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Keithfromcanada
04-10-2010, 10:09 AM
Hello fellow Canucks!

I'm just wondering if any of you have, like me, have found it frustrating to not have direct access to some of the better internet speakers brands that are out there (e.g. Swan, Hsu, Butler, Jamo, etc...). Sure, we can drive across the border and do the declarations, taxes, brokering ourselves but it's a hassle for most of us. And if you ask them to ship to Canada, the shipping rates are often astronomical and often include brokerage fees making it impractical.

A friend and I are seriously considering trying to set-up Canadian distribution for some of the more popular brands that offer great value for the dollar (what we like to call "giant killers") but are difficult to get in Canada. This would be a 'cottage industry' (no bricks and mortar) so our overhead would be low. We would be offering the products at close to what U.S. distributors are able to sell them for but would offer significantly lower shipping costs to Canadian customers.

Are there any stories that you'd like to share about purchasing a product from the U.S.? Any thoughts about our business idea? Any suggestions on speakers that you would like to have in Canada that aren't currently viable to purchase? Remember, we only want to carry 'giant killers'.

Thanks all!

RGA
04-10-2010, 12:55 PM
I think the issue is that a lot of dealer have already carried a lot of lines - the ones that are left in Canada are the ones that people decided with their wallets should be kept. You need to determine demand - Jamo for instance was sold by London Drugs for a long time. Still may be.

When a large chain carries a line - you as a small guy - do NOT want to carry them because you never know when they will undercut you. They always can.

Small niche brands are a tougher sell. While you may like one brand - that doesn't mean anyone else will. Expensive gear generally people won't have problems paying the brokerage on. One person's giant killer is another person's ho hum. I would not for example remotely call Jamo a Giant killer - in fact they were once giants and now they're sold in drug stores.

Being from Canada - there are plenty of Canadian companies that people love and think are giant killers that most Americans have never heard of - perhaps promoting some of them might be helpful. People love Concident Technologies - I didn't really love them but others do. Space Tech Labs have a huge love fest going on and perhaps for good reason. Gershman Acoustics, Grant Fidelity etc are others.

I would just make sure there is high demand and that no one has beaten you to it.

poppachubby
04-10-2010, 02:01 PM
Hey man, speakers are the one area we rule in. Stand on guard for thee speakers bro!!

One of my faves, I own the Modular Three, reference cabinet...http://www.angstromloudspeakers.com/

kexodusc
04-10-2010, 05:53 PM
Yeah, Canada can make some good speakers...Focus Audio makes my favorite +$5000 commercial speakers ever...(though the good ones use European/Asian drivers).

RE: the speaker problem. When I lived in the US I used to buy Paradigm and PSB in Canada while visiting when the dollar was trading below $0.70 USD and flip them...Most US retailers at the time had the same MSRP but in US dollars. I think that's still true to a degree.

Electronics seem to be worse to me than speakers. Harman Kardon and PS Audio in particular last time I checked were way out of line.

canuckle
04-10-2010, 06:29 PM
And how exactly will you arrange for shipping to be cheaper? It's not a profit-industry for the manufacturer... they only pass on the costs of the shipping company.

Ajani
04-10-2010, 07:28 PM
I think the issue is that a lot of dealer have already carried a lot of lines - the ones that are left in Canada are the ones that people decided with their wallets should be kept. You need to determine demand - Jamo for instance was sold by London Drugs for a long time. Still may be.

When a large chain carries a line - you as a small guy - do NOT want to carry them because you never know when they will undercut you. They always can.

Small niche brands are a tougher sell. While you may like one brand - that doesn't mean anyone else will. Expensive gear generally people won't have problems paying the brokerage on. One person's giant killer is another person's ho hum. I would not for example remotely call Jamo a Giant killer - in fact they were once giants and now they're sold in drug stores.

Being from Canada - there are plenty of Canadian companies that people love and think are giant killers that most Americans have never heard of - perhaps promoting some of them might be helpful. People love Concident Technologies - I didn't really love them but others do. Space Tech Labs have a huge love fest going on and perhaps for good reason. Gershman Acoustics, Grant Fidelity etc are others.

I would just make sure there is high demand and that no one has beaten you to it.

I agree with RGA... The main issue to be concerned with is demand, as it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to push less well known brands if they are not in high demand...

Also, giant killer is always relative; two American brands that are regarded as giant killers by their fans are Odyssey Audio and Emotiva... But there are also many persons who will tell you that those brands are crap and that you should buy X brand instead....

Keithfromcanada
04-11-2010, 08:06 PM
Lots of patriotic responses and I respect that, I really do. That said, is it possible that people are looking through red-tinted glasses at this?

Canadian manufacturers make some great speakers, I'll be the first to admit that. But let's look at this from a consumer's point of view. I auditioned Paradigm Studio 60's at a brick and mortar outlet in Ottawa. Asking price - $1,800...and that was their 'close-out' price. I went out and purchased Swan Diva 6.1's from a U.S. distributor for around $850, all told. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would say the Diva's don't hold their own against the Studio's in a side-by-side and they do so for half the price...which makes them a 'giant killer' IMO.

