New book: Current-Driving of Loudspeakers

[nightflier]

I saw this on Enjoy the Music.com, and thought it was interesting. I wonder what it will do for speaker manufacturing:

A new book titled Current-Driving of Loudspeakers by Esa Meriläinen ($27.76) demonstrates new process for loudspeaker feeding. Meriläinen argues that conventional loudspeaker technology is flawed and introduces a new method for loudspeaker feeding called current-drive. According to Meriläinen, all audio power amplifiers in use today deliver voltage signals despite the fact that electrodynamic speakers respond only to current. Meriläinen argues that virtually all speaker systems have been severely impaired by the diverse electromotive forces induced in the voice coil that corrupt the flow of current. In response, he has developed new design practices and example circuits to operate the loudspeaker by controlled current, eliminating major distortion factors and offering what he feels is a superior listening experience. "Why have the basic laws of electrodynamics been ignored in the design of all loudspeaker operations?" Esa Meriläinen asks. "These design flaws affect the quality of all sound produced by loudspeakers everywhere and therefore perhaps even the musical preferences and choices of our entire culture." In addition to new concepts for amplifier and speaker design and demonstrative projects, the book also features ideas for modeling, filter design, measurements, and protection and provides a useful tutorial on analog linear systems. It can be purchased from Amazon.com at this link (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1448695325?tag=enjoythemusic&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1448695325&adid=0ZKYHA93B8Z76PWJMCF3&).

[poppachubby]

Looks great Flier, thanks for the rec.

[Luvin Da Blues]

I haven't read the book but this doesn't make any sense at all. Current in a electrical circuit is a function of applied voltage and loading in the circuit, unless he is introducing a varying secondary load (not a good thig) I can't see how this would work.

[pixelthis]

I haven't read the book but this doesn't make any sense at all. Current in a electrical circuit is a function of applied voltage and loading in the circuit, unless he is introducing a varying secondary load (not a good thig) I can't see how this would work.


I agree, voltage is only the pressure that drives current .
You can trade one for the other, as in the high power section of a CRT set,
but you have to have both.
Havent looked at this one, but on first glance its looney tunes.:1:

[nightflier]

Well yes, I know it sounds a bit out there, but I hardly think there would be a book about it if it was nonsense.

[harley .guy07]

I believe you guys tobe right on this one. You need both I would not see it being able to be done in the way that he explained unless he just does not explain things well and he missed a lot of info but from what he said he does not have a valid idea in my book

[pixelthis]

Well yes, I know it sounds a bit out there, but I hardly think there would be a book about it if it was nonsense.

I don't know about that, theres' tons of books out there about socialism.
John KENNETH GRAILBRAITH , and the brainless idiot , John Maynard keynes,
that he worships at the feet of, both won noble peace prizes and neither knows beans
about economics.
Current is like water, , voltage is water pressure.
What you stated was that voltage is favored by current speaker designers.
Thats like saying that a water company favors water pressure over water.
But I am not surprized, with the current state of intellectual discourse the way it is,
the college student who vetted this book probably has the equivalent of a eight grade
education, if that much.:1:

[nightflier]

Well here is the author's website:

http://www.current-drive.info/

Again, I'm no engineer, I leave that to those who know. But if Esa Meriläinen is correct in his conclusions than this is definitely a big deal for speaker manufacturing. Pix, I'm not going into a politics discussion about this, that's too far off topic, however, books in the hard sciences typically don't get published unless there's some viability behind them. I'm curious if this is the case here, from some of you who know more about electrical engineering than I do.

[E-Stat]

According to Meriläinen, all audio power amplifiers in use today deliver voltage signals despite the fact that electrodynamic speakers respond only to current.
Apparently, he is unaware of the Nelson Pass designed First Watt F4 which is a current amplifer having no voltage gain.


Meriläinen argues that virtually all speaker systems have been severely impaired by the diverse electromotive forces induced in the voice coil that corrupt the flow of current.
Except when you have no voice coils at all in the case of electrostatics. They are inherently high impedance voltage driven transducers.

rw

[nightflier]

eStat, can you elaborate? I don't think Meriläinen can account for every amplifier made, and I don't know the Pass designed one as well, either, but generally speaking he's right, no? I also think he's talking primarily about cone/box based speakers, which still represents the vast majority of speakers out there. If he's right, those are the manufacturers I was referring to in my comment about this being a big shift in the industry.

