B&W 803N's

[manlystanley]

I have a set of B&W 803N's that I'm demoing for a week--while I figure out how to sell my magnepan 1.6's. I had heard that the 803N tweeters are 'bright and harsh' and now I see what that means. I've told the guy that I'll be bringing them back Saturday, but in the mean time I'm trying to see if I can make the 803N's work. What I've found is that:

-- Monoprice video cables make them very bright. But, if you can get through the sound of the screech there amazing.

-- Monoprice audio cables make them sound very smooth, at the expense of loosing lots of high end detail.

-- I'm currently listening to: one MonoP cable between CD player and pre-map; Then one monoP Video cable between pre-amp to my XPA -2. That sounds better, but it's still to bright for me.

-- If I toe them in about 1/2 inch, that works the best.

-- I've been meaning to upgrade to BJC cables, so I have a two sets of those on order. I'll need to see how they sound.

I've read that B&W 803N's do not sound good with 'cheap amplifiers', so I'm wondering about my XPA-2, if that that making the problem worse?

Anyways, I kind of wish I had my 684's back, good grief this is a pain in the neck and time sink. Knowing what I know now, I'd figure out a way to get my H/K 655 amp fixed.



BTW, when I auditioned them at his house, the 803N's, sounded: dull with bass being a bit boomy. But, he has carpeting, and lots of sound absorbing panels on the walls. This is why I took them to demo them, since they sounded so subdued and my room is bright (e.g. I thought my bright room would make the 803N's sound more alive). We'll they sound good, if I could only tone down the treble.

Worse come to worse, I'll drive back on Saturday and look for a plan 'C'.

Best Regards,
Stan

[RGA]

There are some mighty fine loudspeakers out there from names off the beaten track that may do it for you. The B&W's do have a bright quality to them - but IMO their weakness tends to be a lack of "cohesiveness" where you hear the individual drivers doing their own thing - which probably makes them suitable for studio use but less so as a home speaker to relax to. I believe the ear is good at detecting out of step sound. Dealers like them because owners tend to keep upgrading amplifiers, cd players, cables etc to try and get them to sound right - that doesn't happen and they end up after a lot of money buying a new loudspeaker - or wishing they kept their old ones.

At the end of the month I will have a CES show report up for dagogo.com and I will list some of the best rooms at the show under $10k and over $10k based on the speaker's price. Largely because speakers account for the majority of the resulting sound and that typically speaking rooms mate less expensive front end gear with less expensive speakers and more expensive front end gear with very expensive speakers.

I notice you have a pretty decent panel - I have a panel that was killer good - and with some actual balls - and not a stupid narrow listening head in the vice quality. An electrostatic speaker for $6k. I also have a killer good multi-way speaker on the list for $6k that has bass to 30hz and really really can pound. A wide listening window and unique looks. I don't want to give too much away until the site is updated.

B&W is not bad or anything but sometimes we get trapped looking mostly at the gear that is in the mainstream and we miss some truly outstanding stuff that goes under the radar that costs less.

[audio amateur]

Did you try contacting Magnepan? What's the situation? Are you just not bothered enough to have them fixed or fix them yourself?

[manlystanley]

Did you try contacting Magnepan? What's the situation? Are you just not bothered enough to have them fixed or fix them yourself?


I did. They said it's very surprising that a 1.6 has the problem. She said to make sure, do the following: Cause the rattle, figure out where it's coming from. Put your finger on it. If it stops, then its the wire problem.

She also said, that the speakers were made in April 1998. So, they are almost 12 years old. She said that to fix (at the factory) would be between: $264-470, depending on what was found wrong. Then shipping would be at least $50 each way. This then means that it would cost me $364 to $570 to fix. I'd then have a fixed 12 year old speakers.

She said that they sell a kit to fix them, but cannot ship it in the winter time. This would be $50.

The question is: should I just cut my losses and sell them as is. Maybe (with the custom stands): I could get $500-$750? Further, with all the problems I had getting them to sound good in my bright room, does it even make sense to continue looking at planer speakers.

Best Regards,
Stan

[koven]

For what it's worth, Emotiva amps sound relatively bright, look into tubes or a McIntosh w/ autoformers.

[audio amateur]

Yeah, it's a bit problematic.... it's a hard decision. You seemed pretty happy about them at first, that's why I am surprised

[manlystanley]

Yeah, it's a bit problematic.... it's a hard decision. You seemed pretty happy about them at first, that's why I am surprised

I did, but that was quick listen. I telework on Wednesday and Friday's and listen to my stereo the entire day. I just started to like the 1.6's less and less. I need time to figure out if I like something or not.

