power amp for proac response d two

[daspaceman]

Hello guys ,

What power amp do you recommand for the proac response d 2. Currenly I have a rotel rmb1075 but I feel the proacs need a more refined amp. The preamp is a rotel RSP1069.

What do you recommand?

[02audionoob]

Why does the preamp have to stay? Will this amp be part of a home theater setup?

[daspaceman]

Yes a 5.1 system. I will be sharing the front speakers (proacs)

[02audionoob]

Just me...I'd be looking for a way to remove the preamp from the equation...although I'm sure the smart guys around here will come in and vehemently disagree. I heard a pair of these speakers with an Audio Research VSi60 and was very impressed. Someone will likely be along shortly to scoff at me on that one, too.

[daspaceman]

i`m looking for a hassle free class a/b power amp. I need the rotel preamp (which is very neutral) for surround duties.

[02audionoob]

So I guess then you still want a 5-channel amp. Interesting how similar your thread is to dr bud's here in this same section of the forum.

[daspaceman]

I need the 5 channel amp to power a centre, rears, and a 2.0 system in a bathroom. Then i want a dedicated power amp for the two fronts

[02audionoob]

Have you checked into Pass Labs?

[daspaceman]

nope... beyond my budget. 3000usd max

[02audionoob]

Rega Maia?

[Jack in Wilmington]

The Parasound Halo A52 would be worth a listen in my opinion. Also the Marantz MM8003 fits your criteria. Heard the Marantz at a local shop driving a full Paradigm Sig. setup and it was quite impressive.

[daspaceman]

Actually someone recommanded the rega exon 3,,, which are in monoblock format, and superior overall to the mias. what do you think? would it be a good match to the proacs?

thanks

[02audionoob]

I like that idea. I haven't heard the mono blocks, but if you like the sound of ProAc speakers you might like the sound of Rega amps.

[daspaceman]

audionoob.... how is the sound signature of rega? Is it a detailed sound?

[RGA]

Why not consider a quality integrated amplifier for two channel duties and just keep your system for home theater. You don't mention the source which if it is one of those DVD players pulling CD plyaer duty may be the biggest problem of all. This would require you changing out the speaker cables when you listen to 2 channel but that should not be a big hassle.

Not a big fan of Rega amplfiers - a dedicated Rotel preamp would probably be better IMO.

Dedicated 2 channel system makers tend to be better at 2 channel than surround sound amplifier builders. I guess I am saying if you want a BIG upgrade I would do it this way. The speakers are nice and I would get a real nice tube integrated from Mystere or Rogue Audio or perhaps a SS integrated from Sugden or Heed Audio.

[02audionoob]

It seemed to me the Rega gear did much of the same things well as the ProAc monitors it was connected to at the one boutique audio store in my town, last time I was there. It seemed like synergy, given that I'm a fan of the smooth, pleasant midrange of those speakers.

RGA's an expert/professional, so if I were looking, I'd certainly be checking out his recommendations. In fact, I'm going to check them out, anyway.

[RGA]

I did not want to diss the Rega - I have not heard the combination together while you have. I find Rega a little overly polite and in general their gear tries to sound like tubes - but I would rather just buy tubes because SS trying to do it sounds like SS trying to do it. I felt that way about the Saturn CD player that had a bit of a reverberation/warmth to them but never really sounded quite right. But the stuff I recommended probably cost a fair bit more than the Rega too so you have to put that into perspective.

Rotel is pretty good - I just would rather see a bigger upgrade since every upgrade costs a lot of money if you start replacing things (with resale value killing you). I would hold off from moves like Rotel to Rega (or vice versa) and go into either different designs or upscale designs. Tubes would add a new element but they're a lot more work and he may not want that.

Still it could be the source causing the grief.

[02audionoob]

...snip.. I find Rega a little overly polite and in general their gear tries to sound like tubes -...snip...

Exactly. I started out by recommending a tube amp, trying to hit that word "refined", and admittedly have still had been sort of circling my original thought.

[frenchmon]

RGA...what is it you like about Rotel? I've heard you say that more than once. I have the 1080 amp and I like it a lot. Its not bright like a few of the reviews I've read, and its not boring either. And for the price they seem to do a good job of doing what they do, but I've heard others say they don't like the Rotel sound...what is that ? I suppose they where talking about the CDP.

frenchmon

[daspaceman]

I would like to thank you all for your answers.