[E-Stat]

eStat, can you elaborate?
Sorry, I had intended to link to more info about the product. Essentially, it multiplies the current from the preamp.

F4 (http://www.firstwatt.com/products/f4.htm)


I don't think Meriläinen can account for every amplifier made, and I don't know the Pass designed one as well, either, but generally speaking he's right, no?
Generally yes, but I'm put off my his "virtually all amplifier" comment.

rw

[atomicAdam]

I don't know about that, theres' tons of books out there about socialism.
John KENNETH GRAILBRAITH , and the brainless idiot , John Maynard keynes,
that he worships at the feet of, both won noble peace prizes and neither knows beans
about economics.


Why do you do this? Why can't you just stick to audio stuff in this part of the forums? There has to be an audio or video example you can use in this case instead of getting political, which, is pretty much just flame bating.

[pixelthis]

Why do you do this? Why can't you just stick to audio stuff in this part of the forums? There has to be an audio or video example you can use in this case instead of getting political, which, is pretty much just flame bating.

SIMPLE... if I talk about "power cords", "that great (ahem) tube sound", or any of the other five thousand audiophile fantasies floating around right now, its off to the races.
This sounds like yet another fantasy concocted to sell the audio eqivalent of pet rocks,
like we need another one.

Anyway it was poorly stated, you can construct speakers that use more current
than voltage(or relatively more) but I FAIL TO SEE THE POINT.But then again I fail to see the point in a "power cord" that sells for hundreds, and comes outta the same plant as one that sells at WALFART FOR A BUCK FIFTY.
Anyway, whatever this guys selling, I BET someone will buy into it.
Like P.T Barnum said, theres' a sucker born every minute.:1:

[pixelthis]

And you can only buy so many overengineered "power cords".:1:

[JoeE SP9]

`Every one is forgetting that an AC motor is essentially a current driven device. A voice coil driven speaker is just an AC motor. Transformer coupled ESL's are voltage driven devices. Check some of Carvers' Sunfire literature for a amplifier manufacturers take on this.

Once again "pix" has interjected where he has an inadaquate knowledge base. Apparantly you can't see much and hear even less.

[pixelthis]

`Every one is forgetting that an AC motor is essentially a current driven device. A voice coil driven speaker is just an AC motor. Transformer coupled ESL's are voltage driven devices. Check some of Carvers' Sunfire literature for a amplifier manufacturers take on this.

Once again "pix" has interjected where he has an inadaquate knowledge base. Apparantly you can't see much and hear even less.

I spent three years learning about current and voltage, and while quite rusty, still remember a great deal of it, thank you very much.
In the first place, there is no voltage "gain" in most amps, try running 120 volts from a wall socket thru a speaker to see why, no there is a voltage reduction at the power supply.
A lot of the heat from a power supply comes from shedding the voltage and current from a wall socket and downstepping it to something an electronic device can use.
You can't have a "zero voltage" device, well you can, but its otherwise reffered to as
turned off.
There is no current without voltage, aint gonna happen.
There are low voltage high current devices, like car batteries, people wonder how a car battery can kill, well, its up to 600 amps, which is huge, but its only 12 volts.
Or you can trade current for voltage, like the jacobs ladder we built in class(two vertical wires with a rising spark, like in the monster movies).
In that case a step up transformer trades current for voltage, about 10,000 volts.
A INTERACTION with a CRTS high voltage section (30,000 volts or so) will knock you
on your azz, but wont kill you, because of the very low current.
NOW, you can run a "high current" speaker, but since they are "motors"(a bit of an oversimplecation) they should be high current (reletively ) already.
But I FAIL TO SEE what running "high" current through one will do, or help.
It will require robust output devices, either tube or solid state, and I just don't see the point, really.
As for "the scientific" community vetting an idea, give me a break.
Scientists are usually quite smart, but have little experience with dealing with the variouis con artists that are out there, and when scientific evidence is presented, its usually ignored if it doesnt meet the biases of the recipient.
For instance, I posted a link to a website that had valid scientific proof that typical audio
famtasies like ultra expensive "power cords" and "speaker cables" are so much hookum,
and got lambasted for my trouble, by peeps on this site who claimed, at the end, that they just didnt care about the "facts", they liked their toys and werent going to part with them, apparrently preferring to live with imaginary gains in performance than real ones.
Sadly, the audio community is bad about drawing con artists and shills of all varities,
because they know that a lot of so called "enthusiasts" will buy into just about anything, caring more about massaging their egos than actually improving their gear.
And nobody cares, there is nobody of any integrety that will stand up and say the emperoure has no clothes.
HERES THE REAL DEAL, most equipment at the higher end of the audio scale is built like a tank, actual gold plate is used in places, and in the case of solid state, will last a
very long time.
So manufacturers have to come up with some reason for fans to buy new gear,
and lets face it, fans love a reason to buy new gear.
So nobody cares, and I guess its not entirely a bad thing, keeps the Arizona copper miners employed mining copper for rediculously high gauge "power cords" and the like.
And I can see it in a few years, the first of a line of "high curent" loudspeakers, with special amps and five figure price tags, all being snapped up in spite of coming in second place in a double blind test with a PSB ALPHA.
But what do I know? JUST SPENT THREE YEARS LEARNING
E=I X R
I = E OVER R
ETC, ETC.
:1:

[pixelthis]

`Every one is forgetting that an AC motor is essentially a current driven device. A voice coil driven speaker is just an AC motor. Transformer coupled ESL's are voltage driven devices. Check some of Carvers' Sunfire literature for a amplifier manufacturers take on this.

Once again "pix" has interjected where he has an inadaquate knowledge base. Apparantly you can't see much and hear even less.

And no, I DONT HAVE A "KNOWLEDGE BASE".
I HAVE KNOWLEDGE

:1:

[JoeE SP9]

You must have been an exemplary student. It took me four years to earn my Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering.

[E-Stat]

In the first place, there is no voltage "gain" in most amps...
You must be using very different sources than do I. My moving coil cartridge begins with 1 mV. Aside from the RIAA EQ, it is unable to drive any of my amplifiers on its own. :)

rw

[audio amateur]

You must be using very different sources than do I. My moving coil cartridge begins with 1 mV. Aside from the RIAA EQ, it is unable to drive any of my amplifiers on its own. :)

rw
He is refering to the power (in this case voltage) input from the wall, not the voltage from an audio source.

[E-Stat]

He is refering to the power (in this case voltage) input from the wall, not the voltage from an audio source.
Which completely ignores what amplifiers do to the signals sent to them. They add gain to what the sources generate. Such is a specification provided by most amplifiers. Most power amps specify their gain as a value from between 24 and 30 db. Phono level preamps like my SP-9 MKIII provide 67 db of voltage gain to the signal. Power supply voltage found at the wall is irrelevant to what the amplifier gain stages do to sources in the real world. I think he should demand a refund for the superficial understanding of electrical theory he got with his three years of *training*.
rw

[audio amateur]

Which completely ignores what amplifiers do to the signals sent to them. They add gain to what the sources generate. Such is a specification provided by most amplifiers.
rw
Yes, he did ignore that.

Power supply voltage found at the wall is irrelevant to what the amplifier gain stages do to sources in the real world.
I am aware of that, and that isn't what he was saying, as he was ignoring source inputs. As you say, there is a great deal of voltage gains going on, but they are not of the same scale as the voltage reduction made to the power input voltage (which I believe becomes direct current). That's my understanding of what he was getting to. As for the refund, I would rather not judge...

[E-Stat]

...but they are not of the same scale as the voltage reduction made to the power input voltage (which I believe becomes direct current).
There's no voltage reduction going on in my VTL amplifiers. The rails operate at 550V. Even the Threshold runs at 60V or a reduction of about 3 db from the source. Contrast that to nearly 100 db of voltage gain provided by both the preamp and power amp to the cartridge's output to drive the speakers.

rw

[pixelthis]

Which completely ignores what amplifiers do to the signals sent to them. They add gain to what the sources generate. Such is a specification provided by most amplifiers. Most power amps specify their gain as a value from between 24 and 30 db. Phono level preamps like my SP-9 MKIII provide 67 db of voltage gain to the signal. Power supply voltage found at the wall is irrelevant to what the amplifier gain stages do to sources in the real world. I think he should demand a refund for the superficial understanding of electrical theory he got with his three years of *training*.
rw

