tube cd player to add more musicality?

[nusiclover]

I am pleased to announce that music is sounding good in my home! I picked up my long awaited Audience 52se and MF A3.2 on Sunday and havent been able to stop listening since :)
i am very happy with the Dynaudio 52se. The musical fidelity amp has seemed very clear and precise but not at all involving (which was somethng i liked in the jolida tubes). I have a question: is it avisable or inavisable to incorporate a vacuum tube cd player (such as the jolida) to a ss amp? Would this help to make the music sound more involving?

[psonic]

If I read this correctly, these are new. They need to break in / burn in for 100hrs or so; that alone should give you a dramatic improvement. Enjoy...

[topspeed]

Psonic is right, you'll be amazed at the difference burning-in your equipment will make. Both speaks and amp will warm-up in sound and some of the shrillness will smooth out. Since you're burning in both amp and speaks, just put a cd on replay and leave it on for awhile. You don't have to make it real loud, normal levels should be fine.

After this, I'd check your speaker set-up and your room. Play around with the speaker locations and toe-in and make sure the room isn't overly "bright" with a lot of reflective surfaces. Just putting up some room treatments or corner traps will make a much more profound difference than changing out your cd player, imo.

Finally, if all else fails, Ah! makes a resonably priced tube output cd player based on a Marantz. The Noeb Tjoeb can be found at Upsale Audio in SoCal. I just saw a completely upgraded unit sell on e-bay last week for about $750.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/AH!/ahN.htm
Whether or not it sounds better than your current rig is up to you to decide.

Congrats on your new system. Be patient nusic, everything will come around. Enjoy!

[bturk667]

I am not sure of how much break-in will help. I find Musical Fidelity products to sound quite
a bit cool and clinical. They seem to lack the body and warmth of other solid state components, and of course tubes.

Are you happy with your present Cd player? Have you thought about looking into a tube Linestage or Pre-amp? I find outside a good passive linestage, the combination of a solid state amp with a good tube Linestage/Pre-amp will give you the best of both worlds. Just a thought.

[Geoffcin]

I am pleased to announce that music is sounding good in my home! I picked up my long awaited Audience 52se and MF A3.2 on Sunday and havent been able to stop listening since :)
i am very happy with the Dynaudio 52se. The musical fidelity amp has seemed very clear and precise but not at all involving (which was somethng i liked in the jolida tubes). I have a question: is it avisable or inavisable to incorporate a vacuum tube cd player (such as the jolida) to a ss amp? Would this help to make the music sound more involving?


Give that amp a lot of time before writing it off as cold SS. MF's have a long breakin, but it's worth the wait! MF uses a lot of the tech like choke regulation, that the use in their tube amps in the 3.2. It has been reviewed as "tubish" by some reviweres whatever the hell that means! I have an A3cr amp amp the thing is a champ, really great with my maggies.

Oh, if you want to go tubes in the CD player take a look at the Shanling. I think it's the most striking CD player I've seen. As to it being better, you'll have to listen.

[nusiclover]

these all seem to be good advice. i thank. i also know that some have told me that it isnt really a good idea to add a tube cd to a ss amp. would this mean that it could maybe not such a good idea to combine tube stuff with ss stuff in general? i am not familiar with the mechanics of it all and i agree that listening to different setups will help, but to get some precedent and groundwork out of the way first is also a great idea.
btw, drop some names of worth while cd players for under $1000 for me to look for.
and also, i have put in about 30 hours so far.

[RGA]

A tube preamp may help...but then that kind of makes the MF a bit of a waste so i understand why that would not be your first choice. Of course maybe it's not too late to change your mind and try the Jolida.

You could try an Audio note DAC which can be connected to a cd player with a DA out.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0200/anmeetsmsb.htm
http://www.audiolimits.com/html/body_audio_note_dac.html
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audionote_dac11.htm
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/50433.html http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/54130.html http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/76331.html

[topspeed]

these all seem to be good advice. i thank. i also know that some have told me that it isnt really a good idea to add a tube cd to a ss amp. would this mean that it could maybe not such a good idea to combine tube stuff with ss stuff in general? i am not familiar with the mechanics of it all and i agree that listening to different setups will help, but to get some precedent and groundwork out of the way first is also a great idea.
btw, drop some names of worth while cd players for under $1000 for me to look for.
and also, i have put in about 30 hours so far.

