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magictooth
04-01-2004, 12:39 PM
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1085902719

I'm waiting for the DAC 1.1x to arrive and see how it sounds. It'll be the first AN product that I've tried. Maybe I should've saved up a bit more coin and gotten this one instead.

magictooth
04-01-2004, 12:40 PM
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1085902719

I'm waiting for the DAC 1.1x to arrive and see how it sounds. It'll be the first AN product that I've tried. Maybe I should've saved up a bit more coin and gotten this one instead.

Mods, if you're out there, you can move this thread to the right place.

RGA
04-01-2004, 11:08 PM
Actually that link goes to an Audio Japan DAC. Peter Qvortrup and Kondo an ex Sony Corp chief designer formed Audio note as a partnership - had a falling out and parted ways. Even thoughboth companies have the same name they are now totally separate companies...and both have their die-hard supporters. Audio Note UK began making more affordable pieces.

I may be wrong but you have to be very careful with the impedance matching of the DAC 1.1 with the preamp you connect it to.

"Yet, the DAC 1.1's design isn't entirely without vices. For starters, the output impedance from that tiny triode is a staggering 6.3kOhms, according to the manual (3.2kOhms according to Peter Qvortrup, which still is high). Further, the output coupling capacitor is a mere 0.47uF. Together these characteristics demand that the DAC always see an input impedance of over 100kOhms. Go too low with impedance, and curtailed bass, excess phase shift in the lower registers, squashed dynamics, and distortion are your share. So careful system matching will be your part, if you want to make the most of this convertor. Tube preamps tend to be fine, but many transistor inputs can go as low as 10kOhms, which would mean murder in this case!

system matching come into play. Yet, as I heard it, I would give the edge to the Audio Note DAC Kit 1.1: it sounds lively, is well-built, and offers the jaded DIYer enough room for further experiments!"

This sounds scarier than it is because people are using this DAC with Solid state amplifiers - but SOME solid state amplifiers no doubt wouldn't like it.http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/audionote11kit_e.html

I would post your system on the tube or digital forum at audioasylum. If you have a tube amp then chances are you have nothing to worry about. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/bbs.html

RGA
04-01-2004, 11:11 PM
BTW
I'm looking at this unit myself but it's a down the road item. I'm looking at their preamps and integrateds - so I'm working from speakers backwards.

magictooth
04-02-2004, 07:47 AM
BTW
I'm looking at this unit myself but it's a down the road item. I'm looking at their preamps and integrateds - so I'm working from speakers backwards.
I'm going to be using it with an Audiomat Solfege Reference integrated. This is a 40W tube amp. Maybe I'll give it a try through my HT setup as well to see if there's any major difference (SS Audio Refinement by YBA amp).

BTW, have you heard the direct comparison of Tannoy to AN? I've only heard them in separate places and rooms which I know is an unfair comparison, but I prefered the Tannoy for violin music - which is my especial concern.

RGA
04-02-2004, 12:09 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Tannoy...but it would depend on which model from both companies we're talking about. I did not do a direct comparison because Tannoy didn't make my final cut. Tannoy is using metal tweeter on some speakers now I believe and are not their concentric designs.

Audio Note speakers are designed around classical music dynamic reproduction. That's not to say people won't like another speaker better. It's not like Tannoy doesn't know how to build speakers.

THough I did extensive listening to the Platoon theme(barber no?) and the K's produced the violin as good as it's been done imo. The seeling point was on the cello...you can here the cello box itself not just the strings like almost all slim line speakers that have the attack but not the decay.

I actually used the Audio refinement Complete for my initial tests because I needed something that wold drive the B&W N805 - and I wanted the same equipment in the same room to keep things fair - even the the AR would not be the best match for the AN's...still a damn nice match because YBA has a more than a clue what their doing.

The Audio Note's highs are less exagerated without a trace of grain - in a short A/b test I would surmise the B&W 805 would score higher because of the zing factor. After 20 minutes it was clear to me who was king.

Debbi
04-02-2004, 02:42 PM
...audio note speakers....are they strictly mail order?

92135011
04-02-2004, 03:14 PM
I'm not RGA..but I can probably answer the question.
AN are not mail order. You can, however, buy kits from them to make your own speaker. (AN/E) Keep in mind though, that they do not include parts for the cabinet. Onlly a blueprint of the box design will be given to you. The kits can be bought over mail order.
Otherwise, you must go to a dealer. The AN website, www.audionote.co.uk, has a list of North American dealers. However, the list is small. There isnt even an average of one dealer a state.
Of course, it is always better to go have a listen to them before you attempt the kit. You can purchase the kits at www.audionotekits.com. Keep in mind, however, that these kits are shipped from the UK. So the price you see will have taxes and duties added on, and these can range from 20% all the way up to 50%, so be careful. If you can wait, www.partsconnexion.com will soon sell these kits to the public. Once again, this is not a US site. The company resides in Canada, so taxes and duties might once again be applied. Be careful.

magictooth
04-03-2004, 03:37 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Tannoy...but it would depend on which model from both companies we're talking about. I did not do a direct comparison because Tannoy didn't make my final cut. Tannoy is using metal tweeter on some speakers now I believe and are not their concentric designs.

