Why aren't Sony stand alone Blu Ray players not as highly lauded as the PS3? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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BadAssJazz
01-22-2010, 08:21 AM
Take away the gaming aspect, what is Sony doing wrong? Given the reviews that I've read here and on other websites, you'd think that whatever pixie dust they're putting into the PS3's they'd also employ for their stand alone players. But oddly enough, that doesn't seem to be the case. If asked about the best Blu Ray players -- excluding the PS3 -- Sony rarely gets a tip of the cap. Are rumors of Sony possessing lightning in a bottle just that...rumors?

02audionoob
01-22-2010, 08:27 AM
I have been very happy with my Sony BDP-S350. I don't know why I'd want the PS3 instead.

audio amateur
01-22-2010, 09:32 AM
Probably and simply because PS3 is an amazing machine, especially for the price. I mean, you can even install an operating system on if for pete's sake!
I'm guessing this puts it a couple places ahead of 99% of the production...

GMichael
01-22-2010, 09:35 AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with a Sony BR player (or anyone else's for that matter), but the PS/3 does offer functions that a BR player can not. Not just gaming, but it's a powerfull computer with a hard drive that can do many other things. If you have no interest in all the extra functions and flexability, at basicly the same price, then a player is the way to go. A PS/3 does not have 7.1 MC analog out. This can make a big difference if you do not have HDMI connections in the rest of your system.

02audionoob
01-22-2010, 09:39 AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with a Sony BR player (or anyone else's for that matter), but the PS/3 does offer functions that a BR player can not. Not just gaming, but it's a powerfull computer with a hard drive that can do many other things. If you have no interest in all the extra functions and flexability, at basicly the same price, then a player is the way to go. A PS/3 does not have 7.1 MC analog out. This can make a big difference if you do not have HDMI connections in the rest of your system.

Based on a quick Google search, it looks like a PS3 is $300 to $350? The Google search showed me a result as low as $118 for the BDP-S360, no tax + free shipping.

GMichael
01-22-2010, 10:04 AM
Based on a quick Google search, it looks like a PS3 is $300 to $350? The Google search showed me a result as low as $118 for the BDP-S360, no tax + free shipping.

And there are many BR players that cost way more than $300. And a quick look at the BDP-S360 shows that it doesn't have MC analog out either.

L.J.
01-22-2010, 10:27 AM
The media center capabilities of the PS3 gives it a huge advantage over other players IMO. Once you add the strong support plus upgrade potential (improvements in DVD playback, 3-D support, constant improvements of the user interface....it goes on and on), I'd say it just offers far more for the $$$.

02audionoob
01-22-2010, 10:40 AM
And there are many BR players that cost way more than $300. And a quick look at the BDP-S360 shows that it doesn't have MC analog out either.

For the average person, though...the Blu-ray player simply does not cost what a PS3 costs. Someone like me wants the one that in this case costs well under half as much. In my setup, it looks better. It's silent. Its picture quality and sound quality are great. It has the output I need (HDMI) and that the average person needs. Or even better, my LG BD370 has all that and network/NetFlix, too. Both players combined cost less than a PS3.

GMichael
01-22-2010, 11:25 AM
For the average person, though...the Blu-ray player simply does not cost what a PS3 costs. Someone like me wants the one that in this case costs well under half as much. In my setup, it looks better. It's silent. Its picture quality and sound quality are great. It has the output I need (HDMI) and that the average person needs. Or even better, my LG BD370 has all that and network/NetFlix, too. Both players combined cost less than a PS3.
Then I think that you should get THAT BR player. For many though, a PS/3 offers many more advantages and has a BR player that equals that of players that cost much more.

Rich-n-Texas
01-22-2010, 11:42 AM
What GM says, and he has 10,000 more posts than you 02noob. :smilewinkgrin:

02audionoob
01-22-2010, 12:01 PM
What GM says, and he has 10,000 more posts than you 02noob. :smilewinkgrin:

I am entitled to my opinion. I'll never understand why people around here need so badly to win arguments...or to at least have the last word. :ciappa:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-22-2010, 12:05 PM
I am entitled to my opinion. I'll never understand why people around here need so badly to win arguments. :ciappa:

Sometimes it is not about winning as much as it is about getting the correct information out there. Alot of trash can sometimes get posted, and somebody has to clean up the mess.

02audionoob
01-22-2010, 12:10 PM
I get the impression the people who have a PS3 or plan to get one to use as a Blu-ray player think they've outsmarted the rest of us.

