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cannon_dt
01-16-2010, 11:35 AM
Hello all !!
I currently own the foll set up:
Marantz CD 7300
Marantz PM 7200 amp
Dyn 122s

Somehow I am not happy and I am positive it is because of the amp. I think the speakers are far too honest for the bright marantz IMHO.

Anyways I wanted to knock on the doors of you experts to check out the best match for the dyns - what in your opinion is a nice AMP for the 122s. I loved the NAD c372 with the 122s but unfortunately that amp is oop. My budget is around 700-800$. Please let me know your suggestions.

Thanks,
Ananth

blackraven
01-16-2010, 11:50 AM
I've never heard of a Marantz amp being called bright. Isnt that amp supposed to be Class A up to 25wpc? You could look into separates. Look at this Vincent hybrid preamp http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISA31

Then I would look for a used amp, like a B&K reverence 125.2

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 01:08 PM
Although I suspect you are right have you tried any other CDP's to make sure you are replacing the right piece? The Dyn's do like some current. What interconnects do you use between the CD and amp?

I drove a set of Dynaudio Audience 60's hard with Adcom separates. A gtp-450 preamp and gfa-5400 125x2 and later a gfa-5500 200x2. I chose the Adcom for it's power and full sound for a system in a workout room. You can find Adcom crazy cheap on Audiogon.com. I'd recommend the 5500 or 555, the 5500 was a better sounding amp with smoother highs. My 60's just sat and smiled at the power while kicking out a great performance. Great bass.

If the budget can stretch look at this baby:
http://www.spearitsound.com/shanling/shanling_a3000.asp

They also have some B&K 250 watt monoblocks for $1150 a pair but then you still need a preamp.

Here's an awesome solution Krell kav-300i not to be confused with S300i. I drove my Contour with this 300i before going to a 500i. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1266729531&/Krell-KAV-300i-Integrated-Ampl I just wanted to show you this amp and maybe you can see if others are around. This guy has no feedback and the 300i does not have a headphone jack so his comments about headphones threw up a big red flag.

Any way to do it right you will need some power. It could be the Marantz isn't pushing them to their potential which is causing the perception of brightness. It's going to take more than a small NAD or Cambridge. Don't give up on those speakers though they are great.

frenchmon
01-16-2010, 02:47 PM
Hello all !!
I currently own the foll set up:
Marantz CD 7300
Marantz PM 7200 amp
Dyn 122s

Somehow I am not happy and I am positive it is because of the amp. I think the speakers are far too honest for the bright marantz IMHO.

Anyways I wanted to knock on the doors of you experts to check out the best match for the dyns - what in your opinion is a nice AMP for the 122s. I loved the NAD c372 with the 122s but unfortunately that amp is oop. My budget is around 700-800$. Please let me know your suggestions.

Thanks,
Ananth

I dont know your amp to be bright at all. Just to make sure, I just checked a few reviews concerning your amp and no one discribed it as bright but warm. So it could be someting else in your audio chain. What cables are you using?

frenchmon

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 04:24 PM
Don't be offended by this, one can't tell another's level of experience until they get to know them and sometimes basic things get overlooked. Are the 122's in phase with your amp? red (+) on amp to red (+) on speaker and same with black.

It warrants some experimentation before just dismissing the 7200, however, a set of speakers with a retail around $2k, two mid/woofer driver per cabinet, only 86 dB sensitive and 6 ohms, is a pretty big job for a $500.00 amp without a high current output stage. The Dyn drivers also sport one hefty voice coil. It could be the 7200 is just out of it's class.

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 04:31 PM
I haven't read reviews that report Emotiva as "warm" but if it's a power issue they have some decent gear in your price range, you can buy a preamp and power amp in your budget and return within 30 days if not happy. www.emotiva.com

cannon_dt
01-16-2010, 09:37 PM
@blackraven
My bad - I was using warm and bright interchangeably - what I want is the straight sound of the dyns when I paired with the nad c372 - the marantz is too coloured. I hope that sums it up correctly.

@MrPreabody
I thought the CD 7300 is the part of my setup that I dont need to change. I use CHORD cables between CD and amp.
Also, I dont yet want to consider a pre/power combo or a bridged mode combination. I know they would be ideal for my DYns but if I invest in the now it would be a compromised solution (in terms of cost I mean!)
One more imp thing - I am in India and I cannot get my hands on your recommendations easily - what I mean is that I would like to demo the Krell or anything else but I dont think that is even possible being in India right?
Emotiva - India - same problem right?

Lastly - phase matches, no offence taken. In fact, I went up and checked them out before I confirmed to you - so I have no misconception of know-it-all !!!

