Fidelity makes tubed gear as well as SS gear and some of their SS seems to have a tubed characteristics. I dont know if you know any thing about Canton speakers but they are pretty dynamic in themselves and have a way of drawing you into the music. They are in no way boring speakers....I once took them over to Peabodys and he said he had never heard box speakers do what they can do....He thought they had a sound similar to electrostats. Then the A+ cables and speaker wire makes for a nice system...its not really hard and edgy like SS and not as rounded as tubes but it does lean that direction as it is.


The XRAY has an external tube DAC...the XDAC V8 that can be had for about $1500 new if you can find one. Used they run about $750-800 on Audiogon if you can find one there. I really dont want to fork out $800 on a used DAC. When I took the XRAY CDPV8 over to Peabodys and connected it with his Conrad-Johnson tubed gear it was a match made in heaven...so, im just think that the P-307 can be used as a tube buffer between my XRAY and preamp or between the pre and amp.

frenchmon

I don't know what to tell you. Clearly you've heard the awesome ability of the tubes in a pre function. It's always impressive with digital.

All the qualities you lust for, I think the tube pre will help to bring out BEYOND your current Rotel. I have heard several Rotel combo's, possibly even your pre. They do indeed sound nice.

All I'm saying is that a guy who likes vocals and jazz should at least TRY OUT a proper tubed pre. I know that you understand better than this, but alot of guys fear that their sound will turn into mush if they have tube/tube-pre/amp.

I suspect they would also add a real immediacy through your Cantons by the sounds of it. I think your view of immediacy is emotion, which is a damn great description. I was lacking a serious chunk of my system's output before putting on those speakers.

Anyhow, I hope you don't think I'm trying to start the ol SS vs Tubes nonsense. If you were going to audition a full out pre amp with tubes, you would have to step up from that particular Grant unit, and look for something a little better to best your Rotel.

I haven't heard any Canton but after your description, I think they'll be on my list. I have no local dealer but perhaps I can head into Detroit or someplace. Be careful when comparing them to panels or electrostats, those guys just may show up at your door, prepared to hurt you. :out: lol. Which models can you suggest I look at?

OK Byron I have to head into the shower and then I'm off to your beautiful country for AKFest.

Mr Peabody
05-01-2010, 05:05 AM
The reference to Frenchmon's Canton's sounding like electrostats was in reference to how they gave sort of a 3D feel to certain midrange instruments like organ, the Canton projecting the image like it was right in the room. That's what got me interested in checking out a pair of floorstanders but none around.

frenchmon
05-01-2010, 11:04 AM
I don't know what to tell you. Clearly you've heard the awesome ability of the tubes in a pre function. It's always impressive with digital.

All the qualities you lust for, I think the tube pre will help to bring out BEYOND your current Rotel. I have heard several Rotel combo's, possibly even your pre. They do indeed sound nice.

All I'm saying is that a guy who likes vocals and jazz should at least TRY OUT a proper tubed pre. I know that you understand better than this, but alot of guys fear that their sound will turn into mush if they have tube/tube-pre/amp.

I suspect they would also add a real immediacy through your Cantons by the sounds of it. I think your view of immediacy is emotion, which is a damn great description. I was lacking a serious chunk of my system's output before putting on those speakers.

Anyhow, I hope you don't think I'm trying to start the ol SS vs Tubes nonsense. If you were going to audition a full out pre amp with tubes, you would have to step up from that particular Grant unit, and look for something a little better to best your Rotel.

I haven't heard any Canton but after your description, I think they'll be on my list. I have no local dealer but perhaps I can head into Detroit or someplace. Be careful when comparing them to panels or electrostats, those guys just may show up at your door, prepared to hurt you. :out: lol. Which models can you suggest I look at?

OK Byron I have to head into the shower and then I'm off to your beautiful country for AKFest.

Thanks for the kind reply poppaC...Yeah I think the tubed preamp is where im headed but I was looking for something soon that would feed the need for my lap top as well. Dont know when I will be able to pull the trigger on the tubed pre I really want. It was LeRoy who helped me see the need for Emotion and passion from a speaker and he was spot on...the Cantons had all of the emotion and passion and where not ho hum or boring at all. and it was MrP who helped me see that the Cantons are special...I thought it was in my head at what they could do until I took them to Peabodys and without him saying it, he confirmed everything I thought was just in my head. But they take forever to break in. They have a large dispersment of sound....and a large and wide sound stage, it is why Canton recommends no toe in with any of their speakers. When they do break in...you will be rewarded...Im a Canton fan-boy for life. But they are so Dam expensive...and im cheap! As far as the tubed thing vs SS...to me its like Chevy and Ford...subjective. But that's not to say you can't get excellent result with SS because I know we can.