YOU dont know what you're talking about and you say I NEED A "REFUND"?
What a laugh.
Amps dont do anything to "sources" like your phono cartrige.
THEY TAKE voltage and current, step it down and use it to drive speakers.
The source provides control, varying the bias current and providing output.
In no respect is a source ever "increased", it just controls the "valve", be it tube, transistor, or microchip.
120 volts goes into every amp plugged into a wall in the US at least.
Try plugging your speakers directly into the wall and see what you get.
(Well, maybe your electrostats need a power supply).
But the main job of an amp is turning wall current and voltage into usable current
to be controled by a source, to put it simply.
In no instance is the source "increased".
At least that was the case with the three stage amp I built in high school.
Dont know where you got your information.
But in every amp I have seen, class a, ab, etc, they just use the input signal to
modulate the output current to drive a loudspeaker(or phones).
Thats a simplfied way of putting it, but more accurate than what you're saying.
Not bad considering I put my soldering gun away several decades ago.:1:

[E-Stat]

At least that was the case with the three stage amp I built in high school.
That settles it!

rw

[audio amateur]

That settles it!

rw
lol, how did I know you were going to quote that?

[rakeford]

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2230/thevnort01.jpg

Two approaches to analysis of electronic circuits include Thevenin’s and Norton’s equivalent circuits (see figure). Thevenin’s equivalent circuit reduces a complex two terminal network to an equivalent impedance, Zeq and an equivalent voltage source, Veq. Norton’s equivalent circuit reduces a complex two terminal network to an equivalent impedance, Zeq and an equivalent current source, Ieq. Since both circuits represent the same network, Veq = Zeq * Ieq. The approaches are different, but the results are identical. The dynamics of the network components (resistors, capacitors, inductors, diodes, transistors, tubes) may make the mathematics easier in one of the two approaches. Which circuit to represent any given network is entirely a matter of choice and convenience.

[pixelthis]

That settles it!

rw


PRETTY MUCH.
A amp hasnt changed much in basic design ever since Lee Deforest invented the vaccume tube.
Its basically a valve controlled by an input source.
This allows a voltage/current that can drive a loudspeaker.
But its never the signal itself driving the speaker , or phones.
The source just controls what drives the speaker.
There is no real technical reason you cant have a high current speaker, but it will need voltage.
All I am saying.:1:

[pixelthis]

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2230/thevnort01.jpg

Two approaches to analysis of electronic circuits include Thevenin’s and Norton’s equivalent circuits (see figure). Thevenin’s equivalent circuit reduces a complex two terminal network to an equivalent impedance, Zeq and an equivalent voltage source, Veq. Norton’s equivalent circuit reduces a complex two terminal network to an equivalent impedance, Zeq and an equivalent current source, Ieq. Since both circuits represent the same network, Veq = Zeq * Ieq. The approaches are different, but the results are identical. The dynamics of the network components (resistors, capacitors, inductors, diodes, transistors, tubes) may make the mathematics easier in one of the two approaches. Which circuit to represent any given network is entirely a matter of choice and convenience.

One is series and one is paraell.
And the "math" for series is a lot more simple than paraell.
So whats your point?
You need to start off with something easier with this bunch, like how there is no current without voltage.
The basics, in other words.:1:

[E-Stat]

But its never the signal itself driving the speaker , or phones.
Who said otherwise? A cartridge with a one millivolt output certainly won't drive anything by itself. And in my case, the signal voltage output by the amplifier itself must be stepped up to a 10 kV level in order to drive the electrostat's stators. Little in the way of current but LOTS of voltage. Along the way, there is lots of voltage conversion going on starting with one thousandth of a volt ending up at ten thousand! While the rail voltage in the VTL amps I use is 550V, the tube amps in the original Acoustat X I used thirty some years ago drove the stators directly at 3kV.

rw

[pixelthis]