As you said I just think the PM 7200 is operating out-of-class and I also know that the 122s are good. So I think I am doing the right thing searching for a replacement for my amp

@frenchmon
Sorry, as clarified above warmth is more likely my complaint. I use CHORD between CD and amp. As for amp to speaker - nothing noteworthy, something I got with the speakers.

Mr Peabody
01-16-2010, 10:30 PM
Cannon, what brands do you have access to? It might help to narrow suggestions. What wall outlet voltage does India have? Krell would be what you are looking for. If just not in the budget look into what Adcom may be around. Adcom isn't Krell but it doesn't cost as much and still a strong performer for the money.

Not sure on pricing in your area but you might check Arcam or Naim. Either would have smaller watt amps capable still of driving the Dyns. Primare would be another good one.

RoadRunner6
01-17-2010, 02:44 AM
Within your $800 budget are:


http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm $399

http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm $299

total: $698


Slightly over your budget are:

Same USP-1 pre-amp $399

Two of the new UPA-1 mono-block amps $598 ($299 each)

total: $997


Emotiva is a relatively new US company that designs their own components that are then manufactured in China and sold direct to the end user (no wholesalers or dealers). They are extremely high quality and high performing products at amazingly low prices.

Their products are not always in stock and the prices make it worth the wait when necessary. The new UPA-1 mono-block amp should be a huge seller that will be specified at 200 watts into 8 ohms and 300 watts into 4 ohms ($299!). They should be for sale within the month.

They are very happy to talk to potential customers over the phone. Sometimes you will be actually talking to the president or the head design engineer. You can chat on their forum. Many Dynaudio owners use Emotiva separates.

RR6 :biggrin5:

cannon_dt
01-17-2010, 03:19 AM
@Mr Peabody
Some of the brands that I have around are
meridian, nad, primare, arcam
I know primare is great but I am sure it is going to be way out of budget.
I loved NAD C372 but it is not there any more - its replacement c375 is too expensive - $1700. Way out of budget

Do let me know what brands are the best and I will hunt around

@RoadRunner6
Emotiva sounds good but how can I demo it?
Pre amp and post amp should be ideal to drive the amps but how can I buy the emotiva without being able to audition with the dyns?

RoadRunner6
01-17-2010, 03:50 AM
cannon_dt,

Emotiva has a 30 day no questions asked return policy. You do have to pay the return freight, but that is a rather small depending on where you live. Emotiva ships from their headquarters in Franklin, Tennessee.

A good idea would be to post a quick question at their forum (The Emotiva Lounge) under Emotiva Products/Amplifiers or Pro-Pre's. Be sure you list your current equipment, etc. in detail. You will most likely get lots of advice even perhaps from some with Dynaudio speakers. Be prepared for lots of complimentary feedback on the USP-1 (I should say raves, I don't own it but I do own the XPA-5 amp, ERC-1 and speakers). The amp choices for you depending on your budget would be the UPA-1 mono-blocks, the UPA-2 or the XPA-2. Since it is a dedicated forum there are lots of Emo fans but many knowledgeable and very helpful folks there.

You also could consider ordering the amp first and then the preamp later. You will be amazed at the build quality and probably the sound quality.

RR6: biggrin5:

cannon_dt
01-17-2010, 07:32 AM
@RoadRunner
I will go ahead and post there but I am still worried about the freight - shipping 10 odd kgs from US to India - I am suspecting that would be hugggggggggge

cannon_dt
01-17-2010, 07:39 AM
@RoadRunner
Where is UPA-1 - I dont see it in the products section?
Also when you mean buy the amp - which one do you refer to? I see only pre-power at Emo?

RoadRunner6
01-17-2010, 12:00 PM
@RoadRunner
Where is UPA-1 - I dont see it in the products section?
Also when you mean buy the amp - which one do you refer to? I see only pre-power at Emo?

Note that I wrote about the new UPA-1 mono-block: "They should be for sale within the month." It is brand new and not in stock quite yet. It has been discussed in the forum and should be a huge seller. The power and price is a great combination. It will not be shown on the product page until available for sale. You will have to wait for this amp, maybe a month or so. As far as being able to demo any amp with your Dyns, your own room is the only accurate place to demo with your components. A demo in a dealers showroom will not give you an accurate example of how it will sound in your room.

Emotiva sells internationally and has a special International order section.

http://emotiva.com/international_orders.shtm

In your post at the Emotiva forum I would mention that you are in India. All the amps in their current product lineup are here. http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm (see left column) Those that are in stock are on the online store page. As I mentioned, sometimes you have to wait for a shipment and the item to be in stock. That might sound like a negative until you consider the price. I bought the XPA-5 for $799 which compares very closely to a well known amp that sells for $2749.

