Need some advice on solid bookshelf speakers

[tbonebrown]

New to the forum but have referenced the site many times for reviews. Definitely some good reviews so I'm looking for some good advice. I am about to receive a new Rotel RA-02 (high current 40w/ch) stereo amp and am looking for a decent pair of bookshelf speakers to pair it with. The setup is for my man cave/ table tennis room, above my second garage. I would say 25 x 25 at the largest for area. These speakers will be set on built in shelves along windows with about 12 feet between them. I listen to all types of music and that would include hip/hop, reggae, bluegrass, jam band, rock, and old country.

I'm a fan of Paradigm speakers but am willing to branch out. I want to keep my cap on spending to under $300 and am willing to buy used so please let me know what you folks feel would suit me best. I can spend more, just don't want to. I am open to a small sub if need be too but curious to know what you audiophiles/enthusiasts would do?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[LeRoy]

Here is a link for the Mordaunt Short Aviano 2 bookshelf speaker if you're interested.
This is a bass dominant speaker though the details are there there is no edge to the HF and would fill your room better than a smaller speaker. About $500.00/pr

http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php

Here is the link for the Avant 902i. This speaker is lively and has bass that's incredible for it's size. Your room may be a tad to large for this speaker but what musicality you get from this speaker is really, really great. A bargain at $225/pr.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/speakers

Want to read reviews?
http://www.mordauntshort.com/reviews.php

[tbonebrown]

LeRoy,

Thanks for your reply. I'll read some reviews and see what others say as well. They sound like they have great reviews so I'll keep them on my list. I'll look into other models by Mordaunt Short as well!

Thanks again,

T.BONE

[MntnMan62]

You may also want to check out the thread titled Bookshelf Speakers. Like you, I am also on the hunt for a good pair of bookshelf speakers. There are a ton of great recommendations in that thread. I am honing in on the Silverline Audio Minuets. They are a tad pricey at $600 but they have received some glowing reviews, including one on Stereophile.com. I am talking to the owner to see if there are any dealers in my area to audition them. I'll post a response if I am able to listen. Good luck.

[tbonebrown]

will do, thanks Mntn Man!

[blackraven]

Take a look at the PSB B-25's or the Boston Acoustics CS-26's. These are in your budget and are great for the price. The PSB is a larger bookshelf and may be better suited for that size room. The Infinity Primus 162 is another decent budget bookshlf. I bought a pair of older 160's for my daughter and it has pretty good sound but you will want to use a sub with it for sure. You will probably want a sub with that size room. There are plenty on inexpensive subs that will fit the bill. Are you absolutely set on bookshelfs? There are a couple of good budget floor standers.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMB25

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BOCS26

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&Ntt=infinity%20primus%20p162&Q=&N=0&A=endecaSearch

Floor standers- http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS300

[rob_a]

The Rotel and PSB's match up very well, a clean tight low end and great imaging.
I have owned a pair of the Infinity's and would only recommend as a last option.

[Jack in Wilmington]

I just ordered a pair of Paradigm Atoms for my brother-in-law for his birthday. They list for $318 and are a great little speaker. I have an older pair of them (V2) and they still sound great. I took them down to my brother-in-laws beach house so he could see how they sounded. He had gotten some new furniture and his old Sony floor speakers didn't fit the room anymore. Now he took the Sony's home and put them in the family room and my SIL can't wait to get them out of there. Also if you can find a nice set of Usher S520's used on Audiogon they would fit the bill also.

[LeRoy]

LeRoy,

Thanks for your reply. I'll read some reviews and see what others say as well. They sound like they have great reviews so I'll keep them on my list. I'll look into other models by Mordaunt Short as well!

Thanks again,

T.BONE

Good luck with your selection.

LeRoy

[RGA]

If you buy used you can spend your $300 on 5-10 year old speakers that went for $700-$1200. You will likely get a much much better speaker than anything on the market new for $300.

Also if you are a little bit handy you could buy a speaker kit and put it together yourself - and in all likely-hood you will get better sound as a result. http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=769

As the Parts express guys noted - some of their kits that sell for $300 are pretty much the same as many of the standmounts sold as name brands going for $2,000. So if you can use a screwdriver it might be worth a shot.

[tbonebrown]

Thanks for your replies guys. I'm looking into all of them, researching them a bit. Here is another option. The store that I ordered the RA-02 from has, what appears, to be a sweet deal on some Elan THP650LS Dual 6.5" Front Stage Cabinet Loudspeaker. Anyone have any experience with these by chance?