Audio Note speakers are designed around classical music dynamic reproduction. That's not to say people won't like another speaker better. It's not like Tannoy doesn't know how to build speakers.

THough I did extensive listening to the Platoon theme(barber no?) and the K's produced the violin as good as it's been done imo. The seeling point was on the cello...you can here the cello box itself not just the strings like almost all slim line speakers that have the attack but not the decay.

I actually used the Audio refinement Complete for my initial tests because I needed something that wold drive the B&W N805 - and I wanted the same equipment in the same room to keep things fair - even the the AR would not be the best match for the AN's...still a damn nice match because YBA has a more than a clue what their doing.

The Audio Note's highs are less exagerated without a trace of grain - in a short A/b test I would surmise the B&W 805 would score higher because of the zing factor. After 20 minutes it was clear to me who was king.

Just curious, did you listen to the Tannoy speakers or did you not listen because of the metal tweeters? Platoon has the Barber selection. Good cello and big low string sound. When I listen, though, it's mostly for the violin. I'm usually listening for the bowing technique - whether you can tell up or down (easy to tell on the right speaker), close to the heel (easy), smoothness of the stroke (medium), distance from the bridge (difficult) as well as some more violin specific characteristics such as fingering and proper separation of each note.

I agree with the AR analysis. The Multi-5 is competent, but not quite stellar performer, but for HT purposes, you're not looking to extract every last possible detail.

RGA
04-03-2004, 06:25 PM
Which Tannoy are you asking about? I have heard their big $14k Cdn model(Winchester?) and many of their concentric designs none of which I personally liked in the mid 1990s. I did like a recent cheap standmount - nothing though in the $2k range.

Audio Note needs to be heavily toed in so that in the listening position you can see the outside of the speaker's boxes...otherwise you won't get as precise soundstaging as some other designs...even without that though they are more organic sounding than ANY slim line desigmned boxed speaker I have ever heard at any price. Will EVERYONE feel that way? Of course not...but even my AN dealer didn't set the speakers up correctly...and even NOT at their best they still beat the others - which were set up correctly because I knew the other speakers well and AN was new to me so I assumed they new what they were doing. But because they are different than all other speakers with regard to set-up dealers are not as up-to speed. Indeed, if you read the hi-fi choice review of the AN E/D you'll note they recommend the speaker and even they set them up not in their ideal location.

The speaker is VERY friendly to rooms all that being said because they have an organinc non-fatiguing presentation, but soundstaging correctness and bass depth require trial and error. Indeed, the reviews note that as a weakness they tend to have simplistic soundstaging. I'm not sure I agree. Rather than make every singer on every disc dead center I have many discs that have singers who are center left or center right farther back right up front far left or far right. Same speakers same location...which speakers are being truthful? Simple? No I believe more complex than many.

The speakers also need to be tilted back...something when I auditioned them was not done because they were on Skylan stands not Audio Note Stands. Not a big deal but the soundstage on my stands have voices coming out of the bottom of the TV...or very low - Tilting them back the stage is placed about 2-4 feet above the top of the speakers where they should be...but there is a reason why Audio Note designs the entire system from front end to back end including their own soldering materials - strictly speaking Audio Note SHOULD be a complete system with no mixing of other gear. I use Skylan but dug the back spikes in to have the front on a bit of a rise while still maintaining the rigidity.

Again no speaker is going to be perfect which is why there is an upgrade path. I know for instance that the AN designers is not as happy with the rubber seals around the AN K's drivers.

As for metal - driver integration is where I agree with the AN approach...:

"2.) The choice of complimentary sounding drivers, i. e. the drivers have the same sonic signature across the band, so when the sound of an instrument travels from bottom to top it retains its characteristics. This is an area most sadly neglected by speaker designers these days."

It follows that a metal tweeter and polypropolene or other driver are not remotely close. I have not heard a metal tweeter speaker at any price that has done this the way I would like. For instance the JM Labs Mezza Utopia - over 20K Cdn was a very good speaker with a very controlled tweeter smooth detailed not harsh etc, but I also noticed the tweeter if you get my meaning. Same with the B&W N801/N802. These two companies do the tweeter thing as good as anyone.

Now Yes I would take any of those three over my AN K because they do other things that are simply outstanding...over the AN E/Sec? Nope. I would like to hear the AN K SE with the Sub Audio Note is working on which will be, if it ever comes to fruition, a tube powered sub no less.