I do like the rotel/proac combo myself, but thought of taking my musical experience to another level by buying a dedicated power amp, just to power the new proacs VS using a 5channel power amp .I had the b&w dm602 for 10years, and now i`ve upgraded to these fantastic proacs d two, and would like to get more out of them.

As a source RGA , you`re right.. I`m using a dvd player, but is is connected with optical out , through the rotels DAC .. and the sound is very good when compared to using the analogue out of the dvd player. Nrxt month I`m buying an apple tv, and this will be my new source. I`m planning to connect it digitaly and let the rotels DAC in the peamp processor to do the music duties.

As four sound i am looking for a detailed but not overly bright sound, with a warm midrange and good enough low end. I did improve a lot when chaged from b&w to proacs, as the sound is very detailed, with exceptional midrange and very defuned and tight bass. I would like to continue to move more towards this direction. Would buying bigger rotel like the rb1080 help me get into this direction?

[02audionoob]

I guess I'd like to offer up this brief response to that last question...more power isn't more-refined power. It could even be the reverse. Warm midrange, good enough low end...you're describing something much different than more power, and something not at all unlike the Rega sound..or ProAc for that matter. Not that I'm recommending the Rega gear...I wouldn't be qualified to do that, but still...it's what I'm getting from what you've said.

[daspaceman]

Audionoob.. you`re not the only one recommanding me rega.. I` ve been recommanded by others too.. Maybe it does really work good together then! Also, from what i read...names that go well with proacs are primare and densen . Like to hear experiences from users of this forum.

Audionoob, is rega sound shut in? I mean is it detailed enough like a rotel?

[frenchmon]

I would like to thank you all for your answers.

I do like the rotel/proac combo myself, but thought of taking my musical experience to another level by buying a dedicated power amp, just to power the new proacs VS using a 5channel power amp .I had the b&w dm602 for 10years, and now i`ve upgraded to these fantastic proacs d two, and would like to get more out of them.

As a source RGA , you`re right.. I`m using a dvd player, but is is connected with optical out , through the rotels DAC .. and the sound is very good when compared to using the analogue out of the dvd player. Nrxt month I`m buying an apple tv, and this will be my new source. I`m planning to connect it digitaly and let the rotels DAC in the peamp processor to do the music duties.

As four sound i am looking for a detailed but not overly bright sound, with a warm midrange and good enough low end. I did improve a lot when chaged from b&w to proacs, as the sound is very detailed, with exceptional midrange and very defuned and tight bass. I would like to continue to move more towards this direction. Would buying bigger rotel like the rb1080 help me get into this direction?


Well I've got the Rotel RBH 1080 @200 a channel and I am really loving this amp. I have Canton speakers which has very good detailed mids and high frequencies and a good bottom end...Nice big and wide sound stage . The 1080 is more than enough for me...if you dont think the 1080 @200 watts is enough to drive the Proacs, you could go for the 1090 @380 watts per channel. Heres the review.http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/100rotel/

And it will be under your budget so you can get some good warm interconnects if you dont have any.

frenchmon

[02audionoob]

Audionoob.. you`re not the only one recommanding me rega.. I` ve been recommanded by others too.. Maybe it does really work good together then! Also, from what i read...names that go well with proacs are primare and densen . Like to hear experiences from users of this forum.

Audionoob, is rega sound shut in? I mean is it detailed enough like a rotel?

Although it's beyond my level of expertise to analyze or review, Rega gear helped me figure out what I liked. I suppose that's a little odd coming from someone who owns no Rega gear, but it's the way it played out. When I decided to try a little upgrading from my revolving door of Adcom components, I think the Rega gear was the first to hit the sweet spot for me, other than gear above my budget.

I don't know if there's anything the Rega gear I heard does exceptionally well, but I think it hits the middle beautifully and the bass was well-defined. My ears are very susceptible to fatigue, so if there's a perception of missing detail caused by perhaps a slightly rolled-off treble, I'd actually be all for that. And the guy next to me might be headed for the Rotel room.

[frenchmon]

Although it's beyond my level of expertise to analyze or review, Rega gear helped me figure out what I liked. I suppose that's a little odd coming from someone who owns no Rega gear, but it's the way it played out. When I decided to try a little upgrading from my revolving door of Adcom components, I think the Rega gear was the first to hit the sweet spot for me, other than gear above my budget.

