Power cables??

[madmax123]

Is it really worth changing the power cables out of my system? Receiver? Sub? Dvr? PS3?
If so what am i looking for if I do in a home theater system? I see alot of threads that it does nothing for your system but wasted money. I always thought put the money into your gear and just use the power cords that came with them???

[Hyfi]

Is it really worth changing the power cables out of my system? Receiver? Sub? Dvr? PS3?
If so what am i looking for if I do in a home theater system? I see alot of threads that it does nothing for your system but wasted money. I always thought put the money into your gear and just use the power cords that came with them???

Depends on your electricity, gear, and hearing.
Audio Adviser has some inexpensive ones that you can try. If you think it improved things, go for a better one.

Start out with a dedicated circuit just for your gear. Add a Breaker, line, and a quad box or wall box with a few hospital grade outlets.

Then add an APC surge/filter/conditioner or similar Furman, PS Audio.... and you will hear a clear difference.

Now mess with power cables if you still think you need to.

Just my opinion, you may get different options from others here.

[audio101]

Try a pangea Ac-9 on your Yamaha and let it breakin for little time before the 30 day return listen to music you are familar with, if you like what it does then go from there once convinced then readress the rest of your power chain .I like to say now after 24yrs if I had to do it all again I would do power first!:14:

[Mr Peabody]

I have had good results with upgrading power cables. Whether it would be worth putting a power cable that costs around 1/4 the price of the receiver I'm not sure about. Did you have improvement when placing the Monster in to service? Also, how many of your power cords are really detachable? You may be better off using the multi outlet approach and waiting on power cables. Not trying to be a snob just trying to be realistic and thinking of where your money would be better placed in the system. If your receiver does allow for detaching the cord and your local shop will lend you a cord or allow a return by all means give it a shot to see what happens. Generally, the main benefit is a quieter, darker background which allows you to hear more subtle detail. Not putting any one's equipment down but generally receivers don't allow for this level of critical listening. However, picture quality can improve but usually a TV will have to go into a multi outlet solution. You might take a look at the PS Audio Quintet or the four outlet version.

[audio101]

I agree the Quintet has very good isolation between analog and digital, my Tv had a very nice 3-d look and deeper blacks and better color saturation upgraded from a monster 2500 mk2. On the audio side noise floor droped considerably. Mr Peabody did you change your stockcord on your Quintet ? If so to what? as this takes it to a whole nother level.

[poppachubby]

Real:

AC is very noisy. Anyone with electronics knowledge will attest to this. A good friend of mine went to school for electrical, and studied this fact. He has given me the suggestion of shielding everything I have with tin foil. Uhhhh, think I'll pass...

Imagined:

Power cables and conditioners will drastically change things. Sure, there's improvements to be had. BUT....so much has to be done before you can realise them. A pile of questionable gear that's not resolute, will most likely not reveal much with a cord upgrade.

IMO, your chain must be synergistic with components correctly isolated. All noise must be absent at this point. Digital and analog must be seperated. As Hy-Fi mentioned, I also have a dedicated line for each. Once these steps are taken, with the right gear, you can bring that last bit of haze off of the music, and reveal the last details in the recording.

Takes alot more work than a simple upgrade with a power cord.

[Feanor]

Is it really worth changing the power cables out of my system? Receiver? Sub? Dvr? PS3?
If so what am i looking for if I do in a home theater system? I see alot of threads that it does nothing for your system but wasted money. I always thought put the money into your gear and just use the power cords that came with them???
I think it depends on your environment. Noisy mains are a problem plus electromagnetic and radio frequency interference (EMI/RFI) affects, and is also generated by, some components, especially digital components an switching ("class D") amps. Its a good idea to isolate them from each other

A fancy power by itself won't help with noisy AC input at all. Instead, get a surge protector with multiple banks isolated from each other for RFI, such as this (http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=74&EID=345&txtModelID=111) Tripp Lite Isobar model ...

http://www.tripplite.com/shared/product-images/med/ISOBAR8ULTRA-FRONT-M.jpg

Lower frequency RFI, (sub-gigahertz), can be effectively blocked by a cheap ferrite choke such as this (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-454) one from Parts Express; put one around the component-end, or both ends, of each power cord ...

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/110-454_s.jpg

You can also create a cheap but effective EMI/RFI filter by jumping the AC live/neutral lines on output or input with a suitable capacitor -- see this (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=320504#poststop) suggestion from Glen B ... http://forums.audioreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6765&stc=1&d=1268330739

Try these cheaper options before sinking serious money into expensive power conditioners and PCs.

[pdhanwada]

Poppachubby

You said

"As Hy-Fi mentioned, I also have a dedicated line for each."

I run the AMP,preamp, cd player, subwoofer from single line output into a stepdown transformer. The output of a stepdown transformer is 110v connected to a surge protector into which all my equipment is plugged in.

I running my equipment in india. Here Mains voltage is 220 v. I need to run thru a step down transformer before I can plug my equipment in. Do you see any problem here.