I just want to cut my losses. BTW, the 803N's are growing on me. Very bright, but very clear and detailed. I'm hearing thinks I never heard on the 684's or 1.6's. I'll need to see how this develops.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

For what it's worth, Emotiva amps sound relatively bright, look into tubes or a McIntosh w/ autoformers.

Ekkk..... I was afraid of that... What would that cost me??

Best Regards,
Stan

[koven]

Ekkk..... I was afraid of that... What would that cost me??

Best Regards,
Stan

i would check audiogon.com frequently, there are plenty of great deals.. IMO you need to spend at LEAST $2k on a quality amp for the n803's to reach full potential

brands like jeff rowland, mcintosh, classe would be ideal

[audio amateur]

The 803 should be a good speaker, which generation is it from? i thought you were on a tight budget, now you're splashing on B&W's flagship range :p

[blackraven]

Fix that Maggies and then sell them or try and find a used tube preamp or warmer sounding amp like a B&K. Also check the Van Alstine web site for his used gear. Check frequently. he gives a 30 day money back guarantee, warranty and most of his used gear and new for that matter are fully upgradeable.
http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/used/used.htm

Also consider a used PS audio digilink III DAC or a used Marantz SA8001/8003 CD. These CD players are very warm sounding. They were too warm for my liking. You might see if you can do an in home audition. You might like what you hear even if you go with the B&W's.

[manlystanley]

The 803 should be a good speaker, which generation is it from? i thought you were on a tight budget, now you're splashing on B&W's flagship range :p

It's the Nautlius seriers. (803N's).

Tight budget? Well, I've properly learned from this forum that: "Suzzy does not need to go to college, and Bobby, really does not need new shoes, just use card board". BTW: Since these cost more, my wife is saying things like: The big speakers (e.g. Maggies) were really not that big....

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

So, one of the options that I'm toying with is going back to mid-fi and be happy there. If I return these 803N's, I'd look into other less revealing speakers. Maybe B&W 683's? The lowest price I've seen them go for is around $800. But, then my big-mama amp would not be fully used.

Lots of choices.

Best Regards,
Stan

[audio amateur]

By generation i meant are they the current model or an older model?
And by 'tight' budget, I meant that you're looking at a speaker that is a lot more expensive than your used maggies. Are the 803 used or brand new from the shop?

As for the 600 series, I've heard people say they prefer the 684/685 to the 683. As you probably already know, the 683 has a dedicated midrange driver, which uses their FST technology (I believe it has to do with the fact that it doesn't really have a surround). And also dedicated bass drivers. Which means they may sound a little different to the rest of the range. If you liked your 684, then I'd say it's safe to go back to the 600 series. But why not try something new? There are so many offerings in the US it's a shame not to.

[Ajani]

By generation i meant are they the current model or an older model?


The Nautilus Line was before the current S Line (soon to be replaced by the Diamond Line)...

[Ajani]

So, one of the options that I'm toying with is going back to mid-fi and be happy there. If I return these 803N's, I'd look into other less revealing speakers. Maybe B&W 683's? The lowest price I've seen them go for is around $800. But, then my big-mama amp would not be fully used.

Lots of choices.

Best Regards,
Stan

Honestly, I think you should consider other brands... Your options are not limited to B&W and Magnepan... I've always found B&W speakers impressive (CM1 and 805S in particular) but I found them very fatiguing after about half an hour of listening... So I looked around and found other brands I prefer (Revel and Monitor Audio)... I would not suggest just going back to the 600 Series, since you must have had some dissatisfaction with them that drove you to upgrade...

[manlystanley]

By generation i meant are they the current model or an older model?
And by 'tight' budget, I meant that you're looking at a speaker that is a lot more expensive than your used maggies. Are the 803 used or brand new from the shop?

As for the 600 series, I've heard people say they prefer the 684/685 to the 683. As you probably already know, the 683 has a dedicated midrange driver, which uses their FST technology (I believe it has to do with the fact that it doesn't really have a surround). And also dedicated bass drivers. Which means they may sound a little different to the rest of the range. I've you liked your 684, then I'd say it's safe to go back to the 600 series. But why not try something new? There are so many offerings in the US it's a shame not too.