Ridiculous. LOTS of people mix tube pre's with ss amps to warm up the sound and kind of get the best of both worlds. Add a tube output cd player is the same thing. That Shanling tube cd that Geoff mentioned is one of the most beautiful audio components I've seen but I think it's around $3K. Could you imagine one of those next to a Hovland Sapphire? Drooool.......
http://www.hovlandcompany.com/products/electronics/sapphire/default.html#

[Geoffcin]

Ridiculous. LOTS of people mix tube pre's with ss amps to warm up the sound and kind of get the best of both worlds. Add a tube output cd player is the same thing. That Shanling tube cd that Geoff mentioned is one of the most beautiful audio components I've seen but I think it's around $3K. Could you imagine one of those next to a Hovland Sapphire? Drooool.......
http://www.hovlandcompany.com/products/electronics/sapphire/default.html#

Thanks for the link to the Sapphire. Wow that is cool looking!

I agree. Tubes and SS go together like peanutbutter and choclate. My buddy with the Classe 401 uses an ARC LS25 preamp with it, and I can tell you it's an impressive duo.

You can get a Shanling T100 on AudiogoN for about a grand used. The T200 with SACD will set you back 3 large, but that's still a bargain compared to so of the esoteric SACD players out there.

[paul_pci]

I am pleased to announce that music is sounding good in my home! I picked up my long awaited Audience 52se and MF A3.2 on Sunday and havent been able to stop listening since :)
i am very happy with the Dynaudio 52se. The musical fidelity amp has seemed very clear and precise but not at all involving (which was somethng i liked in the jolida tubes). I have a question: is it avisable or inavisable to incorporate a vacuum tube cd player (such as the jolida) to a ss amp? Would this help to make the music sound more involving?

Congratulations on your new acquisitions. I'm especially jealous of the Audience 53se. I went to my local audio shop over the weekend to give them another audition. I can't wait until I can afford my own pair.

As per the CD player, the Njoeb Tjoeb [new tube] seems to be all the rage, but if you don't live in So Cal, you probably won't be able to audition the unit.

[Woochifer]

Geez, if you're enjoying your new system so much, JUST ENJOY IT! Plotting the next upgrade before that new equipment smell wears off is overkill IMO. Take a deep breath and appreciate the improvement that you've already achieved!

Although tube equipment is different, in most cases swapping out the digital front end sources makes a minimal difference for a large investment. For whatever a tube CD player costs, you'd probably be better off investing that in getting your room acoustics set straight. For that cost, you might even be able to hire a professional to do a RTA profile of the room acoustics and go about making any necessary corrections with acoustic panels and/or bass traps. Even a layman approach that I took with buying a $16 box of acoustic ceiling panels at a building materials store and just lining them along the front wall made a very audible and measurable difference.

[magictooth]

A tube preamp may help...but then that kind of makes the MF a bit of a waste so i understand why that would not be your first choice. Of course maybe it's not too late to change your mind and try the Jolida.

You could try an Audio note DAC which can be connected to a cd player with a DA out.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0200/anmeetsmsb.htm
http://www.audiolimits.com/html/body_audio_note_dac.html
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audionote_dac11.htm
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/50433.html http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/54130.html http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/76331.html

RGA, just wondering whether you've heard the DAC 1.1x. I just bought one used on audiogon "ears unheard" and it should be arriving fairly shortly. I'm going to be attaching it to my Integra Research RDV-1.

[bturk667]

Have you ever heard Musical Fidelity solid state amps, and CD players? Their sound is not even close to that of tubes.