The preamp is the USP-1:

http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm

Your choice of amps are the UPA-2, XPA-2 and UPA-1 (there is no product page yet for the UPA-1).

http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm

http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

RR6 :biggrin5:

(I presume that you understand that the Marantz 7200 is an integrated amp. An integrated amp consists of an amp (power amp) and a preamp. In the Emotiva line there are only separate amps and preamps which are almost always superior to integrated amps.)

cannon_dt
01-17-2010, 12:05 PM
Thanks RoadRunner
I already registered at their forums but I am pending activation. I also contacted them via their online form.

I would like to test at my premises too but then if I have to bear the freight to and fro in case I dont like it - that in itself can buy me a decent amp I think :(

Mr Peabody
01-17-2010, 12:22 PM
I think on a budget the Emotiva combo will be your best bet, don't count it out for freight until you get a quote from Emo. If I remember correctly, if you decide to return the gear you will get a full refund of your initial purchase which will include shipping charge, so all you pay is the shipping back. I hope shipping isn't bad, Emo will give you the most power for your money.

The Arcam will drive the Dyn's and may be your best bet for your budget if the Emo doesn't work out. Unless there is some way to buy used gear there. I talked to some one else in India before who had JoLida. They have some budget priced gear but you may find it warm as well, so may not fit what you want.

blackraven
01-17-2010, 12:30 PM
I would look at Jolida, Vincent Audio and Harman Kardon integrated amps-

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Products/Pages/ProductCompare.aspx

HK is trying to remake its name and is coming out with some nice equipment.

Mr Peabody
01-17-2010, 02:55 PM
HK would have to improve a good deal to be an improvement over the Marantz and to drive Dyn's. Back in the day when they were still doing a true high current amp it wouldn't have been a problem. It would be nice if the parent corp brought the line back up, I'd like to see it. Before they wandered off into HT their stereo receivers were excellent. Not a single problem and the power rating was so conservative they were a joke. People must have hung on to them as well, I don't see them on the used websites.

kexodusc
01-17-2010, 03:48 PM
I agree with Mr. P...the HK won't be an upgrade in sound quality over the Marantz. I would endorse any of the Adcom, Arcam or Emotiva options he's suggested. I've heard Adcom and Arcam with rather current hungry Dynaudio's in the past and they sounded pretty good.

I've also heard NAD do a fair job with them - I'm not a big fan of that sound combination personally - NAD is a decent product just not to my preference, especially with Dynaudio, but the guy I know who paired the two really liked them....might be another option for you to consider.

Mr Peabody
01-17-2010, 03:56 PM
I feel when using Dyn's you have to like the sound of the electronics because that is what the Dyn's will let you hear.

RoadRunner6
01-17-2010, 04:32 PM
Just to let you know you are not alone. This is a list of international quotes from a week in November from the president's wife Cathy. Emotiva is selling lots of products world wide. BTW, Mr. P is correct. If you don't like it you pay return freight only.


".....Today's most unusual countries, Kuwait and Guadaloupe, Netherlands Antilles ( I had to look this one up on the map). I hope both countries join the Emotiva family.

We welcome new countries of Greece and Japan, we shipped to both countries for the first time this week
.
I have also received phone calls this week from Seoul, Korea, Germany, several customers in Australia and Morten called from here in the States . During his visit, he picked up a usp-1 to take home with him, nice souvenier

I don't want to leave anyone out this week so here are most of the countries we quoted:

India
Pakistan
Israel
Greece several
italy
France several
Spain
Denmark several
Sweden
Nethlands
Germany lots of new ones!
Slovakia
Portugal
Malaysia is hot right now
South Korea several
Australia tons
Canada
Brazil
Uraguay NEW
Hong Kong
Singapore is hot too!
Dubai
Mexico
Ireland
Uk
Switzerland
and of course we always receive the most from Norway!

Cathy....."

blackraven
01-17-2010, 06:43 PM
HK would have to improve a good deal to be an improvement over the Marantz and to drive Dyn's. .


Where did you get your info- The HK 990 has plenty of power and high current too. it's able to double its power from 8 ohms to 4ohms (150wpc-300wpc) and 100peak amps. Something I doubt the Marantz can do. It takes an awfully good amp to double its power. I would not hesitate to add this integrated amp into my system. While I have not heard this amp or even seen it in the U.S., its specs on paper blow the Marantz away and it should for over double the cost.