Hello AA,
They are used original Nautilus 803's. They look very similar to the current 803S and 803D's. I've heard that the big difference in sound is with the 803D's. I've read all kinds of reviews. Some people love the 803N's and don't like the newer models as much. Then others say there's a huge difference between the 803S's and 803D's. Other's say all three models sound nearly the same.

I've noticed that the bass is MUCH more defined on the 803N's. My reference piece is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing the overture to 1812. With my 684's it came across muddy and many words I could not understand. With these speakers, much clearer.

This model (803N's) was first sold in 2000. he said that he bought them in 2004, but the serial number are 1041 and 1042. So, I'm a little concerned that they might be older then 2004. He's selling because he bought 803D's. Also, he is a classical music lover and lives in a small town house, so he has not driven them hard.

I have them on a weeks trial basis for $2,300. Worse come to worse, I'll try out really high end stuff for a week for free. If these new cables really help, I'll bring them back and say that I'll take them if he helps me purchase room conditioners. But, as they are now, they are just too bright. Also, the lowest they have ever sold on audiogon is $2,200.

They look almost new. A few dents, but nothing really to speak off. The only real problem is that on one speaker two spikes does fit well. Which means that you need to use the hard wood pad instead. Not sure what that would do to there resell value? Since I have hard wood floors, it's find with me.

I listened to them all day yesterday: 6:00 AM till 5:00 PM. There OK, but too bright. With the monoprice audio cables, they changed to being too dull. But, I need to listen some more, I'm starting to wonder if I'm also hearing a lack of cohesion between the mid range and tweeter. On some male voices, the tweeter really stands out and sounds harsh. This is really exemplified by Wille Nelson. But, I've heard it on other male Voices as well.

So what have I learned? Well, I've got real problem with my system / room acoustics. Really revealing speakers go super bright. The magnepan's were much. much more bright then the 803N's, but both are bright.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

By generation i meant are they the current model or an older model?
And by 'tight' budget, I meant that you're looking at a speaker that is a lot more expensive than your used maggies. Are the 803 used or brand new from the shop?

As for the 600 series, I've heard people say they prefer the 684/685 to the 683. As you probably already know, the 683 has a dedicated midrange driver, which uses their FST technology (I believe it has to do with the fact that it doesn't really have a surround). And also dedicated bass drivers. Which means they may sound a little different to the rest of the range. If you liked your 684, then I'd say it's safe to go back to the 600 series. But why not try something new? There are so many offerings in the US it's a shame not to.

I auditioned the 683's and 684's and the 683's are much better speakers. Bass is better, deeper. The sound stage is larger and they sound fuller. I was not impressed with the 684 because the smaller bookshelf 685's sounded almost the same. I would have no problems with the 683's as part of a higher end system as long as the room is not too big.

[audio amateur]

I auditioned the 683's and 684's and the 683's are much better speakers. Bass is better, deeper. The sound stage is larger and they sound fuller. I was not impressed with the 684 because the smaller bookshelf 685's sounded almost the same. I would have no problems with the 683's as part of a higher end system as long as the room is not too big.
I've no doubt that the 683 may sound better, simply that's what I remember reading in another forum.
I don't really see the point of purchasing the 684 over the 685, only perhaps if one doesn't want a sub and wishes deeper bass extention. The 684 uses the same woofer as the 685, only it uses two.

[blackraven]

Stan you should try to find a pair of older Thiels. There are plenty on audiogon for good prices. You may also want to look at warmer speakers given your room situation and your power amp. I would certainly consider a pair of the new PSB Imagine series or some Monitor Audio RS8's.

You might also consider taking home a tube preamp or warmer Cd player for and in home trial and see if you like the Maggies any better.

[frenchmon]

Hello AA,
They are used original Nautilus 803's. They look very similar to the current 803S and 803D's. I've heard that the big difference in sound is with the 803D's. I've read all kinds of reviews. Some people love the 803N's and don't like the newer models as much. Then others say there's a huge difference between the 803S's and 803D's. Other's say all three models sound nearly the same.

I've noticed that the bass is MUCH more defined on the 803N's. My reference piece is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing the overture to 1812. With my 684's it came across muddy and many words I could not understand. With these speakers, much clearer.

This model (803N's) was first sold in 2000. he said that he bought them in 2004, but the serial number are 1041 and 1042. So, I'm a little concerned that they might be older then 2004. He's selling because he bought 803D's. Also, he is a classical music lover and lives in a small town house, so he has not driven them hard.

