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dakatabg
02-04-2010, 11:29 AM
I have an equalizer question! I see that there are equalizer that start form 30 frequency, from 31, 31.5 and most of the time 32! Is it true that the lower the number the better?

Here is another question! Is it good to connect 2 equalizers one after another?

http://i46.tinypic.com/67p5ef.jpg

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-04-2010, 12:04 PM
Actually its the bandwidth the EQ covers that is most important. The EQ in the picture is a 10 band EQ that is basically too crude to use for anything.

The most common usable EQ is a analog or digital 1/3 octave 30 band EQ, where the first band begins at 20hz.

The better EQ's are digital 1/6, 1/10, 1/20 and 1/30 EQ's which the latter can basically correct most anything. The latter is extremely expensive, and I have not seen a lot of these around.

It is a terrible idea to cascade two EQ's together. The phase issues alone with this setup would be enough to turn anyone off on it.

harley .guy07
02-04-2010, 03:11 PM
I will add with what STtT said that using an EQ is something that takes understanding the properties or sound reproduction and what musical information is at different frequencies and using an EQ without having knowledge in how to use it can often lead to unnatural sound that is extremely boosted at the frequency extremes and hollowed out in the midrange. I seen it many times where a person without knowledge of how a EQ can help a system will just do the scoop thing that they have seen others do which in most cases makes the sound of any speaker system unnatural but to it over emphasizes the bass and upper treble so it has a since of better sound to the sound uneducated.

E-Stat
02-04-2010, 05:11 PM
Is it true that the lower the number the better?
While the apparent picture of the typical *smiley face* settings as illustrated looks smooth, in actuality it would result in a roller coaster of peaks and valleys ending up with a most unnatural sonic result.


Here is another question! Is it good to connect 2 equalizers one after another?
Do you understand there are sonic compromises made to the signal integrity in terms of phase and distortion with even one in the path?

rw

dakatabg
02-04-2010, 09:53 PM
Thanks for answering my questions! I was curious because I was using realistic equalizer and I changed it with a teac and the Teac sounded much better and the realistic eq started from 32 and the teac from 30 so thats why I asked!

For connecting one after another I asked because I saw a friend who did that and he had way too much bass but the sound was still clear!

EYEdROP
02-05-2010, 11:48 AM
To the OP: Make sure you take care of other problems first such as speaker placement and getting rid of echos inside your room. Then use EQ very last. The less EQ you have to use, the better because of less distortion. Thats why putting 2 together is a bad idea

The best way to EQ is this: Use a parametric equalizer. It lets you specifiy exactly what frequency you want to adjust and the width of the adjustment. Graphic equalizers like your teac only have 10 different pre-determined frequencies. A parametric Equalizer is much more precise.

What you want to do is download a program called SineGen for Windows. Slide the frequencies up and down and listen for frequencies that get suddenly louder. Whatever frequencies get louder, you want to turn down on the EQ. Whatever frequencies are too quiet, raise on the EQ. You want every frequency to sound the same volume level if that makes sense.

It takes patience since the human hearing can hear 20,000 frequencies.

audio amateur
02-05-2010, 01:18 PM
I have an equalizer question! I see that there are equalizer that start form 30 frequency, from 31, 31.5 and most of the time 32! Is it true that the lower the number the better?

Those numbers correspond to the frequency that you can boost or reduce. Whether that first frequency is 30, 31, 31.5 or 32Hz makes very little difference. Those types of equalizers are more of a gizmo than anything. They most probably do more harm then good. Beside, if you want to be accurate you'll want to work with an SPL meter. A 10 band equaliser, as Sir TtT said, is not going to be able to flatten the whole frequency spectrum.
If you're system is mediocre, there's no harm in using an EQ. If you want something better, leave it out:)

audio amateur
02-05-2010, 01:21 PM
the realistic eq started from 32 and the teac from 30 so thats why I asked!


lol, I'm suprised you think you got an answer to that. I don't think anyone understood that part, that's why I've chimed in.

E-Stat
02-05-2010, 02:14 PM
Whether that first frequency is 30, 31, 31.5 or 32Hz makes very little difference.
You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Here's (http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/30-39.mp3) a single frequency sweep from 30-39 hz. Each frequency lasts ten seconds. Try it out!

rw

audio amateur
02-05-2010, 02:22 PM
You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.
Which is what I said no?