I don't know if there's anything the Rega gear I heard does exceptionally well, but I think it hits the middle beautifully and the bass was well-defined. My ears are very susceptible to fatigue, so if there's a perception of missing detail caused by perhaps a slightly rolled-off treble, I'd actually be all for that. And the guy next to me might be headed for the Rotel room.

Does Rega have rolled off highs?

frenchmon

[audio amateur]

I've never understood why there is mention of 'rolled off' highs. As far as I'm concerned, manufacturers spec there machines to play the full spectrum of frequencies from 20 to 20KHz and often times well beyond these with no more than 0.5dB of variation.

[02audionoob]

I've never understood why there is mention of 'rolled off' highs. As far as I'm concerned, manufacturers spec there machines to play the full spectrum of frequencies from 20 to 20KHz and often times well beyond these with no more than 0.5dB of variation.

I was looking at some test data on my speakers and there appeared to be a variation from the specs in the lows. Although they could produce frequencies as low as claimed, they seemed to be at a lesser SPL.


Does Rega have rolled off highs?

frenchmon

Although I loved what I heard of the Saturn, I thought I was hearing something a little less detailed way up high. But I don't know of a trend.

[audio amateur]

I was looking at some test data on my speakers and there appeared to be a variation from the specs in the lows. Although they could produce frequencies as low as claimed, they seemed to be at a lesser SPL.
I was refering to amps/CDPs.

[02audionoob]

I was refering to amps/CDPs.

Makes sense. If I'm listening to a complete setup I suspect I'm not going to really know what's causing what sonic characteristic, anyway. My ears aren't that trained.

[frenchmon]

I was looking at some test data on my speakers and there appeared to be a variation from the specs in the lows. Although they could produce frequencies as low as claimed, they seemed to be at a lesser SPL.



Although I loved what I heard of the Saturn, I thought I was hearing something a little less detailed way up high. But I don't know of a trend.

Is there a chance it could have been the speaker?

frenchmon


edit: Never mind...I see you answered it in the question from AA

[audio amateur]

Makes sense. If I'm listening to a complete setup I suspect I'm not going to really know what's causing what sonic characteristic, anyway. My ears aren't that trained.
Speaker specs are a completely different matter. I agree that speakers' responses aren't 100% flat.. But when one says 'are the highs on the Rotel rolled-off?' I start asking myself questions.

[frenchmon]

Speaker specs are a completely different matter. I agree that speakers' responses aren't 100% flat.. But when one says 'are the highs on the Rotel rolled-off?' I start asking myself questions.


Who asked that? I know there is not such a thing especially with Rotel being a owner.I asked about the Rega because I had the same concerns as you.

frenchmon

[audio amateur]

Who asked that? I know there is not such a thing especially with Rotel being a owner.I asked about the Rega because I had the same concerns as you.

frenchmon
Well I suppose I was refering to you but if you say that you were asking because you thought the Rega may truly roll off the high frequencies then what I said is moot. However, it's not the first time I read about 'rolled-off highs' concerning components other than speakers and technically there is no such thing, unless of course, the unit is faulty...

[RGA]

RGA...what is it you like about Rotel? I've heard you say that more than once. I have the 1080 amp and I like it a lot. Its not bright like a few of the reviews I've read, and its not boring either. And for the price they seem to do a good job of doing what they do, but I've heard others say they don't like the Rotel sound...what is that ? I suppose they where talking about the CDP.

frenchmon

Rotel is not taken seriously I suspect because of price which is a shame - they're a lot better than they get credit for. Take the NAD bee amp that got piles of press - I directly compared that integrated to the Rotel RA-02 which got considerably less press but IMO sounded vastly better - and I try to avoid words like Vastly these days but there you go. The Nad Bee sounded broken in comparison. Recently I auditioned several units from Rotel - a power amp and preamp (RC 1082 - which I bought over an ARC). Rotel hangs in with gear it has no business hanging in with. yes it's still SS - yes Rotel had some hit and miss stuff over the years but they seemed to have gotten their act together and are back on track. I can't speak to their cd players which I have not auditioned recently but their pre/power amps are very good in their price range. My nearest and favorite dealer actually prefers the power amps to the new Brystons that cost a lot more - and they're a Bryston dealer. They have a slightly softer sound which while not as technically gutsy as a bryston they also don't sound fatiguing after 30 minutes.