I have them on a weeks trial basis for $2,300. Worse come to worse, I'll try out really high end stuff for a week for free. If these new cables really help, I'll bring them back and say that I'll take them if he helps me purchase room conditioners. But, as they are now, they are just too bright. Also, the lowest they have ever sold on audiogon is $2,200.

They look almost new. A few dents, but nothing really to speak off. The only real problem is that on one speaker two spikes does fit well. Which means that you need to use the hard wood pad instead. Not sure what that would do to there resell value? Since I have hard wood floors, it's find with me.

I listened to them all day yesterday: 6:00 AM till 5:00 PM. There OK, but too bright. With the monoprice audio cables, they changed to being too dull. But, I need to listen some more, I'm starting to wonder if I'm also hearing a lack of cohesion between the mid range and tweeter. On some male voices, the tweeter really stands out and sounds harsh. This is really exemplified by Wille Nelson. But, I've heard it on other male Voices as well.

So what have I learned? Well, I've got real problem with my system / room acoustics. Really revealing speakers go super bright. The magnepan's were much. much more bright then the 803N's, but both are bright.

Best Regards,
Stan


IF I where you, I'd get some good audio cable and get rid of the monopriced cable. I had a pair and my system was very harsh and bright...I mean really made the speaker brighter than what it really was. Its the monoprice cable. For the level of speaker you are auditioning you need a cable that can handle that speaker to get a good handle on what it really sounds like in your own home. Do yourself a favor and borrow some cable before you return them...maybe a warm cable if the character of the speaker is bright.


frenchmon

[manlystanley]

IF I where you, I'd get some good audio cable and get rid of the monopriced cable. I had a pair and my system was very harsh and bright...I mean really made the speaker brighter than what it really was. Its the monoprice cable. For the level of speaker you are auditioning you need a cable that can handle that speaker to get a good handle on what it really sounds like in your own home. Do yourself a favor and borrow some cable before you return them...maybe a warm cable if the character of the speaker is bright.


frenchmon


Good point Frenchy,
I got a pair of BJC's on order. Should be here tonight or tomorrow.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

I've no doubt that the 683 may sound better, simply that's what I remember reading in another forum.
I don't really see the point of purchasing the 684 over the 685, only perhaps if one doesn't want a sub and wishes deeper bass extention. The 684 uses the same woofer as the 685, only it uses two.

The 684's fill a really good niche, in my opinion. This is because:

-- More bass, so for cheapskates don't need a sub-woofer.
-- Don't need stands.
-- Are very easy to drive. At the time I had a low end Denon receiver and it drove the 684's without a problem. With the 683's and above, it becomes more difficult to drive. I fact I've read lots of people who say there receivers cannot drive the 683's.
-- Finally, the 684's are really very un-transparent. This is great for lower end equipment. For instance, I heard a difference between the various mono-price cables with the 684's, but the difference was not huge. While with the magnepan and 803N's, wow what difference!! I know, this is both a plus and minus.

I've out-grown the 684's, but while I had them, they were great speakers.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

I wasnt dissing the 684's, they sound great but the 683's are much better but harder to drive as you stated.

[manlystanley]

I wasnt dissing the 684's, they sound great but the 683's are much better but harder to drive as you stated.


We are in absolute agreement!

Best Regards,
Stan

[koven]

i also think you should look away from b&w... that's where i started first, but i soon found out there are cheaper/lesser known speakers that sound just as good, if not BETTER than B&W's.... b&w's are excellent quality, but not excellent VALUE

you can find a lot of good deals on audiogon if you check frequently.. i agree with blackraven on the older thiels, those are on the warm side and sound excellent. of course, there are many other choices. but keep in mind their sensitivity, if it's fairly low, you won't be reaching full potential with a mediocre amp.

[manlystanley]

Well, the 803N's are going back on Friday. It was *REALLY* nice to have a week long home audition. Got the BJC cables. It really mellowed out the sound, but in the end it was still too bright. I'll be looking into all your suggestions and seeing what's next.

Anyways, you guys are really good. I've learned a lot in this process.

Best Regards,
Stan

[koven]

cool, what's next? :)

[frenchmon]

Well, the 803N's are going back on Friday. It was *REALLY* nice to have a week long home audition. Got the BJC cables. It really mellowed out the sound, but in the end it was still too bright. I'll be looking into all your suggestions and seeing what's next.