Thanks again for you replies.

Also, I'm not against floor standers but would prefer the bookshelf sized as they will fit into the built-in bookshelf along the wall.

Hoping to score a set of Paradigm Studio 20s if they price is right. Older V2s but people rave about them so I'm willing to try them out.

[audio amateur]

Also, I'm not against floor standers but would prefer the bookshelf sized as they will fit into the built-in bookshelf along the wall.

This will probably make most members here cringe. You're a lot better off using dedicated stands with 'bookshelf' speakers

[JoeE SP9]

You should listen to aa about speaker stands. Contrary to the name bookshelf speakers rarely if ever sound good on bookshelves. Get some good stands that place the tweeters at ear height when seated. Place speakers and stands well away from room boundaries. Then experiment with small adjustments to get optimum sound.

Why bother buying good speakers if you're going to place them like they were "Bose" cubes.

What I or anyone else thinks about any speaker means nothing. Only you as the buyer user/listener can decide. What sounds good to me may not to you and vica versa. Trust your own ears. Don't buy any speakers unless you hear them first. Buy what you like, not what someone recommends.

[poppachubby]

Bookshelf, it is a bit of irony isn't it. Last place you want a speaker...

[KiltriP]

I understand how you like Paradigms, as I am a big fan of their higher end speakers. I picked up a pair of Paradigm Atoms off of craigslist and after a few months I decided to sell them to order something else. It worked out since I sold them for more than I paid. I actually ordered Wharfedale 10.1's and paid $299 for them and I am more than pleased with my decision. You could pick up some Wharfedale 9.1's easier than 10.1's at the moment and you could find them for under $300/pair anywhere. Check our PSB B5's or as someone else said some PSB b25's. I think with any of those you will actually be happier than with a lower end of Paradigms. I have heard that you can buy some Tannoy Mercury F1's for around $200 and that they are incredible. All of the ones i've mentioned are award winning speakers and all of them are under the $300 range. You won't be disappointed.

[tbonebrown]

I'll keep that Atom comment in mind, thanks. Everyone makes cheap stuff, very true.

The "bookshelf" is more of a 24" rail/bench that extends out from the wall and spans the entire length. Not ideal but it doesn't need to be.

I agree with your placement/stands comment JoeESP9 but this is for a man cave/ping pong room. I will not be sitting at all, rather moving around playing a game of table tennis with friends. I have my main listening area for that quality sit but a man can't spend all his time on the couch can he? Do you?

I don't agree with your second comment on buying only what I hear and not taking any consideration of what others think. I personally think I can benefit from what others have to state of their personal experiences, without hearing the hardware in person. The local dealer only has so much of a selection and it's not always the cheapest with the internet in play. I just thought it would be nice to hear what others thought or had experience on filling a larger room with a smaller Rotel amp and smaller speakers. I guess my question for you would be if you really feel that "What I or anyone else thinks about any speaker means nothing." why would you ever read my post and post a reply?

I appreciate the feedback from everyone, I'll keep looking and try to get to my local shop soon if I don't get a solid deal on the Studio 20s, Silverline Minuets, etc. I'm going down the path of high end speaker that are used. I've had one set of my Paradigms for 7 years and they sound as good as they did the first 3 months!

Thanks again folks and I'll keep ya posted on what I end up with.

[Feanor]

If you buy used you can spend your $300 on 5-10 year old speakers that went for $700-$1200. You will likely get a much much better speaker than anything on the market new for $300.

Also if you are a little bit handy you could buy a speaker kit and put it together yourself - and in all likely-hood you will get better sound as a result. http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=769

As the Parts express guys noted - some of their kits that sell for $300 are pretty much the same as many of the standmounts sold as name brands going for $2,000. So if you can use a screwdriver it might be worth a shot.
It's nice to see that Parts Express has expanded its speakers kit selection -- some nice looking options there, especially among their higher end kits.

I like this MTM format kit (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-783) with Usher drivers for US$455 ought to give strong competitions to $2000-3000 MSRP speakers from major manufacturers.

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large/302-783_L.jpg

[JoeE SP9]

I'll keep that Atom comment in mind, thanks. Everyone makes cheap stuff, very true.

The "bookshelf" is more of a 24" rail/bench that extends out from the wall and spans the entire length. Not ideal but it doesn't need to be.

I agree with your placement/stands comment JoeESP9 but this is for a man cave/ping pong room. I will not be sitting at all, rather moving around playing a game of table tennis with friends. I have my main listening area for that quality sit but a man can't spend all his time on the couch can he? Do you?