GMichael
01-22-2010, 12:13 PM
I am entitled to my opinion. I'll never understand why people around here need so badly to win arguments...or to at least have the last word. :ciappa:

I like and respect your opinion. Many people will and do agree with it. Please keep posting it.
Not everyone has the same wants. I didn't mean to seem to be arguing. I only meant to post my opinion.

If someone just wants a BR player and doesn't care about all the bells and whistles that a PS/3 comes with, then they can save some decent cash. But if someone is looking at a BR player in the $300 price range, then a PS/3 can offer much more at the same price.

GMichael
01-22-2010, 12:19 PM
I get the impression the people who have a PS3 or plan to get one to use as a Blu-ray player think they've outsmarted the rest of us.

The thing about a PS/3 is that Sony wants people to buy their games and s/w. They make enough there to justify making less of a profit on the unit itself. You end up with something that does a great job playing BR disks and has so much more included (games or not). We just want to share that with everyone so that they can get the same great deal we did. (Not that getting a BR player for about $100 isn't a great deal too)

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-22-2010, 12:49 PM
For the average person, though...the Blu-ray player simply does not cost what a PS3 costs. Someone like me wants the one that in this case costs well under half as much. In my setup, it looks better. It's silent. Its picture quality and sound quality are great. It has the output I need (HDMI) and that the average person needs. Or even better, my LG BD370 has all that and network/NetFlix, too. Both players combined cost less than a PS3.

The difference between your player and the PS3 is that it is not limited to the widgets found on most players. For instance, I added a simple $40 piece of software called playon to my computer, and now I can literally stream thousands of television programs and movies to my PS3. That is not possible with a regular bluray player, even a player setup for netflix.

Two of mine playback SACD, and all of them upsample CD's to 24/176.4khz, which makes them sound smoother.

The internal decoding of the lossless codecs is the best on the market with the exception of the high end models. This decoding can be updated and improved with a firmware upgrade, and no other player can do this.

It is going to be updated to handle 3D, which will make me ready for 3D when the first disc hits.

You can surf the net with an added wireless bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Regular Blu ray players can't do this.

In my Oakland house I have no cable or OTA. I strictly use my two PS3 for watching programming through my network system there. Since I am not there all of the time, this approach keeps the expenses down, but the entertainmnet up!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-22-2010, 12:51 PM
I get the impression the people who have a PS3 or plan to get one to use as a Blu-ray player think they've outsmarted the rest of us.

Nah, we are just thrilled at what we got! Once I tricked this thing out, I was floored with what it could do.

Rich-n-Texas
01-22-2010, 12:51 PM
I am entitled to my opinion. I'll never understand why people around here need so badly to win arguments...or to at least have the last word. :ciappa:
I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion. And you probably think this site is full of PS3 fanboys, but since the PS3 is such a great value for the money, why not extol its virtues?

It's quite possible that soon, a troll will show up in this thread to knock the PS3 just for the sake of knocking it, so a little buildup ahead of time ain't so bad, really. :1:

BadAssJazz
01-22-2010, 11:32 PM
...since the PS3 is such a great value for the money, why not extol its virtues?

I think we overshot the runway just a bit. I didn't intend to start a Hatfields and McCoys-type shootout between PS3 owners and the rest of the sandlot.

Let me re-approach:

Given all of the features that Sony has built into a PS3, why haven't they incorporated the same into a stand alone form factor, thus completely dominating the market? It seems to me to be the prudent business decision.

Let's assume (1) that the average consumer is put off by the notion of the PS3 being a gaming console foremost, and no amount of re-orientation or slick marketing will change that; and (2) said consumer is otherwise savvy and wants the bells and whistles that a PS3 offers, and would gladly pay the asking price if he found those same features in a stand alone player.

What could possibly be keeping Sony from making that next innovative leap?

02audionoob
01-23-2010, 07:07 AM
What could possibly be keeping Sony from making that next innovative leap?

What do you suppose it is?

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-23-2010, 08:52 AM
I think we overshot the runway just a bit. I didn't intend to start a Hatfields and McCoys-type shootout between PS3 owners and the rest of the sandlot.

Let me re-approach:

Given all of the features that Sony has built into a PS3, why haven't they incorporated the same into a stand alone form factor, thus completely dominating the market? It seems to me to be the prudent business decision.

The answer to this is cost, period


Let's assume (1) that the average consumer is put off by the notion of the PS3 being a gaming console foremost, and no amount of re-orientation or slick marketing will change that; and (2) said consumer is otherwise savvy and wants the bells and whistles that a PS3 offers, and would gladly pay the asking price if he found those same features in a stand alone player.