Who said otherwise? A cartridge with a one millivolt output certainly won't drive anything by itself. And in my case, the signal voltage output by the amplifier itself must be stepped up to a 10 kV level in order to drive the electrostat's stators. Little in the way of current but LOTS of voltage. Along the way, there is lots of voltage conversion going on starting with one thousandth of a volt ending up at ten thousand! While the rail voltage in the VTL amps I use is 550V, the tube amps in the original Acoustat X I used thirty some years ago drove the stators directly at 3kV.

rw

None of which is beans compared to a 30,000 volt power supply for a plasma TV.
My point is that if the current gets too high you will have to swap voltage, is all.
AND larger speaker coils(or whatever you electrostat types run) will have to weigh more,
cant help sensitivity..
The best speaker "floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee", to quote a certain champ.
FUNNY that a high current speaker would be the mirror image of an electrostat, the
electro being high voltage-low current, and the high current being the opposite.
Also funny the way people keep inventing the wheel, I take it you like your stats.
We need KEX to weigh in on this, hes the resident speaker guru.:1:

[E-Stat]

None of which is beans compared to a 30,000 volt power supply for a plasma TV.
The difference is that the voltage in a plasma is sealed from the environment where the bias charge in an electrostat is usually exposed to the air. Otherwise, you would get an impressive Dr. Frankenstein arc effect with 30kV! Using a higher bias charge improves efficiency, but you always have to deal with what the ambient air can take, which varies with humidity. When I had Acoustats, their relatively tame 3kV bias was constant and never required any adjustment. The Sound Labs run the bias far higher and it is variable - which allows you to run it optimally. Before each listening session, I take a moment and run each speaker's control to where I begin to hear a crackling sound, then back it down to just below that threshold.

The very first full range electrostat I heard was the Dayton-Wright. It approached the air-dielectric issue differently. It sealed the panels using an outer mylar diaphragm and filled it with sulfur hexafluoride gas. SF6 is an electrical insulator and allowed them to run the bias up about 12 kV without having to worry about the condition of the air around the panels.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/XG8.jpg



My point is that if the current gets too high you will have to swap voltage, is all.
Sure.


I take it you like your stats.
You betcha.

rw

[pixelthis]

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/XG8.jpg



Sure.


You betcha.

rw[/QUOTE]


Just seems like over-engineering to me, I tend to go for a more simple, elegant
solution.
BESIDES, one of these days that high voltage will bite you in the a***.
as for the 30k section in CRT and plasma being "sealed" what has that to do with anything?
I have seen them arc pretty decent anyway.
Glad you're happy with your stats, but its kinda like driving a mi1 abrams to the
stop and rob for a Diet coke.:1:

[E-Stat]

Just seems like over-engineering to me...
The D-Ws are no longer in production. Improvements with insulating coatings over the past thirty years have rendered that approach unnecessary. Their diaphragms weren't nearly as wispy as the 2.5 micron ones used by SL and involved two - counting the outer seal. They were, however, spectacular speakers in 1975. They left an indelible impression to one eighteen year old at the time. Including one time when former TAS reviewer JWC had to replace one of the panels. During the process, he put some SF6 in a coffee cup for me. Since it is heavier than air, it just sits there. If you place your finger in the cup, you feel but not see its presence. As one who sings bass in a symphony chorus, he has a powerful and low voice. He inhaled a bit and sung a few bars. The result was the exact opposite of what happens with helium. It was hilarious - like Lurch at the Met! SF6 is not very popular with the greenhouse gas folks either. :)


BESIDES, one of these days that high voltage will bite you in the a***.
As you observed, there is little current involved. It's more like the Van de Graff generator you played with in science class.

http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/_pause4_1.jpg


Glad you're happy with your stats, but its kinda like driving a mi1 abrams to the stop and rob for a Diet coke.
Their gentle and transparent nature doesn't evoke your heavyweight image to me. Yours is more appropriate for kilowatt powered horn systems.

rw

[pixelthis]

The D-Ws are no longer in production. Improvements with insulating coatings over the past thirty years have rendered that approach unnecessary. Their diaphragms weren't nearly as wispy as the 2.5 micron ones used by SL and involved two - counting the outer seal. They were, however, spectacular speakers in 1975. They left an indelible impression to one eighteen year old at the time. Including one time when former TAS reviewer JWC had to replace one of the panels. During the process, he put some SF6 in a coffee cup for me. Since it is heavier than air, it just sits there. If you place your finger in the cup, you feel but not see its presence. As one who sings bass in a symphony chorus, he has a powerful and low voice. He inhaled a bit and sung a few bars. The result was the exact opposite of what happens with helium. It was hilarious - like Lurch at the Met! SF6 is not very popular with the greenhouse gas folks either. :)


