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barbarian
03-27-2010, 05:06 AM
Hello. This is my first post and I have a few questions.

I have a belt drive SL-20 technics with a large vinyl collection. Currently I am using a cheap Memorex preamp (Best Buy) connected to a computer speaker system. I want to get a descent receiver with speakers to fully enjoy my vinyl. I would also like a new preamp.

I have an HD television and a Playstation 3, so would like a receiver with HDMI, but I am wondering if it would be better to just buy a receiver and speaker system for my turn table and then worry about the high definition components during a later purchase.

I am transitioning into my second year of medical school, so I do not have much time or money, hence my budget is not very high; I'd say about $500. Let me know if this is an unreasonable budget and then I may change it.

Thank you for your future replies.

poppachubby
03-27-2010, 06:29 AM
Welcome to AR!

I would say most here prefer to keep H/T and 2 channel seperate. If you are indeed able to buy some H/T gear at a later time, go that route and focus on the TT for now. You're just using the TV's speakers for now, or is that hooked into the comp speakers too?

Staying with the 2 channel route...

There's two ways you can go, you can try and find an amp, new or used, with a phono stage built in already. You could also buy something and add an external stage to it. The latter will require more money. Many guys here will have a host of solutions but my gut says to find a quality used amp/receiver with a built in phono stage and spend the rest of your budget on some decent speakers.

Where are you located? Let me know and we can search locally to you for something. Generally, there are some nice vintage amps up for grabs which will give you a nice foot into high fidelity. Are you familiar with Marantz? As an example, you could find yourself a decent Marantz with a built in phono stage for $75 - 100.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2440046675_622de8a89d.jpg


You could still opt for an external phono stage to increase the quality, www.needledoctor.com has a superb sale on an Audio Technica stage for $40 right now.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Needle-Doctor-Phono-Preamps-and-Stereo-Phono-Preamps-1-800-229-0644-Audio-Technica-PEQ3-Phono-Preamp;jsessionid=0a0104451f43ad49181830894b9b9b60 90c50918f79b.e3eSbNmQaheLe3mLa40?sc=12&category=-112

http://www.turntablelab.com/images/content/6/5/65706.jpg

So let's figure you now have spent $140, you have $360 left for some reasonable speakers. This is important and most will agree you should try and focus most of a budget on speakers. Needle Doctor also has a highly regarded pair of Mordaunt Short 902i on sale for $225, great deal.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Mordaunt-Short-Avant-Honey-Maple-902i-bookshlef-loudspeakers;jsessionid=0a0104451f43ad49181830894b 9b9b6090c50918f79b.e3eSbNmQaheLe3mLa40?sc=12&category=-112

http://www.laserlinehifi.co.uk/images/xosc_l_902ibig.jpg

So with shipping that will come in a bit under $300 I presume. Your budget is now at $440. In this instance, since you're shopping at Needle Doctor, you could use the balance to grab an accessory for you table or maybe just hit the local shop for some tasty new vinyl.

There's a few different routes you can take to get your outcome. This is just an example to show you that you have enough cash to set up a fine analog rig. get back to me with your location...

JoeE SP9
03-27-2010, 08:15 AM
Welcome to AR barbarian. PC has given you some (IMO) good advice.

02audionoob
03-27-2010, 08:21 AM
Welcome to AR...and don't forget to consider the turntable and cartridge in your plans. I don't mean any disrespect to your current turntable, but there are better options.

barbarian
03-28-2010, 05:03 AM
poppachubby, I appreciate the quality response you have provided. I am currently living in Cherry Hill, NJ, about 15 minutes outside Philadelphia. I am wondering what your opinion is about the Tech SL-20. I understand it is not the champion of TTs; but should I allocate some of my budget in pursuit of a first-class TT? What about a cartridge? I have included two photographs. Thank you once again for your sterling advice.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S69TSXev2QI/AAAAAAAABe0/t5p8yye5doM/s720/IMG_2866.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S69TTERt_gI/AAAAAAAABe4/j21Hz03U-HU/s720/IMG_2870.jpg

basite
03-28-2010, 05:52 AM
Welcome to AR!

I would say most here prefer to keep H/T and 2 channel seperate. If you are indeed able to buy some H/T gear at a later time, go that route and focus on the TT for now. You're just using the TV's speakers for now, or is that hooked into the comp speakers too?

Staying with the 2 channel route...

There's two ways you can go, you can try and find an amp, new or used, with a phono stage built in already. You could also buy something and add an external stage to it. The latter will require more money. Many guys here will have a host of solutions but my gut says to find a quality used amp/receiver with a built in phono stage and spend the rest of your budget on some decent speakers.

Where are you located? Let me know and we can search locally to you for something. Generally, there are some nice vintage amps up for grabs which will give you a nice foot into high fidelity. Are you familiar with Marantz? As an example, you could find yourself a decent Marantz with a built in phono stage for $75 - 100.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2440046675_622de8a89d.jpg



Yes, absolutely Yes.
in fact, I just found (literally, found it on a recycling park, so it even was free) a vintage Luxman R-800 receiver, which was their top of the line receiver when it came out int 74.
works perfectly, only replaced the bulbs, this thing puts many modern receivers to shame.
currently using it as my 'radio amp', driving 2 advent speakers...

you can sometimes find good things on garage sales, pawn shops, ... ebay, craiglist, "the neighbor that accidentally happens to have this 'old worthless stereo gear' that he wants to get rid of, and that happens to be better than he originally thought" (happens to me a lot :D)

and on the phono stage, a good vintage receiver has a good phonostage, the one in my luxman is excellent, and definitely better than my pro-ject phonobox, which costs $100, so you can even save on that too...

For speakers, there is lot out there too, if you decide to go used there too, definitely check ebay and others for Large Advents, they never disappointed me :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

poppachubby
03-28-2010, 06:18 AM
poppachubby, I appreciate the quality response you have provided. I am currently living in Cherry Hill, NJ, about 15 minutes outside Philadelphia. I am wondering what your opinion is about the Tech SL-20. I understand it is not the champion of TTs; but should I allocate some of my budget in pursuit of a first-class TT? What about a cartridge? I have included two photographs. Thank you once again for your sterling advice.



Hey barbarian. No sweat with the advice. Keep in mind any of the guys here would have done the same, I just saw you first. There is a small but dedicated analog community here at AR. The other great thing about "us", is there is a great range of tables and gear.

I purposely avoided discussion about your table. As far as Technics go, it's not a revered model. Personally I would stay away from anything belt driven from Technics. Their niche has always been direct drive technology, and they do it fantastically. I personally own an SL-Q2 which I use in my computer system. It's inputted into my soundcard, and comes out of my DAC into my amp. I use it to listen and rip LP's. It's speed stability is why I love it.

If we are going to look at your turntable also, it's going to change the dynamic of your spending ability. As much as I don't care for your table, or cart for that matter, is it functioning properly? Does it hold it's speed (for the most part)? We could leave it alone and keep the focus on everything else. Then upgrade later. I wouldn't be able to live with that table, but it's you who must make the call.

The reality is, you could probably buy a used TT to better this one, for around $50. The cart is another matter, you'll be into at least $75....BUT..you'll be rewarded greatly.

If you are inexperienced with speakers, I wouldn't suggest buying used. We can give you some solid buyer's advice, but I think this is one area you may want to consider buying new.

