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devuonoste
02-08-2010, 01:55 PM
I plan to eventually purchase a turntable and am wondering if it's possible to get a good quality turntable less than $500. I also would like to have everything included in that price, like tone arm, etc.

Also, I will be getting a tube amp within the next couple of months and was told it has a tube complement of: 4 6550's/KT88's, 2 12ax7's and 2
12au7's. I was told it only has only one available line stage input and there is no phono stage. To be honest I'm not exactly sure what a phono stage is exactly. I am wondering what the best approach to take would be, as I would like to hook up my CD player and a turntable to this amp but there's only one input. Would I have to buy a phono stage and a line stage adapter that could allow more than one input? If anyone has any helpful information it would be much appreciated. Thanks

poppachubby
02-08-2010, 02:44 PM
I plan to eventually purchase a turntable and am wondering if it's possible to get a good quality turntable less than $500. I also would like to have everything included in that price, like tone arm, etc.

Also, I will be getting a tube amp within the next couple of months and was told it has a tube complement of: 4 6550's/KT88's, 2 12ax7's and 2
12au7's. I was told it only has only one available line stage input and there is no phono stage. To be honest I'm not exactly sure what a phono stage is exactly. I am wondering what the best approach to take would be, as I would like to hook up my CD player and a turntable to this amp but there's only one input. Would I have to buy a phono stage and a line stage adapter that could allow more than one input? If anyone has any helpful information it would be much appreciated. Thanks

There are several fantastic options under $500 which would include a cartridge also (needle).

You can begin by looking at the Pro-Ject Debut, Music Hall 2.1 or the Denon DP-300f. These are all fine tables. If you wanted to go used, you could step up in quality. There are great used tables available also.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Debut-III-Turntable-Multicolor_5

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP-300F-Fully-Automatic-Turntable?sc=2&category=46

http://www.needledoctor.com/Music-Hall-MMF-2-2LE-Turntable?sc=2&category=46

You will need a pre-amp for your tube amp. This will allow you to connect several sources, control the tone and volume, and output to your amp. You will need one with a phono stage otherwise you would have to buy an external one.

What kind of budget would you be looking at for a preamp?

02audionoob
02-08-2010, 02:49 PM
Tell us more about this amp. 12ax7's are preamp tubes.

devuonoste
02-08-2010, 02:58 PM
I don't have a lot of info on this amp other than it is an integrated tube amp that has the tube complement I mentioned and has two volume knobs, one for each channel and it is 50 or 55 wpc. I was told it only has room for one input.

02audionoob
02-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Then maybe what you need is a phono preamp and a source selector. The phono preamp is the box that brings the turntable signal up to line level and the source selector controls which one goes to the integrated amp. The Denon DP-300F has its own phono preamp if you decide on that model.


Lots of phono preamps...

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Phono-Preamps


Example of budget source selector...

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc716pp.html


Example of budget phono preamp...

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750pp.html

devuonoste
02-08-2010, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the info.

I'll have to do some research on source selectors and phono pre-amps. I don't want to spend a ton but I want to ensure the source selector does not reduce the sound quality of my CDP by using the selector vs plugging the CDP directly into the amp. Also, want to ensure the source selector does not degrade the sound quality of the turn table as well. It sucks having to deal with an amp that allows for only one input and no phono stage; however, it is supposed to sound amazing with my speakers for 2ch.

02audionoob
02-08-2010, 07:18 PM
I hear what you're saying about source selectors and I suspect I'd be concerned about them, too, but remember...a preamp is a source selector, in addition to pots, gain stages, switches and other controls. And preamps are in very good systems. It seems to me degradation would usually be less with a simple source selector than a preamp.

Of course, you can always aim higher, depending on budget...

http://www.goldpt.com/sw4.html

blackraven
02-08-2010, 07:51 PM
Thanks for the info.

I'll have to do some research on source selectors and phono pre-amps. I don't want to spend a ton but I want to ensure the source selector does not reduce the sound quality of my CDP by using the selector vs plugging the CDP directly into the amp. Also, want to ensure the source selector does not degrade the sound quality of the turn table as well. It sucks having to deal with an amp that allows for only one input and no phono stage; however, it is supposed to sound amazing with my speakers for 2ch.