I don't agree with your second comment on buying only what I hear and not taking any consideration of what others think. I personally think I can benefit from what others have to state of their personal experiences, without hearing the hardware in person. The local dealer only has so much of a selection and it's not always the cheapest with the internet in play. I just thought it would be nice to hear what others thought or had experience on filling a larger room with a smaller Rotel amp and smaller speakers. I guess my question for you would be if you really feel that "What I or anyone else thinks about any speaker means nothing." why would you ever read my post and post a reply?

I appreciate the feedback from everyone, I'll keep looking and try to get to my local shop soon if I don't get a solid deal on the Studio 20s, Silverline Minuets, etc. I'm going down the path of high end speaker that are used. I've had one set of my Paradigms for 7 years and they sound as good as they did the first 3 months!

Thanks again folks and I'll keep ya posted on what I end up with.

Having been at this for a long time I've made plenty of mistakes with gear. The biggest and worst have all been speaker related. Every time I bought speakers that I ended up not liking it was because of a recommendation from someone else.
I suppose my being a planar speaker fan has some significance. After ESL's nothing else sounds right to me. For the last several months I've been looking for some bookshelf size speakers to replace a pair of Minimus 7's. It has been an eventful and unsatisfying journey. The speakers that get the best recommendations from others are usually the least satisfying to me.
Unlike some enthusiasts I rarely change gear once I've purchased it. This is probably why I place so much emphasis on auditioning gear before buying. I do agree that buying used high end is probably the best cost vs. performance wise. Whatever you do decide on I hope it's exactly what you want.
No, I don't spend all my time in my listening chair. Although, now that I'm retired the reasons for moving are not as many or important now. Having a substantial portion of my recordings on a PC's hard drive with remote access to it makes one even less liable to move.
Oh well, it's winter and we have plenty of snow outside. That gives me more reasons to sit and vegetate. I did shovel my sidewalk. It's a $50 fine if you don't.

Also, I follow threads like this in the hope that someone will mention something I haven't heard or considered. I really want to replace those Minimus 7's and planars are just not practical in my bedroom. Whatever I buy will get a listen first.

I'm looking forward to finding out what you finally get.

[tbonebrown]

Lots of snow JoeE and lots more coming I'm sure!

I took a half day and went to the "shop" today. I listened to a pair of B&W 602s that were there on consignment and realized I would probably need an amp to listen to them at the level I usually do, wiht that Rotel RA-02. The Rotel is only a 40W system so I would then end up purchasing a stereo power amp, costing me more. I listened to the Paradigm Titans through a Cambridge Audio 75W and was very impressed. I also listend to my current Cinema Micros (in another room with a Sonos amp) with a Paradigm PDR 8" and 10" on that same Cambridge system and it was pretty amazing how much the sub filled in for where the Micros fell short. I am now on the search for a sub to add to that Sonos system to improve that room as well.

I missed the opportunity on the Minuets today!!! They came up for sale and were sold in less then an hour or else I would have those in the mail...GrrrrrRRRrrrr. Thanks for the tip on those MtnMan!

I'll keep searching away and maybe find a good deal on the Titans, possibly bite the bullet and buy new, or keep the search alive for some others.

Thanks again for the feedback and I'll keep ya posted!

[Luvin Da Blues]

I may have to pick up a couple of these for this price, check it out


http://www.needledoctor.com/Mordaunt-Short-Avant-902i-2-way-shielded-bookshelf-loudspeakers-in-Black

[LeRoy]

I'll keep searching away and maybe find a good deal on the Titans, possibly bite the bullet and buy new, or keep the search alive for some others.

Thanks again for the feedback and I'll keep ya posted!

It's always great to get out on search and listen mission anytime. You must have had some fun doing that today.....but I gotta tell ya...you'd be much better off with the M.S Avant 902i's than with the Titans.

I have both the 902i's and the Aviano 2's and prefer the 902i's. Also, IRG (another forum member) recently purchased the 902i's and he says they shake his house when he cranks up the volume and you can read IRG's comments in his thread regarding putting together a frugal system.

I kid you not Tbone, the 902i's are great little speaker and I refer to them as unheralded classics. Just thought you might want more insight before you pulled the trigger on the Titans.

[tbonebrown]

Always fun going to Stereoland just a little dangerouns at times.