I'm going to look at the Philly CL now. BTW, JoeESP9 is from Philly also. He posted in this thread. He could be helpful here. I'm thinking he could help you with the speaker end of things. Maybe some local shops, etc.

poppachubby
03-28-2010, 06:44 AM
This guy is selling a couple of wonderful amps. See if he will sell you just one, and for how much. With either of these, you could skip the external phono stage and just plug into the amp. The 2250B is a powerful and dynamic performer.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ele/1648995470.html

And another beauty...
http://reading.craigslist.org/ele/1658258410.html




Here's an old TT that would easily outperform your Technics. You could probably offer less than $50 and with a bit of love, you're gold. I am spinning with a similar type of table right now.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ele/1627493305.html



I own this exact model, really nice little performer for the price...
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/1647976308.html


Start with these barbarian. Let me know which way you want to go. If you want to get a TT also or not. From these results, jump on the 2230B for $100 and the Pioneer PL-516. We can discuss speakers once we know how much of your budget will be available. BTW, don't lowball but offer a bit less in each case. I have to say, the 2230B is worth the price if it's fully functional and clean, which it appears to be.

barbarian
03-28-2010, 08:42 AM
Thank you all for joining the discussion.

I am on my way to the Berlin Farmer's Flea Market right now as well as some thrift stores with all of your suggestions in mind. Maybe I will find some treasures.

poppachubby thank you again for taking the time to research CL listings; I will definitely email about the Marantz 2230b and hope to get a positive reply. I will let you know once I have a descent receiver + TT. Which cart do you recommend at this time?

Thanks again!

02audionoob
03-28-2010, 08:58 AM
I'll be a dissenting voice. On such a tight budget, I'd start with the HDMI receiver and a pair of bookshelf speakers. Something like the Onkyo TX-SR507 (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR507BLK/Onkyo/Tx-sr507-5.1-channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html)and the Mordaunt Short speakers would get you going, within the budget, and you'd be maximizing features like HDMI. As money allows, you could add speakers and upgrade.

My first path of upgrade from there would probably be a cartridge like the Shure M97XE, Audio-Technica AT95E or Nagaoka MP-11 and perhaps the AT phono preamp...although I would probably be more inclined to hold out for a Cambridge Audio 640P or Musical Fidelity V-LPS. That's not to mention the turntable...which holds a vast array of options on the used market...too many to mention.

poppachubby
03-28-2010, 10:44 AM
I'll be a dissenting voice. On such a tight budget, I'd start with the HDMI receiver and a pair of bookshelf speakers. Something like the Onkyo TX-SR507 (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR507BLK/Onkyo/Tx-sr507-5.1-channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html)and the Mordaunt Short speakers would get you going, within the budget, and you'd be maximizing features like HDMI. As money allows, you could add speakers and upgrade.

My first path of upgrade from there would probably be a cartridge like the Shure M97XE, Audio-Technica AT95E or Nagaoka MP-11 and perhaps the AT phono preamp...although I would probably be more inclined to hold out for a Cambridge Audio 640P or Musical Fidelity V-LPS. That's not to mention the turntable...which holds a vast array of options on the used market...too many to mention.


Good advice. It's a tough line to tow when H/T and 2 channel are both involved. Mix in a small budget and it gets a bit hazy.

barbarian I like audionoob's route, again you must decide where the priorities lie, and we can help with the details.

I like noob's short list of carts. I would add the Ortofon OMB-10 which is very affordable quality. It also has an upgradable stylus (needle) so the fidelity can be further improved.

JoeE SP9
03-28-2010, 12:04 PM
Thank you all for joining the discussion.

I am on my way to the Berlin Farmer's Flea Market right now as well as some thrift stores with all of your suggestions in mind. Maybe I will find some treasures.

poppachubby thank you again for taking the time to research CL listings; I will definitely email about the Marantz 2230b and hope to get a positive reply. I will let you know once I have a descent receiver + TT. Which cart do you recommend at this time?

Thanks again!

As PC said I live in Phila. You don't have enough posts to receive PM's yet. As soon as you do, expect one from me. I think the magic number is 5.

basite
03-28-2010, 02:15 PM
I'll be a dissenting voice. On such a tight budget, I'd start with the HDMI receiver and a pair of bookshelf speakers. Something like the Onkyo TX-SR507 (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR507BLK/Onkyo/Tx-sr507-5.1-channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html)and the Mordaunt Short speakers would get you going, within the budget, and you'd be maximizing features like HDMI. As money allows, you could add speakers and upgrade.

My first path of upgrade from there would probably be a cartridge like the Shure M97XE, Audio-Technica AT95E or Nagaoka MP-11 and perhaps the AT phono preamp...although I would probably be more inclined to hold out for a Cambridge Audio 640P or Musical Fidelity V-LPS. That's not to mention the turntable...which holds a vast array of options on the used market...too many to mention.


yes, true,

but a marantz 2230 will sound many many times better than the onky ever will, it will most likely run longer, and could be sold again without losing any value (in the contrary, actually).
that, and there's no need for a phono preamp, so that saves money again. in the meanwhile, he could save on, and get a somewhat more decent HT amp...

my money would go to the marantz - no doubt.

just my 2 cents...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

02audionoob
03-28-2010, 02:30 PM
yes, true,

but a marantz 2230 will sound many many times better than the onky ever will, it will most likely run longer, and could be sold again without losing any value (in the contrary, actually).
that, and there's no need for a phono preamp, so that saves money again. in the meanwhile, he could save on, and get a somewhat more decent HT amp...

my money would go to the marantz - no doubt.

just my 2 cents...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

I still definitely disagree...100%. The 2230 will not, in my opinion, sound "many many times better". That's quite an exaggeration. It might sound a little better, but it's going to require some good gear around it to make that happen. In the meantime, the OP already has a phono preamp on hand. A new HT receiver would have HDMI, multi-channel surround capability, a remote and modern technology in general. The 2230 has no features to make use of the higher level of sound quality that the PS3 can provide with its capability to read DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD or any surround capability. Which one will run longer is pure speculation. Sure, the 22 series were very well-made receivers, but they are over 30 years old now and have the likelihood of requiring some maintenance.

basite
03-28-2010, 02:45 PM
I still definitely disagree...100%. The 2230 will not, in my opinion, sound "many many times better". That's quite an exaggeration. It might sound a little better, but it's going to require some good gear around it to make that happen. In the meantime, the OP already has a phono preamp on hand. A new HT receiver would have HDMI, multi-channel surround capability, a remote and modern technology in general. The 2230 has no features to make use of the higher level of sound quality that the PS3 can provide with its capability to read DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD or any surround capability. Which one will run longer is pure speculation. Sure, the 22 series were very well-made receivers, but they are over 30 years old now and have the likelihood of requiring some maintenance.