Take a look at Niles Audio. They make high end quality selectors. I use an amp selector and cannot hear any degradation of sound.

http://www.nilesaudio.com/product_detail.php?recordID=Source%20Switching%20S ystems&categoryID=Switching%20Systems&catcdID=10

Check ebay as they sometimes become available. My amp switcher sells for $150 and I picked it up on a bid on Ebay for $10. The guy begrudgingly sold it to me.

devuonoste
02-08-2010, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the info, I really appreciate the input.

JoeE SP9
02-11-2010, 04:32 PM
I hear what you're saying about source selectors and I suspect I'd be concerned about them, too, but remember...a preamp is a source selector, in addition to pots, gain stages, switches and other controls. And preamps are in very good systems. It seems to me degradation would usually be less with a simple source selector than a preamp.

Of course, you can always aim higher, depending on budget...

http://www.goldpt.com/sw4.html

Thanks for the heads up on Goldpoint. One of their attenuators would be a good change for just about any preamp. I'm thinking about my ARC SP-9

poppachubby
02-11-2010, 04:50 PM
Thanks for the heads up on Goldpoint. One of their attenuators would be a good change for just about any preamp. I'm thinking about my ARC SP-9


You're thinking about selling me your SP9? Sounds good...

JoeE SP9
02-11-2010, 05:42 PM
R' you tryin' t' gimme a case of preamp withdrawal!?:out:

dean_martin
02-11-2010, 07:19 PM
Pro-Ject is bringing its RPM1.3 to the US in March. Apparently it's been a popular table in Europe. Comes in black, red and white. Price will be $499. I'm interested in reading what the audio press has to say about it.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-RPM1-3-Turntable-in-Black?sc=7&category=947

Not too long ago musiciansfriend.com carried the Technics SL-1210 Mk II for around $450. I picked up one for $389 during a sale. Haven't seen it on their site lately but it's one worth looking around for.

devuonoste
02-12-2010, 11:10 PM
I'd like to thank all of you for all your input.

nightflier
02-16-2010, 02:02 PM
Dean, that Pro-ject table looks really nice. I was just about to go for a Rega P2, because of the RB250 arm and the positive write-up in Stereophile, and it's being offered as a special in several places, but the Pro-Ject is another option for me.

I know it sounds a bit petty, but I really like the clean lines on the P2. And I know the anti-skating tether is important on the Pro-ject and MH arms, but it's another one of those things I'd rather not have dangling there. In a perfect world, I'd be looking more up-market (Clearaudio/VPI), but I think I need to go simpler this time around.

P.S. Does the new Pro-ject table come with a dust cover?

JohnMichael
02-16-2010, 02:20 PM
Dean, that Pro-ject table looks really nice. I was just about to go for a Rega P2, because of the RB250 arm and the positive write-up in Stereophile, and it's being offered as a special in several places, but the Pro-Ject is another option for me.

I know it sounds a bit petty, but I really like the clean lines on the P2. And I know the anti-skating tether is important on the Pro-ject and MH arms, but it's another one of those things I'd rather not have dangling there. In a perfect world, I'd be looking more up-market (Clearaudio/VPI), but I think I need to go simpler this time around.

P.S. Does the new Pro-ject table come with a dust cover?



The Rega P2 is a good table to begin with and there are so many after market parts to increase the performance. The sliding adjustment for antiskating allows finer adjustment than the three notches for the string and weight with the Pro-ject/Music Hall arms.


One thought I wanted to add was that when I was shopping for my Rega I was discouraged from the Rega Planar 3 due to the spring for tracking force. Many feel the spring can resonate and stretch over time. Most of the after market counterweights advise turning the tracking force dial until it has no influence over the arm and then add tracking force with the new counterweight.

dean_martin
02-16-2010, 08:01 PM
Dean, that Pro-ject table looks really nice. I was just about to go for a Rega P2, because of the RB250 arm and the positive write-up in Stereophile, and it's being offered as a special in several places, but the Pro-Ject is another option for me.

I know it sounds a bit petty, but I really like the clean lines on the P2. And I know the anti-skating tether is important on the Pro-ject and MH arms, but it's another one of those things I'd rather not have dangling there. In a perfect world, I'd be looking more up-market (Clearaudio/VPI), but I think I need to go simpler this time around.