frenchmon

poppachubby
05-02-2010, 02:30 AM
Thanks for the kind reply poppaC...Yeah I think the tubed preamp is where im headed but I was looking for something soon that would feed the need for my lap top as well. Dont know when I will be able to pull the trigger on the tubed pre I really want. It was LeRoy who helped me see the need for Emotion and passion from a speaker and he was spot on...the Cantons had all of the emotion and passion and where not ho hum or boring at all. and it was MrP who helped me see that the Cantons are special...I thought it was in my head at what they could do until I took them to Peabodys and without him saying it, he confirmed everything I thought was just in my head. But they take forever to break in. They have a large dispersment of sound....and a large and wide sound stage, it is why Canton recommends no toe in with any of their speakers. When they do break in...you will be rewarded...Im a Canton fan-boy for life. But they are so Dam expensive...and im cheap! As far as the tubed thing vs SS...to me its like Chevy and Ford...subjective. But that's not to say you can't get excellent result with SS because I know we can.

frenchmon

Frenchie check out my AKFest post. I was able to listen to the P-307 as a phonostage with the Opera Consanance hooked in. An amazing sound. Smooth and seamless. The thing is Byron, it was inputted through a wonderful tube integrated with audiophile tubes.

It would be a lie for me to say that didn't have alot to do with what I heard. However, the LP 6.1 table is a real high end beast and was the P307 not up to the task, it would have been evident. I think the P-307 is a great value, especially for someone like yourself who doesn't want to commit to any heavy tube sound.

I saw a few diffeent tubed CDPs. Have you thought about that route at all?

Grant has a one day special on the P307 - $300 or the TubeDAC 09 - $200. Crazy cheap, if you have cash in hand you should buy up the DAC. For that price, if you decide you don't like it, you could make money on the resale to cover your shipping and it would have cost you zero!!

http://grantfidelity.com/site/Grant_Fidelity_Tube_DAC-09

devuonoste
05-02-2010, 07:44 AM
Hey frenchmon,

I think you should check out Space Tech Lab in Vancouver, BC: http://www.space-tech-lab.com/.

The owners name is Albert and he has been helping me with my 2 channel system. He makes all of his gear, from all kinds of tube amps to speakers to tube rectifiers to CDP's,etc. His gear ranges from very affordable to fairly expensive but everything he does is hand built and he takes a lot of pride in what he does.

Albert is amazing to talk to and he will return emails ASAP and talk to you on the phone for as long as you need to get the information you are looking for. His knowledge of electronics is amazing and he can steer you in the right direction based on the current gear you have and the musical preferences you have.

He has spent hours with me going over some tube gear that will work for my 2ch setup. He is a one man show and relies on word of mouth and his website to advertise his gear. I have never seen a bad review of his gear and even his entry level tube pre-amp, at $480, is supposed to be really nice. He also builds DACs and tube buffers for CD.

Check it out and let me know what you think. He has been amazing with me and he has answered all of my questions and he seems to know the sound attributes and quality of all kinds of gear in the audio market.

I will be getting a pre-amp from him in July. I have to wait until then because he lives about 8hours from me and I don't want to ship. I will be going in July to see my sister's newborn so I can kill two birds with one stone. I am hoping to get one of his tube power amps shortly thereafter.

Hope all is well with you and Mr. P.

frenchmon
05-02-2010, 01:16 PM
Hey frenchmon,

I think you should check out Space Tech Lab in Vancouver, BC: http://www.space-tech-lab.com/.

The owners name is Albert and he has been helping me with my 2 channel system. He makes all of his gear, from all kinds of tube amps to speakers to tube rectifiers to CDP's,etc. His gear ranges from very affordable to fairly expensive but everything he does is hand built and he takes a lot of pride in what he does.

Albert is amazing to talk to and he will return emails ASAP and talk to you on the phone for as long as you need to get the information you are looking for. His knowledge of electronics is amazing and he can steer you in the right direction based on the current gear you have and the musical preferences you have.

He has spent hours with me going over some tube gear that will work for my 2ch setup. He is a one man show and relies on word of mouth and his website to advertise his gear. I have never seen a bad review of his gear and even his entry level tube pre-amp, at $480, is supposed to be really nice. He also builds DACs and tube buffers for CD.

Check it out and let me know what you think. He has been amazing with me and he has answered all of my questions and he seems to know the sound attributes and quality of all kinds of gear in the audio market.

I will be getting a pre-amp from him in July. I have to wait until then because he lives about 8hours from me and I don't want to ship. I will be going in July to see my sister's newborn so I can kill two birds with one stone. I am hoping to get one of his tube power amps shortly thereafter.

Hope all is well with you and Mr. P.