I ordered a pair of the 902i Leroy! They better sound as good as you say!! :incazzato: LOL

I can't go wrong for $250 right? That's is pretty d@mn cheap. I'll keep looking for a set of the Titans and do a side by side on my systems and let you know what I think.

Anyone ever listen to the Wharfedale Evo 2-10 by chance?

[LeRoy]

Always fun going to Stereoland just a little dangerouns at times.

I ordered a pair of the 902i Leroy! They better sound as good as you say!! :incazzato: LOL

I can't go wrong for $250 right? That's is pretty d@mn cheap. I'll keep looking for a set of the Titans and do a side by side on my systems and let you know what I think.

Anyone ever listen to the Wharfedale Evo 2-10 by chance?

I know you're gonna love them. The 902i's $225/pr punked my Usher S-520's $425/pr in a no contest kind of way. I also thought the 902's were more musical than my Nola Mini's $695.00/pr, and Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's @ $250/pr. The Usher's, Nola's, and Wharfedale's have been kicked off the curb now and only the Mordaunt's remain in house.

Nope, I never have had an opportunity to hear the Evo's. Well, if you do a side by side with any other speaker, regardless of brand, model, or $, I sure would welcome your opinion and commentary.

:23:

LeRoy

[tbonebrown]

Leroy, what type of music are you listening to on these 902is?

I'll let ya know what I think as soon as I get them. I then get back to ya at a later date once I do the side by side!

[LeRoy]

Leroy, what type of music are you listening to on these 902is?

I'll let ya know what I think as soon as I get them. I then get back to ya at a later date once I do the side by side!

Primarily Jazz and New Age music. Also, I listen to some electronic music and rock. To name a few artists....Boney James, Patricia Barber, Boz Scaggs, Tosca (which is a Japanese band that plays primarily electronic music but the music is not ethnic), David Gray, Rickie Lee Jones, Corrine Bailey Rae, 9 Inch Nails, Jesse Cook, Enigma, Sade,
Ceu, Norah Jones, Stellamara, Denise Young, Aine Minogue (Celtic music), Soloman Burke, Massive Attack, Kem, a variety of Middle Eastern and Flamenco, and too many others to list.

[RoadRunner6]

These are very well built (7 year warranty) and should be a good match with their relatively high 92dB sensitivity and your modest amp for $298.


http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html

[audio amateur]

My recommendation would be to buy some older second hand speakers. You'll end up paying a lot less and may well find a bargain. If you have a nice setup upstairs why do you need a decent Rotel amp downstairs? If you're not going to do critical listening I would sell the Rotel (or keep it as a backup for the upstairs system if you don't need the money) and buy a second hand, maybe a good vintage amp for downstairs. There are bargains to be found!

[tbonebrown]

So funny Leroy. I received my order receipt from The Needle Doctor and I see that it's the old shop I went to at the University of MN campus! I'm heading down there today to grab the 902i and skip the shipping fee.

Things just happen for a reason I guess. Thanks for sending out that link to the MS 902i and I'll let ya know what I think of them when I give them a listen.

The seller (retail shop in Jersey) forgot to include the power cable to my Rotel RA-02 when they shipped it to me so I have to wait to recieve that before I can listen to them on the amp they will most like be powered by.

[tbonebrown]

My recommendation would be to buy some older second hand speakers. You'll end up paying a lot less and may well find a bargain. If you have a nice setup upstairs why do you need a decent Rotel amp downstairs? If you're not going to do critical listening I would sell the Rotel (or keep it as a backup for the upstairs system if you don't need the money) and buy a second hand, maybe a good vintage amp for downstairs. There are bargains to be found!

I got a great deal ($249) on the second amp, the Rotel RA-02, so I figured why not?

[tbonebrown]

LeRoy, just got home with the 902i set and they seem to be a very solid build and sound pretty good so far. Still waiting on that power cord for the Rotel so they are currently hooked up to my Sonos system. Can't really tell right now but they sound much better than my Paradigm Cinema Micros, which was expected.

Once again, thanks everyone for your replies and I'll keep you posted once I do the A/B compare on the Mordaunt Short Avant 902i and hopefully a set of Paradigm Titan v5.

Thanks again!

T.BONE

[poppachubby]

LeRoy, you should be working on commission bro...Mordaunt Short salesman of the year!

[audio amateur]

I got a great deal ($249) on the second amp, the Rotel RA-02, so I figured why not?
Right right, I realise my post was a little late. I hope you enjoy your new MS. But just be mindfull of what I said in the future, there are second hand bargains to be had in this hobby.