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK%20990/230

And the smaller HK 980 rated at 80wpc at 8ohms peaks at 80amps, that's not chopped liver!

http://www.e-hifi.com.au/news/HarmanKardonHK980IntegratedStereoAmplifierInnovati onYouCanSeeandHear.aspx

Like I said before, HK is trying to regain its reputation and their new equipment looks pretty good at least on paper.

http://www.testfreaks.com/stereo-amplifiers-receivers/harman-kardon-hk-990/

cannon_dt
01-17-2010, 08:30 PM
@Mr Peabody
I am on the emotiva forum and have also filled their form - if they are serious then I guess I should get a call in the next couple of days, will keep this post updated with that.

@RoadRunner6
Thanks!

@blackraven
Is a pre-power combo not better than a integ amp? Would you still suggest the HK over Emotiva?
Honestly - I have never heard of Emotiva before I started this post. Reading them up on the internet did show they do have quite a following

blackraven
01-17-2010, 08:46 PM
Separates are the way to go but if your considering Emotiva, I would give the HK 990 a look. It comes with a phono preamp and it looks great on paper and probably has the warmer HK sound. Emotiva gives a lot of bang for the buck but it appears that the HK integrated amps do as well. I guess it boils down to what you can get an Emotiva amp shipped to you for. You will then need a preamp. I would take a look at Vincent Audio too and see if it cheaper by you since its coming out of China.

RoadRunner6
01-17-2010, 08:52 PM
The HK 990 should be good for about $3000 US.

For those bucks in the US one can get the Emo UMC-1 pre-pro and one XPA-2 power amp that has 250 watts into 8 ohms and 500 watts into 4 ohms per channel and still have $1500 left over.


http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/emotiva-xpa-2

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/emotiva-upa-2-stereo-amplifier

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/preamplifiers/689-emotiva-usp-1-stereo-preamplifier.html?start=1

Mr Peabody
01-17-2010, 09:15 PM
Is India 220v? The 990 does look pretty good. Also offers some unique features to 2 channel, built in DAC pretty cool as long as it sounds good. I never thought of HK as being warm though. Some posts back Cannon clarified that he was not looking for "warm", that was in fact what he was trying to change. If RR6 is correct that the 990 would be $3k or close it would face stiff competition, maybe that's why it's not here. It would head to head with amps like the Krell s300i. If the amp was as strong as it looks though and sound was good the added features could turn some heads. But it would have to sound and perform real well to compete with Krell.

cannon_dt
01-18-2010, 12:56 AM
@Mr Peabody
You are right - I want an honest sound - no warmth necessary. If the soundstage is as the recording intended it to be I am good. I think the Dyns are good at that. Also $3000 is waaaaaaay out of my league
I am still waiting for emotiva to get back to me.
India is 220V

blackraven
01-18-2010, 04:10 AM
You may want to take a look at the HK 980 which is cheaper. Cannon, every amp has its own unique sound, whether it be warmer, brighter or neutral. Who's to say what the live sound was like. Its all a matter of preference. I was recommending warmer amps because you like the sound of NAD. I don't know if you can get B&K but they would be another reasonably priced amp. Look for the B&K reference 125.2.

cannon_dt
01-18-2010, 04:51 AM
@blackraven
Given a choice I would like to try out all your suggestions but out here I dont even know if they can be got and then I got to negotiate a deal with the distr for a demo with my Dyns.

Mr Peabody
01-18-2010, 07:10 AM
Blackraven did you just assume HK is trying to make a come back by discovering the 990, or did you read something? From being involved in the Lexicon thread and talking from those in the business Harmon is not in good financial condition and no longer servicing products that "are not very old". That's open to interpretation but the guy was telling me Levinson owners were being referred to a couple service shops and if they couldn't fix the piece it became an expensive door stop. I personally wouldn't buy HK, Revel or anything else under that umbrella at this point.

blackraven
01-18-2010, 04:04 PM
I read an article in a magazine last year or earlier in the year that HK was trying to make a come back and improve its products and advertising. It may have been in News Week or something similar. It did not go into detail.

Mr Peabody
01-18-2010, 07:00 PM
I don't know how Harmon is structured but I would like to see HK and Infinity survive and get back the rep they used to have. I'm partial to them as I've had a lot of experience with them back in the 80's/90's.

cannon_dt
01-21-2010, 09:51 AM
Room dynamics, any suggestions on how to improve?

Mr Peabody
01-21-2010, 06:59 PM
What do you mean by room dynamics? Does the room sound dead?

cannon_dt
01-21-2010, 07:15 PM
@Mr Peabody
I just gave a shot of the room for anyone to give me any suggestions for changing the room's contribution towards the sound, thats all

Mr Peabody
01-21-2010, 08:44 PM
Oh....

Not ignoring your request, I don't see well enough to critique from the pics.