Brightness in rotel power amps is a strange complaint. I suppose it depends on the model. If anything the one's I have heard lean the other way.

[daspaceman]

So RGA, in your opinion i should just buy a dedicated rotel poweramp to power my new proacs. What model do you recommand, the proacs are not as easily driven as my older b&w Dm602.. 91db Vs 88db... The Rotel RMB1075 drives them OK, but I think I can get out more out of them .. What rotel power amp do you recommand?

Thanks

[RGA]

I am not recommending a specific power amp - or that you necessarily stick with Rotel.

I personally would create two systems - one for home theater and one for 2 channel music. Power WILL NOT be an issue - the response 2 is something like 85-87db sensitive however according to what I have read never dips below 6ohms making this a very very easy speaker to drive - a 10 watt amp like mine would have no trouble at all with this speaker.

From Stereophile's measurements: "The Response Two is one easy speaker for an amplifier to drive, as can be seen from its plot of impedance magnitude and phase (fig.1), which only drops below 8 ohms in the lower midrange." http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/792proac/index4.html

Now that opens up a whole pile of options for you. Tube integrated amps from Grant Fidelity, Antique Sound Labs, Rogue Audio, Tri Audio, Audio Note, Mystere, and lots more. Or low power but excellent solid state amps from Heed Audio or Sugden. I should think many Brits have Sugden/Proac pairings.

[02audionoob]

I might be splitting hairs, but daspaceman's Response D Two speakers are a little more efficient than the Response Two described in the comment from Stereophile. ProAc's published number for the D Two is 88.5 dB. I think this further reinforces RGA's point about power.

[RGA]

Sugden was making 10 watt amps for a great many years from the late 60's through the 80's with a lot of those British speakers. Some tube amps are certainly "wussy" in that they start to sound like mush but Rogue and Grant Fidelity are in the 50 watt range and sound more like 500 watts. Rogue was driving Wilson Sophia IIs to very loud levels and would have no problem with most of the stuff on this board. I'd rather pay for quality watts than quantity watts. But this seems to be a tough notion for many to accept - two and half decades of marketing to overcome.

[daspaceman]

RGA.. what i can do is this.. buy a rotel Rc-1082 , and use it for 2 channel duties. The rc-1082 has an HT Bypass funtion which I can use for sharing the 2 proac speakers while watching music.
This way I leave the Rotel Rc1082 for 2 channel duties, and The RSP1069 (which is not a receiver by the way, it`s just an A/V preamp) for movies. But the question is this :
Is it worth it to use the rc1082 , as the RSP1069 preamp is very good already. Will there be a better performance by doing this?

[frenchmon]

RGA.. what i can do is this.. buy a rotel Rc-1082 , and use it for 2 channel duties. The rc-1082 has an HT Bypass funtion which I can use for sharing the 2 proac speakers while watching music.
This way I leave the Rotel Rc1082 for 2 channel duties, and The RSP1069 (which is not a receiver by the way, it`s just an A/V preamp) for movies. But the question is this :
Is it worth it to use the rc1082 , as the RSP1069 preamp is very good already. Will there be a better performance by doing this?

I think the RC 1082 is very much the brother of the RC 1090 which the 1082 replaced , The 1082 has the treble, bass and the HT controls which are not on the 1090. I believe these are two of the best preamps that Rotel made. I have the 1090 and it is a very good preamp.

frenchmon

[daspaceman]

Thanks Frenchmon... What I would like to know is whether there is adifference n performance is using an rsp1069 or a rc1080 preamp for hifi duties, and if it`s worth it or not!

[RGA]

I have not heard the processor 1069 so I can't say. If the 1069 does sound the same or very close then the problem may not be with your preamp. The 1082 is a pretty clean open sounding unit - I am using Shengya PM 150 tube hybrid monoblocks with good success - these are ridiculous high quality build mono block amps 150Watts (300Watts 4 ohms) and sound very good for the money ($2400 pair). I have seen very little at the price that has the uber construction quality - the pictures do not do them any justice.