[tbonebrown]

Update....I just did a quick side-by-side with the Mordaunt and the Paradigm and Paradigm Micros are much brighter than the 902i at this time but I'm hoping that is just due to break-in time on the fresh out-of-the-box 902s. I'm playing a Karl Denson album and the horns and lead guitar are much brighter and prominent on the Paradigms! I do have to admit though, the 902s are kicking the pants off the much smaller Micros when it comes to bass and low end. Time will tell I guess.

The power cable for the Rotel is going to be here tomorrow from what FedEx says so I can give them a real test on a real system soon.

Canada vs England..it's my own little Olympics going on in my house. I know some are partial to the British sounding speakers and amps but I just may not be one of them. We'll give them their fair break-in time before I make any real decisons!!

[poppachubby]

Paradigms always get their azzes kicked in the low end but are super revealing and detailed in the mid. This is their sig...congrats on the speaks, sounds like you're having fun.

[frenchmon]

Hey pappaC what Morgan is that?

frenchmon

[LeRoy]

Well who'd a thunk that the audio shop that sells the M.S. is driving distance from you.....pretty good karma there..lol

Your'e welcome for the M.S. links.

Ya, I am eager to know of your listening experience with everything you hook up the M.S. to. I just want to be sure that you have the speakers hooked up correctly because the M.S. should be more revealing in the high frequency as they are very detailed but without any spit, hash, or harshness to the sound. IMO, the M.S. should surpass the Titans in detail and transparency in every aspect, HF, Mids, and LF.

Just to be a nag....if you are not bi-wiring the speakers be sure it's the outermost speaker posts that you are hooking up to the amp. The right end speaker post is the positive connection and the left end speaker post is the negative connection.

I'll check back to see if you got better results with the Rotel. Enjoy the Music.

LeRoy

[LeRoy]

LeRoy, you should be working on commission bro...Mordaunt Short salesman of the year!

Man, I sound like a broken record on this site when it comes to speaker recommendations..lol

I think I need to pass the M.S. Olympic torch to someone else...

Take care P.C.

LeRoy

[poppachubby]

Hey pappaC what Morgan is that?

frenchmon

It's Vol.3, good album with "I Remember Clifford" on it. I'm on a Freddie Hubbard kick right now...

[tbonebrown]

I have them wired correctly Leeeeroy! LOL No, thanks for asking but I did look at the insert when I saw the biwiring option, outsides for speaker posts. They have already seemed to open up a bit but I still think/hope the highs will open up a bit more.

FedEx said the 5000+ flights that were cancelled on the east coast in the past few days is the root cause of my delay in shipping. I guess due to mother nature I will grant them a pass.

I'm still going to get a set of Titans to do a compare. You have me truly wondering if these little 902s can hang with them. Titan's sounded damn fine in the store but these 902s may sound damn fine when that DAMN power cable gets here!

Later,

T.BONE

[LeRoy]

The only time the 902's did not impress was when I used the NAD 545 CDP as a source. That was so dull sounding that I never played the 545 again and just got rid of that player this past weekend.

Just as an FYI, the amplification I use with the 902s is Rega Brio 3 @ 50 wpc. I've also used the 902's with Belles Soloist Amp and Belles Soloist pre-amp. The sources I use are the Musical Fidelity X-Ray and recently I acquired the Stello Transport and have that hooked up to the Musical Fidelity V-DAC. I've used the 902's in the Stello/Belles configuration also with very musical results.

So, I am really perplexed as to why the HF and mids are falling short for you as I think the strong suit of the speaker is the HF and mids with enough bass output to make them sound really balanced. I'll check back later and hopefully the power cord has arrived by then.

What are you currently using as a source and amplification with the 902's?

[tbonebrown]

LeRoy, right now I'm just using my Sonos system....

http://www.sonos.com/whattobuy/zoneplayers/zp120/default.aspx?rdr=true&LangType=1033

Nothing too fancy so that's why I can't wait for the power cable to arrive. That's the real test!

More to come.

[LeRoy]

How's everything now? Got the power cord yet?