I have a near 40 year old luxman here that measures & sounds better than my modern denon integrated amp... nothing has been done to it...

the only maintenance I did to it was use some deoxit on the potentiometers...
and the Marantz 22 series were very good made indeed, I'd prefer it over a modern HT amp in the league of that particular onkyo, even though it doesn't have a remote, the home theater features, ...
home theater features which of course, you'll only have benefit from when you actually have 5 speakers, but he'll start out with stereo speakers...

just saying, the onkyo will fall short sooner or later, it's not stable enough to drive 2 speakers with a 4 ohm impedance, or heavy impedance fluctuations, this all limits the choice for future upgrades.
on the other hand, the marantz, will offer you good sound, will drive speakers more easily, will have a better phono stage, and, if you decide to upgrade, you can sell it for the same money or even more than you originally bought it for, while you'll have a hard time trying to do the same with the onkyo, if you can sell it for a decent price, that is...

about the "which will run longer", it's a speculation indeed, but in all honesty, I'd more trust a well made vintage receiver than a cheap modern amp. but of course, I had bad experiences with that already, so I might be biased...

poppachubby
03-28-2010, 02:51 PM
If the OP hadn't indicated his ability to buy more gear soon, I think noob's route would be imperative. There are several ways he can proceed. Which way he goes is clearly up to him. If he ends up with his needs fulfilled then it's job done IMO.

In my first post I asked about his TV and how he was listening to it. I figured if he has some means of HT, he can live without until he's able to upgrade. In the meantime, he can have a kick azz TT set up, with speakers that can be integrated into an HT set up.

02audionoob
03-28-2010, 02:55 PM
I have a near 40 year old luxman here that measures better than my modern denon integrated amp... nothing has been done to it...

the only maintenance I did to it was use some deoxit on the potentiometers...
and the Marantz 22 series were very good made indeed, I'd prefer it over a modern HT amp in the league of that particular onkyo, even though it doesn't have a remote, the home theater features, ...
home theater features which of course, you'll only have benefit from when you actually have 5 speakers, but he'll start out with stereo speakers...

just saying, the onkyo will fall short sooner or later, it's not stable enough to drive 2 speakers with a 4 ohm impedance, or heavy impedance fluctuations, this all limits the choice for future upgrades.
on the other hand, the marantz, will offer you good sound, will drive speakers more easily, will have a better phono stage, and, if you decide to upgrade, you can sell it for the same money or even more than you originally bought it for, while you'll have a hard time trying to do the same with the onkyo, if you can sell it for a decent price, that is...

about the "which will run longer", it's a speculation indeed, but in all honesty, I'd more trust a well made vintage receiver than a cheap modern amp. but of course, I had bad experiences with that already, so I might be biased...

If I had to choose between the Marantz being better made or having every other advantage, I'll choose every other advantage. And I have nothing against vintage receivers. I still frequently use my Marantz 2325. But if I were just starting out, and I have the OP's current gear, there's no way I would spend my first money on a 35-year-old 2-channel receiver and live without all those other features.

basite
03-28-2010, 03:09 PM
If I had to choose between the Marantz being better made or having every other advantage, I'll choose every other advantage. And I have nothing against vintage receivers. I still frequently use my Marantz 2325. But if I were just starting out, and I have the OP's current gear, there's no way I would spend my first money on a 35-year-old 2-channel receiver and live without all those other features.

well, tastes differ I guess...

I choose quality, good sound, durability & excellent resale values over having a cheap thing with lots of 'features', after all, it's still a basic, bottom of the line HT receiver.

I guess what you see as an 'advantage', is more like a useless feature for me. after all, he doesn't even have surround speakers so far, and since he's on a tight budget, I assume they're not coming there any time soon...

I choose quality over quantity, a lesson that I learned the hard way.
and just IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with stereo, for vinyl, it's the best, and the only way to go.

keep them spinning,
Bert.

02audionoob
03-28-2010, 03:15 PM
well, tastes differ I guess...

I choose quality, good sound, durability & excellent resale values over having a cheap thing with lots of 'features', after all, it's still a basic, bottom of the line HT receiver.

I guess what you see as an 'advantage', is more like a useless feature for me. after all, he doesn't even have surround speakers so far, and since he's on a tight budget, I assume they're not coming there any time soon...

I choose quality over quantity, a lesson that I learned the hard way.
and just IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with stereo, for vinyl, it's the best, and the only way to go.

keep them spinning,
Bert.

I guess I've just lost the desire to fish my stereo equipment out of garage sales and dumpsters or wait for someone to just give it to me.

barbarian
03-28-2010, 03:45 PM
poppachubby I have the tele coming out of the computer speakers. It's enough for now, and I am definitely more interested in setting a very descent TT system. I have contacted the person selling the Marantz and will hopefully have it by tomorrow. Thanks again! This has been great information.

barbarian
03-28-2010, 03:55 PM
JoeE are you selling any equipment? The Marantz 2230b is in Mt. Penn, about 70 miles from me. I'll try to make it out there by Tuesday.

poppachubby
03-28-2010, 04:34 PM
poppachubby I have the tele coming out of the computer speakers. It's enough for now, and I am definitely more interested in setting a very descent TT system. I have contacted the person selling the Marantz and will hopefully have it by tomorrow. Thanks again! This has been great information.

Sounds good. Any ideas about your table situation? We can look at tweaking what you have, and making sure it's as good as it can be. Or you can get something else.

Joe seems to have something up his sleeve for you...

barbarian
03-29-2010, 01:02 PM
I made an offer on the 2230b, and it seems like the seller is firm on the $100 price tag. I saw a Technichs SA-130 AM/FM receiver at a thrift for $9 (would this have been a good purchase?). I will most likely pick up the 2230b tonight or tomorrow afternoon, if there aren't any other suggestions.

I am definitely more interested in setting up a nice analog system vs. worrying about the HD TV and PS3. My time is limited as a medical student, and I rarely watch blu-rays or play on the PS3; I would rather enjoy warm vinyl during long study sessions, with a proper analog setup.

Once I have the receiver, my next step would be to purchase speakers. The mordaunt 902i seem to be a nice pair. Any other suggestions that I should consider? I am definitely inexperienced with speakers, so do agree that I should but a NEW set.

As far as the TT, I was hoping that we could tweak my SL-20 and get a few more spins out of her. Unless these improvements will end up costing more or about the same as purchasing a used Pioneer PL-516 (http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/1647976308.html). How much would a descent cart. run me, about $100?

Thanks again for all of your advice, it is much appreciated.

E

barbarian
03-29-2010, 01:08 PM
When I asked the seller about the condition of the $100 marantz 2230b, this was the reply:

"Channels are fuzzy when adjusting volume, not when still. All lights are good. I have a pair of ADS speakers to test."

Is this still a good deal, and what should I look/hear for when testing it?

Thanks. :7:

poppachubby
03-29-2010, 01:30 PM
I will most likely pick up the 2230b tonight or tomorrow afternoon, if there aren't any other suggestions.

We could keep suggesting endlessly. This is a solid receiver which you can resell when you are ready to upgrade. In the meantime it will serve you well and help to train your ears on proper fidelity.


Once I have the receiver, my next step would be to purchase speakers. The mordaunt 902i seem to be a nice pair. Any other suggestions that I should consider? I am definitely inexperienced with speakers, so do agree that I should but a NEW set.

Honestly, I'm not a speaker pro. Hopefully some of the other guys can weigh in here. There's one member in particular, Leroy, who rated these quite highly against higher end speakers. For the price, you can't go wrong. They are bookshelf style, so they are compact but would need stands to perform correctly. Of course, you can DIY the stands if you're smart. We can help you with that later.


As far as the TT, I was hoping that we could tweak my SL-20 and get a few more spins out of her. Unless these improvements will end up costing more or about the same as purchasing a used Pioneer PL-516 (http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/1647976308.html). How much would a descent cart. run me, about $100?