Now, some people will say that the Swan's are Chinese made and therefore not comparable, a point which I would deny vehemently both because of what I've heard and the fact that virtually all Canadian speaker manufacturers are getting their components from China. With that in mind though, lets look at one of the other big Canadian speaker manufacturers - Totem. They make some awesome speakers but as many people have discovered, the drivers on their Forest line ($2.5-3K asking price) is manufactured by HiVi (Swan). A top of the line Swan Diva 6.2 runs for half the price of a Totem Forest and the sound from both speakers is comparable (to my ears at least). This, IMO, makes them a 'giant killer'.

We could also talk about subs. Many Canadian manufacturers make good subs but there are a ton that are out of reach for Canadian consumers. Hsu Research and SVS offer some great products that are very difficult for us Canucks to get our hands on and lots of people have taken the time and expense to get these shipped to them.

I wouldn't be out to try to compete directly with Canadian speaker manufacturers rather, the goal would be to offer some of the better (and often considerably less expensive) speakers or subs that us Canadians currently don't have access to.

RGA
04-11-2010, 10:26 PM
I think the premise is mistaken. To bring something in that is a giant killer may make sense - but I would hardly call Totem and Paradigm Giants or giant killers - or for that matter particularly "good" loudspeakers.

Totem is a fashion product that charges at least a 40-50% premium for nice cabinets but in every single case you give me a Totem and I will find a better sounding loudspeaker for less money. The Paradigm monitor series is ok enough for the money but the studio line IMO has gotten worse since version 2 and the prices have gone up (Dynaudio and PMC offers better similar for less money). And the Sig line? eesh - let's just quite while they're behind.

In other words finding a speaker for $700 that beats a Totem or Paradigm or B&W for that matter at $2,000 is not very difficult. The question is whether the Chinese made brands will beat some of the better known brands that veteran audiophiles know about rather than the mainstream stuff that gets lots of press but really isn't all that great.

With the Swans it's not a bad idea if there is no dealer in Canada then you could become their distributor I suppose - but wouldn't you have to get permission from Swan? And then you might have to be handling warranty issues. They do have a wide product line which dealers like I should think.

poppachubby
04-12-2010, 12:37 AM
Paradigm are like an overextended budget speaker. Did you look at the Angstrom site? You may like how they do things. Vifa drivers for one thing, which are Danish NOT Chinese.

Worf101
04-12-2010, 04:28 AM
Outside of my Ohms and Epicures/EPI's there are only two other brands of speaker in my house... ADS and Logik. Now I'd expect most folks to know who/what ADS is, great vintage speakers but Logik is another thing altogether. I've been using them as my mains in my computer room for years now. Little known Canadian mark that some have told me was a brand that was used to sell rebranded Paradigm speaks in the U.S. Here's what they look like.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Worf101/Audio%20Gear/LogikSpeaks2.jpg">

They are without a doubt "giant killer" in my book. They were bought used off the bay and have done yoeman service for about 6 years now with nary a peep. I'm not sure how much they cost or when they were made but I'd sell my left arm to get some more.

Worf

Keithfromcanada
04-12-2010, 08:31 AM
I think the premise is mistaken. To bring something in that is a giant killer may make sense - but I would hardly call Totem and Paradigm Giants or giant killers - or for that matter particularly "good" loudspeakers.

Totem is a fashion product that charges at least a 40-50% premium for nice cabinets but in every single case you give me a Totem and I will find a better sounding loudspeaker for less money. The Paradigm monitor series is ok enough for the money but the studio line IMO has gotten worse since version 2 and the prices have gone up (Dynaudio and PMC offers better similar for less money). And the Sig line? eesh - let's just quite while they're behind.

In other words finding a speaker for $700 that beats a Totem or Paradigm or B&W for that matter at $2,000 is not very difficult. The question is whether the Chinese made brands will beat some of the better known brands that veteran audiophiles know about rather than the mainstream stuff that gets lots of press but really isn't all that great.

With the Swans it's not a bad idea if there is no dealer in Canada then you could become their distributor I suppose - but wouldn't you have to get permission from Swan? And then you might have to be handling warranty issues. They do have a wide product line which dealers like I should think.

I agree with virtually everything you've said Worf but in my market (Ottawa, Ontario), if you're looking for relatively high-end speakers, Totem and Paradigm, along with a few others from Brick and Mortar outlets is what you will find. The other consideration is that many of the shops that carry 'higher-end' products are beginning to close down as they can't compete with the FS and BB's of the world. That, combined with the fact that those 'higher-end' B&M shops are asking insanely high prices for their products is what has led me to believe that there might be a niche for a cottage industry with very low overhead.

My partner and I have canvassed several manufacturers and have received positive responses from several who are interested in gaining a Canadian presence...Swan being just one of them. If there are other companies that offer very good products for a reasonable price and people want to have access to them, those are the companies that we're after. Also, if there's a Canadian company that people think is under-represented or difficult to get in Ontario, I'd love to know about them too.

Many thanks all for your responses!

Keithfromcanada
04-12-2010, 08:38 AM
Paradigm are like an overextended budget speaker. Did you look at the Angstrom site? You may like how they do things. Vifa drivers for one thing, which are Danish NOT Chinese.

I did check out the site and I've heard of those speakers. Unfortunately, Markham is very near our area and the last thing I want to try to do is step on the toes of an existing B&M.