Here's a single frequency sweep from 30-39 hz. Each frequency lasts ten seconds. Try it out!

Sorry, no full range speakers or subwoofer here:)

E-Stat
02-05-2010, 03:26 PM
Which is what I said no?
Yes. It was intended for the OP to determine for himself. There is also the possibility that he shares the same situation as you.

rw

dakatabg
02-05-2010, 09:04 PM
Thanks for all the answers! Thats why we are here to help each other!

I have everything kenwood home and I see that the best equalizer is GE-1100

What do you guys think, is it good to get them or not?

http://i50.tinypic.com/343jksh.jpg

MikeyBC
02-06-2010, 12:01 AM
I have everything kenwood home and I see that the best equalizer is GE-1100

How are you seeing the best is the GE-1100 ? by the low number? 16 hz? Id avoid an eq with depth and delay-time controls. It may be alright to EQ a mild peak or a dip here and there but that's it, anything more and your creating more problems

16 hz is kinda useless for music unless you have a lot of very warped records, then you can cut the lowest frequencies to keep your woofers under control.

dakatabg
02-06-2010, 12:03 AM
I meant that the best EQ Kenwood has made is the GE-1100! Do you know any better Kenwood EQ ???

MikeyBC
02-06-2010, 12:29 AM
I meant that the best EQ Kenwood has made is the GE-1100! Do you know any better Kenwood EQ ???

Ok, I see. No I don't know of any better Kenwood EQ though I never really looked for one either.

MikeyBC
02-06-2010, 12:40 AM
Ok I looked, the Kenwood GE-7030 would be the one i'd buy if i had to buy a Kenwood...its a parametric.

dakatabg
02-06-2010, 07:24 AM
I have seen the GE-7030 but I never thought they will be better! Well I will start hunting for a good deal!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-06-2010, 09:43 AM
If you really want a EQ that will really help your system you should try a receiver with Audussey EQ

http://www.audyssey.com/technology/multeq/multeq-solutions.html

In all of my years calibrating home theater systems, this is the most effective system I have ever used by far.

MikeyBC
02-07-2010, 03:29 PM
I have seen the GE-7030 but I never thought they will be better! Well I will start hunting for a good deal!


Its a parametric eq which means you can alter the center frequency of each band of the eq...this gives it much more flexibility for frequency correction.

There are better and higher quality eq's out there but if you want to stay all Kenwood this is where I'd go. (GE-7030)

pixelthis
02-07-2010, 09:44 PM
If you really want a EQ that will really help your system you should try a receiver with Audussey EQ

http://www.audyssey.com/technology/multeq/multeq-solutions.html

In all of my years calibrating home theater systems, this is the most effective system I have ever used by far.

HATE to agree with sir talky about anything, but the Audyssey is a nice system,
even on my (reletively) cheap receiver(1,000$)
Not only does it set the levels but also "eq's" every speaker dynamically, which solves the problem of EQ on a 7.1 system.
Dont have mine on at the moment, preferring my music two channel straight, no chaser,
but the sound is very good with it.:1:

mijs
02-08-2010, 03:31 PM
I picked up an Ashly 572 PEQ a few years ago and it is SUPERB! Each channel has 5 fully parametric bands plus low and hi shelving filters. Quality is excellent and it is a scalpel when it comes to fine tuning. Discontinued now, but can be found on pro audio sites, ebay, etc.

dakatabg
02-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Here it is for $350 on ebay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ashly-PQX-572_W0QQitemZ250567362244QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item3a56fa86c4#ht_500wt_1182

I have never heard of this brand Ashly!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-08-2010, 04:20 PM
The major problem with the Ashly setup is that it is XLR connected only. That is a problem with the majority of HT equipment out there, even though it is a better connection. You still have to measure the room carefully before using this kind of product. If you don't know what you are doing with this thing, you can make acoustical problems electrical and phase problems as well.