With a new cartridge and some tweaks, your table will most liekly sound better than it does now. When I say "tweaks" I'm referring to small but measurable improvements to the set up. Simple things that you maybe aren't aware of.

For price vs. peformance... http://www.turntableneedles.com/Ortofon-OMB-10_p_2999.html


When I asked the seller about the condition of the $100 marantz 2230b, this was the reply:

"Channels are fuzzy when adjusting volume, not when still. All lights are good. I have a pair of ADS speakers to test."

Is this still a good deal, and what should I look/hear for when testing it?

Thanks.

The fuzziness is a common problem that comes with age. It's simply dirt and dust in the pots. You can buy some contact cleaner, most popular in audiophile circles is Deoxit, and clean it yourself. VERY simple. The bulbs being lit is usually a good sign of an owner who has cared for their gear.

If he has speakers hooked up, that's a good sign too. It would appear he has nothin to hide. Best thing you can do is test every function of the amp, and see that it responds. Also, try to plug into each input at the back if possible. With any luck he will have a TT there. If you're feeling ambitious, take yours with you and hook it in.

Did he tell you which model of ADS speakers he has? They made some decent speakers, you may be able to snag a deal...

poppachubby
03-29-2010, 02:07 PM
You know, on second thought. You SHOULD grab the Mordaunts, or a similar deal. If the ADS are a highly regarded model for a real steal, maybe.

The Mordaunts will give you a nice gateway into 5.1 where you can integrate them. Besides, they look sleek and modern and sound the same.

basite
03-29-2010, 02:10 PM
the channel fuzzyness when changing the volume is common, as poppachubby already explained, this is simply some dirt in the potentiometers, some contact cleaner will easily solve this (you can find this almost everywhere, do know, wd40 and the likes, are not contact cleaner, an also as PC has already mentioned, the most common to use in audio appliances is Deoxit. :))

We would be happy to help you if there are any questions about the Marantz :)

for the speakers, the Mordount shorts are good speakers for their money, you might also want to look at the Monitor audio bronze series (the BR2, in specific).

as for cartridges: the Ortofon OMB-10 is a good cartridge, and the stylus is upgradeable, since the entire series use the same cartridge body...
Also really good are the new Ortofon 2M series...

I'm a big fan of Denon cartridges too, a DL-110 is slightly over $100, slightly warmer sounding than the ortofon's, and very musical :)

Good luck, and keep them spinning!
Bert.

barbarian
03-29-2010, 02:23 PM
When asked about the ADS speakers:

" I may sell a pair of them, I have a pair of L1's very rare and a pair of l8e's both bookshelf style. Both black."

Any advice in a combined offer for the speakers and 2230b?

JoeE SP9
03-29-2010, 02:47 PM
The guys at www.audiokarma.org (http://www.audiokarma.org) can be quite helpful with costing vintage gear.

poppachubby
03-29-2010, 02:52 PM
Barbarian, give me the evening to get back to you regarding these speakers and a quote. I do know that ADS made some fine bookshelf speakers.

poppachubby
03-30-2010, 11:13 AM
I am unable to find any info regarding those models. There's an ADS thread at AK, but no discussion.

You're on your own with those. If you feel you're really unknowledgable, just pass on the speakers. One thing's for sure, they'll be old. You've got the cash money for some new ones...

barbarian
03-30-2010, 11:24 AM
Thanks poppachubby. I think I'll go for the Mordaunts you suggested. So, I could use these later on to form a descent 5.1 setup?

02audionoob
03-30-2010, 11:37 AM
Seems like you could pick up the L8e's for maybe $75 and get far more bang for your buck than with the Mordaunt...just an opinion. Probably not a bad deal at even $100 or more if the sound seems good.


Regarding cartridges with upgradeable styli...There's not much value to be found there. In the case of the OMB-10, the logical upgrade would be the 20 stylus, which sells for $129 at LPgear and $139 at Needle Doctor. But this seller has the complete cartridge for $85 EUR...around $115.

http://www.williamthakker.eu/Ortofon-OMB-20-OMB20-Tonabnehmer_c32-384-385_p4931_x2.htm

basite
03-30-2010, 01:06 PM
Seems like you could pick up the L8e's for maybe $75 and get far more bang for your buck than with the Mordaunt...just an opinion. Probably not a bad deal at even $100 or more if the sound seems good.


True, the L8e's were great speakers, $75 or $100 would be a great price for them, and will probably beat the mordount shorts...

when you pick up the marantz, audition them too, maybe you like them :)

keep them spinning,
Bert.

poppachubby
03-30-2010, 01:32 PM
Perhaps you guys can give him further advice around what to look for with the ADS. They had fuses in them, no?

poppachubby
03-30-2010, 01:33 PM
Thanks poppachubby. I think I'll go for the Mordaunts you suggested. So, I could use these later on to form a descent 5.1 setup?

With any decent pair of speakers, you could use them as fronts/mains in a 5.1 system.

basite
03-30-2010, 01:47 PM
Perhaps you guys can give him further advice around what to look for with the ADS. They had fuses in them, no?

The L8e didn't have fuses, IIRC...

they had those "sticky" tweeters though, make sure these are alright..;

barbarian
04-02-2010, 03:31 AM
what do you guys think of this? http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/1672639487.html Luxman R115, maybe some descent speakers?

poppachubby
04-02-2010, 04:38 AM
What happened to the Marantz?!? I see in that link a Thorens TD 115, would probably be "cheap" and a drastic improvemnet over the Technics. Not their greatest table, but again an improvement over your current deck.

I am unfamilair with the Luxman so I can't guide you on price. If you're really keen on it, make a specific post in the vintage or amp room.

What's your plan at this point?

barbarian
04-02-2010, 06:49 AM
I am meeting with the person selling the 2230b tonight, and picking it up. Maybe I can snag one of his speakers too. I'll post photos later tonight. Thanks for the thus far.

02audionoob
04-02-2010, 07:05 AM
what do you guys think of this? http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/1672639487.html Luxman R115, maybe some descent speakers?

Although it's always a matter of preference, I believe the Luxman R115 would sound superior to the Marantz 2230b.

poppachubby
04-02-2010, 08:45 AM
Although it's always a matter of preference, I believe the Luxman R115 would sound superior to the Marantz 2230b.

How so? I have no real experience or knowledge about Luxman gear, not even their TT's for which I know are reputed.

02audionoob
04-02-2010, 08:46 AM
How so? I have no real experience or knowledge about Luxman gear, not even their TT's for which I know are reputed.

I think you'd get more power and cleaner power out of the Luxman than the Marantz.

JoeE SP9
04-02-2010, 04:43 PM
JoeE are you selling any equipment? The Marantz 2230b is in Mt. Penn, about 70 miles from me. I'll try to make it out there by Tuesday.

At the moment no. I've never owned a receiver. Sometime in the next couple of months I will be selling a Micro Seiki DQ-43 TT.

poppachubby
04-02-2010, 05:24 PM
At the moment no. I've never owned a receiver. Sometime in the next couple of months I will be selling a Micro Seiki DQ-43 TT.