Anyways, you guys are really good. I've learned a lot in this process.

Best Regards,
Stan

IF they where still bright with the BJC, which in my opinion is on the warm side of things, then the character of the speaker is bright.

Let me ask you...did you find the monopriced cable made them brighter with harshness, and the BJC took away the harshness but the brightness remained?

The Monoprice made my Canton speakers harsh and overly bright. When I added the Analysis interconnects the overall sound was warm with lots of detail and clearer mids, especially in vocals, and when I added the Analysis Plus speaker wire It gave it more smoothness and bottom end punch.

frenchmon

[manlystanley]

Let me ask you...did you find the monopriced cable made them brighter with harshness, and the BJC took away the harshness but the brightness remained?
frenchmon

Hey Frenchy,
Your right on. It took away the harshness, but left the brightness. So what's next? I'd like to try out the Monitor Audio RX8's, but I've heard there are bright too. But, don't know if they are as bright as the 803N's though?

Funny, as time goes on I'm kind of loosing my taste for the dark side of things though...

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

cool, what's next? :)

I'm thinking about trying the Monitor Audio RX8's? They seem to be well thought of. In the mean time I'll hook back up my Maggie's.

Best Regards,
Stan

[Ajani]

The RX8 should be less bright than the B&Ws... They are actually supposed to be far less bright than the old RS series.... Give it a try... at least that way you'll have gained some more Hi-Fi experience (aka having fun playing around with different speakers) which is the arguably the best part of this hobby... The worst part being paying the credit card bills...

[frenchmon]

Hey Frenchy,
Your right on. It took away the harshness, but left the brightness. So what's next? I'd like to try out the Monitor Audio RX8's, but I've heard there are bright too. But, don't know if they are as bright as the 803N's though?

Funny, as time goes on I'm kind of loosing my taste for the dark side of things though...

Best Regards,
Stan

Stan. I've not heard the RX8's but I've listened to the RS6 side by side with the Paradigm Studio 60v6 and neither speaker was bright. They where not warm either. I found both speakers about the same with the 60's neutral and the RS6 fuller in the bass. Both speakers can be warmer paired with warm audio and speaker cables like BJC or even Analysis Plus. Check this dealer out for a very good price on Paradigm and Monitor Audio, but they are not authorized dealers. They buy-out stock and sell on their site. They do give a warranty .

Checkout their warranty policy here.http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/information.php?osCsid=c99022e7a0ac01bb3e6e3b90277 bdf91&info_id=12

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

stan...take a look at these http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?&products_id=10362

I do think that is a very good price. I've not heard them but check with Blackraven.

[manlystanley]

The RX8 should be less bright than the B&Ws... They are actually supposed to be far less bright than the old RS series.... Give it a try... at least that way you'll have gained some more Hi-Fi experience (aka having fun playing around with different speakers) which is the arguably the best part of this hobby... The worst part being paying the credit card bills...


Great advice about the RX8's. Also, you are so right teh bills is the worst part. Having he 803D's for a week was great--without having to pay for them.....

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

stan...take a look at these http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/product_info.php?&products_id=10362

I do think that is a very good price. I've not heard them but check with Blackraven.


Both speakers look great. I've got to figure out how to get a system down in my listening room for a several day evaluation??? We'll see what comes up.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

I havent heard those new PSB Imagine's but the reviews on them were good. The review said there was some trickle down from the Synchrony's but that they are more suited to a smaller room.

I would bet my last dollar Stan that some of the brightness problem is that Emotiva amp and possibly the Cd player. I've read many reviews on Emotiva amps on other forums where people are saying that the Emotiva's lean on the bright side of neutral. Obviously every one does not feel that way but there are too many people claiming it for me not to believe it.

I'm sure that the Emotiva's are a good amp but they probably need careful system matching.

[manlystanley]

I havent heard those new PSB Imagine's but the reviews on them were good. The review said there was some trickle down from the Synchrony's but that they are more suited to a smaller room.

I would bet my last dollar Stan that some of the brightness problem is that Emotiva amp and possibly the Cd player. I've read many reviews on Emotiva amps on other forums where people are saying that the Emotiva's lean on the bright side of neutral. Obviously every one does not feel that way but there are too many people claiming it for me not to believe it.

I'm sure that the Emotiva's are a good amp but they probably need careful system matching.

Hello BR,
Really good point. Would the Emotiva work with the PSB Imagine or the RX8?