I have also tried the preamp with SIm Audio and Rotel power amps and the sound with those were nice as well. Perhaps the problem you have is source or room related - or the speakers. http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/Shengya_CV15_PM150

[daspaceman]

Hello Rga...
I have no problems with my current setup... I really enjoy it :)
All I need is to upgrade the power amp as my current 5 channel amp has all it`s 5 channel used and I need a new power amp to power my new speakers :)
My current power amp is powering: the centre, two rears and a left & right speakers in a bathroom, so either I buy a very small power amp for the bathroom or I prefer to buy a gutsy amp for the proacs!
Am i clear now?... I know my english sucks , sorry!
So... for now I need a good dedicated power amp for the proacs and later on, I will buy a good dedicated stereo preamp with HT bypass to integrate both sysytems, sharing the front speakers.

Cheers from malta,
Kevin Brian

[frenchmon]

Hello Rga...
I have no problems with my current setup... I really enjoy it :)
All I need is to upgrade the power amp as my current 5 channel amp has all it`s 5 channel used and I need a new power amp to power my new speakers :)
My current power amp is powering: the centre, two rears and a left & right speakers in a bathroom, so either I buy a very small power amp for the bathroom or I prefer to buy a gutsy amp for the proacs!
Am i clear now?... I know my english sucks , sorry!
So... for now I need a good dedicated power amp for the proacs and later on, I will buy a good dedicated stereo preamp with HT bypass to integrate both sysytems, sharing the front speakers.

Cheers from malta,
Kevin Brian

Seeing that you have the preamp, just go and get a used Rotel amp...the 1080 would be good for you and not to expensive

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl?searchstring=rotel&B1=go


frenchmon

[02audionoob]

Well, Kevin...Your English certainly doesn't suck. :) ...and I'd like to ask this: What do you hope to hear from the ProAc speakers that you don't, already? I ask this because I think we've established you don't need more power. If anything you need better power. Right? That was the gist of an earlier RGA reply and the main reason I mentioned low-powered options, although RGA went even lower. I thought that's what I was reading into your first post.

[daspaceman]

Well, Kevin...Your English certainly doesn't suck. :) ...and I'd like to ask this: What do you hope to hear from the ProAc speakers that you don't, already? I ask this because I think we've established you don't need more power. If anything you need better power. Right? That was the gist of an earlier RGA reply and the main reason I mentioned low-powered options, although RGA went even lower. I thought that's what I was reading into your first post.

Hey audionoob..
My wife says my english sucks, but she`s an english teacher hehe

Exactly.. I need a better more refined power amp, but I dont want a tube amp. A quality power amp. I want more detail than the detail i`m getting from the rotel. Also i need a dedicated stereo preamp with an HT Bypass like the primare PRE30 which allows me to share the proacs while watching movies.
*I was recommanded the rega exon.. but i think it`s a tad shut in.
*Was recommanded a bryston ... whih i think i like from what i`ve read.
*Also i was recommanded a primare, but i`m afraid it`s too laid back, and a little shut in too.
* was also recommanded a densen
Any solidstate power amps that go with proacs and also have a stereo preamp which allows an ht bypass (to buy in the future)

Thanks

[frenchmon]

Hey audionoob..
My wife says my english sucks, but she`s an english teacher hehe

Exactly.. I need a better more refined power amp, but I dont want a tube amp. A quality power amp. I want more detail than the detail i`m getting from the rotel. Also i need a dedicated stereo preamp with an HT Bypass like the primare PRE30 which allows me to share the proacs while watching movies.
*I was recommanded the rega exon.. but i think it`s a tad shut in.
*Was recommanded a bryston ... whih i think i like from what i`ve read.
*Also i was recommanded a primare, but i`m afraid it`s too laid back, and a little shut in too.
* was also recommanded a densen
Any solidstate power amps that go with proacs and also have a stereo preamp which allows an ht bypass (to buy in the future)

Thanks



I want more detail than the detail i`m getting from the rotel.


Ok that makes no sense to me. Rotel not detailed? Explain please. Are you say the Rotel has less detail? Than what? IS your Rotel dull? The 1080 while not a very expensive is a very fine amp.


frenchmon

[daspaceman]

Ok that makes no sense to me. Rotel not detailed? Explain please. Are you say the Rotel has less detail? Than what? IS your Rotel dull? The 1080 while not a very expensive is a very fine amp.


frenchmon

For the price the rotels are very good amplifiers. I`m looking into amps like Classe audio and bryston , if you know what I mean. I want a small upgrade , and I need a new power amp. The brystons for example are a little bit more detailed with a little bit authority on the bass.

There is realy nothing wrong in rotel Amps. In fact I`m keeping my rotel rsp1069 + Rb1075 as I do love them.