For most folks that do not have the proper measuring equipment, I would advise you to pick a system that does the work for you. The Audussey system only asks that you set up the microphones in the best places for viewing in your room, and it does all of the rest. The results are ear opening to say the least.

eastcoaster
02-08-2010, 09:03 PM
I meant that the best EQ Kenwood has made is the GE-1100! Do you know any better Kenwood EQ ???
go with a soundshaper 2 if you want quallity

eastcoaster
02-08-2010, 09:25 PM
I have an equalizer question! I see that there are equalizer that start form 30 frequency, from 31, 31.5 and most of the time 32! Is it true that the lower the number the better?

Here is another question! Is it good to connect 2 equalizers one after another?

http://i46.tinypic.com/67p5ef.jpg
if you're gonna go with two equilizers one after the other you're gonna need an amp with a preamp in the back of it.with your pre out and main in inputs.do not try to hook it up through you tape monitor inputs.you'l need to go out from your amp from your pre out into your first eq main in,then from the pre out of eq #1 to the main in of eq #2 then pre out of eq #2 back to the main in on your amp. it will work but if you want to do it but i'd recomend hooking up a reverb wth an eq instead of two eqs.

dakatabg
02-08-2010, 09:30 PM
if you're gonna go with two equilizers one after the other you're gonna need an amp with a preamp in the back of it.with your pre out and main in inputs.do not try to hook it up through you tape monitor inputs.you'l need to go out from your amp from your pre out into your first eq main in,then from the pre out of eq #1 to the main in of eq #2 then pre out of eq #2 back to the main in on your amp. it will work but if you want to do it but i'd recomend hooking up a reverb wth an eq instead of two eqs.

That is exactly how I was thinking of doing it but like the other people said it will make the sound worse with 2 equalizers so it is better to keep only one!

I have a preamp and amp! Everything I have is separates!

mijs
02-09-2010, 08:14 AM
The major problem with the Ashly setup is that it is XLR connected only. That is a problem with the majority of HT equipment out there, even though it is a better connection. You still have to measure the room carefully before using this kind of product. If you don't know what you are doing with this thing, you can make acoustical problems electrical and phase problems as well.

For most folks that do not have the proper measuring equipment, I would advise you to pick a system that does the work for you. The Audussey system only asks that you set up the microphones in the best places for viewing in your room, and it does all of the rest. The results are ear opening to say the least.


The Ashly also has 1/4" inputs/outputs, common to pro-audio gear. Quality RCA to 1/4" connectors are available. I use this PEQ judiciously (my system requires a max of 3dB cut on any band, no boost anywhere) and the acoustical effect is stunning. Even though I have a full spectrum analyzer with computer analysis capabilities, I also trust my ears and quickly improved my 2-Ch audio system with minimal drama. It isn't hard or scary.

I'm not dissing the Audyssey system, nor have I used one. I'm just saying a high quality PEQ is a terrific piece of gear.

mijs
02-09-2010, 08:45 AM
That is exactly how I was thinking of doing it but like the other people said it will make the sound worse with 2 equalizers so it is better to keep only one!

I have a preamp and amp! Everything I have is separates!


I've GOT to ask this:

Why do you want (or need) TWO equalizers in your system?
:confused:

dakatabg
02-09-2010, 09:13 AM
I've GOT to ask this:

Why do you want (or need) TWO equalizers in your system?
:confused:

i was thinking that if i have 2 eq it will improve the sound quality but i was wrong. I was just curious and thats why i asked. That is the purpose of the forum to ask questions and to share knowledge

EYEdROP
02-09-2010, 09:14 AM
I think he wants two EQ's in attempt for even more bass/treble. His mission might be MAX SPL rather then HI-FI.

Just get an amp with lots of RMS watts if you want that.

edit: Basically, using EQ will only degrade the sound quality unless its done properly with a parametric EQ. But then again, what is your definition of sound quality? Some people like pumped up bass and treble but truth is a speaker sounds more ACCURATE without EQ (unless its done right). A speaker sounds LOUDER and more powerful with EQ. Its a tradeoff.