What could possibly be keeping Sony from making that next innovative leap?

The power of the PS3 comes from its graphics algorithms and it's Cell processor. To implement these into a regular Blu ray player would blow its costs in the stratosphere, which would effectively kill sales in relation to other players. Once you include the Cell processor, then you would have to upgrade all of the parts in the signal chain to a point that it can pass all the improvements implemented to the processing transparently. With the kind of upgrades we have received, that would make the associated parts side a floating ever changing equation. Then the question becomes how do I install parts that can be transparent when I do upgrades later, which is an impossible question to solve when those changes are not developed or conceived yet.

To solve this problem for the PS3, it uses no SOC processing, but is an all software driven solution. There are no DAC chips, it is all algorithm based processing using the latest HDMI solution as an output. This way the processor becomes the limitation, and not the chipset itself. This is an expensive way to do this, but when gaming comes into the picture, it is the only way to do this.

Sony takes a loss on every PS3 it sells, but makes that money up selling games. Their regular Blu ray players do not have games to offset the loses on the players. So Sony has to go the way the other manufacturers go, and that is a player with standard BR processing on SOC to keep costs in check.

For many years, DVD reviewers used standard players as a reference player. Many of them are not gamers, but you can find a PS3 in their HT as the reference for Blu ray playback. If you want a great player, you forget about the case style, and the fact that it does games, and revel in all the things this piece of equipment can do.

winston
01-27-2010, 09:03 AM
Sir T the T" @ Quote
You can surf the net with an added wireless bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

Pertaining To The PS3... (can any wireless blue-tooth keyboard and mouse be use for this Application")??...PS3 Guys"...thanks

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-27-2010, 09:21 AM
Sir T the T" @ Quote
You can surf the net with an added wireless bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

Pertaining To The PS3... (can any wireless blue-tooth keyboard and mouse be use for this Application")??...PS3 Guys"...thanks

My gut answer would be yes.

GMichael
01-27-2010, 10:02 AM
My gut answer would be yes.

May I also add:

The PS/3 will need to link with whatever you end up using. It is sure to link with one meant for a PS/3.

L.J.
01-27-2010, 10:09 AM
I'm using this one

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-PlayStation-3-Cordless-MediaBoard-Pro/dp/B000W5RBQE/ref=dp_cp_ob_vg_title_0

I use my controller sometimes too.

I don't think the PS3 would have any problems seeing other bluetooth devices if you wanted something cheaper.

winston
01-27-2010, 11:38 AM
My gut answer would be yes.
Thanks Sir T the T"

winston
01-27-2010, 12:02 PM
May I also add:

The PS/3 will need to link with whatever you end up using. It is sure to link with one meant for a PS/3.
GMichael" Thanks for that additional information... That will help" as i have no idea!!

L.J.@Quote
I'm using this one

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-PlayS..._ob_vg_title_0

I use my controller sometimes too.

I don't think the PS3 would have any problems seeing other bluetooth devices if you wanted something cheaper........................................... .......................................

L.J." thanks good looking out" that Logitech piece is looking great!! for $41.00 after rebate thanks Again Guys.

pixelthis
01-27-2010, 01:52 PM
The thing about a PS/3 is that Sony wants people to buy their games and s/w. They make enough there to justify making less of a profit on the unit itself. You end up with something that does a great job playing BR disks and has so much more included (games or not). We just want to share that with everyone so that they can get the same great deal we did. (Not that getting a BR player for about $100 isn't a great deal too)

Heres the thing, paying more for a bunch of features you won't use is no bargain.
AND this site is full of "ps3 fanboys", some who just don't understand why a non-tech type wouldnt want one.
For the record, having seen Sonys exelent Blu player and their ps3 side by side, the
pq award goes to the standalone.
Everything the PS3 can do you can do on a computer(except for some of the games),
but try telling that to these enraptured "fanboys".
In short, PS3 is nice, but a standalone is a choice, too.:1:

GMichael
01-27-2010, 02:26 PM
Heres the thing, paying more for a bunch of features you won't use is no bargain.
AND this site is full of "ps3 fanboys", some who just don't understand why a non-tech type wouldnt want one.
For the record, having seen Sonys exelent Blu player and their ps3 side by side, the
pq award goes to the standalone.
Everything the PS3 can do you can do on a computer(except for some of the games),
but try telling that to these enraptured "fanboys".
In short, PS3 is nice, but a standalone is a choice, too.:1:

A standalone is a good choice, but not all standalones cost less than a PS/3. There are many that cost more.