[tbonebrown]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you folks. I DID get the power cord and then I went out of town for a bit. Here is my bit on the Paradigm Cinema Micros and the MS 902i:...then Monitor 7s

The Mordaunt Short 902i have much more bass and low end but the high end does not beat out the Micros in any way at all. It may be my ear (and I have listened to plenty of live music and loud A$$ home stereo in my day to damage them) but here is what I hear....snare drum (weird...I know) , lead guitar (solos, high picking), etc, seem to be muffled and not nearly as prominant on the MSs as opposed to the Micros. The Micros "sing" much more in this area than that of the 902is. The 902i seem to provide a "stage" much more than that of the Micros. It just seems to fill the middle space much better so you have that feeling of the music being right in front of you more as opposed to stage left, stage right. Not sure if that makes sense to you all or not but that's what i'm going with on my description. :) sound stage maybe?? The 902s are much better for lower end music though, such as rock and roll or hip hop, much better and some really tight impressive bass for such a small cabinet. When listening to bluegrass or guitar music though the micros are better on the high end but definitely lack on the lower end and don't have that tight solid bass to them, no matter where you put them! They are cheap, made for cinema, and small. I didn't really expect much out of them but they will work well in my office when I beef that up. I'm choosing the MS 902i as beating out the Micros overall as the Micros fall way short in areas that the 902i only come in a close second to. Bottom line, both speakers are a grrrreat value for the cost, $139 Micros and $250 for MS 902i. With that being said, I'll bring up my room size again, 25' by 25' at largest but less square footage due to the dormers being on the second floor. 45 degree wall/celings etc...you get the point. Overall a larger room with some tough angles and poor acoustics. Bookshelf speakers at this level are not cutting it. Here is what I ended up doing....

Purchased a set of Paradigm Monitor 7 v4 off clist.org ($225) and put those out there this afternoon. Wow does that sound 10 times better than either of those bookshelf speakers! I had a hunch it may. :) It's doing a d@mn fine job of filling the room with quality sound even at high levels, which the others could not.

So what do I do with the other sets you may ask? Well I have moved the MS 902Is back to the Sonos in my upstairs living room (not my main listening area) and plan to use those until I get my new sub I ordered the other day. Should be here in a few more days, Paradimg PDR-10 V3....last Canuck made version before The China Man took over production. Once I receive the new sub I can hook them up to the bookshelf speaks and see how that goes.

LeRoy, sorry I can't do the side by side comparison on the Titans vs your mini monsters, aka 902i, but I'm done buying cheap speakers for a bit. I'm impressed with them though and I truly would recommend them to anyone looking for a great value in a bookshelf speaker using them in a smaller room but not a large room, as expected I'm sure. The floor standers are the way to go for a room that size but I'll let ya know where I end up after the sub gets here. I assume I can wire the MS 902is into the high posts and see what happens there. Not an option on the Micros but I'll keep ya posted on my testing once I receive it!

Take care and thanks for all the input folks!

T.BONE

[tbonebrown]

Oh yeah, for anyone wondering about the Rotel RA-02. It's sweet for 40W per channel!!!! I would say it's just as loud and much more crisp at high volumes than my old Harmon Kardon AVRXXX that was running 100or125W/channel!

The Paradigm Monitor line are such efficient speakers. Especially with the Rotel (they match up well if you ask me) as it will get too loud in that 25x25 room with the RA-02 pushing the Monitor 7s, trust me.

Highly recommend the RA-02 amp for a cheap amp in a second listening area if you are on a budget and have effiecient speakers.....aka....no B+Ws or Paradigm Studio, etc.

[LeRoy]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you folks. I DID get the power cord and then I went out of town for a bit. Here is my bit on the Paradigm Cinema Micros and the MS 902i:...then Monitor 7s

The Mordaunt Short 902i have much more bass and low end but the high end does not beat out the Micros in any way at all. It may be my ear (and I have listened to plenty of live music and loud A$$ home stereo in my day to damage them) but here is what I hear....snare drum (weird...I know) , lead guitar (solos, high picking), etc, seem to be muffled and not nearly as prominant on the MSs as opposed to the Micros. The Micros "sing" much more in this area than that of the 902is. The 902i seem to provide a "stage" much more than that of the Micros. It just seems to fill the middle space much better so you have that feeling of the music being right in front of you more as opposed to stage left, stage right. Not sure if that makes sense to you all or not but that's what i'm going with on my description. :) sound stage maybe?? The 902s are much better for lower end music though, such as rock and roll or hip hop, much better and some really tight impressive bass for such a small cabinet. When listening to bluegrass or guitar music though the micros are better on the high end but definitely lack on the lower end and don't have that tight solid bass to them, no matter where you put them! They are cheap, made for cinema, and small. I didn't really expect much out of them but they will work well in my office when I beef that up. I'm choosing the MS 902i as beating out the Micros overall as the Micros fall way short in areas that the 902i only come in a close second to. Bottom line, both speakers are a grrrreat value for the cost, $139 Micros and $250 for MS 902i. With that being said, I'll bring up my room size again, 25' by 25' at largest but less square footage due to the dormers being on the second floor. 45 degree wall/celings etc...you get the point. Overall a larger room with some tough angles and poor acoustics. Bookshelf speakers at this level are not cutting it. Here is what I ended up doing....