Are you looking for power or accuracy?

dakatabg
02-09-2010, 09:28 AM
that i like bass is true but i don't want to have so much that you can't stay in the room.

i was just curious like i said. I have eq and they improve the sound a lot and i was wondering how it will sound with 2 eq

EYEdROP
02-09-2010, 09:56 AM
that i like bass is true but i don't want to have so much that you can't stay in the room.

i was just curious like i said. I have eq and they improve the sound a lot and i was wondering how it will sound with 2 eq

Most people including myself use no EQ, no sound enhancers, no bass boosting, nothing. The reason for that is to try to get the most pure sound possible. When you add enhancers or boosters or EQ, it can make things sound very digital and fake, like processed and artifical. And sometimes EQ works good for one song but the next song is recorded differently so you have to re-EQ it. So many like me just dont use EQ at all.

If you notice that some stereos dont have EQ like a clock radio, TV, cheap boombox. Or most stereos are set with the EQ off by default when you open the box and plug it in brand new. Its basically the industry standard.

If you are looking to "spice" up the sound and fool around with EQ, effects, and enhancers, thats all personal prefrence. Add two EQ's if you want. Or you can use some of the Dolby enhancers and such. Just know that the more you alter the signal, the less it is to what was actually recorded.

mijs
02-09-2010, 10:01 AM
that i like bass is true but i don't want to have so much that you can't stay in the room.

i was just curious like i said. I have eq and they improve the sound a lot and i was wondering how it will sound with 2 eq


Got it.
I can relate to the "If some is good, more is better" philosophy, but not with EQs. : )
Good luck and have fun!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-09-2010, 10:55 AM
Most people including myself use no EQ, no sound enhancers, no bass boosting, nothing. The reason for that is to try to get the most pure sound possible. When you add enhancers or boosters or EQ, it can make things sound very digital and fake, like processed and artifical. And sometimes EQ works good for one song but the next song is recorded differently so you have to re-EQ it. So many like me just dont use EQ at all.

You are not getting "pure" sound even if you don't use enhancements or electronic acoustical correction. Pure sound means that your walls, ceiling, and floor play no role in what you hear, the sound is completely neutral. That is not the case at all, as the room plays a vital role in what you hear. No speaker is immune to room related reflections that cause havoc with time and imaging(and frequency response to boot).


If you notice that some stereos dont have EQ like a clock radio, TV, cheap boombox. Or most stereos are set with the EQ off by default when you open the box and plug it in brand new. Its basically the industry standard.

A clock radio, TV, and boomboxes have one thing in common - they all have small speakers relative to bookshelf or floor standing speakers. They do not have the frequency response, or the acoustical footprint of a regular speaker. Putting EQ in them is like putting tits on a male dog, it serves no purpose.


If you are looking to "spice" up the sound and fool around with EQ, effects, and enhancers, thats all personal prefrence. Add two EQ's if you want. Or you can use some of the Dolby enhancers and such. Just know that the more you alter the signal, the less it is to what was actually recorded.

When you realize what listening rooms do to sound, then you run out and get a RTA and the necessary equalization to correct it. Avoiding EQ is not going to make your sound better, it will just make it less optimized for the room the speakers sit in.

All speakers that are sitting in four walls need some type of electrical correction applied to them, especially in the bass region where the room dominates what you hear.

mijs
02-09-2010, 11:25 AM
Most people including myself use no EQ, no sound enhancers, no bass boosting, nothing. The reason for that is to try to get the most pure sound possible. When you add enhancers or boosters or EQ, it can make things sound very digital and fake, like processed and artifical. And sometimes EQ works good for one song but the next song is recorded differently so you have to re-EQ it. So many like me just dont use EQ at all.

Interesting, and I appreciate the "purist" point of view. Here's what I've found:

1. Except perhaps for acoustic instruments in an anechoic chamber (or outdoors), "pure" sound is an illusion. Its color changes with every iteration of the recording and playback process. Your cartridge, CD player, speakers, and listening room all add or subtract something from the original sound. A quality PEQ can return balance to an acoustical system.

2. A purely analog PEQ like the Ashly does not contribute a hint of "digitalness" or "processed" sound to the playback.

3. Of course, it all depends on how obsessive you are, but I use pretty much the same settings for most quality recordings. Sure, there's occasionally an old CD or LP that's recorded so poorly it screams for drastic EQ cuts, but newer recordings are pretty good.

I know it's not in vogue to use eqs, but in the right hands, a good one is a wonderful thing.

