Please suggest me regarding Rotel's sound quality

[EliotB]

Hi,
I am seeking an expert suggestion regarding my stereo setup. I have bought a pair of Rotel pre/power amp recently; RC-1550 and RB-1562. These replaced my NAD 355BEE.
Other equipments in my stereo setup as below:
CD player: NAD 515BEE
Speaker: JBL Stage floorstanding (Can't remember the model number correctly, but it is 90db, 150 W)
I did not use expensive interconnect

I used to get nicer/warmer sound with NAD integrated which I had before. However, at that time I did not get enough high frequency response, which I really wanted to hear. But, after switching to Rotel, the sound that I am getting now is very straight and bright. My question is what can I do to make the sound warmer without sacrificing high frequency tones? I really don't like the bright sound at all. I like something like even if I increase volume, it won't hurt y ear much, but at the same time I will get nicer and louder higher frequency as well. Please suggest me what can I do. My room size is about 10ft*13 ft.
Please note that all my connections, CDP and speaker did not change, I have only changed my amp (now it's Rotel pre/power combo, before it was NAD).
I will appreciate your suggestion. Thanks
Eliot

[mijs]

I don't like bright systems either. A few thoughts...

1. How many hours have you run the Rotel gear? Is it broken in yet?

2. Not to be a wise-guy, but I guess the treble control on the Rotel pre-amp doesn't solve the problem?

3. What ICs are you using between the CDP--- pre-amp --- power amp? You might consider a warmer sounding IC that will also let highs through. The AQ King Cobra for example. (If you buy different ICs, make sure you don't get bright ones! Ask here before you buy, then buy used.)

4. Can you position your speakers slightly off-axis to your listening chair? How about wall/floor coverings?

It may be a combination of tweaks that will help.

[Ajani]

Hi,
I am seeking an expert suggestion regarding my stereo setup. I have bought a pair of Rotel pre/power amp recently; RC-1550 and RB-1562. These replaced my NAD 355BEE.
Other equipments in my stereo setup as below:
CD player: NAD 515BEE
Speaker: JBL Stage floorstanding (Can't remember the model number correctly, but it is 90db, 150 W)
I did not use expensive interconnect

I used to get nicer/warmer sound with NAD integrated which I had before. However, at that time I did not get enough high frequency response, which I really wanted to hear. But, after switching to Rotel, the sound that I am getting now is very straight and bright. My question is what can I do to make the sound warmer without sacrificing high frequency tones? I really don't like the bright sound at all. I like something like even if I increase volume, it won't hurt y ear much, but at the same time I will get nicer and louder higher frequency as well. Please suggest me what can I do. My room size is about 10ft*13 ft.
Please note that all my connections, CDP and speaker did not change, I have only changed my amp (now it's Rotel pre/power combo, before it was NAD).
I will appreciate your suggestion. Thanks
Eliot

I'd suggest following the advice of David (from FrankHarveyHiFi) in your thread on this topic in the What HiFi Forums....

Try mixing and matching the Rotels with the NAD as either pre or power (if you still have the NAD)...

As I mentioned in that thread, I did exactly what you did with the previous generation NAD Integrated (C352) and Rotel Pre/Power (RC1070/RB1080)... I had Mission V63 Speakers at the time... and I loved the change from NAD to Rotel... The sound went from warm (and boring, IMO) to exciting....

[paulspencer]

"Brightness" could mean a few things. It could mean a different frequency response - boosted bass and slightly reduce treble can do it. It could also mean distortion of a certain kind (not THD). Pushing an am into clipping will certainly do it.

The best way to get a warmer sound in most systems is to create a warmer tonal balance. You add an Lpad to the tweeter, with slight attenuation - typically 2db shy of totally flat @ 1m will do it. You also use a sub with the level running higher. I've done this in the past but I now use digital EQ to do it with greater control.

The key is in getting the right amount. 2db is mild.

As long as your amps aren't clipping, the main area to look regarding warmth is the speakers and how they are voiced.

[EliotB]

I don't like bright systems either. A few thoughts...

1. How many hours have you run the Rotel gear? Is it broken in yet?

2. Not to be a wise-guy, but I guess the treble control on the Rotel pre-amp doesn't solve the problem?

3. What ICs are you using between the CDP--- pre-amp --- power amp? You might consider a warmer sounding IC that will also let highs through. The AQ King Cobra for example. (If you buy different ICs, make sure you don't get bright ones! Ask here before you buy, then buy used.)

4. Can you position your speakers slightly off-axis to your listening chair? How about wall/floor coverings?

It may be a combination of tweaks that will help.

So many thanks for your input and questions. I am trying to answer:

1. I guess my Rotels got enough time to burn. I have used it for about 10 days now. The system is ON almost all the time.