As far as there being a lot of fanboys here, that's just normal. When something is this good, lots of people want to tell their friends.

bobsticks
01-27-2010, 03:24 PM
The media center capabilities of the PS3 gives it a huge advantage over other players IMO. Once you add the strong support plus upgrade potential (improvements in DVD playback, 3-D support, constant improvements of the user interface....it goes on and on), I'd say it just offers far more for the $$$.

I agree completely with L.J. (enough to give him a Greenie in fact)...the convenience of the onboard hard drive and the instananeous and fre upgrades via th einternet are excellent sell-points in this fledgling state of Blu-Ray.

Some models play SACD as well which a strong incentive for me anyway.

It is not flawless and few have claimed it to be. The fans make a bit of discernable noise at low levels and the DACs could be better for straight 44 two channel but bang-for-the-buck it has no competition, IMO.

bobsticks
01-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Nah, we are just thrilled at what we got! Once I tricked this thing out, I was floored with what it could do.

Hey T-Dawg, any specifics on the "tricking out"? Inquiring minds want to know...

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-27-2010, 07:41 PM
I agree completely with L.J. (enough to give him a Greenie in fact)...the convenience of the onboard hard drive and the instananeous and fre upgrades via th einternet are excellent sell-points in this fledgling state of Blu-Ray.

Some models play SACD as well which a strong incentive for me anyway.

It is not flawless and few have claimed it to be. The fans make a bit of discernable noise at low levels and the DACs could be better for straight 44 two channel but bang-for-the-buck it has no competition, IMO.

Yo sticks type individual, are you referring to the AV multi output? Because the PS3 has no DAC. The AV multi out is the lowest resolution of all connections, and that is to accommodate a television only situation. Both the optical and HDMI connection stream to the on board DAC of the receiver, it is not passed through an internal DAC.

Did you know you can use its internal 24/176.4 up sampling algorithm and dither processing to improve the CD sound? I can hip you to the optimum settings if you so desire.

Still, you are right, it is not flawless. The benefits outweigh the flaws many times over though IMO

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-27-2010, 08:05 PM
Heres the thing, paying more for a bunch of features you won't use is no bargain.

I cannot disagree with you on this one. However, most of us around here need a CD player, and it is excellent at this chore. Most of us want a Blu ray player, and it lands in the top tier of Blu ray players at this chore. Some of us are either just getting into streaming, or have been at it a while, and it is excellent and content rich at doing this. Some of us wanted a place to store our digital photos, and this thing surely is that place. Some of us have a pretty nice size DVD library, and it does an excellent job of up converting this to HD like resolution(it does it better than most displays do). You can also store anywhere from 60GB to 250GB(or more with a hard drive upgrade) of music on its hard drive. Now are there really that many features that most folks don't use? With all of this it does not matter if you don't play games.


AND this site is full of "ps3 fanboys", some who just don't understand why a non-tech type wouldnt want one.

Being a fanboy does not mean that you are not balanced in your perspective. Are there better quality Blu ray standalones out there, yep, but they cost more than the PS3, and do less than it. If looks turn you off, then you are going to hate some very high performing products.



For the record, having seen Sonys exelent Blu player and their ps3 side by side, the
pq award goes to the standalone.

This is true only if you are talking about the BDP-S5000ES, and it costs more than the PS3(more than double) and it is less feature rich than the PS3. Based on testing, the BDP-S5000ES just barely beats the PS3 in picture quality(especially against the older model PS3), and is able to stream to a receiver(which is of no sonic benefit). The newer PS3 slim can stream, but its PQ is not on the same level as the BDP-S5000ES.



Everything the PS3 can do you can do on a computer(except for some of the games),
but try telling that to these enraptured "fanboys".

Oh really. Well can a computer upsample to 24/176.4 on CD playback? Maybe not. Can a computer playback SACD? Umm, maybe not. Are there any computers with CEC protocol for system integration on HDMI? I know of none. Can a computer be operated with a Harmony remote for total system operation integration? Aaaa, no!

So a computer cannot do everything a PS3 can do.


In short, PS3 is nice, but a standalone is a choice, too.:1:

Agreed!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-27-2010, 08:06 PM
Hey T-Dawg, any specifics on the "tricking out"? Inquiring minds want to know...

I guess I mean to fully utilize all of its features and internal settings to get the best out of the equipment.

bobsticks
01-28-2010, 08:39 AM
Yo sticks type individual, are you referring to the AV multi output? Because the PS3 has no DAC. The AV multi out is the lowest resolution of all connections, and that is to accommodate a television only situation. Both the optical and HDMI connection stream to the on board DAC of the receiver, it is not passed through an internal DAC.