EYEdROP
02-09-2010, 11:34 AM
I agree the room has a huge affect on the sound. And yes, EQ can help with the room and bring balance back but ONLY if done properly with software and mics or with a good ear and sine sweeps. I use parametric EQ to tune the bass in my room because there are many suckouts and peak, which is typical in a domestic room. Eventually Id like to get some DRC unit or software.

Making a smiley face EQ like the OP is not a proper EQ.

poppachubby
02-09-2010, 05:39 PM
I use parametric EQ to tune the bass in my room because there are many suckouts and peak, which is typical in a domestic room.

Do you have any acoustical treatment in the room? I use 5 DIY bass traps to neutralize the bass. An EQ can't change a boomy room.

EYEdROP
02-10-2010, 02:00 AM
Do you have any acoustical treatment in the room? I use 5 DIY bass traps to neutralize the bass. An EQ can't change a boomy room.

I have layers of bed foam and arc shaped diffusers placed around my walls and ceiling. This made a huge difference in the mids and highs. I spent alot of time placing the foam and diffusers correctly. But I dont have any sufficient bass traps. I tried to make a DIY bass trap with lots of bedfoam and fiberglass rolled up with chickenwire, but it did not make much of a difference.

Im gonna order some Owens 703 soon.

poppachubby
02-10-2010, 02:43 AM
Here's a great DIY recipe for a bass trap. Start with the corners of the room (4), and add a couple more if you still need to.

http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/traps/traps.html

dakatabg
02-10-2010, 08:40 PM
I just got Yamaha GE-60! Does anyone know if they are any good ?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2eyw70p.jpg

JoeE SP9
02-11-2010, 02:12 PM
dakatabg;
Please don't get offended. The smiley face setting for EQ sliders is almost guaranteed not to make the sound better. That's one of the most common settings. Unfortunately it usually has nothing to do with better and/or more accuracy.

mijs
02-12-2010, 07:23 AM
I just got Yamaha GE-60! Does anyone know if they are any good ?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2eyw70p.jpg


No first hand experience with that model, but it should be pretty effective and fun to play with. You'll want to have ear plugs handy when you crank up the pink noise!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-12-2010, 09:53 AM
I just got Yamaha GE-60! Does anyone know if they are any good ?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2eyw70p.jpg

All of these little 10 band EQ's are utter trash. Don't waste your time with cheap EQ, it is not going to make your system sound better.

If you want effective EQ, It won't exactly be expensive, but it won't be as cheap and ineffective as these audiosource EQ variants.

dakatabg
02-12-2010, 09:57 AM
Thanks guys! I think I will just give up on the equalizer!

mijs
02-12-2010, 10:57 AM
Thanks guys! I think I will just give up on the equalizer!


Huh???

You said you just GOT the Yamaha.
:frown2:

dakatabg
02-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Huh???

You said you just GOT the Yamaha.
:frown2:

I work with electronics so I get a lot of stuff everyday! I buy and sell a lot so i have many thing at home!

I have

Kenwood ge-76
Teac EQA-20
Yamaha EQ-60
Marantz EQ-10
Technics SH-8066
BSR EQ-3000

and the list is endless! so the Yamaha can be sold in like a couple of days!

jjp735i
02-12-2010, 11:40 AM
I personally love my eq, Doesn't matter what any one states here. You might like it. The only ears that matter are yours.

jjp

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-13-2010, 09:57 AM
I personally love my eq, Doesn't matter what any one states here. You might like it. The only ears that matter are yours.

jjp

One reason one presents a question on this board is to perhaps get a little common sense, and balance of thought to go along with those personal ears.

We can fool ourselves into believing that anything is good, even if it is bad as hell.

eastcoaster
02-14-2010, 10:22 PM
The major problem with the Ashly setup is that it is XLR connected only. That is a problem with the majority of HT equipment out there, even though it is a better connection. You still have to measure the room carefully before using this kind of product. If you don't know what you are doing with this thing, you can make acoustical problems electrical and phase problems as well.