[nusiclover]

ok ok, so i understand that you can mix ss and tube. i do say that i like the idea of a tube pre and a solid power (like tops said "best of both worlds").
but my specific question was wether a tube cd will make much of a difference to a ss integrated. but, as i already know, the best advice will come from my own ears. and once again, i like asking things here because not only does it educate me, others too get to add their voice, and others still get to learn something new. i just didnt know my topics would be made so personal. like woochifer states "Geez, if you're enjoying your new system so much, JUST ENJOY IT! Plotting the next upgrade before that new equipment smell wears off is overkill IMO. Take a deep breath and appreciate the improvement that you've already achieved! " Yes, i listen to music a lot. And when im not listening to music at home im at the theater, hall, local pub. I guess i just love music. And i really enjoy coming to this site to learn more about my growing hobbie. Is it all that ridiculous? i dunno, seems topspeed may think so...lol.
Anyway, yes i have been pleased when it comes to my new system. But, something hit me hard last night. I was waiting for the initial breakin, to be fair, and then i finally played classical. I tried Mozart, Brahms, and a handful of others, and was really not feeling it. Could this be the ss? I mean, i was really not feeling the classical. Even operetic song did nothing for me. It was better, but still no cigar. I thought the symphony sounded dead and dull. Could this be THE definitive proof on the difference between ss and tube? From what i know , Dynaudio is really good with classical, so i am blaming either the amp or the cd/dvd.

[topspeed]

Just for the record nusic, I wasn't calling you "ridiculous." I was stating the concept of not mixing tubes and ss as ridiculous. (OK, maybe the doughnut that told you not to mix ss and tubes is ridiculous ;))

What you are "missing" is much more complex than simply tubes vs. ss. It's really the synergy between your speakers, amp, source, room, and most importantly your expectations. That last part is particularly important. In a previous thread, I warned against buying something that you had to convince yourself that you liked. The problem is that your subconscious has already sabotaged your perceptions of reality. I have a feeling that if we were to take Jimmy Neutronesque trip into your brain, we'd find a tube amp that you really wanted in the first place. Whether it actually sounds better than your current rig is irrelevant. It's what you want and therefore it's better, end of story.


Is this THE definitive proof on the difference between ss and tube?" For the rest of the world, of course not. For you, very possibly. Whatever you believe to be reality IS reality, regardless of other circumstances or facts. If you think SS amps aren't as good as tubes, you're right. If you think tubes aren't as good as ss amps...guess what? You're right again! Simple, huh?

Here's an idea that might help (for those of you that don't hold stock in the power of perceptions, stop reading now). Why not invite some friends over to hear your new rig, open a bottle of wine, throw on some enjoyable tunes, and revel in their compliments, ooh and ahhs for a good while. This will do your psyche wonders (human being's greatest need after sustenance is recognition, btw). Do this a couple of times. I think you'll be amazed at how much improvement you'll hear in your system.

Good luck and I truly hope you can enjoy the music.

[RGA]

The only issue of mixing tubes with ss is matching the impedences. There are good and bad examples of both out there.

[nusiclover]

in regards to you tops,
you are absolutely right. i will not doubt for a moment that after spending 3 large i came here looking for the "recognition" you speak about. after all, 3thou is a lot of money when you are still a renter. lol. actually, i shoulda come here months prior to buying anything. i was stuck with having to keep the set up i have now, or else selling it right away (which would be really ridiculous). Before i came on here the first time i had already spent the money at a HT first store. Then, to my surprise, i found that there were indeed speakers better than Dynaudio (i admit that priorly i didnt know this). But, i had already spent 3thou at a certain store and i had to work with what my options were. So, after extensive Q&A here i found that perhaps my best option would be to go with dyn&mf. Hopefully, if you have been following my threads for the past few weeks, you now understand what was going on. I wanted as unbiased a sampling here that i could, so i didnt mention that money had already been put down (not to mention how silly that was of an amateur audiophile). So, now in persuit of music fidelity (pun on me :)) i am trying to see what else can bring to life this sytem.
Cheers :)