As you observed, there is little current involved. It's more like the Van de Graff generator you played with in science class.

http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/_pause4_1.jpg


Their gentle and transparent nature doesn't evoke your heavyweight image to me. Yours is more appropriate for kilowatt powered horn systems.

rw

Regardless, its still a long way around for sound reproduction.:1:

[E-Stat]

Regardless, its still a long way around...
Some think that of my choosing manual transmission in the cars as well. :)

rw

[audio amateur]

Some think that of my choosing manual transmission in the cars as well. :)

rw
Clearly they don't have any interest in driving. But I can understand that when 95% of automobiles in the US are automatic.

[audio amateur]

I bet the pedals in the S2000 are ideal for heal and toe. Must be a blast!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWWPg8_Xlw0
(unfortunately no camera on the pedals in this one)

[E-Stat]

But I can understand that when 95% of automobiles in the US are automatic.
That's part of my craziness. 100% of mine are not.


I bet the pedals in the S2000 are ideal for heal and toe. Must be a blast!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWWPg8_Xlw0
(unfortunately no camera on the pedals in this one)
The S has a tight cabin that works well for compact guys like me. Both it and the TL have good dead pedals, too.

That was a fun video. Notice the pilot kept the engine on boil most of the time just touching the 9k redline every once in a while (my petite wife has discovered the fuel-cutoff limiter at 9200!)

The 6-speed A Spec TL does pretty well, too with 0.9 G cornering and similar acceleration and top speed - that is easier to achieve with the larger motor's torque. Its shifter, like all Hondas moves like a rifle bolt, although the throw with the S is so short so you can nearly shift using wrist movement alone. :)

rw

[audio amateur]

Both it and the TL have good dead pedals, too. What do you mean by dead pedal?


That was a fun video.
You betcha. I could spend days watching Best Motoring videos, those guys are awesome.
Problem is I just go mad because during term time when im not living at home i dont have a car which means I dont get to drive... and as you can probably tell I love driving (maybe I should say obsessed.) The Honda 2K engines are super high revving as you know which means you need to keep the needle up there (in this case digital) to maintain the power up.
Here is one of my favourites from Best Motoring, but notice it's not a race.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aal9kG-EXeY
I just love how the Skyline's revs just fly! It is incredibly fast, more so than a Ferrari F-40. That's telling you something!
And here's a race with plenty of exotics, including my personaly favourite, the Murcielago. You can fast forward a little as it's quite long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE5M_CHfWR8

The 6-speed A Spec TL
Pardon the lack of knowledge, is that an Acura? (Acura doesn't exist in Europe)

Its shifter, like all Hondas moves like a rifle bolt, although the throw with the S is so short so you can nearly shift using wrist movement alone. :)
I can imagine :)

[E-Stat]

What do you mean by dead pedal?
That's the old timer's term for a foot rest. It gives you a firm footing for hard cornering and provides a place so that you don't ride the clutch. The worst thing you can do with a clutch is ride it with a bit of pressure. I've known folks who've gone through them in 30k miles - where I'm accustomed to getting more than 100k miles.

http://www.handa-accessories.com/S2000/footrest.jpg


Problem is I just go mad because during term time when im not living at home i dont have a car which means I dont get to drive... and as you can probably tell I love driving (maybe I should say obsessed.)
Moi aussi. I could never be an urban dweller for that reason.


Here is one of my favourites from Best Motoring, but notice it's not a race.
Thx for the links.



Pardon the lack of knowledge, is that an Acura? (Acura doesn't exist in Europe)
That's right. The TL is a fancier, higher performance Accord.

rw

[audio amateur]

That's the old timer's term for a foot rest. It gives you a firm footing for hard cornering and provides a place so that you don't ride the clutch. The worst thing you can do with a clutch is ride it with a bit of pressure. I've known folks who've gone through them in 30k miles - where I'm accustomed to getting more than 100k miles.