For most folks that do not have the proper measuring equipment, I would advise you to pick a system that does the work for you. The Audussey system only asks that you set up the microphones in the best places for viewing in your room, and it does all of the rest. The results are ear opening to say the least.

all you need is a sound level meter and an eq it will plug into

JoeE SP9
02-15-2010, 02:30 PM
I go with Sir T on this one. Although they can be fun to play with, in my 43+ years in this obsession I've never heard any inexpensive 10 band equalizer make anything sound better. I stopped trying to make them work more than 20 years ago.

paulspencer
02-21-2010, 02:26 AM
I wouldn't touch the EQ units pictured here. If you want to do eq, do it right and it can make a huge difference. I use Behringer Ultracurve, which is a studio mastering processor with both parametric EQ and 1/3 octave band graphic eq. Everyone who has heard it on my system comments that the sound is more natural and balanced.

If you want to use EQ, do it right with a measurement mic. You can't eq by ear, it's like pin the tail on the donkey!

The biggest thing you want to fix is room modes, and that requires something more sophisticated than a 10 band graphic eq. At most those units change the balance a little, but they should be used moderately to do things like increase bass, reduce treble or pull back the midrange a little. If you do it then it should be a gentle curve. In general it's probably better to not use the units mentioned and if you do want to get into EQ, learn about it, measure and do it seriously.

To the purists, I suggest keep an open mind and consider that a considerable number of units including EQ, mastering processors, compressors are used in the studio. Is the last few metres of water pipe to your house the only part the matters, or is the 50km from the catchment to your house a bigger issue?

trans40
02-21-2010, 09:32 AM
I certainly agree with paulspencer's comment that a pro audio equalizer can do wonders for most systems, whereas 'big box' brand units are more likely to just add noise to the signal and change the sound in ways never intended by the artist and sound engineer.

I also use the Behringer Ultracurve DEQ-2496 - on two different systems. Start with some homemade bass traps, add the Behringer and a really comfortable chair or sofa, and you can take your listening to an entirely different level; primarily because you're canceling or compensating for room factors that are modifying the recorded sound before it gets to your ears. Modifying the analog output on the Behringer will take you yet another step along the way by improving the signal quality, providing the signal input to the Behringer is good quality.

Doug Mccomb
01-31-2014, 02:13 PM
HI; I got a Marantz sr7500 7.1 receiver, I was wanting to know how u hook up an EQ: too a newer receiver ,it also has sepperate 5.1 preamp outs...ty

JoeE SP9
02-01-2014, 08:01 AM
Traditionally an equalizer was/is connected using a tape monitor loop or an external processor loop. If you have pre out main in jacks you can also connect it between the preamp out and power amp in connections. However there may be noise related problems with this type of connection.

Equalizers are mostly for correcting room response aberrations. However, since most consumers treat them as glorified tone controls they are rarely set up correctly or used properly. Most modern AV receivers have no easy provision for connecting an equalizer. They usually include Audessy or some other type digital equalization. The built in digital types work better than just about any of the old graphic equalizers. The automatic equalization works better than the typical smiley face curve usually seen on graphic equalizers.

It's possible to correctly adjust a graphic equalizer. It requires test tones a measurement microphone and some time and effort.

Tone controls do a better job for program/source correction.

StevenSurprenant
02-04-2014, 09:28 AM
I agree, I've never owned a cheap EQ that didn't ruin the sound. I have a number of Behringer EQ's, both digital and analog and these are decent and relatively inexpensive. The analog EQ is a parametric, 4 bands for each channel.

I don't EQ the room because it already sounds good. I do have the analog EQ in the circuit for when I want to EQ a bad recording.

When I do EQ, I usually only raise or lower a frequency by a few db, at most.

Feanor
02-04-2014, 10:21 AM
I agree, I've never owned a cheap EQ that didn't ruin the sound. I have a number of Behringer EQ's, both digital and analog and these are decent and relatively inexpensive. The analog EQ is a parametric, 4 bands for each channel.

I don't EQ the room because it already sounds good. I do have the analog EQ in the circuit for when I want to EQ a bad recording.

When I do EQ, I usually only raise or lower a frequency by a few db, at most.
I've been using a FREE EQ that actually works very well. It is AIXcoustic Creation's Electri-Q (posihfopit edition) which is VST-compliant plug-in. (It requires George Yohng's VST plug-in for Foobar2000.)

Unfortunately the creator has decided he can no longer provide support for this EQ and his other software products.