P.S. Does the new Pro-ject table come with a dust cover?

Dust cover doesn't come with it. Someone reported on it from CES so I thought I'd check the usual online table dealers for availability.

My older Pro-Ject table has an arm with the weight and fishing line anti-skate. I've used the same notch setting with three different carts based on the manual's suggestions with no problems. Even someone who's all thumbs like me can loop the line in the right notch on the second or third try. After it's set, there's nothing else to do. I was concerned about its accuracy at first. It didn't seem like it would be precise, but it's really a "set it and forget it" feature. It's position at the back of the table keeps it out of the way.

I've considered the P2 too, especially when the last of the glass platter tables were on clearance. It's probably the safest purchase in that price range for those of us who have to shop for turntables online.

02audionoob
02-16-2010, 09:33 PM
Dean, that Pro-ject table looks really nice. I was just about to go for a Rega P2, because of the RB250 arm and the positive write-up in Stereophile, and it's being offered as a special in several places, but the Pro-Ject is another option for me.

I know it sounds a bit petty, but I really like the clean lines on the P2. And I know the anti-skating tether is important on the Pro-ject and MH arms, but it's another one of those things I'd rather not have dangling there. In a perfect world, I'd be looking more up-market (Clearaudio/VPI), but I think I need to go simpler this time around.

P.S. Does the new Pro-ject table come with a dust cover?

I could have sworn you had a nice turntable, already. Am I confusing you with someone else? Pixelthis, maybe? OK...kidding on that part. :1:


The Rega P2 is a good table to begin with and there are so many after market parts to increase the performance. The sliding adjustment for antiskating allows finer adjustment than the three notches for the string and weight with the Pro-ject/Music Hall arms.


One thought I wanted to add was that when I was shopping for my Rega I was discouraged from the Rega Planar 3 due to the spring for tracking force. Many feel the spring can resonate and stretch over time. Most of the after market counterweights advise turning the tracking force dial until it has no influence over the arm and then add tracking force with the new counterweight.

I saw an exchange on the asylum today where someone said you're supposed to listen to a Rega turntable the way God and Roy Gandy intended, rather than circumvent that spring.
:shocked:

nightflier
02-17-2010, 04:28 PM
Yes, I have a MH MMF7. This is for another room/system, albeit, a more visited/seen one, so looks are important. Actually I'd also like to see how well a new $500 table compares to mine.

daviethek
02-18-2010, 05:28 AM
turntable selection depends to some degree your personal experience. For a novice, a reaonsable table would be a nice technics table and upper level Audio technica mm cart. Your total investment might be around 650.00. but you can't beat the durability and quality and most importantly, it is highly re-sellable if you get the upgrade bug. Sorry, I don't think re-sellable is a word.

nightflier
02-18-2010, 10:04 AM
Dean, can you point us to some reviews of that Pro-ject 1.3 project (sorry, I had to work that one in there)?

The red one sure looks flashy, IMO. I really wonder how it performs. BTW, what are the options for a 3rd-party dustcover?

02audionoob
02-18-2010, 10:56 AM
You could get a Gingko dustcover, but they're a little expensive...

http://www.gingkoaudio.com/claravu.html

Pro-Ject has one that's a big box, too...for something like $350. Or maybe you could get a glass/plastics fabricator to build one out of clear acrylic to your specs.

...and I wonder if this one will fit...

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/74473

nightflier
02-18-2010, 11:37 AM
Considering both are sold at Music Direct, I'm sure they have some suggestions. I have to imagine that the ubiquitous "Customers Purchasing This Item Also Purchased..." feature will give some clues as well.

As far as comparing it with my own table, I'm pretty sure the carts will be the deciding factor. That Sumiko on the Pro-Ject is OK, but it's clear they've skimped a little on that end - certainly not a fair match against my Goldring Eroica. Also, with dustcover, a better cartridge, I'm now nipping into the Rega P2 range.

One more question: all these budget tables are coming from abroad, I presume. So given our dollar's dismal slide against just about every other currency, that makes these imports a less appealing value. Is there anything made domestically that might offer much more bang-for-the-buck, or have all US manufacturers given up on this market sector. I'd be willing to consider some smaller mom & pop outfit too. Anything out there?