Can you PM me some details?

barbarian
04-02-2010, 06:24 PM
Just came back from Mt. Penn with the 2230b and some L8e speakers. Total: $160. What to do now? Tweaks for the TT? What cables should I purchase to hook up these babies? I also need to clean the volume control, to eliminate the buzz while turning the knob. We tested the speakers at his house and they sounded great. The only problem I see, is that when I push the knob for SPKR System 1, it doesn't go in or out, so I am assuming is stuck in; is there a way to fix this? I think the SPKR System 2 knob has the same issue. The apartment complex where I live has 2 speakers built into the wall, should I connect these on speaker 2? Could I add a sub to the 2230b?

I am very interested in setting up the FM/AM radio. What is the difference between FM 300, FM 75, G? Which antennas do I need to buy and where do I get these?

Thanks for the help thus far, it is much appreciated!

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7akxlXjOvI/AAAAAAAABiY/DUjD0Rtn8_U/s720/IMG_3055.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7akxw6-jlI/AAAAAAAABic/NTgPkBvwMLY/s512/IMG_3056.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7akyHiO4eI/AAAAAAAABig/U6adBrosgkw/s720/IMG_3058.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7a2LqvMyXI/AAAAAAAABjw/qvJnO5rlXD8/s720/IMG_3080.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7a2MiawswI/AAAAAAAABj8/Cgf_zKyy3LI/s720/IMG_3076.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7a2NEe7RyI/AAAAAAAABkA/f0wLHn4dRQU/s720/IMG_3077.jpg

These are stands that the seller had the speakers on. I'll try and make something like this. Any suggestions?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7ame2dIhuI/AAAAAAAABjM/ZTpyClK1NGo/s512/-1.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7amfDkkFDI/AAAAAAAABjQ/ogpawfk9IO4/s512/-2.jpg

poppachubby
04-03-2010, 01:08 AM
Wow. Great pics!! Those ADS look fantastic, and what a bargain! I was a bit concerned he would want too much for them. You got a great deal. Indeed you're on your way. This may sound flaky, but I love it when someone actually follows through with advice from the board. I love seeing people get what they have set out to find.

Anyhow, I don't know about the FM settings on those. Joe will for sure, 02AN may also know.

Today (Saturday) I am busy. I have a little score of my own to pick up. You are going to need to remove the cover from the amp, then remove the faceplate. To do that, the knobs can all be removed to allow the plate to slide off. Keep track of everything as you take it off. If it was me, I would clean every last part that you're able to. Once the faceplate is off, you'll have full access to the knobs and switches' contact points. Of course, you'll need some electrical contact cleaner. Audiophiles like to use a brand called Deoxit, but truthfully any proper brand will do. These solvents generally have a "self-drying" agent in them so that overspray will literally dry out on its own. You will want to spray each contact point really well. Once sprayed, move it through it's full range of motion approx. 30 - 40 times. Don't be shy to spray it again at the midway point of 20 . Do every single contact point that you can access, and you should be able to access them all. As for the speaker buttons, once you have the cover and faceplate off, see if they come back to life with a bit of help.

You can hook up the in-wall speakers, but don't run all 4 at once. Run one pair or the other. This is the way most people use an A/B speaker system.

You know, with so much money saved, you could probably consider a better TT. If not, then I suggest using some cash to buy yourself a pair of stands.

If you are definitely sticking it out with the Technics, you should look at a better cartridge. I think with the cash you have, we can get you something real nice. From there, we'll make sure the table is set up correctly. In the meantime, post a more complete photo of the table. Your first step will be reinforcing the plinth to help cope with vibrations.

We should also look at your room and the location of the gear. Let's try and set everything up optimally. Do you have a rack or cabinet for the gear?

Again, congrats!! I'll try to check in today and see how you're making out. Take your time cleaning it. BTW, use the contact cleaner on the RCA plugs at the back of the amp too.

basite
04-03-2010, 03:02 AM
Hi, about the antennas:

the 300 ohm and 75 ohm are for a regular "two cable antenna", they are basically 2 cables, one connected to each, you should be able to find these in radioshack or similar. I even have used 2 simple cables with succes, just make sure they're not shielded too much. If you go to look for such an antenna, they sometimes are wound on a square plastic thing. Anyway, if you go looking for one, ask for a "dipole radio antenna". They can be really big (as in like the antenna's you often find on roofs), but there are smaller ones too.

75 ohm & ground is for a 75 ohm antenna, the cable (coax, like for the TV) uses one like this. generally these are smaller, but these days they all have coax ends (plugs), so you'll have to convert them, not hard, cut of the ends, use the center cable for the 75 ohm connector on the amp, the cables shield is used as the gnd (ground). If I were closer I would have sent you a decent antenna, but, unfortunately, I'm at the other side of the world :(

About the cleaning and all, Poppachubby's advice is excellent, don't worry to remove the face plate, you should be able to just pull of the knobs, it's not really that hard to take it apart and clean it, just be sure to remember which screw went where, and don't lose them :p

If you need any help, feel free to ask, we'll all be happy to help you!

And btw, Congrats, you made an excellent deal on both the amp and the speakers!
Enjoy them.

For the stands, simple wooden stands are good, be sure they are sturdy enough, so make them pretty solid :), if you want to go further, you can build stands with some kind of tubes (some use PVC tubes (big ones), I don't really like that, not the nicest solution), and fill them with sand or lead shot, helps the stability and coupling, again, if you need any advice, we would be happy to help :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

barbarian
04-03-2010, 04:50 AM
Thanks PC! Great help. I definitely want to clean it completely and want to fix the two pushswitches. I connected the in-wall speakers to both SPKR systems, and they both work great. Unfortunately I have a test in a week and will not have time to work on the 2230b until after this test :sad:

In the meantime I want to buy some speaker wire to start using (enjoying) the L8es. What do you recommend as far as speaker wire.

I have provided the photographs of my setup. Please take a look at it and make recommendations. I definitely need some speaker stands. Should I buy a more sturdy table for the TT; I am using a cheap IKEA lack side table. Unfortunately right now I live in an apartment with carpet, and if I walk near the TT, it begins to bounce/skip.

Thanks all!

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7c3zeztm9I/AAAAAAAABkg/jBpCByoVopk/s720/IMG_3081.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7c3zylp7SI/AAAAAAAABko/8ypDhVviUrw/s720/IMG_3082.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7c30BRlY0I/AAAAAAAABks/ti7gG9Z354U/s720/IMG_3083.jpg

barbarian
04-03-2010, 04:57 AM
Thanks basite. I'll try and grab one of these antennas today. I want to listen to some npr and the local jazz station.


My first path of upgrade from there would probably be a cartridge like the Shure M97XE, Audio-Technica AT95E or Nagaoka MP-11 and perhaps the AT phono preamp...although I would probably be more inclined to hold out for a Cambridge Audio 640P or Musical Fidelity V-LPS. That's not to mention the turntable...which holds a vast array of options on the used market...too many to mention.


I like noob's short list of carts. I would add the Ortofon OMB-10 which is very affordable quality. It also has an upgradable stylus (needle) so the fidelity can be further improved.

When considering a new cartridge; which path do you guys recommend? The Ortofon OMB-10 sounds good because of the upgradable stylus. Any other suggestions?

poppachubby
04-03-2010, 05:39 AM
When considering a new cartridge; which path do you guys recommend? The Ortofon OMB-10 sounds good because of the upgradable stylus. Any other suggestions?

