Opinions Needed: Value of Ariston RD 11s

[poppachubby]

Here's a TT for sale locally. It would appear to be a great price, particularily when including the cart. I presently spin with a Harmon Kardon T35C, Technics SL-Q2 and Pioneer PL-516.

The HK stands out as the best performer, but they are all relatively similar in terms of fidelity. I have been looking hard at Thorens TD 160 mk II, but this table stands out as a great deal. I need to know how great.

Clearly it's an upgrade from my present tables. Ralph, is this the table you have in the garage? I would like to know from any experienced owners, what kind of upgrades could be done with this unit. Could this be "the one", aside from winning the lottery?

Thanks all.

http://london.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-electronics-Ariston-RD-11s-Turntable-Linn-Sondek-RARE-excellent-W0QQAdIdZ173020475

http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/kj/091205/175r7/0272ebg_20.jpeg

[JohnMichael]

That looks like a very nice table. Well cared for me thinks. If I had any concern it would be about any future parts needed.

[audio amateur]

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/aristonturntable.html

[E-Stat]

Ralph, is this the table you have in the garage? I would like to know from any experienced owners, what kind of upgrades could be done with this unit.
Same one, except has a SME 3009 arm. I won't duplicate all the comments to the post over at AA, but I will provide a pictorial history. It began life with an SME, later used a Transcriptors Vestigal, then a Grace 714, a Souther TQ-1 and returned to an SME when I moved the TQ-1 to a VPI Scout. Here are pics of all except the Vestigal.

Grace 714 balsam unipivot with Accuphase AC-2

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/ariston_grace.jpg

Souther TQ-1 with Shinon Boron Red

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/ariston_tq1.jpg

SME 3009 Type II Improved with Shure M97

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/ariston_sme.jpg

BTW, I added a Denon platter to replace the original circular bands on the platter.

rw

[E-Stat]

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/aristonturntable.html
I replied to his post over at AA and reference the same history. :)

rw

[poppachubby]

E, the Souther looks so amazing. Why did you get rid of it?

I emailed the seller tonight. I am trying to get him to accept a deposit to take down his ad. He's not sure about the model of AT cart on the arm. I think I'll ask him to take a photo. What carts sound good on this table?

[E-Stat]

E, the Souther looks so amazing. Why did you get rid of it?
Get rid of it? No, no, no. I gave it a new home on a VPI Scout along with a Dynavector DV-20X. You see, I have always been a tonearm guy. Back in the 70s, I worked at a hi-fi shop and did cartridge-arm installations on various tables. We sold SME, Dynavector, Grace, Transcriptors, and Mayware. The most challenging and rewarding when used with a Sonus Blue was the Transcriptors Vestigal. It is a unique design that looks something like a mantis in action with its pivot point at the headshell. The arm tube itself only moved in the horizontal plane. That design allowed it to track anything. Being of low mass, it was an ideal match for the high compliance Peter Pritchard cartridges. Here's a pic I found on the web curiously used with a Stanton 681.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/vestigal.jpg

Here's the TQ-1 with its current dance partner. I use it with a VPI HW-2 isolation base:

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/souther.jpg

Lou Souther's unique design was like a linear tracking Vestigal in its tracking ability. Although unlike the Vestigal, you could use lower compliance MC cartridges by adding multiple counterweights. For low mass cartridges, you selected the lightest (of about four) counterweights and situated it towards the rear of the arm tube for greatest leverage. With the Dyna, I use a very heavy one closer to the fulcrum and a smaller one inboard of that one used to fine tune VTF.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/souther_behind.jpg

The German firm Clearaudio purchased the rights to it and has made further refinements with three different derivative designs. Years ago, I heard this Reference:

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/clearaudio_ref.jpg

It had a far more massive and finely built version of the arm along with a nice table. The combo ran about $25k which immediately priced it outside my reach. I later heard the ultimate version, the Statement. Both the arm and the table are simply magnificent. It's price tag is more like that of a house.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/statement2.jpg


While the turntable is certainly important, equally so is the tonearm/cartridge.



What carts sound good on this table?
Allow me to rephrase your question. What carts sound good on this arm? It is the arm's mass and design that determines the optimum cartridge. My guess is that it would work better with medium compliance cartridges than say a higher compliance Shure M97. I'm thinking more like Stantons and high output MC models (my favorite). I use a Shure M97 with the SME since it is a lower mass arm.

rw

[nightflier]

E-stat, I have to believe that those heavy cables hanging off the SLT arm cause at least some problems, no?

[E-Stat]

E-stat, I have to believe that those heavy cables hanging off the SLT arm cause at least some problems, no?
I'm not sure what kinds of problem(s) to which you refer. Would you care to elaborate?

rw

[nightflier]

Do the cables pull down on the arm at all? Do they transmit vibrations?

[audio amateur]

What's the situation with the TT Pops? Any news?

[E-Stat]

Do the cables pull down on the arm at all?
The cables will necessarily provide a negligible amount of gravitational pull, but you could set a brick atop the arm tower and the only effect would be a need to re-level the turntable. All vertical movement of the arm rests entirely with the short assembly suspended from the tower. Perhaps you are not familiar with its operation.


Do they transmit vibrations?
All the right kinds! All kidding aside, the cables are quite pliable and don't *tug* on the arm if that is what you mean.

rw

[nightflier]

Good to know. Very nice tables, BTW!

[E-Stat]

Good to know. Very nice tables, BTW!
The Souther / Clearaudio arms are kinda tweaky to set up because of the number of variables involved, but once done they provide excellent performance. Mine is twenty-six years old. The current version, albeit improved over mine runs a cool $4500.

Clearaudio TT3 (http://shop.audiointelligent.com/product.sc;jsessionid=591E529C784B42F5B532CFAF382F B92A.qscstrfrnt01?productId=130&categoryId=4)

rw

[poppachubby]

What's the situation with the TT Pops? Any news?


Still need a few more purses to make good on the payment...

[E-Stat]

Still need a few more purses to make good on the payment...
Here is another one available that looks pristine (with the original platter rings) and with a period proper SME arm. Unfortunately, it is a bit pricier, but seems in the right ballpark. I like the pic of it side-by-side with its cousin.

RD-11s on Agon (http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1272009340&/Ariston-Turntable-RD-11s--/-RD)

rw

[nightflier]

E-stat, I think the technology that goes into a good arm is crucial - I consider the arm an extension of the needle > cartridge assembly. Considering the astounding scale that the arm represents to the events at the tip of the needle, and the fact that the pivot point is typically 9" away, the price of this technology is money well spent when it's done right.

[E-Stat]

E-stat, I think the technology that goes into a good arm is crucial - I consider the arm an extension of the needle > cartridge assembly.
Agree 100%. I've experimented with more arms than tables over the years.

rw