Oh right, I wasn't aware of that term (or any term which made reference to that 'pedal'). I always take my foot off the clutch pedal when I'm not shifting. It's also handy when you need to push yourself snug in the seat.

Moi aussi. I could never be an urban dweller for that reason.
Well then you can imagine my frustration. In the meantime, I'm being 'greener'. As a result I get to compensate for that when I do drive:D Unfortunately what I get to drive is a mark 3 diesel Golf. Not exactly the ultimate driving machine...

Thx for the links.
In my case, it got addictive!


That's right. The TL is a fancier, higher performance Accord.
ok!

[pixelthis]

I prefer a "stick" also, but thats because they are less complicated than an
automatic.
Like scotty said, "the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to clog
the toilet".
Or something like that.:1:

[JoeE SP9]

I've owned more than 30 cars. None of them had an automatic transmission. None had more than 2 doors and most only had 2 seats.

[nightflier]

Glad to see there are a few other people here who still drive a stick. Same here, never had an automatic and while it makes car shopping a pain, I persist in looking for that elusive stick, even in the larger & luxury segment. Since my Saab 9-5 now has some new life in it, I'm actually thinking about chipping it and buying some upgrades.

Getting back to the OT, maybe before we tear each other new ones over the merits of current-driving loudspeaker technology, someone should buy the book and read it. I can't really say I'm a good candidate for that since most of the engineering involved will be lost on me. Anyone else have an inkling to buy it?

[audio amateur]

I've owned more than 30 cars. None of them had an automatic transmission. None had more than 2 doors and most only had 2 seats.
Joe, you have very good tastes:yesnod:

[JoeE SP9]

My friends blame it on my European upbringing. I was a military brat growing up there in the late fifties and early sixties.
Years ago while driving one of the larger auto's I've owned (big block Camaro) I picked up a girl and her girlfriend at a club. When I escorted them to my car the girlfriend commented "There's no room back there" about the rear seating area. I responded, "I don't care, I don't ride back there".

As for as the speakers being current driven argument; try running any (not digital) amp without power supply capacitors. Or, think about this, when a good amp doubles its power as the load impedance is halved where do you think the power comes from? It certainly can't come from higher voltage. It's producing more current. For those who are not mathematically impaired it's a simple application of Ohms Law. As I said in an earlier post, "voice coil type speakers are AC motors". AC motors are essentially current driven devices. This is fact!

[Feanor]

I've owned more than 30 cars. None of them had an automatic transmission. None had more than 2 doors and most only had 2 seats.
Gads!! Is this a bragging point?

In my almost 65 years I've owned precisely six cars, one with manual transmission. I might go back to stick next time, though.

Of my six cars, two were 2-doors, (the first two), two were 4-doors, and two were 5-doors, i.e. wagons. I often sit in the back seat when my wife drives -- nowadays I actually dislike driving.

[audio amateur]

big block Camaro
I really need to move to the US sometime soon...

Joe, which country were you in?

[JoeE SP9]

Feanor;
My real point was that I've never had a car with an automatic transmission.

You sit in the back seat! What's the matter? Is the windshield too close ?:biggrin5:

aa; Mostly France, England and Germany. 12 years total.

[rakeford]

Glad to see there are a few other people here who still drive a stick. Same here, never had an automatic and while it makes car shopping a pain, I persist in looking for that elusive stick, even in the larger & luxury segment. Since my Saab 9-5 now has some new life in it, I'm actually thinking about chipping it and buying some upgrades.

Getting back to the OT, maybe before we tear each other new ones over the merits of current-driving loudspeaker technology, someone should buy the book and read it. I can't really say I'm a good candidate for that since most of the engineering involved will be lost on me. Anyone else have an inkling to buy it?

I've been thinking about getting the book. Maybe I'll give it a whirl.

Roll over Thevenin, Norton, here we come.

[Feanor]

Feanor;
My real point was that I've never had a car with an automatic transmission.

You sit in the back seat! What's the matter? Is the windshield too close ?:biggrin5:

...
It's sad I guess. I really don't like driving anymore although I do of practical necessity. :frown2: My wife does like driving however. Actually I only sit in the back seat when my daughter is in the car with my wife and me.

Hey, maybe if your car was an '02 Taurus wagon you won't like driving so much either.