There's a short list of popular budget carts. Noob had the Nag and the Shure, and I had a Ortofon. You can also add the Ortofon 2M Red. I am actually re-recommending this to you. The 2M series is also upgradable, with the Red being the entry level. The better your table or arm gets, you can upgrade the stylus. I have a 2M Red and they're great value. Since you saved a little with the speakers, splurge a bit more on the cart. They're 99.99 at Needle Doc....wife is yelling, bye....

barbarian
04-03-2010, 05:47 AM
Jajajaja. Thank you! I'll look at the 2M Red.

basite
04-03-2010, 06:10 AM
Hi,

Your setup looks pretty good so :), definitely get those speakers of the ground though! so if you have time somewhere in the future, you could build some stands :), I found Plywood to work better than MDF (MDF tends to make the bass sound a tad muddy...

Since your setup is on a carpet, you could look into getting spikes under the stands, so the stands & speakers are coupled solid to the floor. This is better for the sound, and the stands are less likely to fall over...

About the turntable: many here recommended to get a different turntable, I support them, but take your time, there are lots and lots and lots of turntables out there, and maybe you could get a super deal later on...

you said the needle skips and all if you come close to the tt: this is due to vibrations. Your floor & carpet transmit your footsteps, the needle picks these up, and this results in skipping (it doesn't take much to skip a needle.) The absolute best solution is to wallmount the turntable. You can buy or build a shelf that you mount to the wall, and place the turntable on that, this eliminates all vibrations and stops needle skipping.

the other solution is to build or buy a super heavy and well isolated rack (this is also the expensive solution...), I built myself a heavy rack, but then again, my turntable weighs over 50 kilo's, and would most likely kill every wall mount rack...

about the cartridge:
The Ortofon 2M red or better is also the best option for you IMO...

good luck with your test!

Have fun :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

barbarian
04-03-2010, 06:30 AM
The absolute best solution is to wallmount the turntable. You can buy or build a shelf that you mount to the wall, and place the turntable on that, this eliminates all vibrations and stops needle skipping.

I'll look into making/buying some sort of wall mount. This is probably the best solution.

Are these wires okay; is it necessary to get a more expensive set? I really don't know what I should look for in speaker wires: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102499

Thanks for all the tips. You guys really rock! :16:

02audionoob
04-03-2010, 08:14 AM
This might be an unpopular opinion in an audiophile forum but I'll go out on a limb and say the Radio Shack speaker wire is good enough. I'd probably be inclined to choose a larger gauge, but not by much. Those old Marantz connections don't hold large wire very well.

With regard to cartridges, keep in mind...the stylus can be upgraded on many cartridges, including those from Nagaoka, Audio-Technica and Shure. This isn't unique to Ortofon. It's just more clearly marketed by Ortofon since they were clear in saying the OM cartridge body was the same throughout the series.

basite
04-03-2010, 08:38 AM
I'll look into making/buying some sort of wall mount. This is probably the best solution.

Are these wires okay; is it necessary to get a more expensive set? I really don't know what I should look for in speaker wires: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102499

Thanks for all the tips. You guys really rock! :16:


as audionoob suggested, a simple cable will work for now, (the ones you can find at radioshack), the one you suggested, however, I would not take, go for 14 or 16 gauge, probably 16 gauge, as any bigger might be to thick for the marantz to hold firmly. you could install banana plugs on the speakers end for easier connection, and avoiding oxidation.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104178# this, for instance, should work pretty good, I use flex plugs at the receiver end here (a vintage Luxman R-800), this allows me to use thicker cable (I only had 10 gauge cable lying around...)

Have fun :)

Keep them spinning!
Bert.

poppachubby
04-03-2010, 08:54 AM
I recommend 12 AWG cable with pin termination for your amp.

poppachubby
04-03-2010, 06:45 PM
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7c30BRlY0I/AAAAAAAABks/ti7gG9Z354U/s720/IMG_3083.jpg

Things look pretty good. I hope you understand the urgency and importance of stands for those speakers. This must be done ASAP and before anything else.

Secondly, the TT is too close to the speaker. The vibration from playback is going to rock your TT's plinth, and make for some crumby music. Stands will help if this is the only place it can go. Consider a wall shelf. This will help with vibrations created by your speakers and by walking. You'll need to tap into the studding in the wall, I would suggest a stud finder if you're unsure how to locate them. From there, 2 simple "L" brackets and a piece of MDF can be used for the shelf. Cheap and easy while solving your issue. The other advantage, since I'm assuming you're not a dwarf, is the shelf can be high enough to stand while operating the TT, as opposed to hunched over or kneeling.

EDIT: I see bert already suggested this to you. Great idea Bert, I agree!


I would suggest replacing both the PS3 and cable box's power cords with something respectable. Since your analog gear will be sharing the same power line as your digital, this will help keep down the noise from the digital. Another cheap fix.

I use a basic Acoustic Research cable for both my cable box and PS2 in my H/T set up. Check your private messages regarding this.

http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Research-Performance-2-PIN-Polarized/dp/B000I3F928

barbarian
04-03-2010, 06:50 PM
the 300 ohm and 75 ohm are for a regular "two cable antenna", they are basically 2 cables, one connected to each, you should be able to find these in radioshack or similar. I even have used 2 simple cables with succes, just make sure they're not shielded too much. If you go to look for such an antenna, they sometimes are wound on a square plastic thing. Anyway, if you go looking for one, ask for a "dipole radio antenna". They can be really big (as in like the antenna's you often find on roofs), but there are smaller ones too.

I bought this guy today: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062691 ... it has crimp-on spade tongues/lugs on the two ends which I assume connect to the 300 and 75 ohm spaces. Should I remove the wire from these ends, since I could get one end to fit into the space, and just use the wire?

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7f-LOSzO5I/AAAAAAAABlQ/2FG3VfEBrtA/Screen%20shot%202010-04-03%20at%2010.48.38%20PM.png

poppachubby
04-03-2010, 06:54 PM
I bought this guy today: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062691 ... it has crimp-on spade tongues/lugs on the two ends which I assume connect to the 300 and 75 ohm spaces. Should I remove the wire from these ends, since I could get one end to fit into the space, and just use the wire?

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7f-LOSzO5I/AAAAAAAABlQ/2FG3VfEBrtA/Screen%20shot%202010-04-03%20at%2010.48.38%20PM.png

For making a good contact, bare wire is almost always the best bet.

basite
04-04-2010, 02:36 AM
I bought this guy today: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062691 ... it has crimp-on spade tongues/lugs on the two ends which I assume connect to the 300 and 75 ohm spaces. Should I remove the wire from these ends, since I could get one end to fit into the space, and just use the wire?

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7f-LOSzO5I/AAAAAAAABlQ/2FG3VfEBrtA/Screen%20shot%202010-04-03%20at%2010.48.38%20PM.png

yes, you can remove them, strip the wires again if you need to, you can play around a little with the antenna position, for some reason they offer better reception in some positions than at others...

The ends indeed go into the 300 ohm space, and the 75 ohm space :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Jack in Wilmington
04-04-2010, 05:09 AM
Hi Barbarian,
Sorry to jump into the thread so late. Welcome to AR. I live on the other side of Philly from you, in Delaware. I see the guys have been giving you some great advice on upgrading your present system. Like Poppa said, it makes you feel good when you make recommendations and they are followed up on.