Thanks,
Stan

[blackraven]

Here's a review on the PSB's- http://www.psbspeakers.com/reviews/Stereophile-Imagine-T-Review

I have the Monitor Audio S1 which is 2 generations back from the RXS line. I found the tweeter to be laid back and a warmer sound, but the RS and RXS series use new drives.

I think that you will get deeper bass with the MA RX8 but the PSB may offer a more refined sound. You should give the guys at www.saturdayaudio.com a call because they sell both brands of speakers and they might be able to steer you in the right direction with these 2 speaker lines. Another line of speakers to consider is Vienna Acoustics. Very nice speaker line with a good sound. I've heard some of their really high end stuff. It looks and sounds good. Best Buy Magnolia carries some of their gear.

Stan, you should consider taking home a Marantz SA8003 SACDP and/or a tube preamp for an audition to see if it warms things up. The you will know if it is your equipment that is the problem. (my bet is that that Marantz will take care of some of the problem) That way you wont be as limited in speaker choices if you decide to get new speakers.. You might even like the 1.6's.

And I hate to bring it up again but a tube buffer may be the cheapest temporary fix.

[manlystanley]

Here's a review on the PSB's- http://www.psbspeakers.com/reviews/Stereophile-Imagine-T-Review

I have the Monitor Audio S1 which is 2 generations back from the RXS line. I found the tweeter to be laid back and a warmer sound, but the RS and RXS series use new drives.

I think that you will get deeper bass with the MA RX8 but the PSB may offer a more refined sound. You should give the guys at www.saturdayaudio.com a call because they sell both brands of speakers and they might be able to steer you in the right direction with these 2 speaker lines. Another line of speakers to consider is Vienna Acoustics. Very nice speaker line with a good sound. I've heard some of their really high end stuff. It looks and sounds good. Best Buy Magnolia carries some of their gear.

Stan, you should consider taking home a Marantz SA8003 SACDP and/or a tube preamp for an audition to see if it warms things up. The you will know if it is your equipment that is the problem. (my bet is that that Marantz will take care of some of the problem) That way you wont be as limited in speaker choices if you decide to get new speakers.. You might even like the 1.6's.

And I hate to bring it up again but a tube buffer may be the cheapest temporary fix.

Hello BR,
I'll do as your suggestion and call up the Saturday Audio folks. My situation, is that I think my $80 pre-amp is failing. Every once in a while one channel gets weak. I think I've tracked it down to the pre-amp, but am not sure. So, I'm thinking that in the next year or so a newer preamp will be in the works. Then I'll think about the warmer sound.

While I think about newer speakers, I'm going to give the Maggie another try with my new BJ cables. We'll see what I think about it. As far as speakers, I kind of like the following deals, what do you think of them? I know there sold, but I'd look for something like them:

1.) I say a PSB Synchrony Two floor standing speakers that went for $1900 (MSRP $3800)

2.) http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1268243102&/Monitor-Audio-RX-8-RX-center-r

Best Regards,
Stan


BTW: My 8 year old is sitting on my lap and wants to send you a smiley face: :17:

[blackraven]

Stan, I bought 2 pairs of BJC's in the last couple of months to replace my monster cables andI found them to have more detail, slightly less bass, but tighter bass but they are a little brighter and they bring the treble forward. Hopefully in your system it will tone down the brightness.

Stan, take a look at this Vincent Hybrid Preamp- http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISA31

http://www.avguide.com/review/vincent-audio-sa-31-preamplifier-and-sp-331-power-amplifier

[RGA]

A speaker you may want to consider that is way way off the beaten track but IMO betters the PSB and Monitor Audio is from a company called Sonist. normally I don't like ribbon tweeters but this one works and is $2,195 called the Recital 3 and is a new floorstanding speaker from Sonist. What is interesting is that they are a Ribbon horn design and at a stupid low price for the sound on tap. While not perfect they're more perfect than probably anything I've heard in this price range.

And they can be run with very few watts which means that you have far far more options on your future amplifier choices. While not everyone will buy a 3 watt SET amplifier it is nice to have the option should in 5 years you decide to try one. They're partnering $700 or so Glow audio tube amps made very nice music. And their cabinetry was quite nice to boot. They've been getting terrific reviews and it's hard not to be impressed when you factor in the price. http://www.sonist.com/SONIST_REVIEWS_SHOWREPORTS.html

[manlystanley]

Stan, I bought 2 pairs of BJC's in the last couple of months to replace my monster cables andI found them to have more detail, slightly less bass, but tighter bass but they are a little brighter and they bring the treble forward. Hopefully in your system it will tone down the brightness.