[Geoffcin]

in regards to you tops,
you are absolutely right. i will not doubt for a moment that after spending 3 large i came here looking for the "recognition" you speak about. after all, 3thou is a lot of money when you are still a renter. lol. actually, i shoulda come here months prior to buying anything. i was stuck with having to keep the set up i have now, or else selling it right away (which would be really ridiculous). Before i came on here the first time i had already spent the money at a HT first store. Then, to my surprise, i found that there were indeed speakers better than Dynaudio (i admit that priorly i didnt know this). But, i had already spent 3thou at a certain store and i had to work with what my options were. So, after extensive Q&A here i found that perhaps my best option would be to go with dyn&mf. Hopefully, if you have been following my threads for the past few weeks, you now understand what was going on. I wanted as unbiased a sampling here that i could, so i didnt mention that money had already been put down (not to mention how silly that was of an amateur audiophile). So, now in persuit of music fidelity (pun on me :)) i am trying to see what else can bring to life this sytem.
Cheers :)

You didn't do anything silly at all. As a matter of fact you've got bigger cagones than a lot of people who sit on the fence forever, or tell themselves that there's no reason to want something better.

The good thing is that even though you spend 3k, a lot of your investment is still there, and will be there for as long as you own it. MF's hold value, and so do the Danes, so if in a couple years you want to check out something new you can just roll your stuff and not loose to much $$$. Some people disdain the fact that audiophiles are never satisfied, but I think it's just plain old fun to use different gear as often as I can.

I'll repeat it again; don't make a judgment on your system for at least 200 HR. Between the amp and the speakers there's a lot of breaking in going to happen. The Danes will go lower, and become richer/warmer, just you wait and see!

Also; You may want to try some audiophile grade CD's to see what your system is really capable of. You might just find out that the CD's you've been listening to are more of the problem then the system, which is now giving you the ability to hear how poorly they are recorded!

When in doubt just sit back and listen with some 18 year old single malt. Pretty soon it'll start sounding really good! ;o)

[topspeed]

in regards to you tops,
you are absolutely right. i will not doubt for a moment that after spending 3 large i came here looking for the "recognition" you speak about. after all, 3thou is a lot of money when you are still a renter. lol. actually, i shoulda come here months prior to buying anything. i was stuck with having to keep the set up i have now, or else selling it right away (which would be really ridiculous). Before i came on here the first time i had already spent the money at a HT first store. Then, to my surprise, i found that there were indeed speakers better than Dynaudio (i admit that priorly i didnt know this). But, i had already spent 3thou at a certain store and i had to work with what my options were. So, after extensive Q&A here i found that perhaps my best option would be to go with dyn&mf. Hopefully, if you have been following my threads for the past few weeks, you now understand what was going on. I wanted as unbiased a sampling here that i could, so i didnt mention that money had already been put down (not to mention how silly that was of an amateur audiophile). So, now in persuit of music fidelity (pun on me :)) i am trying to see what else can bring to life this sytem.
Cheers :)

Now I understand why you couldn't get out of that deal, it was a store credit. Well, the good news is that at least you used the credit towards some very cool gear that most anyone would love to call their own. Like Geoff recommends, burn the sucker in and play with the positioning and room treatments some (this could reap bigger benefits that switching out pieces of your system). If all else fails, I'm like Geoff; my system always sounds better with a great Turley Zin!

Have fun with your rig, it's a good one!

[nusiclover]

right on guys. the last two posts were very affirming. however, im a vodka man myself. i do occasionally rub down with some good aged scotch, but moreso into nice smooth polish stock.
tops, im glad that you finally get why i was so inundated from the start. and yes, after tonight i am definitely starting to appreciate the whole "breakin phenom".
geoff, yes i am slowly and happily accepting that i will be in relentless persuit of that "nirvana" system. btw, can you point me to where i can find these audiophile grade cd's. right now i rely on diana krall live in paris, best of sinead oconnor, fleetwood rumours, led zepellin remastered, pink floyd remastered, brahms in dd, star wars by london orch, charlie parker, sarah vaughan, genesis-invisible touch, best of phil collins, alice in chains unplugged, and cats the musical. a very strange assortment is always a good assortment :)