When you talked about getting an antenna for FM stations, I assume you meant WRTI for jazz. I need an amplified antenna to pick them up where I live. You're in a good area for testing gear at the local HiFI shops. Not far from you in Quest For Sound in Bristol. They have an excellent selection of speakers and a good selection of vinyl. Enjoy your new gear and don't be a stranger.

barbarian
04-04-2010, 06:43 AM
When you talked about getting an antenna for FM stations, I assume you meant WRTI for jazz. I need an amplified antenna to pick them up where I live. You're in a good area for testing gear at the local HiFI shops. Not far from you in Quest For Sound in Bristol. They have an excellent selection of speakers and a good selection of vinyl. Enjoy your new gear and don't be a stranger.

Yup WRTI and WHYY :) I'll have to check out Bristol some time this summer. Repo Records and aka are great in Phila. Can't wait for Record Store Day on the 17th! :9:

02audionoob
04-04-2010, 09:18 AM
I have a hard time tolerating the looks of those T-shaped dipole FM antennas. I'll admit they work well, especially if you run them high on a wall or window, but if you're sensitive to looks, maybe you could get something like this...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/314705-REG/Terk_Technologies_FMPLUS_FM_FM_Stereo_Antenna.html

barbarian
04-05-2010, 03:41 PM
I was asked to post more photos of the TT and cartridge to help with the tweaks. Also, I am wondering if the Ortofon 2M Red would fit right into my tonearm or do I need a different tonearm; Is it standard?

Thank you again! :1:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7p0SGEFnOI/AAAAAAAABmE/QvD1XjQC7DE/s720/IMG_3110.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7p0S1FO_PI/AAAAAAAABmI/Tn-Gv_9LSM8/s720/IMG_3107.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7p0TMHD9vI/AAAAAAAABmM/C42rYLy7p2g/s720/IMG_3108.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7p0TaeBVXI/AAAAAAAABmQ/CfBKLGPvfM4/s720/IMG_3098.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7p0T6LjqtI/AAAAAAAABmU/HHu_5OlHWr4/s720/IMG_3101.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S7p0ULjwfsI/AAAAAAAABmY/IA0n7Jikxss/s720/IMG_3099.jpg

02audionoob
04-05-2010, 04:13 PM
That headshell you removed is where you attach a new cartridge. All of the cartridges mentioned in this thread are the standard, as is that headshell. You'll have to remove the two screws and four wires to change out the cartridge. When you re-install, it will take a fair bit of care and precision. You want it like this...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4495455200_49cb3c6384_o.jpg

By the way...Why is your tracking force dial set at almost zero?

poppachubby
04-05-2010, 05:55 PM
Lol...I knew there would be some issues. Don't worry barbarian, order the 2M and we;ll get you fixed up. I have a feeling you'll be floored by the final outcome. Especially when I see that you're tracking with almost no force...

"Round 'n round she goes, where she stops, no one knows..."

Sorry man, gotta have a bit of fun at your expense.

basite
04-06-2010, 04:33 AM
as mentioned above:
Remove the 2 screws at the top/bottom of the headshell :)
the new cart should come with screws too, most likely, install those on the headshell again with the cart. it'll work out fine :)

after that, come back, here, we'll help you out with setting up the turntable so it performs at it's best :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

barbarian
04-12-2010, 01:55 PM
Hello mates. Finally finished my neuroscience module 1 exam today. Coincidently I received the 2M Red beauty this afternoon. I am excited to continue my march toward vinyl bliss. I found an instructional video on how to replace a stylus/cart, etc (http://www.howcast.com/videos/167990-How-To-Replace-a-Turntable-Needle). Should I ignore the video? Any other suggestions? The paper cartridge alignment protractor part looks complicated.

Any suggestion on buying/making speaker grill covers. Unfortunately the seller did not have them with him. I don't want to risk damaging the cones.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S8OPk-wX98I/AAAAAAAABoc/3QZzyc3w7C4/s720/IMG_3164.jpg

02audionoob
04-12-2010, 02:19 PM
With a Technics S-shaped arm, you just need to align the cartridge straight ahead in the headshell and at this distance...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4495455200_49cb3c6384_o.jpg

This is the dimension of the Technics tool in the video. Using the paper protractor is good, but maybe not any better than the Technics method. I noticed the Baerwald protractor in the video. Aligning to that protractor will look a little odd if you get it right. It will be pushed forward and angled in, as compared to the Technics method.

poppachubby
04-12-2010, 02:44 PM
hey dude, I'm at work. Listen to noob he will help you. Just be careful of the stylus, keep the guard on until you're ready to balance the arm, and then playback. As for grills, only dudes with wives, young kids or Bose speakers are eligible to use grills. You qualify?

02audionoob
04-12-2010, 05:21 PM
Another approach is to go by the specified overhang. For the SL-20, the overhang is specified as 14 mm. Which means with the cartridge straight ahead, the dimension in this picture would be 14 mm when you swing the cartridge in to the spindle:

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/overhangb400.GIF

basite
04-13-2010, 02:49 AM
Hi,

Congrats with the cart, I hope your test went well to btw :)

now, for the cartridge replacement: I can't see the video, since it's an invalid url, but replacing the cart is NOT hard.

remove headshell, remove wires from cart (use a small plier to do this, makes your life easier - believe me). Unscrew two screws at the top of the headshell, remove cart (it'll fall off...)

take new cart, screw it to the headshell again, using the 2 screws provided :), reconnect wires to cart. Most likely the pins at the back of the cart should be color coded, which makes it easier to know which wire goes where. If not, it should also be in the manual that comes with the cart (if there is one), or with another marking. Just in case, red=right ch hot, white = left ch hot; green = richt ch earth/-, blue = left ch earth/-, the markings at the back could also be like that.

Audionoob posted a pic on how to align the cart, the first pic (showing a side view of the headshell), is correct. DO NOT use the second pic, as this method is very hard to measure (making it inaccurate), and you might kill your stylus doing so.
slightly loosen the two screws and slide the cart forward/backward to align it like in the drawing/picture. then reinstall the headshell again in the arm.

this is just temporarily, I'll explain on how to use a protractor properly later on. It's really not hard at all.

then on to the tracking force. remove the stylus guard first.
then turn the anti skating device to zero (it's the small wheel right of your tonearm).
do not place the cart on the record yet. hold the arm between the arm rest and the platter, and turn the counterweight. Balance the arm, so it doesn't point upward nor downward, it should be horizontal. then turn the black wheel on the counterweight to zero.
now your cart has no tracking force. It should have 1,8 grammes, according to the specs, so turn the weight forward, until the 1,8grammes position on the black wheel.
the tracking force is now correct.

set the anti skating device (the small wheel right of your tonearm) to 1,8 grammes to.

like this, the cart should perform good already, i'll explain you on how to use a protractor properly later on, it's really not hard, and can make a big difference when the cart isn't aligned properly.

You can experiment yourself too, I use this protractor myself, I think it's the best protractor available for free.Clikc here for the protractor (http://www.vacuumstate.com/fileupload/Guru_protractor.pdf)
print it on a 100% scale.

in the meanwhile: here's some interesting lecture on what a protractor is, how it works, and why it's good to use them.

http://www.vinylengine.com/protractor-user-guide.shtml

here are some other (good) protractors for more specific turntables and stuff:
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

(remember the site 'vinylengine', might come in handy sooner or later :))

your turntable is now ready to use, remove stylus guard, get an lp, and start playing :)

if there are any questions feel free to ask :)

Keep them spinning!
Bert.

poppachubby
04-13-2010, 04:36 AM
Looks good! Nice info guys. How you makin out barbarian? I would suggest to do all of the reading put forth by basite. I know you're busy studying, but this research has great rewards also. The more you read, the more you'll understand what it's all about (obviously).