Thanks
Pandu

[Feanor]

Poppachubby

You said

"As Hy-Fi mentioned, I also have a dedicated line for each."

I run the AMP,preamp, cd player, subwoofer from single line output into a stepdown transformer. The output of a stepdown transformer is 110v connected to a surge protector into which all my equipment is plugged in.

I running my equipment in india. Here Mains voltage is 220 v. I need to run thru a step down transformer before I can plug my equipment in. Do you see any problem here.

Thanks
Pandu
I'd like to suggest that dedicated lines are unnecessary unless you're running very high-powered equipment. Of course your step-down transformer needs to be of sufficient volts VA capacity to power all your equipment.

However, I also suggest that you isolate your EMI/RIF sensitive components from each other as I suggested above

[Hyfi]

I'd like to suggest that dedicated lines are unnecessary unless you're running very high-powered equipment. Of course your step-down transformer needs to be of sufficient volts VA capacity to power all your equipment.

However, I also suggest that you isolate your EMI/RIF sensitive components from each other as I suggested above

If your gear is on a circuit with fluorescent lighting, you will surely notice it. Why would you want other stuff on your Audio circuit?

[poppachubby]

I mean dedicated lines from your electrical box. I have one line for analog and one for digital. What do you suppose the purpose of most conditioning equipment is for? To prevent cross contamination of sources and lines.

[Feanor]

If your gear is on a circuit with fluorescent lighting, you will surely notice it. Why would you want other stuff on your Audio circuit?
Dedicate circuits are always a good thing but are can be an expensive option.

Regardless, it is always desirable to put EMI/RFI traps not only between analog and digital but also between each digital component

[E-Stat]

Is it really worth changing the power cables out of my system?
First of all, I think it is important to understand the nature of problems to be addressed. The instantaneous (vs steady state) demands of dynamic music can empty the filter banks of many an amplifier. The difference in capacity as measured in joules between most amps and the very best in my experience is significant.

The more prevalent issue has to do with AC line noise. Despite the "after miles and miles" argument about your local power station, the villains live in your very house. Most modern homes have any number of computerized devices with switching power supplies that happily spew all sorts of hash back into the line. As mentioned by others, the three strategies to address that problem are : isolated circuits, power conditioners and power cords. In a perfect world, amplification and sources would be isolated from any digital device or any using a switching power supply. I use three different lines in my music room, partly for current delivery and partly for isolation. Conditioners can effectively trap a range of RF garbage, but most are not optimum for high current devices. There are exceptions, but they tend to be pricey.

From the outset, I would suggest running your sources (cable box, TiVo, DVD/BR player) through a conditioner to isolate their bad behavior from the AC line. Your receiver would be best sourced with a dedicated line. Especially if that is not practical, then I would recommend auditioning a modestly priced, but shielded cord there.

Finally, what is the audible difference? For me, all sorts of RF manifest themselves as a false added brightness to the signal. That noise masks underlying detail. For most HT content, I think the difference is less noticeable than for dynamic music.

Good luck in your search.

rw

[E-Stat]

Dedicate circuits are always a good thing but are can be an expensive option.
Depending upon the location, true. I had a devil of a time finding an electrician who could successfully add two lines to my music room which is really an upstairs bedroom. The first one said it could not be done: the fire breaks in the wall prevented him from drilling down from the attic and he could not figure out another access point. A second one approached the problem differently, but required cutting some sections out of the wall to complete the job-which required some drywall repair and painting. Cost? $800 for adding two dedicated 20 amp lines to the breaker box. I found it worth the effort sonically.

Having said that, the HT receiver is not current starved as were the tube amps. I use a basic Monster HTS-1000 on the sources and use a modest Belden 19364 based cord with the NAD T763.

rw

[Mr Peabody]

A101, I have not upgraded the Quintet power cord. I figured it's a conditioner why would it need an upgraded cord. PSA suggests it but I thought they were just trying to sell another cord. I will give it a try.

[audio101]

Prepare to be amazed this will affect the sound of the entire system , good thing is you can use the stock as a reference point. Use the biggest and best you can afford ! maybe a good time to try a Pangea ac9 if you like what it does buy better. and send it back or keep it , either way it will be better than the stock, let us know the results.

[Hyfi]

Depending upon the location, true. I had a devil of a time finding an electrician who could successfully add two lines to my music room which is really an upstairs bedroom. The first one said it could not be done: the fire breaks in the wall prevented him from drilling down from the attic and he could not figure out another access point. A second one approached the problem differently, but required cutting some sections out of the wall to complete the job-which required some drywall repair and painting. Cost? $800 for adding two dedicated 20 amp lines to the breaker box. I found it worth the effort sonically.

Having said that, the HT receiver is not current starved as were the tube amps. I use a basic Monster HTS-1000 on the sources and use a modest Belden 19364 based cord with the NAD T763.

rw

Luckily, I was able to do all the work myself and it cost less than $100 for the wire, breaker, outlets, and box. I did have fun fishing it across the garage attic, down a wall into the crawl space, and then back up through the floor of my livingroom, but I was able to do it all.