2. I really don't like to equalise or adjust tone just for the sake of preserving neutrality. However I did try with tonal control adjusting in this case. But still the sound is hard and reducing the treble misses the details, which I don't prefer. So, I would rather keep the default tone settings.

3. ICs in my system are ordinary. I have a question here. How important it is to use a high end IC between the pre-power amps? I might take your advice and will try switching to a better IC. I am not familiar with cable/IC thing at all. I am definitely looking for more advice here.
Also, I am using ordinary cables to connect CDP and speaker. But these cables were there when I used to use my NAD amp.

4. I have tried with different listening angle, distance etc. My floor is carpet. Problem is with the sound. Tweaking surely helps a little, but not much. I like to improve the sound quality. It doesn't sound like high-end (lol)

Thanks
Syed

[EliotB]

I'd suggest following the advice of David (from FrankHarveyHiFi) in your thread on this topic in the What HiFi Forums....

Try mixing and matching the Rotels with the NAD as either pre or power (if you still have the NAD)...

As I mentioned in that thread, I did exactly what you did with the previous generation NAD Integrated (C352) and Rotel Pre/Power (RC1070/RB1080)... I had Mission V63 Speakers at the time... and I loved the change from NAD to Rotel... The sound went from warm (and boring, IMO) to exciting....

Thanks so much for your reply.
I don't have my NAD now. I only have Rotels. I am going to reply David soon. Thanks

[EliotB]

"Brightness" could mean a few things. It could mean a different frequency response - boosted bass and slightly reduce treble can do it. It could also mean distortion of a certain kind (not THD). Pushing an am into clipping will certainly do it.

The best way to get a warmer sound in most systems is to create a warmer tonal balance. You add an Lpad to the tweeter, with slight attenuation - typically 2db shy of totally flat @ 1m will do it. You also use a sub with the level running higher. I've done this in the past but I now use digital EQ to do it with greater control.

The key is in getting the right amount. 2db is mild.

As long as your amps aren't clipping, the main area to look regarding warmth is the speakers and how they are voiced.

Hi,
Thanks for trying to help me.
As much as I like to get high frequencies, I don't like to use a equiliser or a tonal adjustment. I like to keep the neutrality. Rotel is giving enough detals. This is good, but somehow I am getting too hard sound and it's hard to explain..
Syed

[mijs]

So many thanks for your input and questions. I am trying to answer:

1. I guess my Rotels got enough time to burn. I have used it for about 10 days now. The system is ON almost all the time.

2. I really don't like to equalise or adjust tone just for the sake of preserving neutrality. However I did try with tonal control adjusting in this case. But still the sound is hard and reducing the treble misses the details, which I don't prefer. So, I would rather keep the default tone settings.

3. ICs in my system are ordinary. I have a question here. How important it is to use a high end IC between the pre-power amps? I might take your advice and will try switching to a better IC. I am not familiar with cable/IC thing at all. I am definitely looking for more advice here.
Also, I am using ordinary cables to connect CDP and speaker. But these cables were there when I used to use my NAD amp.

4. I have tried with different listening angle, distance etc. My floor is carpet. Problem is with the sound. Tweaking surely helps a little, but not much. I like to improve the sound quality. It doesn't sound like high-end (lol)

Thanks
Syed


1. 10 days is not very long for burn in but they should be sounding better day by day if its running all the time.

2. If the treble control doesn't do the trick, that's one thing. But like someone said on another thread...Avoiding eq doesn't make your system better. It just means its less optimized for your room. It doesn't sound like your system is very neutral anyway.

3. Best advice for ICs: Start another thread asking advice for warm sounding ICs that still let the highs through. Quality ICs can make a difference everywhere in a system, but they are not a "cure all" fix.


4. The Rotel combo may just be bright sounding gear. Rather than spending much more $ to fix it, I'd just return it. Do you have a 30-day return/exchange policy on the Rotel?

[frenchmon]

Hi,
I am seeking an expert suggestion regarding my stereo setup. I have bought a pair of Rotel pre/power amp recently; RC-1550 and RB-1562. These replaced my NAD 355BEE.
Other equipments in my stereo setup as below:
CD player: NAD 515BEE
Speaker: JBL Stage floorstanding (Can't remember the model number correctly, but it is 90db, 150 W)
I did not use expensive interconnect