Purchased a set of Paradigm Monitor 7 v4 off clist.org ($225) and put those out there this afternoon. Wow does that sound 10 times better than either of those bookshelf speakers! I had a hunch it may. :) It's doing a d@mn fine job of filling the room with quality sound even at high levels, which the others could not.

So what do I do with the other sets you may ask? Well I have moved the MS 902Is back to the Sonos in my upstairs living room (not my main listening area) and plan to use those until I get my new sub I ordered the other day. Should be here in a few more days, Paradimg PDR-10 V3....last Canuck made version before The China Man took over production. Once I receive the new sub I can hook them up to the bookshelf speaks and see how that goes.

LeRoy, sorry I can't do the side by side comparison on the Titans vs your mini monsters, aka 902i, but I'm done buying cheap speakers for a bit. I'm impressed with them though and I truly would recommend them to anyone looking for a great value in a bookshelf speaker using them in a smaller room but not a large room, as expected I'm sure. The floor standers are the way to go for a room that size but I'll let ya know where I end up after the sub gets here. I assume I can wire the MS 902is into the high posts and see what happens there. Not an option on the Micros but I'll keep ya posted on my testing once I receive it!

Take care and thanks for all the input folks!

T.BONE

I was wondering where you went and glad you came back to provide your findings. I am glad you found what you needed in the floor standers and wish the M.S. had fit your needs better.

Yes, the M.S. can be bi-wired and hopefully you will be better able to extract the HF that you are seeking. That's cool that you still find some value and use of the 902's even though they are not going to be primary speakers.

So, what is the config.. Rotel, Paradigm Monitors 7 v4, digital source?, speaker wire?, and interconnects?

[tbonebrown]

Rotel RA-02
Monitor 7s connected with Python 10 gauge
iPod connected with iPod supplied headphone to RCA cable

I know it's pretty low budget but it's sounding pretty good. If you think the connects would make a large difference please let me know what you use or what you would recommend. Same on the speaker wire but I don't need to spend $100 on wire as I think the currrent Pythons are doing quite well. Thoughts?

I used to only use store purchased CDs kicking through my main stereo but with the digital world coming on so strong I had to go with the iPod and Apple Lossless compression. I had a coupld hundred CDs and a few others did too when we started out digital music library. We're up to 700+ full albums now and love the quick access to all the music...especially shuffle or genre shuffle! I have a pretty decent setup with nice Rotel and Paradigms in my main listening area and the other buddy has a nice Magnepan set connected to a high end separates system. We both agreed that although we can hear a difference we were impressed at the quality of sound coming out of the Apple Lossless files so we converted all our music many years ago.

I briefly looked into a DAC when I was at The Needle Doctor (remember roping me into getting those 902Is? :) ) and they said it would definitely improve your sound. Well I read later from an article or two that the iPod acutally uses one of the best manu. for their DAC. I'm wondering if if would acutally make much of a difference? Do you have any experience in this digital setup at all?....ANYONE? If so, please comment.

I'm now looking into somehow connecting those Micros to my PC...any experience with those cheap Pyle mini amps at all or would I be best looking for an older receiver amp to get what I need? I may start a new thread on this topic as I've looked on audioreview.com and didnt' see much under my search.

blah...blah....blah...LATER! :10:

[tbonebrown]

If those Micros sound better with that new sub I may end up with those M.S. connected to my PC via some amp!

[frenchmon]

...last Canuck made version before The China Man took over production

Did Paradigm start production in China?

frenchmon

[Feanor]

Did Paradigm start production in China?

frenchmon
Not the last I heard -- though I might have missed the email.

Certainly PSB has shifted all production to China, parts and assembly. A few months ago Paul Barton, in a TAS or 'Phile interview, (don't rememeber which), was ecstatic about doing business over there. He felt he could design, build, and deliver a better product with off-shore production; (up yours, NA workers). Judging by the recent, highly favorable reviews for PSB speakers in various price ranges, he has a point.