Nice to hear from you devuonoste. I will take a look at his site. I am doing well by Gods grace, and I think MrP is well also. HO wis your XRAY??? Do you still have it? Did you get it all worked out...Let us know.

frenchmon

devuonoste
05-02-2010, 01:31 PM
Hi frenchmon,

I still have my Xray but have not upgraded my 2ch system yet, as I have to wait until July before I can do some critical listening because that is when I get my tube pre-amp. I initially purchased an integrated tube amp but it had some hum issues and it wasn't the best fit for my speakers so that is what led me to Space Tech Labs.

I can't wait to get my 2ch system up and running. I think in the future I will also purchase a tube buffer for the x-ray and then my 2ch system will be complete.

Hope you and Mr. P. are enjoying your systems and I can see that Mr. P. is playing around with some different gear. My cousin has Klipsch Heresey speakers and I have always enjoyed the sound of his system.

I will let you guys know my impressions of my 2ch system, hopefully later this year.

Take Care

frenchmon
05-02-2010, 01:51 PM
Frenchie check out my AKFest post. I was able to listen to the P-307 as a phonostage with the Opera Consanance hooked in. An amazing sound. Smooth and seamless. The thing is Byron, it was inputted through a wonderful tube integrated with audiophile tubes.

It would be a lie for me to say that didn't have alot to do with what I heard. However, the LP 6.1 table is a real high end beast and was the P307 not up to the task, it would have been evident. I think the P-307 is a great value, especially for someone like yourself who doesn't want to commit to any heavy tube sound.

I saw a few diffeent tubed CDPs. Have you thought about that route at all?

Grant has a one day special on the P307 - $300 or the TubeDAC 09 - $200. Crazy cheap, if you have cash in hand you should buy up the DAC. For that price, if you decide you don't like it, you could make money on the resale to cover your shipping and it would have cost you zero!!

http://grantfidelity.com/site/Grant_Fidelity_Tube_DAC-09

I have not thought of upgrading to a tubed CDP as of yet. I keep hoping that I will find a good used X-DACv8 on audiogon with a good price. The X-DAC v8 is a tubed DAC and is made for the X-RAY CDv8. I know im going to hit the jack pot with that one. I don't really think I would want to use the P-307's DAC section as I think the X-RAY CDP would have a better DAC...but if I could use it with my lap-top and maybe just a tube buffer that would be fine.

poppachubby
05-02-2010, 03:05 PM
frenchmon, please click the link I sent you. The tubeDAC-09 can be switched to function as a pre-amp, simple jumper switch. They can do it for you before shipping. Anyhow, keep me posted if you start actively pursuing something outside of the XDAC.

frenchmon
05-03-2010, 10:23 AM
Thanks poppaC....yes i've seen that DAC as well. There is another guy who also sells that same DAC under a different name.....I saw it last week but cant remember where. I msure I will get a tubed DAC sooon....I ve got just to much music stored on my hard drive.

frenchmon

Mr Peabody
05-03-2010, 03:33 PM
You would not believe what popped up on CL last night! A set of Cornwalls. Boy, I'd like to hook them up to hear them and see how big they actually are. The guy sounds like he's all business and no playing around though. If those were on there before I bought the Forte..... I guess life will go on.

frenchmon
05-03-2010, 04:05 PM
and on and on and on....

thekid
05-04-2010, 02:23 AM
You would not believe what popped up on CL last night! A set of Cornwalls. Boy, I'd like to hook them up to hear them and see how big they actually are. The guy sounds like he's all business and no playing around though. If those were on there before I bought the Forte..... I guess life will go on.

What is he asking for the Cornwalls?
If it is a good deal I'd get the Cornwalls and flip the Forte's.

Mr Peabody
05-04-2010, 04:08 PM
He's asking $1199.00 and they are Cornwall II made between 86-90 so I'm not certain how good of a deal it is. If I got a speaker that large it would be more than a difficult fit and I'd have to commit over to them totally. That's not so big a hurdle but before jumping I'd sure like to hear them on my system first. The II's do not use titanium. I'd be more tempted if they were III's. that way a Heresy would make a great center channel. Could even rig the other Heresy as a rear center. Those Cornwalls are about 90 lbs. each.

poppachubby
05-21-2010, 03:41 AM
Mr. Peabody, last night I was at an AK member's home and heard a wonderful pair of modded K-Horns. They were visually stunning as he had found mint grills and badges, and had refinished the wooden boxes. The speakers were being driven by some fantastic Stromsburg tube gear, I forget the topology. We listened to a Pioneer PL-512/Ortofon SuperOM-20 into a DIY phono stage.

Impressive would be an understatement. Superb detail and amazing highs. Although a bit rolled off from the amp, I couldn't believe how thick and tonal they were. We threw on some rock and listened to most of a Pretenders LP, it was a real pleasure.