Did you know you can use its internal 24/176.4 up sampling algorithm and dither processing to improve the CD sound? I can hip you to the optimum settings if you so desire.

Still, you are right, it is not flawless. The benefits outweigh the flaws many times over though IMO

Yeah, I'm talkembout that AV multi...and thanks for the clarification. I'll mess around with the settings and see what I can come up with and consult further if necessary.

Frankly, as I mentioned in another thread, I'm getting a bit bored so it may all be for naught. Might pack everything up and start a new project for 2010...

pixelthis
01-28-2010, 09:49 AM
Oh really. Well can a computer upsample to 24/176.4 on CD playback? Maybe not. Can a computer playback SACD? Umm, maybe not. Are there any computers with CEC protocol for system integration on HDMI? I know of none. Can a computer be operated with a Harmony remote for total system operation integration? Aaaa, no!

So a computer cannot do everything a PS3 can do.

Wrong as usual.
There are remotes for computers, and I have an eight year old DVD audio player that can
double a standard CD to 88 khz, sounds amazing.
You could upsample a CD quite easily with a USB dac, no chore really.
MEANWHILE, PS3 is blutooth, need a USB adapter, while my computer has a blu keyboard and mouse.
If the one lung ps3 can do it my computer can manage quite well( 64 bit, 8 gig 1066
front side bus dual core windows 7 mACHINE).
Aint no thang.:1:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-28-2010, 10:38 AM
Wrong as usual.
There are remotes for computers, and I have an eight year old DVD audio player that can
double a standard CD to 88 khz, sounds amazing.

Sorry, but a remote is not apart of every computer system that is built, but it is apart of EVERY PS3. It is kind of simple to use a rare device(and an even rarely used device) to make a point. 88.2khz is not 176.4 is it? In this sentence alone you are talking about two seperate components instead of one complete one.


You could upsample a CD quite easily with a USB dac, no chore really.

Now you have just pulled a third component into the fray.



MEANWHILE, PS3 is blutooth, need a USB adapter, while my computer has a blu keyboard and mouse.

I didn't need an adapter for my remote. So much for your extensive personal experience with the PS3. It is quite apparent you know nothing about the machine. I just plugged in both my bluetooth wireless keyboard and mouse, and that was it.


If the one lung ps3 can do it my computer can manage quite well( 64 bit, 8 gig 1066
front side bus dual core windows 7 mACHINE).
Aint no thang.:1:

The Cell processor is much more powerful than any dual core computer out there. Secondly your computer cannot playback SACD or Blu ray disc. So much for that comment.

GMichael
01-29-2010, 07:16 AM
And so it begins. Skynet is born.

http://gcn.com/articles/2010/01/27/air-force-lab-supercomputer.aspx?s=gcndaily_280110


Try that with a BR player.

Rich-n-Texas
01-29-2010, 08:57 AM
"One Lung PS3", with a cell processor.

pixdumbass, do a search on Cell Processor, and this time actually READ the description. Next, get the F*** out of this thread because surely Sir T and everyone else who actually knows something about the PS3 is getting tired of your deliberate trolling stunt. OKAY?

pixelthis
01-29-2010, 10:13 AM
"One Lung PS3", with a cell processor.

pixdumbass, do a search on Cell Processor, and this time actually READ the description. Next, get the F*** out of this thread because surely Sir T and everyone else who actually knows something about the PS3 is getting tired of your deliberate trolling stunt. OKAY?

Cell, smell.
Buncha PS3 fanboys indeed.
When does your day pass run out:1:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-30-2010, 10:18 AM
Cell, smell.
Buncha PS3 fanboys indeed.
When does your day pass run out:1:

I guess it would run out when your simple minded (and often wrong) approach to audio and video does!

pixelthis
01-31-2010, 02:08 PM
I guess it would run out when your simple minded (and often wrong) approach to audio and video does!

Keep on croaking, you old fossil, sitting in the dark with your antique CRT projector
and your equally antique view on the world.:1:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-31-2010, 04:11 PM
Keep on croaking, you old fossil, sitting in the dark with your antique CRT projector
and your equally antique view on the world.:1:

But Pix, I am at least ten years younger than you are, so what does that make you man? An groaning oil deposit?

When you go to the movies old bean, just what lighting conditions do you view the movie in?
If you get the right answer I will turn off the water!