[E-Stat]

Luckily, I was able to do all the work myself and it cost less than $100 for the wire, breaker, outlets, and box.
Good deal!

rw

[Mr Peabody]

Instead of all that crawling and fishing couldn't I just use one of those 50' orange extension cords from Home Depo?

[poppachubby]

Instead of all that crawling and fishing couldn't I just use one of those 50' orange extension cords from Home Depo?

We're talking about source power Peabody. A 50' extension will probably create more problems than solve. At least one dedicated line, with proper component organization will do everything you need it to. Very cheap and simple, but you must have a space available in your box. I am using the original line for analog and the new line for digital. I upgraded the outlets, although not hospital grade.

[Hyfi]

Instead of all that crawling and fishing couldn't I just use one of those 50' orange extension cords from Home Depo?

As long as it's 9guage

But what end would you plug into the breaker?

[Mr Peabody]

Maybe just snip off the male end. Oooo, that sentence makes you cringe, doesn't it? Hyfi, how do you think that orange cord would work for speaker wire? I bet that would get some interesting comments from people visiting :)

[E-Stat]

how do you think that orange cord would work for speaker wire?
With a DC in the threes, it certainly won't get much enthusiasm from those who know better.

rw

[poppachubby]

Maybe just snip off the male end. Oooo, that sentence makes you cringe, doesn't it? Hyfi, how do you think that orange cord would work for speaker wire? I bet that would get some interesting comments from people visiting :)


For your consideration Peabody...

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html

and

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine_2.html

[Ajani]

For your consideration Peabody...

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html

and

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine_2.html

Hmmm... truly interesting that an extension cord would make great sounding speaker cables and interconnects but a poor sounding power cord.....

[Mr Peabody]

Yeah, but Ajani I would use the orange ones. You know construction cones are orange.

[atomicAdam]

A101, I have not upgraded the Quintet power cord. I figured it's a conditioner why would it need an upgraded cord. PSA suggests it but I thought they were just trying to sell another cord. I will give it a try.


I've run the Quintet I am reviewing with the Granite Audio #560 and it made a slight noticeable difference with the AVA gear I have, which comes with power cords built in. HAHA! beat that Frank. Nah, just playing, just wanted to see if I could hear a difference. And yes, I could. The bass beefed up, beats were a bit punchier and I think there was a bit more detail, but I can't remember. I am for sure certain that the bass improved though.

So to recap - that is - wall socket -> GA#560 -> PSAudio Quintet -> AVA pre & amp which have built in cords that are very thin.

[audio101]

I've run the Quintet I am reviewing with the Granite Audio #560 and it made a slight noticeable difference with the AVA gear I have, which comes with power cords built in. HAHA! beat that Frank. Nah, just playing, just wanted to see if I could hear a difference. And yes, I could. The bass beefed up, beats were a bit punchier and I think there was a bit more detail, but I can't remember. I am for sure certain that the bass improved though.

So to recap - that is - wall socket -> GA#560 -> PSAudio Quintet -> AVA pre & amp which have built in cords that are very thin.
The trickle down effect is fantastic, there is not really much differnce from the PC's after you put your best at the conditioner, what recepticals do you use? I changed my 6.95 home depots out for the Power port premier and heard lower noise and more sound stage dept and what seems to be effort less dynamics. Video is a whloe story to it self, still cant get over the picture qaulity.:eek6:

[poppachubby]

So to recap - that is - wall socket -> GA#560 -> PSAudio Quintet -> AVA pre & amp which have built in cords that are very thin.

I'm surprised the AVA gear has cords hard wired on.

[Mr Peabody]

I do intend to put a power cord with the Quintet soon. Those Power Ports I need worse. Time to get an order together.

[Ajani]

Yeah, but Ajani I would use the orange ones. You know construction cones are orange.

Good point, the orange ones would likely make better power cords, while the white ones are best for speaker cables and interconnects...

[atomicAdam]

The trickle down effect is fantastic, there is not really much differnce from the PC's after you put your best at the conditioner, what recepticals do you use? I changed my 6.95 home depots out for the Power port premier and heard lower noise and more sound stage dept and what seems to be effort less dynamics. Video is a whloe story to it self, still cant get over the picture qaulity.:eek6:

Yeah I heard similar good things about the power port premier. Those things r only $100, right? Might be a great investment.

[atomicAdam]

I'm surprised the AVA gear has cords hard wired on.

Yes, so was I.

[audio101]

Yeah I heard similar good things about the power port premier. Those things r only $100, right? Might be a great investment.
Got mine at music direct they let me have it for 84.00, just ask they may give you a discount, or mabe it was because I ordered the Quintet and Soloist Premier along with it overall I saved 10% on everything.The construction is similar to the well regarded R-1 without the high price tag and better lows from what I hear. Face off is needed between the two.