02audionoob
02-18-2010, 01:08 PM
It seems like even with the currency difference, Pro-Ject would always be able to do it far cheaper in Czech Republic than anyone could do it in the US.

nightflier
03-23-2010, 12:32 PM
I dare not ask this, but the fact that Pro-jects are made in Europe does bring the obvious other question to the fore: any decent TTs coming from the Far East at these price points?

02audionoob
03-23-2010, 02:38 PM
I dare not ask this, but the fact that Pro-jects are made in Europe does bring the obvious other question to the fore: any decent TTs coming from the Far East at these price points?

Denon DP-300F and Technics SL-1200 are all that come to mind.

nightflier
03-23-2010, 03:12 PM
Hmmm, I find it hard to believe that so little worthy of mention is being manufactured in China. They certainly have a taste for tubes, but not analog, it seems.

02audionoob
03-25-2010, 09:41 PM
There's the Opera Consonance LP6.1, for those not so interested in the sub-$500 range.

nightflier
03-29-2010, 12:45 PM
Wow that's an interesting looking Chinese-sourced table for $1K-ish:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1109/opera_lp61.jpg

JoeE SP9
03-29-2010, 03:11 PM
Check Grant Fidelity. $1000 USD. Does not include cartridge.


http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/JoeESP9/resizedLP61newwhitepulley.jpg

scrivens
04-21-2010, 06:33 AM
The project GENIE 3 (http://www.richersounds.com/product/turntables/project/genie-mk3/proj-genie-mk3) represents a lot of bang for your buck

nightflier
04-21-2010, 10:08 AM
I am very tempted. Has anyone here heard it yet?

RGA
04-24-2010, 11:26 AM
I would be inclined to recommend the SystemDek IIX (~$250Used) and then add a Rega 250 arm and have someone rewire it (with silver), and get an Audio Note acrylic platter. That would basically get you ver close to an AN TT1/Arm1 and the arm can house many cartridges. The TT1/Arm 1/IQ 1 goes now for about $1,700 and you can pretty much get the same thing for $600 going with SystemDek and arm and decent cart. You won't get the upgraded motor however.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/reviews/what_hifi_awards_2003_an_tt1.pdf

This article discusses the Systemdek (before my time) but they come up. And with AN taking it over you can still get parts and upgrades like two motors. They have also just released an external 2 motor system for it which also changes the speed selection. however it is costly. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/1204/joeaudiophile4.htm

I had the NAD 533 which is a Rega P2 - The TT1 is far better - not close.

Just to add - reading the enjoythemusic review it seems that Systemdek was already using the Rega arms and had a similar platter - so you would not have to buy those separately - in which case you could probably find one for about $250 and only have to add a cart. However with suspended designs you need to have non bouncy floors - and if you do you have to find a way to isolate the table. Whatever you do try and get a good audition - DO NOT buy without hearing them first because while some tables look cool and cost a lot that doesn't mean they're very good. People too often buy with their eyes.

jvc
04-24-2010, 04:55 PM
I'd keep an eye on Craig's List. You might be able to buy a much nicer TT used, than the price of a new one. I've seen some really nice Thorens on CL for around $350 - $400, everything included. With the economy like it is, some people are selling some good stuff, at good prices.
Good luck!

devuonoste
04-25-2010, 06:36 AM
I just want to thank everyone for all of their input. I will certainly be taking all this info into consideration when I purchase.

scrivens
05-07-2010, 09:35 AM
Pro-Ject is bringing its RPM1.3 to the US in March. Apparently it's been a popular table in Europe. Comes in black, red and white. Price will be $499. I'm interested in reading what the audio press has to say about it.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-RPM1-3-Turntable-in-Black?sc=7&category=947

Not too long ago musiciansfriend.com carried the Technics SL-1210 Mk II for around $450. I picked up one for $389 during a sale. Haven't seen it on their site lately but it's one worth looking around for.


Project seem to be leading the market for budget turn-tables here in Britain....a good starter range the genie-3 then upgrade the cartridge...up to the more mid-fi models

I like them