I used to get nicer/warmer sound with NAD integrated which I had before. However, at that time I did not get enough high frequency response, which I really wanted to hear. But, after switching to Rotel, the sound that I am getting now is very straight and bright. My question is what can I do to make the sound warmer without sacrificing high frequency tones? I really don't like the bright sound at all. I like something like even if I increase volume, it won't hurt y ear much, but at the same time I will get nicer and louder higher frequency as well. Please suggest me what can I do. My room size is about 10ft*13 ft.
Please note that all my connections, CDP and speaker did not change, I have only changed my amp (now it's Rotel pre/power combo, before it was NAD).
I will appreciate your suggestion. Thanks
Eliot

Eliot...I have a Rotel outfit. I have the RBH 1080 amp and the RC 1090 preamp and I must say its a very good outfit. When I first got it, I had it connected with some very cheap interconnects and speaker wire. The music at times was harsh and the bass was muddy. But after I spent some decent money for some quality interconnects and speaker wire that would allow the music to sound the way it was suppose to be, the Rotel settled down and gave beautiful music. I've heard that Rotel was bright but I dont think its bright....I think it can be because of other things in the chain. I invested in some good cable...perhaps you should too. I got some Analysis Plus interconnect and speaker cables. Look here. http://www.analysis-plus.com/prod_interconnects.html

http://www.analysis-plus.com/prod_spkrcable.html

They should have cable and speaker wire in your price range.


frenchmon

[frenchmon]

. ICs in my system are ordinary. I have a question here. How important it is to use a high end IC between the pre-power amps? I might take your advice and will try switching to a better IC. I am not familiar with cable/IC thing at all. I am definitely looking for more advice here.
Also, I am using ordinary cables to connect CDP and speaker. But these cables were there when I used to use my NAD amp.

I did use the same cable and speaker wire from the same company to connect everything....amp to preamp, CDP and SACD to preamp...speaker wire to amp...its all Analysis Plus which is a warm cable that lets all the detail come through... I think you should as well. Some here will push BlueJean Cable which is more of a budget cable and I have heard this cable which is a good cable. But the entry level Analysis Plus Cable is a better warmer cable with better detail in my opinion. Analysis Plus entry level cost a little more than BJC, and its well worth it.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

Man it sure does not sound like this amp is bright at all! Look at what one reviewer said about the preamp over at enjoythemusic.com.


The RC-1550 preamplifier sports a sound with qualities that are reminiscent of a good tube preamplifier,

If thats the case, then its someting else in your chain thats making it sound bright or its not broken in as of yet if you believe that sort of thing. What cables do you use? You can read the very encouraging review here.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0909/rotel_rc1550_rb_1552.htm


frenchmon

[jOesavesbeEs]

Hi Eliot,

Rotel is indeed bright gear. I have the previous generation RC-1082/RB1050 combo, and I noticed that when paired up with my JBL S-38s, the sound was a bit "loud". Maybe, if finances allow, switch to a warmer speaker. I'm not sure what series JBL you are using, but if its the stage/venue series, those tend to be lean and bright. I purchased a pair of Kefs, and now all is well. Plenty of detail and balance with no listening fatigue.

Hope this helps a little with your quest for perfection.

-Joe

[paulspencer]

I've never found Rotel to be bright in any system I've heard them, and I'd say my system is warmer than most. Actually I once had a NAD power amp in my system and I found it to be slightly bright in the treble. Others had the same experience. At the time I was used to an old Akai integrated, and to my surprise the only improvement with the NAD was the extra bass authority and power. Since then I've learnt to tweak my speakers and now if an amp sounded bright on my system it could only be due to clipping.

The most logical suggestion would seem that if one thing has changed, and the system suddenly become bright, then that one change is the cause. Of course, we don't know that - you might have inadvertantly done something else. Still, I expect the difference to be very subtle. If you fix the problem at the speaker end as I've suggested, you could eliminate it for $10. Ideally, the most effective solution lies in the speaker. When a speaker is designed as laid back and warm, I'd doubt that any decent amp would be so bright as to make the system sound bright overall.


Hi,
Thanks for trying to help me.
As much as I like to get high frequencies, I don't like to use a equiliser or a tonal adjustment. I like to keep the neutrality. Rotel is giving enough detals. This is good, but somehow I am getting too hard sound and it's hard to explain..
Syed

Two things to keep in mind. Firstly, music has eq applied in the recording process so like it or not, eq is in the signal chain. I'd prefer to have some control over it on my end rather than pretend it doesn't exist and unknowingly accept the eq included. Secondly, when eq is correctly applied, there is an almost universal preference for it.

However, in this case I'm not suggesting using an eq unit as I do, but a simple $10 tweak with the crossover - adding or changing the Lpad. It's the one crossover change that is easy and can be done without measurements.

Regarding the Rotel, my comments were based on older Class AB Rotel amps. I haven't heard their newer amps which I believe are class D. I'm still a little wary of Class D amps for running full range speakers.