[frenchmon]

For the price the rotels are very good amplifiers. I`m looking into amps like Classe audio and bryston , if you know what I mean. I want a small upgrade , and I need a new power amp. The brystons for example are a little bit more detailed with a little bit authority on the bass.

There is realy nothing wrong in rotel Amps. In fact I`m keeping my rotel rsp1069 + Rb1075 as I do love them.

I understand, hears one small positive opinion for you.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/127581/bryston-4b-sst-or-rotel-rb-1090#post_1424139


Levesque,

I also have the Studio 100s and had them with the Rotel RMB 1090 for a year. Last month the power switch started to act up, so my dealer let me borrow a bryston 4BST while the 1090 was being repaired. I like the way both amps sound with these speakers. I can't honestly tell you I heard a big night and day difference between the 2, especially at lower levels. What I did like more about the Bryston is that the amp is dead quite. With the Rotel I could hear some low level hiss through the 100s.
When the Rotel 1090 came back, my dealer let my trade it in for a Bryston 6BSST (3x300) I got this amp instead so I could power my Studio CC with it. I plan to trade in my Rotel RMB-1095 later(it powers my 4 surrounds right now) and get a 9BSST(4 channel version) or two 4BSSTs.
Since you can get either amp at the same price I highly reccommend the Bryston. The build quality is incredible and you can't beat the 20 year warranty!



frenchmon

[daspaceman]

I understand, hears one small positive opinion for you.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/127581/bryston-4b-sst-or-rotel-rb-1090#post_1424139





frenchmon


Thanks brother

[02audionoob]

Would you have an opportunity to audition a totally different amp with ProAc speakers at an audio shop? If so, what manaufacturers do they sell at that shop?

[daspaceman]

Hello,

I think i`m going for a class a integrated, I think the Sugden A21SE , as from what I read it matches very well the proacs.

What do you think?

[02audionoob]

Based on reply #20, paragraph 3, I like that choice. Too bad you don't live in a cold climate, though. The amp could serve double duty as a bathroom heater...:smilewinkgrin:

[daspaceman]

Based on reply #20, paragraph 3, I like that choice. Too bad you don't live in a cold climate, though. The amp could serve double duty as a bathroom heater...:smilewinkgrin:

I have an airconditioned living room shouldnt be a problem in summer.. and yes in winter it could be used AS a heather :P
Does it really get that hot??

I`m trying to locate a second hand sugden a21se or better still a master class integrated or pre/pow !

will let you know the outcome

[02audionoob]

I have an airconditioned living room shouldnt be a problem in summer.. and yes in winter it could be used AS a heather :P
Does it really get that hot??

I`m trying to locate a second hand sugden a21se or better still a master class integrated or pre/pow !

will let you know the outcome

I'm exaggerating a little, obviously. I ran a Google search on the words Sugden A21SE hot and got some results, so it's apparently a bit of an issue.

[RGA]

The Sugden is a SET amplifier - it's basically a SS version of a Single Ended tube amplifier. SET stands for Single Ended topology. IME Single Ended amplifiers regardless of tube or SS sound better even on tough to drive speaker.

The Sugden runs hot and some report issues with a hot volume knob as well. Used ones also often have the power on light fail - not a big deal but don't forget to turn it off!!

There is no question that the A21a and SE tube amps can be more finnicky - usually offer less features less power, run hot and anytime something runs hot it will likely fail sooner than something that does not. With well designed tube amps there is still the possibility that when a tube fails it will take the board it is sitting on with it. A well designed tube amp is usually a little larger and has separate boards so if the preamp tube goes it takes only the preamp board with it. Still you have to remember there are 60 year old tube amps that are still working just fine to this day. When a SS amp fails in a big complex receiver that you paid $5000 for it will probably end up being better off scrapped because there may not be any replacement parts for it and even fewer who would be able to figure out what failed. Tubes are simply - you look and it's usually either a cap or the tube - replace and your done.

If I were you I would really just try and build a separate 2 channel rig. Home theater is super - I want to build a home theater - I have been meaning to get to it for a decade but things keep coming up. Since you already have the rig - building the 2 channel is probably less expensive and can be a lot of fun.

Why not try another direction and see if tubes would be your thing? You can get cheaper tube amps than even the Sugden. For regular tube amps you could look at Grant Fidelity - they are coming out with a new tube integrated amp that is actually designed by Ian Grant and made in China.