He rescued the speakers for $300 and presumably put as much or more into refurbing. Anyhow, I thought you would like to know that K-Horns could be a great option for your Klipsch journey.

woofersus
05-21-2010, 06:19 AM
Here's a thread from another forum with some pretty cool K-Horn restoration work:

http://horen.lifeme.net/klipsch-klipschorns-by-greg-roberts-f35/klipsch-klipschorns-restored-by-greg-roberts-t242.htm


and a bunch of crossovers he built for various Klipsch speakers too:

http://horen.lifeme.net/crossover-pictures-f37/crossovers-t250.htm



Very impressive work...

Mr Peabody
05-21-2010, 03:22 PM
Poppa, the Khorns are beasts and require more roaming room than I have but I'd love to have a pair of Cornwalls. I don't have room for them either but would figure something out.

A place in town is going to have some Palladiums in for an event coming up in June.

poppachubby
06-02-2010, 01:12 PM
Well Peabody, I may be following in your footsteps. There is a local seller who has both KG3 and KG4. Both pairs are in excellent condition. He lives out of town but has welcomed me to come and listen. I am trying to establish if the KG4 is worth the extra money. I figure my ears will end up being the best judge. They share very similar specs, with the KG4 edging out on power handling.

Anyhow, I was romancing a used pair of Dahlquist bookshelves. They are at my local shop from a trade in. I hooked them into a 35wpc Shanling and they sounded quite lovely, reminiscent of my current pair. I also have Tekton on the brain.

I think I will be going the Klipsch way. Excited actually. I love the aluminum horn of my Sound Dynamics, but the 15 is alot to push in my room. The smaller woofers sound much better.

thekid
06-02-2010, 02:28 PM
Pops

Good luck on the pursuit of the KG's! A pair comes up around here from time to time but usually at a premium price.

My daughter decided to take some summer classes so my plans for the Heresy's have been put on hold a little longer.........

Mr Peabody
06-02-2010, 02:33 PM
I'm not familiar with the KG series. Let me know how it went? There's a pair of LaScalla II for sale $1500.00 in my area. I really really wish I had the room.

Mr Peabody
06-02-2010, 02:39 PM
Kid, all the youth that drop out of school and you had to have one that wants to further their education, what's wrong with her? :) And, you paying for it just encourages her, get a grip.

RGA
06-02-2010, 06:22 PM
FWIW

I just reviewed the Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09 here http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=742

Cheers,

thekid
06-03-2010, 02:03 AM
Kid, all the youth that drop out of school and you had to have one that wants to further their education, what's wrong with her? :) And, you paying for it just encourages her, get a grip.

LOL

It gets worse..... My son just lettered in Academics in H.S. so next year I will have two of these education "free loaders" in college. I blame my wife for this because as we all know from reading my posts they could not get this whole education thingy from me.....

poppachubby
06-03-2010, 12:36 PM
It looks like I'll be picking up the KG3's in the next couple of weeks. The seller lives out of town.

IBSTORMIN
06-05-2010, 08:53 AM
3LB, any idea what would make a good center for the Forte?

Mr P, I've found for the best surround sound having all speakers the same keeps the sound from changing timbre as it moves. All I'm saying is you just need two more pairs of FORTES for 6.1! WHat are you waiting for????

Mr Peabody
06-05-2010, 01:17 PM
A couple of things, the Forte are no longer current so you can't just go out and get two more pair, easily any way, and those things aren't small either.

On the other hand the way the Heresy are short and tilted back they just fit under my TV. I also would like to get another quality listen to the RF63's. For now though I'm making it alright with the Heresy being driven by the CJ and my Dyn's driven by the HT set up. Having my sub do double duty really helped the Heresy on 2 channel.

IBSTORMIN
06-06-2010, 08:25 AM
A couple of things, the Forte are no longer current so you can't just go out and get two more pair, easily any way, and those things aren't small either.

I was kinda kidding, even though I HAVE found center channels SHOULD be the same as the side for the most realism. It would sound AWESOME.

Mr Peabody
06-06-2010, 10:48 AM
I agree with you though, after having my three front speakers match I'd never go back to a mismatched set up.

luvtolisten
06-07-2010, 04:06 AM
Mr.P, any thoughts to replacing the caps on your Forte's? It' a relatively easy and inexpensive update. I have a pair of KG2's, I did both the caps and titanium diaphragm upgrade, the caps first, then the diaphragm. The caps gave the biggest improvement. It'll sound a bit brighter at first, not harsh, but pleasant (only because the older caps may have not been function correctly) but it'll also give you more detail. More so I thought than the titanium upgrade, to my ears anyway. I realize we are talking different models, but just thru my own experience with vintage speakers, no matter the brand or model, 99% of the time you'll hear an improvement replacing the caps.I think of it more as an update than upgrade, although it could be considered both.

Mr Peabody
06-07-2010, 03:45 PM
LTL, I haven't but I will keep it in mind.