I own a 2M Red and although it's not on a headshell right now, if need be I'll get it out. We can exchange photos step by step if you run into any problems. Try to enjoy it even though it's a PITA.

Please check the link and favorite it. It's part of the vinyl asylum over at Audio Asylum. An excellent forum BTW. Some of the articles in this link have been wrote by extremely respected audiophiles, and include set up. http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/d.pl?audio/faq.html#vinyl

Again, mind the stylus!!!!!!

02audionoob
04-13-2010, 04:46 AM
Audionoob posted a pic on how to align the cart, the first pic (showing a side view of the headshell), is correct. DO NOT use the second pic, as this method is very hard to measure (making it inaccurate), and you might kill your stylus doing so.
slightly loosen the two screws and slide the cart forward/backward to align it like in the drawing/picture. then reinstall the headshell again in the arm.


Silly comment. Measuring overhang is actually the recommended method for many of the old CEC turntables, which were sold under their own name and also re-badged by Marantz, among others. They provided a mark on the 45 adapter at the desired distance.


I see what's wrong with the video url. The link is picking up the 2nd parenthesis. Delete that and it should work. In Internet Explorer, it worked for me even without me having to delete the parenthesis. IE deleted it on its own.

basite
04-13-2010, 08:20 AM
Silly comment. Measuring overhang is actually the recommended method for many of the old CEC turntables, which were sold under their own name and also re-badged by Marantz, among others. They provided a mark on the 45 adapter at the desired distance.


I see what's wrong with the video url. The link is picking up the 2nd parenthesis. Delete that and it should work. In Internet Explorer, it worked for me even without me having to delete the parenthesis. IE deleted it on its own.


indeed, but the technics doesn't really have this mark on the 45 rpm adapter, so you'll have to measure it yourself...

02audionoob
04-13-2010, 08:36 AM
KABusa.com sells the actual Technics overhang tool, in case anyone needs it.

basite
04-13-2010, 11:13 AM
KABusa.com sells the actual Technics overhang tool, in case anyone needs it.

Didn't even know this existed!

I stand corrected :)

does it work for all technics models? or just for the SL12xx series?

keep them spinning,
Bert.

02audionoob
04-13-2010, 05:43 PM
Most Technics S-shaped arms have the same or nearly the same geometry, so the overhang tool is not limited to the SL-1200 and variants. Compare the SL-1200MK2 and the SL-1800MK2, for example, and you'll see the same arm.

barbarian
04-14-2010, 05:57 PM
With a Technics S-shaped arm, you just need to align the cartridge straight ahead in the headshell and at this distance...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4495455200_49cb3c6384_o.jpg

This is the dimension of the Technics tool in the video. Using the paper protractor is good, but maybe not any better than the Technics method. I noticed the Baerwald protractor in the video. Aligning to that protractor will look a little odd if you get it right. It will be pushed forward and angled in, as compared to the Technics method.


Another approach is to go by the specified overhang. For the SL-20, the overhang is specified as 14 mm. Which means with the cartridge straight ahead, the dimension in this picture would be 14 mm when you swing the cartridge in to the spindle:

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/overhangb400.GIF

I'm planning on setting up the cart tonight. Which approach should I take? Any need to clean any part of the arm or connections? With the measurements, are you guys just using a regular ruler?

Thanks for the help fellas.

E

poppachubby
04-14-2010, 07:36 PM
Go with the first style, very easy. Yes, use a ruler or any ruled instrument you have. Are you feeling confident at all?

JoeE SP9
04-15-2010, 12:06 PM
I use a DB systems stylus protractor. You can download (not DB) one for free from www.vinylengine.com (http://www.vinylengine.com) or www.enjoythemusic.com (http://www.enjoythemusic.com) . Both sites have several different ones. Different protractors have different null points and will give slightly different results. Vinylengine suggests different protractors for different arm table combinations. As PC said using the measurement with the headshell is easier and more accurate than the other. I prefer a good protractor. IMO you get better results with a protractor.

02audionoob
04-15-2010, 01:39 PM
If you're going to use a protractor, the Stevenson protractor should be closest to Technics.

barbarian
04-17-2010, 07:47 AM
Hello all. I took the Technics 52mm approach. I then tared the arm with the counterweight and then set the force to 1.8g and set the anti skating to 1.8 as well. Here are some pictures. So far, so good. Now it sounds very clear, lots of bass. Enjoy RECORD STORE DAY - Apr. 17.

Any suggestions? Thank you! :D

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S8nOKx4ByCI/AAAAAAAABpE/oJlbQWbFqiI/s720/IMG_3178.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S8nOLJAWUjI/AAAAAAAABpI/4arl8HCjgdY/s720/IMG_3194.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S8nPO8RtTTI/AAAAAAAABpY/Tv5VKOWddXE/s720/IMG_3199.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S8nOL3k6RAI/AAAAAAAABpQ/1ATpIiOzx7E/s720/IMG_3213.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S8nOLZNeOBI/AAAAAAAABpM/fYHAq2ScF9k/s720/IMG_3204.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lf0GMWJe74k/S8nOMNmMviI/AAAAAAAABpU/2Sv3X2kYuYA/s720/IMG_3223.jpg

poppachubby
04-17-2010, 09:35 AM
Looks great!! Give the stylus about 20 hours or more to begin to break in. There will be a sudden curve, and you will notice an improvement in bass response and high end. More importantly, there will be a more open quality to it. With the right recording you will experience proper soundstage, including depth and realistic imaging.

This is when you start to hear the magic of analog. Buckle up cuz it's a lifetime trip...

Did some celebrating of my own today. Happy Record Store Day to you too!!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4528789542_daf3eabaea_b.jpg

barbarian
04-17-2010, 09:47 AM
Thanks. Great job on the Joe Hendeson. I also picked up Mode for Joe with Lee Morgan and Cedar Walton, as well as Max Roach - percussion, bitter, sweet.

barbarian
05-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Hello. It's been a while since I post in the forums. I have been enjoying my 2M Red Ortofon for almost 2 years now on my Technics SL-20. I recently changed a squeaky belt on my TT but I have 3 questions:

1) After changing the belt I noticed that the 45RPM records were playing a bit slow. How do I accurately adjust the speed on my TT? I see the adjustment dials, but is there an accurate way to do this?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2992265/Message%20Boards/photo.JPG

2) I notice that some of my records are not as loud as others; recently I have come to realize that when I am lifiting my tone arm with the lever, if I do it slowly enough: right before the stylus completely comes off the record the volume dramatically increases. Does this mean that my tone arm is coming down to heavily on my records? How should I adjust this? My counter weight is set at 1.8 and anti skating is set at 1.8 as well.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2992265/Message%20Boards/Screen%20shot%202012-05-28%20at%205.13.02%20PM.jpg

3) When I am increasing the volume on my Marantz 2230b, once i go past the mid-level, the volume incredible increases to a point where it seems too loud and a bit distorted. Any suggestions? Or is this normal?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2992265/Message%20Boards/photo-1.JPG

Any member reading this local in Philadelphia? Maybe you can help me out sometime this Summer. Thanks!