It will be under $2k and called the W30GT after one of his favorite car engines. What makes it a bit of a killer amp is the features it has. It will have a tube heaphone amp section (not the cheap OP headphone out) which means it will be a full on tube headphone amp, it has preamp and power amp outs so you can run it as a preamp or as a power amp making it very versatile as an upgrade - the Sugden A21a has neither feature and costs nearly double. The GF amp also has a full on board digital to analog converter as well as USB inputs and I believe fully Blanced connections (not toally sure on this one) and remote. But it's not out yet. The prototype sounded nice at CES. Their stuff is built like battle ships.

My other favorite sub $2k tube amps is the Audio Note Kit One which expensive for a kit but uses higher quality parts than what you would normally see anywhere near the price. but you need to be able to use a soldering iron. http://www.audionotekits.com/index.html

The Audio Note kit one is a true SET but you would need relatively easy to drive speakes of ~90db sensitive or higher that don't have low impedance characteristics.

Various tube amps have pros and cons - 300b types sometimes sound softer and sweeter and lack a little grip of other types like 2a3 or 211's. So it requires careful speaker matching. KT 88's like in the Grant Fidelity Rita are uber powerful but lack a little nuance. My OTO uses EL84s which are "beautiful" but lack power at the frequency extremes offering a lusher slightly darker perspective - A jazz dream though.

The other thing about tube amps is that like light bulbs you need to replace them. EL84s offer the advantage that they are incredibly inexpensive compared to other types. You can spend a lot too but the cheaper options are many. 300b types can be $300 per tube to many thousands.

So if you think of going down the tube route and you see a tube amp you like - check out what type of tubes it uses and then check this site to see what a replacement will cost - http://thetubestore.com/

Also most tube amps require you to "bias" the tubes like a tune up on your car. The SET amps from Audio Note and some other SET amps autio bias - so you just take it out and stick the new tube in and you're done. With the GF amp you need to connect a volt meter and adjust the bias so you don't blow your new tubes.

Other tube makers I really liked at CES for a lowish price -

Rogue Audio http://www.rogueaudio.com/
Triode audio (japan) http://www.triode.co.jp/index_eng.html
Mystere http://www.mystere-usa.com/

Tubes can be a big pain in the arse - and the reason people put up with the infernal irritating things is, the sound! For most tube guys once you go this route - it's tough to go back - provided it was a good set-up to start with.

[ppat]

I have the Proac Response D Two's. Using them with a Cambridge Audio 840E preamp, and a NAD C275 BEE amp. This is a new amp for NAD, with a bunch of trickle down from their Master series. Sells for $1,500 CDN. It's 150 w/ch at 8 ohms, and 410 w/ch into 4 ohms.

For me this is a really good match. Lots of power, and an even presentation.

Ppat

[frenchmon]

Sugden was making 10 watt amps for a great many years from the late 60's through the 80's with a lot of those British speakers. Some tube amps are certainly "wussy" in that they start to sound like mush but Rogue and Grant Fidelity are in the 50 watt range and sound more like 500 watts. Rogue was driving Wilson Sophia IIs to very loud levels and would have no problem with most of the stuff on this board. I'd rather pay for quality watts than quantity watts. But this seems to be a tough notion for many to accept - two and half decades of marketing to overcome.

RGA...Is Rogue really that good? I had one time thought of Rogue as a possibility, but have read more than one review that said Rogue was noisy. Here is one such review.http://www.10audio.com/rogue_metis.htm

If there is noise, then how audible is it?


fenchmon

[K-High-Fi]

Hello,

I was thinking long ago having ProAc D two for music and 5.1 surrounds, I heard their design similar to Harbeth BBC but little smaller, can anyone please give brief description how they sound? How perform with high volume (I heard show some compression). Also is it good match to Krell KAV-500 amp?

Thank you.

[RGA]

RGA...Is Rogue really that good? I had one time thought of Rogue as a possibility, but have read more than one review that said Rogue was noisy. Here is one such review.http://www.10audio.com/rogue_metis.htm

If there is noise, then how audible is it?


fenchmon

I heard the Rogue gear at CES - heard no noise of any kind. Tube amplifiers though can suffer from noise issues but then so can SS - depends on the amp. Rogue makes many amps - maybe one is noisier or perhaps it was the specific unit.