Still kudos to Paradigm for holding for North American production, (assuming that is still indeed true). But for practical purposes we can kiss off production of all mass market and mid-range goods in North American and Europe. And entrepreneurs like Barton needn't be so smug: Chinese entrepreneurs abound and will are already promoting their own designs and brands -- at least some of which are highly compeditive in performance and quality with western-designed goods.

Chinese brands will have established a solid, popular reputation somewhat before NA and European workers' wages will have fallen enough to make production in these places feasible once again.

[LeRoy]

Rotel RA-02
Monitor 7s connected with Python 10 gauge
iPod connected with iPod supplied headphone to RCA cable

I know it's pretty low budget but it's sounding pretty good. If you think the connects would make a large difference please let me know what you use or what you would recommend. Same on the speaker wire but I don't need to spend $100 on wire as I think the currrent Pythons are doing quite well. Thoughts?

I used to only use store purchased CDs kicking through my main stereo but with the digital world coming on so strong I had to go with the iPod and Apple Lossless compression. I had a coupld hundred CDs and a few others did too when we started out digital music library. We're up to 700+ full albums now and love the quick access to all the music...especially shuffle or genre shuffle! I have a pretty decent setup with nice Rotel and Paradigms in my main listening area and the other buddy has a nice Magnepan set connected to a high end separates system. We both agreed that although we can hear a difference we were impressed at the quality of sound coming out of the Apple Lossless files so we converted all our music many years ago.

I briefly looked into a DAC when I was at The Needle Doctor (remember roping me into getting those 902Is? :) ) and they said it would definitely improve your sound. Well I read later from an article or two that the iPod acutally uses one of the best manu. for their DAC. I'm wondering if if would acutally make much of a difference? Do you have any experience in this digital setup at all?....ANYONE? If so, please comment.

I'm now looking into somehow connecting those Micros to my PC...any experience with those cheap Pyle mini amps at all or would I be best looking for an older receiver amp to get what I need? I may start a new thread on this topic as I've looked on audioreview.com and didnt' see much under my search.

blah...blah....blah...LATER! :10:

I am not familiar with Ipod's, Ipod connectivity, or Ipod sound quality. Somewhat recently I had purchased a Musical Fidelity V-DAC $299.00 and thought it might improve the sound of my M.F. X-RAY CDP and as it turned out the DAC in the X-RAY produced SQ that was more favorable than the V-DAC so that experiment did not go as hoped for. However, the V-DAC was a definite improvement over the Toshiba Laptop DAC connected to the Evolved Sonic amp/transmitter. Real recently I had an opportunity to get really acquainted with the Naim DAC and that is state of the art, $4K. No way I can afford that kind of audio SQ.

I will have to ask my audio buddy who is also a cable builder how Ipod connectivity and SQ can be improved or tweaked. I'll have to get back to you on that. For speaker wire I currently use Chord Carnival Silver Screen, 8ft, and I have two sets, one bi-wire, and one set only that is 2-conductor. I will be replacing the CCSC 2-conductor speaker wire with Blue Marble Audio speaker wire (and the only reason I am doing that is because the MBA wire was a gift). The BMA wire is excellent, worth the $$, but pricey.

As far as system building goes....everything piece makes a difference...IC's, speaker wire, power cord, amp, speakers, source....all of comes together to produce the final sound.

[frenchmon]

Not the last I heard -- though I might have missed the email.

Certainly PSB has shifted all production to China, parts and assembly. A few months ago Paul Barton, in a TAS or 'Phile interview, (don't rememeber which), was ecstatic about doing business over there. He felt he could design, build, and deliver a better product with off-shore production; (up yours, NA workers). Judging by the recent, highly favorable reviews for PSB speakers in various price ranges, he has a point.

Still kudos to Paradigm for holding for North American production, (assuming that is still indeed true). But for practical purposes we can kiss off production of all mass market and mid-range goods in North American and Europe. And entrepreneurs like Barton needn't be so smug: Chinese entrepreneurs abound and will are already promoting their own designs and brands -- at least some of which are highly compeditive in performance and quality with western-designed goods.

Chinese brands will have established a solid, popular reputation somewhat before NA and European workers' wages will have fallen enough to make production in these places feasible once again.


Its just to bad eveythings being built overseas when we need work here in the states.

frenchmon

[LeRoy]

I spoke with my audio dealer buddy who has a couple of Ipods of his own. My buddy said unless you get an Ipod dock like Wadia or Naim that allows you to bypass the DAC of the Ipod then your Ipod DAC will be the only DAC you will be able to use. As I understand it, Bel Canto is also working to get a license for their own Ipod dock too.