Stan, take a look at this Vincent Hybrid Preamp- http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISA31

http://www.avguide.com/review/vincent-audio-sa-31-preamplifier-and-sp-331-power-amplifier


Hey BR,
Great pointer. Here's a deal I wished I had not missed: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl_sold.pl?preatube&1260927442

I'm thinking that I'll go for a more transparent speaker, then eventually get a warmer pre-amp.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

A speaker you may want to consider that is way way off the beaten track but IMO betters the PSB and Monitor Audio is from a company called Sonist. normally I don't like ribbon tweeters but this one works and is $2,195 called the Recital 3 and is a new floorstanding speaker from Sonist. What is interesting is that they are a Ribbon horn design and at a stupid low price for the sound on tap. While not perfect they're more perfect than probably anything I've heard in this price range.

And they can be run with very few watts which means that you have far far more options on your future amplifier choices. While not everyone will buy a 3 watt SET amplifier it is nice to have the option should in 5 years you decide to try one. They're partnering $700 or so Glow audio tube amps made very nice music. And their cabinetry was quite nice to boot. They've been getting terrific reviews and it's hard not to be impressed when you factor in the price. http://www.sonist.com/SONIST_REVIEWS_SHOWREPORTS.html


Interesting design. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

[manlystanley]

So, I dropped off the 803N's. Sorry to see them go, But, at $2,300 I'd need to add a lot to my system to tame the brightness. I just cannot justify that at this time. So, I'm off looking for 'speaker nirvana' again.

But, for what it's worth, what I've learned:

1.) It's of limited help to listen to a speaker at a different location and system. Once you get it home, it sound so different.

2.) I should have considered the 'brightness' of my XPA before I bought it.

3.) My system is now bass week. I needed to put the 803's 5 inch from the wall to bring out the bass. At the owners how, he had them several feet (at least) from the wall.

4.) IT was a really positive experience to bring in a $6,000 speaker and try it out on my system. It gives me a more realistic view of what a speaker can or cannot do for my system.

5.) Finally, I'll be moving on from B&W's. I loved my 684's, but if the 803's don't meet my needs, I doubt that the 700's or CM's would either.

6.) I'm going to hook up my Maggies and give them another shot. I can tell that I'm much less sensitive to brightness. So, my taste is changing.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

Stan, consider using a sub with the Maggies. The Martin Logan Abyss and Dynamo's match up well and are very musical for 2ch music. You can find them used on audiogon for a good price. I've also seen the Abyss for about $450 on closeout, thats about a discount of $450 off.

You should try using your HT sub wtih the Maggies, crossed over at about 40-50Hz to see how it sounds with a sub and see if you like them better.

[manlystanley]

Stan, consider using a sub with the Maggies. The Martin Logan Abyss and Dynamo's match up well and are very musical for 2ch music. You can find them used on audiogon for a good price. I've also seen the Abyss for about $450 on closeout, thats about a discount of $450 off.

You should try using your HT sub wtih the Maggies, crossed over at about 40-50Hz to see how it sounds with a sub and see if you like them better.

Oh how cruel life is....... I'm teleworking today and my maggies were vibrating like crazy. I was afraid that I'd damage the Mylar so I'm listening to:

-- $50 denon receiver.
-- Klisph in wall speakers.

Now that I've gotten used to them, there not all that bad. I think I'm to picky sometimes.

Before the maggies went dark, I listened to them a long time. They sounded really good. But, I think that for my family watching movies, it will be a problem. Then also the 3 inch sweet spot is problematic. I felt funny having some of family describing the great imaging I'm hearing and they have no idea what I'm taking about.

Tomorrow I'll be trying out a RX6 at a local store (They do not have RX8's). I'll try to find a local PSB selling as well.

I've read that the RS8's were way to bright as the tweeter had problems. But that the RX8 sounds very full and real nice. The problem with the PSB's is they are narrow and my younger kids are rambunctious. So, I'd be concerns about them knocking them over.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

I use my Maggies for HT use and no one complains about the small sweet spot. In fact we have chairs to the sides and a sofa in the center. I don't really notice any drop off sitting to the sides. I guess I'm too involved in the movie to notice.

You should give some Martin Logans a listen. There are always deals on used ML's.